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Old
04-08-2012, 08:25 AM
  #226
Beerfish
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Originally Posted by poetryingasoline View Post
I wish this board would knock it off.

Yeah this game sucked, the reffing sucked and the coaching sucks. But have some f***ing patience. I would sooner delay gratification for another season or two and then dominate for 4+ years then a flash in the pan for two.

A rebuild is not an overnight thing
So what is your defintion of success and what is your defintion of good results for a rebuild. You just said a year or two, thus you expect this team to be a lotto team for the next two years and then like a rainbow unicorn vault into dominance for 4 plus years? You may be in for a rude surprise.

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04-08-2012, 08:28 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by SilverHaireDevil View Post
Hey Angelus, Ralph Klein instituted that exact policy back in the 90's

Every professional hockey player that plays in Alberta pays income tax here, not just the guys on the home teams (Flames and Oilers)

Those tax dollars go into general revenue to fund things like education and healthcare.

And those Millionaires you refer too bring huge amounts of economic activity to this city, and FYI they are far from the only people who use the facility that is already in place that is run by a non profit organization (which just so happens to be propped up by taxpayers)

Teflon Shawn Paid 650,000 in provincial income tax last year, how much did you pay?

lets have some fun with math shall we?

60 million dollar player payroll 10% provincial income tax, 6 million a year from the team 35 years of Oilers hockey heading into the future 6 times 35 is 210 million dollars paid in tax to the province just by the players on our team assuming the cap doesnt go up in the next 35 years, looks like those millionaires are actually packing their own freight on this deal.
How many players stay in edmonton when their careers are done here? Almost exclusively they take their money elsewhere. NHL players are a drain not an asset. There is far more local money going to them that leaves the city than otherwise.

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04-08-2012, 08:55 AM
  #228
Up the Irons
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
How many players stay in edmonton when their careers are done here? Almost exclusively they take their money elsewhere. NHL players are a drain not an asset. There is far more local money going to them that leaves the city than otherwise.
so, we should tell Katz to take his team and hit the road? if you want NHL hockey, then the city needs a new building. we can argue over the amount that we, the city, should contribute towards making it happen, but zero is not an option. 100 mil is fair in my mind.. 200 mil is probably the max for me. I respect those who feel 200 mil is too much, but a sports fan and a citizen that wants to promote Edmonton who thinks we should contribute nothing towards a new arena is a fool.

the season just ended and we are all sad.. think about that one a bit. if the Oil were in the playoffs right now, we would be happier and excited about the next 2 weeks. the next 2 weeks would be more fun then they now will be. the last month would have been more fun than it was.

there is an intrinsic value to having NHL hockey in our city. it is worth it for us to contribute in keeping it here.

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Old
04-08-2012, 09:15 AM
  #229
Beerfish
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
so, we should tell Katz to take his team and hit the road? if you want NHL hockey, then the city needs a new building. we can argue over the amount that we, the city, should contribute towards making it happen, but zero is not an option. 100 mil is fair in my mind.. 200 mil is probably the max for me. I respect those who feel 200 mil is too much, but a sports fan and a citizen that wants to promote Edmonton who thinks we should contribute nothing towards a new arena is a fool.

the season just ended and we are all sad.. think about that one a bit. if the Oil were in the playoffs right now, we would be happier and excited about the next 2 weeks. the next 2 weeks would be more fun then they now will be. the last month would have been more fun than it was.

there is an intrinsic value to having NHL hockey in our city. it is worth it for us to contribute in keeping it here.
The city needs to build the building? I wonder where this thought that private for profit business should be subsidized on their captial porjects comes from?

So much for the initial happiness around here that we had a rich as can be owner that would spend to the cap and build a new arena.

Hey the deal is done and it is going to get built and there will be some benefits for some people there is no question at all about that. But for the supporters that want to Buffalo everyone by saying it is a good deal for every citizen of this town, that's pur baloney. In any case this discussion is better suited to the arena thread than this one.

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Old
04-08-2012, 09:27 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
How many players stay in edmonton when their careers are done here? Almost exclusively they take their money elsewhere. NHL players are a drain not an asset. There is far more local money going to them that leaves the city than otherwise.
Then move to Saskatoon and advocate against hockey. Quebec City and Winnipeg are cities that wish they never lost their team and now years after the fact have made major concessions to get them back. Don't kid yourself the economic spinoff from NHL hockey being here is bigger than you think.

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Old
04-08-2012, 09:52 AM
  #231
Up the Irons
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
The city needs to build the building? I wonder where this thought that private for profit business should be subsidized on their captial porjects comes from?

So much for the initial happiness around here that we had a rich as can be owner that would spend to the cap and build a new arena.

