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Muller wanted to be head coach of the Hamilton Bulldogs

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Old
04-07-2012, 12:12 AM
  #101
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Arguing over whether RC is better than JM is like arguing over which foot fungus you want to be stuck with... neither please.


so true, and yet, so sad...

Martin needs to spend some time with Hitchcock this summer, could learn a thing or two about adapting and being willing to see past "how I've always done it".

I still think Martin was excellent in the technical aspects of game planning & organizing his team, but his managing of the players (as people), and his in-game adaptability, where amazingly poor for someone who has coached as long as he has.

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04-07-2012, 12:23 AM
  #102
Agnostic
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People are wasting their time. There isn't a coach, living or dead that could take the current team to the playoffs.

But the people that "know" more than a coach with 1300 games of NHL experience are very amusing.

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04-07-2012, 12:47 AM
  #103
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It's tough. I like Kirk. I think this whole fiasco of a season is caused by a few things.
1. Really bad management of assets by management. I'm by happy that Gauthier is gone. A few bad trades.
2. Certain players not living up to expectations. Where did the goal scoring cammy go? I saw a lazy weak forward put there.
3. The biggest issue I have with Martin was not the defensive style, but using the wrong player at the wrong time. At least under RC, we saw cole, patches, yemelin, and subban play really well. No darche on the pp
4. We were missing Cammy, Markov, gomez, and 1 winger (for Pleks)

That's it. One more top 6 forward and we will be fine. There haven't been as many oh **** why are these players on the ice moments under RC. His player management is not that bad. Moral is just down right now. We get a decent pick.
We will be in the playoffs next year. As long as Cole and DD have great years again.

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04-07-2012, 08:30 AM
  #104
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Muller was furious when the Habs promoted the bulldogs staff.
He wanted to stay in the organization and thats true and he loathes the Goat.

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04-07-2012, 10:19 AM
  #105
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Shocker that Gauthier let Muller go and the guy that held the D together while Markov was injured.

I wonder if Gauthier will get another GM job after the circus he ran this past year. So inept at identifying the needs of this team after he'd been in the organization for how long?

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04-08-2012, 02:13 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by The n00b King View Post
If you think about it, it's now TWICE that Muller has been pushed aside by the Habs.

The guy got his heart broken twice and still wants to come back.

The guy definitely bleeds the bleu blanc rouge....

Hopefully they bring him back someday. Right now is probably not the right time as the org. is such a mess. I wouldn't wish this mess on my worst enemy. It's great for him to learn his trade somewhere else and then come here as a experienced coach.

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04-08-2012, 09:12 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
People are wasting their time. There isn't a coach, living or dead that could take the current team to the playoffs.

But the people that "know" more than a coach with 1300 games of NHL experience are very amusing.
Which coach would you go for? Mike Keenan or Dan Bylsma? Would you have gone for Ken Hitchcock BEFORE he joined the Blues? Hey Darryl Sutter has a bunch of games as head coach...would you go for him or Kirk Muller or DeBoer. For every Trotz, Ruff and Babcock, there are also examples of experienced coaches that wouldn't do a better jobs than some "unexperienced" ones.

As experienced as you can be, sometimes, you just can't follow the pace anymore. Not saying it was entirely the case for Martin, yet, having 1300 games of experience did not show every single night. And at one point, this coach, was no longer a coach before Gainey went and get him. Where would he be without Gainey? Would he have found a job elsewhere?

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04-08-2012, 10:52 AM
  #108
Andy
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Which coach would you go for? Mike Keenan or Dan Bylsma? Would you have gone for Ken Hitchcock BEFORE he joined the Blues? Hey Darryl Sutter has a bunch of games as head coach...would you go for him or Kirk Muller or DeBoer. For every Trotz, Ruff and Babcock, there are also examples of experienced coaches that wouldn't do a better jobs than some "unexperienced" ones.

As experienced as you can be, sometimes, you just can't follow the pace anymore. Not saying it was entirely the case for Martin, yet, having 1300 games of experience did not show every single night. And at one point, this coach, was no longer a coach before Gainey went and get him. Where would he be without Gainey? Would he have found a job elsewhere?
Wasn't Martin the Coach and GM of the Panthers two years before taking the job with the habs?

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04-08-2012, 12:22 PM
  #109
Whitesnake
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Wasn't Martin the Coach and GM of the Panthers two years before taking the job with the habs?
Yes. But my point was that we went after a GM anyway. Yep, the decision came from upstairs but did we hire a guy that was not good enough to be a coach anymore? Who was seen to be a better GM at that point?

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04-08-2012, 12:42 PM
  #110
Andy
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yes. But my point was that we went after a GM anyway. Yep, the decision came from upstairs but did we hire a guy that was not good enough to be a coach anymore? Who was seen to be a better GM at that point?
Who said he wasn't good enough to be a coach anymore? Martin was a year removed from coaching before the habs hired him as coach.

Wasn't Tortorella out of a job for like 2 years at one point? Was he not good enough to be a coach anymore either? Same goes for Hitchcock.

Martin's style was boring yes. It was also a style I did not prefer, but with the right players that fit his system, Martin is a good coach and proved it during his time here with the team's constant injuries to key players.

Also the habs didn't have much choice with the french requirement when they decided they need a coach. Again we see the limiting factor of a non-hockey requirement. After a series of rookie coaches, the habs decided to go with someone with experience. However, that experience requirement coupled with the french requirement limited the pool even further. How many more bilingual coaches with experience could the Canadiens have hired instead of Martin? And how many of those were better than him by a significant amount?

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04-08-2012, 03:39 PM
  #111
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Who said he wasn't good enough to be a coach anymore? Martin was a year removed from coaching before the habs hired him as coach.

Wasn't Tortorella out of a job for like 2 years at one point? Was he not good enough to be a coach anymore either? Same goes for Hitchcock.

Martin's style was boring yes. It was also a style I did not prefer, but with the right players that fit his system, Martin is a good coach and proved it during his time here with the team's constant injuries to key players.

Also the habs didn't have much choice with the french requirement when they decided they need a coach. Again we see the limiting factor of a non-hockey requirement. After a series of rookie coaches, the habs decided to go with someone with experience. However, that experience requirement coupled with the french requirement limited the pool even further. How many more bilingual coaches with experience could the Canadiens have hired instead of Martin? And how many of those were better than him by a significant amount?
he was a good candidate at the time, and in many ways he obviously is a good coach... but ultimately he lost his job & deservingly so.

too many problems dealing with young players (which, in a cap world, is even more of a problem than ever before), too poor of a job at making in game adjustments, and from the sound bites and player reactions both during/after working with him (which must be taken with a grain of salt to be sure), not equipped to communicate with the athletes in the way that is basically necessary these days...

Martin failed to progress with the times in his approach to dealing with athletes, and for all his other strengths as a coach, that weakness is, imo, far too glaring to be excused.

interesting to see if he gets another NHL HC job, but unless he actually learns from this failure and, like Hitchcock, spends some serious time working at adapting to the modern athlete, I suspect his effectiveness will be similar, if not worse, to what we saw.

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Old
04-08-2012, 08:19 PM
  #112
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Habs made a mistake not retaining this guy. Captain Kirk is one of my all-time favorite habs and I would have loved to see him with the 'Dogs last year and again this year. He would have been a great choice to then takeover in Montreal. While not fully bilingual he does have a little French and I am sure he would have learned more to be coach of the Habs.

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