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Hank WILL win the Vezina

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Old
04-08-2012, 10:04 AM
  #26
M0rbid
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I don't know what to think but I believe he blew his chance yesterday.

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04-08-2012, 10:06 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Quick , Eliot , Rinne Lundqvist 4th
No.

Lundqvist or Quick will win it.

The hope is that the numbers didn't get too close because of last night.

If karma has its way Lundqvist will win it, after being screwed in years prior.

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04-08-2012, 10:13 AM
  #28
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Hank plays in a division where 4 out of the 5 teams made the playoffs all with 100+ points. The 4th place team in the Atlantic (NJ) had more points than the 1st place team in the Pacific (PHX). It would be ridiculous to give it to Quick when he has nearly identical stats as Hank and Hank plays in the best division (or 2nd best if you think the Central is better) in hockey.

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04-08-2012, 10:16 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
Hank plays in a division where 4 out of the 5 teams made the playoffs all with 100+ points. The 4th place team in the Atlantic (NJ) had more points than the 1st place team in the Pacific (PHX). It would be ridiculous to give it to Quick.
Th league itself is ridiculous. So I expect Quick to win it.

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04-08-2012, 10:17 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I find it amusing when people proclaim that others have zero knowledge, and in the process fail to recognize the way the world works.
I'm not going to respond to that for many reasons. Many.
Quote:
No body is bashing Lundqvist.
Do you even read what you write yourself, as a start? "He should take a good look in the mirror"? It's pretty much black & white there.
Quote:
He didn't show up last night.
According to you and others with practically zero understanding of the position. Yeah, I said it again. The team didn't show up, where Richards has even been quoted that they perhaps looked forward to the actual playoffs a little bit too much. Then some people can argue how much they want that we "outplayed them" by creating almost nothing offensively and failing on defensive tasks all night, where they made Lundqvist's job a living hell instead of helping him out. If they can't help out, they could at least have the courtesy of staying the hell away from the shooting lane. Which they won't, which is why trying to block each and every shot is a double edged sword that will perhaps help the team allowing less goals, but will certainly not help the goaltender to pad his saving percentage, as those shots that get through are much more dangerous than they would've been.

Did he have a good game? Of course not, the team lost. Is he happy? Obviously not. Can he be solely blamed for the loss? The hell not. Were the 4 goals softies? The hell not, only if you choose to ignore vital factors, which you and some others fail to comprehend constantly. The concept of lacking X-ray vision and the concept of deflections does seem to be rocket science in here.

That he then only faced 17 shots total has nothing to do with it. Would it feel any better if the Caps threw 20 more low perimeter shots on net to pad his stats, like we did with Holtby?

What do you think would've happened if we switched goalies with the Caps before the game? Most probably a shutout for Hank, Holtby would've allowed 4+ goals. The "goalie x outplayed goalie y" is a senseless argument, because there is very little comparison that can be made.
Quote:
... Lundqvist has consistently been arguably the best goaltender in the league since he arrived in the NHL in 2005.

And every year he's been edged out of the Vezina win.
Which will most probably be a factor in Lundqvist's favour this time.

Quote:
LA is 29th in goals for. That'll have more weight than how tough the Atlantic is. Hopefully the fact the Rangers finished #2 in the NHL will be what wins Lundqvist the Vezina.
Does it? Quick isn't a goal scorer, he faces goal scorers. While it attributes to how many wins the team has, he doesn't have to face Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Tavares, Kovalchuk and Neal - for example - six times each season. The most lethal offenses in the entire league, in a division with four 100 pt teams. Pretty much all offensive stars play in the east - and in the atlantic.

29th in goals for also speaks of a highly defensive system. Playing for a bad scoring team hasn't helped Hank (who then also had a worse defense than Quick had) and it won't help Quick. That Hank is "a winner" will be a factor, as it has been before.

Overall, they're pretty much even, which is why Lundqvist will probably win it on intangibles. I won't be upset if Quick wins it, because he would deserve it, but it would be a travesty that Hank wouldn't have won the Vezina yet, despite being the best goalie for a couple of years now.


Last edited by Chimp: 04-08-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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Old
04-08-2012, 10:22 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M0rbid View Post
I don't know what to think but I believe he blew his chance yesterday.
Quick gave up 3 and lost also. He's given up 8 over his last 2

Hank still leads in Sv% and has 4 more wins, in addition to playing in a much better Division. I think he'll win it. If Quick had won the last two games it would have been his

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Old
04-08-2012, 10:23 AM
  #32
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How many teams in Quick's division are as good as Pittsburgh? How many are as good as Philly? How many are as good as the Devils?