Hey the deal is done and it is going to get built and there will be some benefits for some people there is no question at all about that. But for the supporters that want to Buffalo everyone by saying it is a good deal for every citizen of this town, that's pur baloney. In any case this discussion is better suited to the arena thread than this one.
it came when businesses realized that that their mega-projects benefit more businesses/people than just theirs, and, ergo, were able to leverage monies from the public. it has been going on since the creation of capitalism and taxes. a mason could go to a king and say: 'We will build this bridge that will open access to all this land; it will benefit you and your subjects. We will benefit too because we own the land on the other side. but we will not do it unless you give us access to your quarry for free, and you provide the horses to haul the rock.' its as old as dirt.

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Old
04-08-2012, 09:57 AM
  #232
Hockey Nightmare
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The city subsidized the entire South Edmonton Common when it built that overpass.

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Old
04-08-2012, 10:45 AM
  #233
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Claptrap, actually. Not very astute if he thinks ANY team would go with 4 centers under the age of 23...with just one veteran in Horcoff. That's a regression. I fully expect Belanger to have a bounce back year next season and have an increased role. He didn't go from a premier two-way forward on good teams to a 4th line center on the second worst team at the snap of a finger. Both a product of an off-year and chronic misuse.
Very much a product of not having guys like Shane Doan around actually. The Oilers don't have one veteran player in the lineup that will look at a guy thats underperforming, and consistently letting the team down, and get in his face all day every day and make sure he's there and performing. We have a captain, who needs that kind of shakedown himself.

Theres only so much coaches can do. The determination to W and calling out noncontributing performances comes from within on a club with a competive spirit.

Everything wrong with this club is encapsulated with the Whitney comment after the Anaheim breakaway winner in OT. "Unfortunately it was a lucky bounce"

Unfortunately we have a collection of hacks that at this tenure in their careers should be leaders but offer nothing of the sort.

Thats not just on Belanger, thats team culture.

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04-08-2012, 10:51 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Ebs View Post
Rangers got rid of Renney, now look at them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
How many players stay in edmonton when their careers are done here? Almost exclusively they take their money elsewhere. NHL players are a drain not an asset. There is far more local money going to them that leaves the city than otherwise.
You got your new shiney fav team picked out yet Beerfish?

Yeah I thought so.

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Old
04-08-2012, 10:52 AM
  #235
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Look on the bright side, there's always a chance of a full year lockout, and then we don't have to see this **** next year.

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Old
04-08-2012, 10:56 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by subnet View Post
Hopefully him and Belanger and a few other scrubs.
I would give Belanger a mulligan for this season. He is the perfect support player on a good team. May as well keep him a a future piece and a role player. I like alot of what he did this year, his offence was a 1 off I think.

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Old
04-08-2012, 11:15 AM
  #237
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Lines I would like to see next season:
Paajarvi/RNH/Eberle
Hall/Grigorenko/Hemsky
Harti/Lander/ effective fwd
Ef/Ef/Ef

Smid/Petry
Effective dman/Whitney
Effective dman/Schultz

Dubnyk
Effective Goalie

What the actual lines will be:

Smyth/Horcoff/Hemsky
Hall/RNH/Eberle
Jones/Belanger/Eager
PRV/Lander/Hordichuk
*Grigorenko won't make the team because he can't win faceoffs and miss the net like Horcoff and Belanger can*
*Gagner traded for a draft pick instead of an NHL ready dman*

Smid/Petry
Whitney/Schultz
Barker/Peckham
Potter

Khabibulin
Dubnyk

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Old
04-08-2012, 12:53 PM
  #238
Bring Back Bucky
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It amazes me how painful it is for so many to be Oiler fans. There's 29 other teams out there, so if it hurts os bad, why not get the **** off the bus??

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04-08-2012, 01:00 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Very much a product of not having guys like Shane Doan around actually. The Oilers don't have one veteran player in the lineup that will look at a guy thats underperforming, and consistently letting the team down, and get in his face all day every day and make sure he's there and performing. We have a captain, who needs that kind of shakedown himself.

Theres only so much coaches can do. The determination to W and calling out noncontributing performances comes from within on a club with a competive spirit.

Everything wrong with this club is encapsulated with the Whitney comment after the Anaheim breakaway winner in OT. "Unfortunately it was a lucky bounce"

Unfortunately we have a collection of hacks that at this tenure in their careers should be leaders but offer nothing of the sort.

Thats not just on Belanger, thats team culture.
I'm in full agreement here, that leadership the team was alleged to be getting, was not in evidence for most of this year. Those vets have been coasting literally half the bloody season while the kids have had to make up for it. There are hard working people all over the place who work their ***** off at lousy, low wage jobs all 365 days of the year, yet this is the effort multimillionaire athletes put in on the final game of the year? They can't even muster enough professional pride to put in an honest effort for ONE game?

Why even bother.

