Not to mention I've seen you make a few left field statements in the last few months like Brayden Schenn is a bust, and Clark is a bust based on his age and expendable because of Guenin, and there are others. I really do get the sense that sometimes you flip a switch in conversations and what follows is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
DuckJet, you just seem to be making some pretty strong statements based on a short tournament. I just find that strange, especially since earlier you seemed to brush aside using the tournament as any kind of indicator when people mentioned that Etem had a pretty unimpressive tournament.
What strong statements are those? I defended Etem when someone wrote him off as the next Andrew Cogliano. If someone said he probably won't be ready for NHL action I'd agree with them. I'm not saying Etem didn't have a strong tournament. He didn't. I'm also not saying Forsberg is a bust. I'm not saying he's going to go on to have a terrible career. I'm just saying I don't think he's ready for the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose
Not to mention I've seen you make a few left field statements in the last few months like Brayden Schenn is a bust, and Clark is a bust based on his age and expendable because of Guenin, and there are others. I really do get the sense that sometimes you flip a switch in conversations and what follows is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Please quote me where I said he's a bust. You don't have to go to the trouble, but if you can prove me wrong I'll shut up. All I said was he's overrated. He was believed to be the best player not in the NHL...I always thought that statement was overly bold, dramatic, and incorrect. Schenn's play hasn't done anything to prove me wrong yet. I meerly said in comparison to Couturier, I'd rather take Couturier because he's done more with less development and still has room to grow and be the better player.
What I said about Clark...yeah. That was an exaggeration on my part and I recognize myself as being incorrect there. I was honestly under the impression that he was being scratched on a consistent basis. Just something I read on Twitter, and I didn't do my own homework. I don't know why you have to interpret it as fury. I'm just having a discussion. If anything you guys are taking my opinions and blowing them out of proportion. I simply don't believe Forsberg is NHL-ready, and we'll see pretty soon who is right. That's all I'm saying, but you guys react like I said Forsberg is a sure fire bust or something.
Played his career in QMJHL and they can't even find a French GM....
Why are we discussing this? He's a lock to MTL... You can have him and his ego bs...
I said don't let Montreal fans see that. I didn't say you were wrong. Grigorenko is considered to be the second best player in the draft. He plays in the QMJHL, he plays for Quebec, he dominates FOR Quebec, and he fills Montreal's hole at center...they'll be outraged if you suggest anyone other than Mikhail.
This is what I'm saying. You guys see me say Filip Forsberg is likely not NHL ready and it's like "oooohhh DuckJet must HATE Forsberg" I feel like I'm on trial in this thread. Forsberg is one of my favorite prospects out of the last 3 drafts. I think I only like Yakupov, Fowler, Etem, Smith Pelly, Larsson, Huberdeau, and Galchenyuk more. I'm talking about someone who is very likely to sport a Ducks jersey this June...and one I'll be ecstatic to welcome to the team. That won't change the fact that I don't see him playing in the NHL next year. Just cause a few scouts said otherwise, I MUST be wrong, and I MUST hate Forsberg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducksgo
Played his career in QMJHL and they can't even find a French GM....
Why are we discussing this? He's a lock to MTL... You can have him and his ego bs...
Pretty much what I was saying. Still don't know why they HAVE TO HAVE a French GM. I understand the need to communicate with the fans...but...you know. Translators need jobs too. Stimulate that economy. You should hire the best man for the job.
I said don't let Montreal fans see that. I didn't say you were wrong. Grigorenko is considered to be the second best player in the draft. He plays in the QMJHL, he plays for Quebec, he dominates FOR Quebec, and he fills Montreal's hole at center...they'll be outraged if you suggest anyone other than Mikhail.
This is what I'm saying. You guys see me say Filip Forsberg is likely not NHL ready and it's like "oooohhh DuckJet must HATE Forsberg" I feel like I'm on trial in this thread. Forsberg is one of my favorite prospects out of the last 3 drafts. I think I only like Yakupov, Fowler, Etem, Smith Pelly, Larsson, Huberdeau, and Galchenyuk more. I'm talking about someone who is very likely to sport a Ducks jersey this June...and one I'll be ecstatic to welcome to the team. That won't change the fact that I don't see him playing in the NHL next year. Just cause a few scouts said otherwise, I MUST be wrong, and I MUST hate Forsberg.
Pretty much what I was saying. Still don't know why they HAVE TO HAVE a French GM. I understand the need to communicate with the fans...but...you know. Translators need jobs too. Stimulate that economy. You should hire the best man for the job.