Lundqvist has similar numbers against better competition, he should win it. Whether the voters are smart enough to realize it is the question.

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Old
04-08-2012, 10:26 AM
  #33
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Really? He ****s up ONE game, ONE out of 82, and he blows his chances?? He had an off day, ok, he is human too. So based on people's arguments, had Biron played instead of Hank, Hank would be a lock for the Vezina?

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04-08-2012, 10:27 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
How many teams in Quick's division are as good as Pittsburgh? How many are as good as Philly? How many are as good as the Devils?

Lundqvist has similar numbers against better competition, he should win it. Whether the voters are smart enough to realize it is the question.
I hope NA bias won't come into play.

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04-08-2012, 10:38 AM
  #35
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The two factors outside stats that will probably weigh the most are

a.) Without Quick the Kings are fighting for a top-5 draft pick.

and

b.) The Atlantic division is arguably the strongest division in the NHL.

Without Henrik, the Rangers still make the playoffs this year, probably 6-8 seed. The defense was that good at points this year.

Quick plays in arguably the weakest division in the NHL.

The numbers are close enough, but honestly I think without being completely analytical about them, they favor Quick only slightly.

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04-08-2012, 10:39 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Henrik blew his Vezina last night.

Had he shown up he wins it hands down.

He allowed 4 goals. And allowed his numbers to rise too much.

Quick more games played, practically identical numbers.

Quick is going to get it. If he doesn't, something went wrong with the voting.
I'm shocked that Hank's numbers are as good as they are. I was sure his save % would dip below .930. Anyway, Hank blew the PT last night. The lasting impression of him will be of him giving up 2 goals on 2 shots, 3 on 7, and 4 on 17 (total) with the Presidents' trophy on the line. Quick for his part. Gave up 3 on 23 shots and blew a 3rd period 2 goal lead and his team fell to 8th from 7th. So it's not like he had a great outing. That said, Hank couldn't have choked much more than he did. I do think the shutouts are a silly way to compare. So that means that instead of allowing 1 he allowed 0 in some game, but instead of allowing 4 he allowed 5 in other games. Why is that more desirable? Also, give me a break with all of the wins he had because of him. Hank would have had the same amount of wins with the same numbers. I'm utterly pissed at Hank but with the numbers what they are this is a coin flip. The 2 arguments used are ridiculous. Hank led the league in shutouts last year btw, he didn't even get nominated for a Vezina, much less win it.

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04-08-2012, 10:45 AM
  #37
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I think that Henrik's recent below his usual standards play coupled with the fact that the offensively challenged Kings made the playoffs will result in Jonathan Quick winning the Vezina. No other GM's like the Rangers. Quick is also an excellent goalie.

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04-08-2012, 10:47 AM
  #38
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[QUOTE=SupersonicMonkey;47549249]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bickel41 View Post

Yes there would have been a difference...it's called his stats.

Allow four goals on 17 shots and your GAA goes up and SV% goes down.

Quick finished with more games played, more shutouts, and because of Lundqvist's no show last night, Quick's GAA is better than Lundqvist's. And his SV% is .01 off.

Ludicrous? Only if you don't know what's going on. A little research.

Henrik blew it last night. Blew the the President's Trophy and blew the Vezina.

If Quick doesn't win it, then the voting was biased toward the player with seniority. Because Quick has the better numbers.

Only category Henrik beat Quick in was wins, and its not by much.

Henrik is my favorite player, and its blatantly obvious he lost the right to win the Vezina last night.

The RIGHT thing to do is to award the goaltender that earned it by putting up the best numbers.
Let's not go crazy here, Quick's GAA is .02 better than Hank's. If you want to take away from Hank's Save % being only .01% better. Their stats are virtually identical. Quick doesn't have better stats except for shutouts. Why is a goalie better just because he gives up 0 and 5, rather than 1 and 4? I think wins are also a silly way of looking at things.

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04-08-2012, 10:48 AM
  #39
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Personally, I think Quick blew it the last two games by losing twice to the Sharks and surrendering 8 goals.

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04-08-2012, 10:54 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I find it amusing when people proclaim that others have zero knowledge, and in the process fail to recognize the way the world works.

No body is bashing Lundqvist.

He didn't show up last night.

Henrik has been in this position before.

"Best division"
"Less support"
"Has more long term merit"

And it hadn't stopped the voters from going with the one year hit.

Lundqvist has consistently been arguably the best goaltender in the league since he arrived in the NHL in 2005.

And every year he's been edged out of the Vezina win.