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Old
04-08-2012, 01:01 PM
  #240
HopelessOilFan
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky View Post
It amazes me how painful it is for so many to be Oiler fans. There's 29 other teams out there, so if it hurts os bad, why not get the **** off the bus??
There's more to being a fan than saying "oh well I'm just gonna cheer for these guys now instead"

There's emotional investment, especially when your talking about hf.

Honestly, if you're capable of switching the team you invest the entire season and a large majority of the offseason reading about and watching, or being completely content with said team being run into the ground then congrats, but as far as I'm concerned, that's not a real fan at all.

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04-08-2012, 01:05 PM
  #241
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If the Oilers keep Whitney, Peckham, Barker and Sutton, then they are not serious about contending for the playoffs next year. These are the weakest d-men and should be replaced by better if possible.

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Old
04-08-2012, 01:11 PM
  #242
Silver
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky View Post
It amazes me how painful it is for so many to be Oiler fans. There's 29 other teams out there, so if it hurts os bad, why not get the **** off the bus??
If you're not royally pissed off at this point, I'd suggest (and I don't do this very often, at all) that you're not really a fan of the team. Or you're a masochist. Or a you've been a longtime Detroit Lions fan, but I guess that's redundant.

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Old
04-08-2012, 02:44 PM
  #243
Tad Mikowsky
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Originally Posted by Silver View Post
If you're not royally pissed off at this point, I'd suggest (and I don't do this very often, at all) that you're not really a fan of the team. Or you're a masochist. Or a you've been a longtime Detroit Lions fan, but I guess that's redundant.
But *****ing and complaining means that you are a "fan"?

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04-08-2012, 02:58 PM
  #244
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This conversation reminds me of the sex education scene from the meaning of life, where John Cleese asks the class how they would get a woman ready for intercourse.

Those Millionaires (of which many are jealous of their wealth) contribute more money in a year in taxes than many posters here will pay in their entire life, never ever coming anywhere close to using up or enjoying the services they have funded, while the rest who pay very little in relation to what they receive cry about the rich and how greedy they are.

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Old
04-08-2012, 03:00 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
If the Oilers keep Whitney, Peckham, Barker and Sutton, then they are not serious about contending for the playoffs next year. These are the weakest d-men and should be replaced by better if possible.
Well, the Oilers have already re-signed Sutton, and Whitney's on the books for another season. Peckham and Barker are the goners, I'd guess, so the glass is half-full.

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Old
04-08-2012, 03:05 PM
  #246
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Well, the Oilers have already re-signed Sutton, and Whitney's on the books for another season. Peckham and Barker are the goners, I'd guess, so the glass is half-full.
Besides, there is no reason to believe that Whitney can't have a bounce back season. A full season of rehab on his ankle and a hunger for improvement may be the recipe for redemption.

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Old
04-08-2012, 03:25 PM
  #247
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F-ing Whitney man, if he didn't hit the skids after his injury this team would look a lot more promising. I am less pessimistic about this team turning the corner and think it is only one year away, but get ready for another disappointing season next year.

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Old
04-08-2012, 03:26 PM
  #248
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Let's acquire Brendan Morrow in the offseason, draft Grigorenko, and give both Hart and Paajarvi chances on the top lines.

Wingers: Hart, Paajarvi, Eberle, Hall, Morrow, Hemsky, Jones, Eager, Petrell

Centres: RNH, Grigorenko, Horcoff, Lander

Get rid of: Belanger, Smyth

Morrow-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Grigorenko-Hemsky
Hart-Horcoff-Paajarvi
Eager-Lander-Petrell
Jones

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Old
04-08-2012, 03:39 PM
  #249
The Bored Man
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Originally Posted by Nugie Boy View Post
Lines I would like to see next season:
Paajarvi/RNH/Eberle
Hall/Grigorenko/Hemsky
Harti/Lander/ effective fwd
Ef/Ef/Ef

Smid/Petry
Effective dman/Whitney
Effective dman/Schultz
That centre depth is a ticket to another lottery finish. Two sophomores and a rookie? The western conference is salivating at that. MPS pencilled in on the top line after the season he had? Hartikainen in the top-nine? He's been promising but should hardly be gifted a spot like that. Petry, as good as he's been, isn't a top pairing defenceman on a decent team.

Those effective players had better be damn good.

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Old
04-08-2012, 04:38 PM
  #250
Bring Back Bucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessOilFan View Post
There's more to being a fan than saying "oh well I'm just gonna cheer for these guys now instead"

There's emotional investment, especially when your talking about hf.

Honestly, if you're capable of switching the team you invest the entire season and a large majority of the offseason reading about and watching, or being completely content with said team being run into the ground then congrats, but as far as I'm concerned, that's not a real fan at all.
Haven't ever switched in 31 years as an Oilers fan. Mind you, I don't spend much time whining either. I'd rather find another team than spend emotional capital on the bellyaching that folks do round these parts.

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