He shows up when he wants
To show up. Saw him
In WJC and he had a few SOLID shifts but other than that he's the most overhyped player in this draft. Unless he blows scouts away at
Combine I think he drops if MTL
Doesn't take him. I am not impressed with him and his work ethic. If we take him imma be pissed.... His work ethic is complete ass... I hope MTL loses a pick and drafts him and has a few AHL seasons and can't cut it do he bolts KHL bound so we can draft a better player that's commited to the NA league.... Boooo
Forsberg is probably number 7/8 on my list of who I want the Ducks to take, I just have a gut feeling that he won't become what the hype says he'll be. Granted I've never seen him play but just an inside feeling.
I have him behind
Nail
Grig
Galy
Murray
Trouba
Dumba
Then it's a toss-up between Forsberg and Reinhart IMO.
He shows up when he wants
To show up. Saw him
In WJC and he had a few SOLID shifts but other than that he's the most overhyped player in this draft. Unless he blows scouts away at
Combine I think he drops if MTL
Doesn't take him. I am not impressed with him and his work ethic. If we take him imma be pissed.... His work ethic is complete ass...
I just can't see Montreal picking anyone other than Grigorenko, unless Edmonton takes him. I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see that happen and then Montreal takes Galchenyuk....which, would probably work out for us...maybe
Yakupov
Grigorenko
Galchenyuk
Dumba
Murray
Nah. That still leaves us with our pick of Forsberg, Trouba, or Reinhart.
Forsberg is probably number 7/8 on my list of who I want the Ducks to take, I just have a gut feeling that he won't become what the hype says he'll be. Granted I've never seen him play but just an inside feeling.
I have him behind
Nail
Grig
Galy
Murray
Trouba
Dumba
Then it's a toss-up between Forsberg and Reinhart IMO.
Well our opinion means **** and he's ranked 4th overall and NHL ready according to scouts. I will gladly take him over lilwayne prima Donna Grigorenko.... Yes I said
It
I worked with what I got. Jesus it's like you guys think I expect Forsberg to fall to the second round or something. Usually in Forsberg vs Collberg threads I'm Forsberg's biggest backer. And he really is one of my favorite prospects in the draft. I won't be upset if we draft him. I just don't think he'd get a start in the NHL come this October.
I still think Etem's talent and potential can be analyzed. Both players were held...one scoreless and one with limited offense. My stance on the STATS and impact on the result of their team's finish are unchanged. And I'm not saying Forsberg was BAD. I'm just saying I've watched all kinds of tournaments like this, and 5 games can be a sufficient glimpse. I thought watching DSP in the Memorial Cup that he was NHL ready. I thought watching Fowler in the same tournament that he was NHL ready. I thought watching Huberdeau in the same tournament that he WASN'T NHL ready, and I was right. I thought watching Etem at the WJC and Palmieri that it was a good choice sending them down after their respective camps in 2011 and 2010 because they weren't NHL ready, and I think that of Forsberg. He just doesn't execute well enough even individually. He has the innate talent and his mind is going in the right places when he makes decisions he just lacked the finesse and experience to execute them. It's called inexperience, and it's typically found in prospects his age. It's expected, not an earth-shattering down-fall. Same goes with Etem. He didn't have a BAD tournament, but he didn't do enough right and I'm in the camp that believes that he'll be in the AHL next year. He has all the right ideas, but against mature competition he wasn't executing.
Watching Forsberg try to do things on an individual level, he just won't excel at the NHL level right out of the draft. I think what the scouts mean by NHL-ready, is that physically, he could probably handle it. I'll agree with that notion, but he won't excel the way Landeskog has. In my opinion Forsberg will probably have the same impact as, say, Matt Beleskey (if we draft and play him this next season). Maybe slightly better. So yeah. He very well could handle NHL play, but we don't want our prospects to HANDLE it. We want to develop them so they can EXCEED.
I'm not trying to say you have some sort of irrational hate for Forsberg, or even that you think he's not a good prospect, I'm just pointing out inconsistencies in your posting history.
Well our opinion means sht and he's ranked 4th overall and NHL ready according to scouts. I will gladly take him over lilwayne prima Donna Grigorenko.... Yes I said
It
It's not that simple though. It never is. If it was, Cam Fowler would be a third overall pick and a Florida Panther right now...or an Islander.
I think 2010 is a perfect example of why teams don't necessarily take BPA in the draft.
Edmonton and Boston took the two uncontested BPAs
Florida valued Gudbranson's physicality over Fowler's poise and skating and EG was a riser.