LA is 29th in goals for. That'll have more weight than how tough the Atlantic is.

Hopefully the fact the Rangers finished #2 in the NHL will be what wins Lundqvist the Vezina.
It's hilarious, you just said that "less support" didn't help Hank and in the same breath you claim that Quick has had less support. What does Quick's offensive support have to do with his game? That's almost as rich as saying that his stats are so much worse and bring up GAA which is .02 better as evidence and then poo poo his better save % that's .01% better. You seem to be contracting yourself and awful lot.

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04-08-2012, 10:56 AM
  #41
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In almost every season before this one, we would have been a lottery team without Henrik. This is not something that the GMs emphasized in voting in past years, otherwise Hank would have finished higher than 4th in Vezina voting last year and in all likelihood would have garnered more votes than Luongo. So I fail to see why Quick would be afforded the benefit of the doubt by GMs when Lundqvist wasn't in seasons past. Besides, the fact that the Kings would be a lottery team without Quick is more of an argument for why he should win the Hart and rather than the Vezina.

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04-08-2012, 10:56 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Quick , Eliot , Rinne Lundqvist 4th
Especially the Rinne part. Rinne's GAA for the majority of the season has been worse than the worst GAA Lundqvist ever had. He had a few good games to end the year, but still probably gives up almost half a goal more than Lundqvist with a worse save %. Nice troll attempt.

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04-08-2012, 10:58 AM
  #43
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I don't think Lundquist is an automatic for Venzia either.
Had he put up 40 wins I would say yes. Now I think it's a toss up.
Wach the leauge give ot to Brodeur, simply because he is Martin Brodeur & had another 30 win season.

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04-08-2012, 11:09 AM
  #44
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If Lundqvist "blew" his Vezina chance last night, Quick blew his on December 17th, 2011.

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04-08-2012, 11:16 AM
  #45
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According to the thinking that Lundqvist blew the Vezina in one game last night Biron should have played so Lundqvist would have the Vezina. All players have bad games whether it be in the begginning middle or end of the year. Henrik is the better goalie!

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04-08-2012, 11:23 AM
  #46
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In the grand scheme of things I really couldn't care less if Hank wins the Vezina.

It's meaningless compared to the Stanley Cup. Is it a nice side accomplishment for his career? Sure but at the rates he's going he's already on pace for being a lock for the rafters and he's working his way up into the hall of fame.

It'd be a nice recognition award for saying "hey look Lundqvist had a great year," but to me I really don't care. I'm going for the big prize.

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04-08-2012, 11:29 AM
  #47
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If the NHL has taught me anything this year, Marc-Andre Fleury will win it.

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04-08-2012, 11:30 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
In the grand scheme of things I really couldn't care less if Hank wins the Vezina.

It's meaningless compared to the Stanley Cup. Is it a nice side accomplishment for his career? Sure but at the rates he's going he's already on pace for being a lock for the rafters and he's working his way up into the hall of fame.

It'd be a nice recognition award for saying "hey look Lundqvist had a great year," but to me I really don't care. I'm going for the big prize.
The problem is the chances of any given team, especially one with such a struggling offense win the cup are slim. So getting the PT and Vezina are nice accomplishments to remember the season by. I don't buy into the fact that only 2 teams are winners, the ones with the cup and the #1 overall pick. Otherwise most fans would be wasting months of their lives for 99% of years of their lives.

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04-08-2012, 11:36 AM
  #49
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[QUOTE=SupersonicMonkey;47549249]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bickel41 View Post

Yes there would have been a difference...it's called his stats.

Allow four goals on 17 shots and your GAA goes up and SV% goes down.

Quick finished with more games played, more shutouts, and because of Lundqvist's no show last night, Quick's GAA is better than Lundqvist's. And his SV% is .01 off.

Ludicrous? Only if you don't know what's going on. A little research.

Henrik blew it last night. Blew the the President's Trophy and blew the Vezina.

If Quick doesn't win it, then the voting was biased toward the player with seniority. Because Quick has the better numbers.

Only category Henrik beat Quick in was wins, and its not by much.

Henrik is my favorite player, and its blatantly obvious he lost the right to win the Vezina last night.

The RIGHT thing to do is to award the goaltender that earned it by putting up the best numbers.
Great post. I do agree, however, I just get the sense Hank is going to win the Vezina on seniority and playing in NYC. Not fair to Quick as Quick had the slightly better season but this is Hank's to win this year.

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Old
04-08-2012, 11:43 AM
  #50
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Crosby is 1 for 1 in blocked shot attempts this year, which means his Save % is 1.00. He will win the Vezina.

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