CBJ needed a center
NYI needed...well...who knows what is in Wang's head?
TBL was adamant about drafting a forward
Dallas needed a goalie after Turco left and their pipeline was ****
NYR made it public that their managerial direction was to make NYR a grittier team so they took McIlrath.
It's conditional. Some teams value some guys more than others and some teams draft BPA at the position they need. We have a ton of wingers. We have decent centers so we'll take Grig or Galchenyuk, but not Faksa and Gaunce. At least not at 6. But we need more physical stay at home defenders. It's not crazy to think that we'd take Dumba, Trouba, or Reinhart over Forsberg (and keep in mind that I'll still be overjoyed with FF regardless of how the draft goes).
Again. Our opinion is **** like you said...but I don't think if Grigorenko is available Murray would pass. Could be wrong. I said the same thing about Fowler (had him in the don't bother expecting him or Hall, or Seguin group)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinegar Strokes
I'm not trying to say you have some sort of irrational hate for Forsberg, or even that you think he's not a good prospect, I'm just pointing out inconsistencies in your posting history.
The problem is you take those inconsistencies out of context. I never defended Etem's performance at the WJC. I even expressed how disappointed I was in him. I defended him when people started to question his career upside. Some people were writing him off as a bust and I said 5 games worth of disappointing play isn't enough of an indicator to say that Etem will have a bad career. If someone had said he's not ready for the NHL I would've agreed. i still believe that. I said that in the Etem thread. He has the WHL figured out. But those are boys. He needs to figure things out among men now. Similarly, I use Forsberg's WJC performance and say that he likely won't excel right out of his draft at the NHL level. I praised his skill-set and upside, and awknowledged that he's probably going to be a great player. So the context of me using WJC to analyze Forsberg's immediate future is different than me dismissing the WJC when used to degrade expectations of Etem's entire CAREER UPSIDE. The inconsistency exists only because I'm talking about two different things entirely. Short term NHL future, vs long term NHL future.
Well our opinion means sht and he's ranked 4th overall and NHL ready according to scouts. I will gladly take him over lilwayne prima Donna Grigorenko.... Yes I said
It
I watched every Sweden game at the WJC's, Forsberg was a factor, but while he created alot of good opportunities, he also had trouble finding the net. i worry about him being more of an MPS, rather than Nicklas Backstrom, who he gets compared to. He has alot of talent, I will be watching the U-18's closely to see if it was just a fluke.
I am also beyond pissed off, team USA does not have Galchenyuk on it's roster but maybe it's a blessing in disguise.....but if we want him we have to trade up, atleast 2 spots
I see the top 4 playing out as some combo of Nail/Grigorenko/Dumba/Murray so imo Forsberg or Galchenyuk will be a Duck, unless we trade down and want Faksa or a defensemen
DuckJet, you just seem to be making some pretty strong statements based on a short tournament. I just find that strange, especially since earlier you seemed to brush aside using the tournament as any kind of indicator when people mentioned that Etem had a pretty unimpressive tournament.
The entire USA team was unimpressive. I don't see anyone downplaying Coyle and others, like Etem is
The entire USA team was unimpressive. I don't see anyone downplaying Coyle and others, like Etem is
Exactly. I only used the WJC is too short to say that a poor showing isn't a good indicator for LONG TERM SUCCESS. I'm using what I saw at the tournament to gauge both player's short term success. Plenty of players have been held scoreless and went on to be great players, and plenty have led the tournament in scoring and amounted to nothing. I graded Forsberg on a level of individual effort and NHL-readiness. Believe me. While I watched him, I WANTED to see NHL-ready traits. And I say he could handle NHL play physically but he just doesn't have the experience to excel yet. It's not like I said something astonishingly incorrect that has never been said about a prospect before.
The entire USA team was unimpressive. I don't see anyone downplaying Coyle and others, like Etem is
You're right, we spend so much time talking about Coyle that I'm sick of all the hype. What is wrong with you people? We should be talking about our own prospects for a change.
I don't really see Forsberg as playing next year. His league is fine and possibly a bit underrated, but he should probably be doing a bit better to be a good NHLer right away. I'd guess mid to high 20s in points in that league would be a solid season in terms of being NHL ready?
For comparison, MPS/MSP/MP (whatever his name is now) was in the SEL his draft year. 17 points in 50 games. So comparable league and comparable stats. Stayed in SEL his post-draft year, got 29 points. Played NHL the following year. Even this year he doesn't quite seem NHL ready, but that might be more in terms of not improving.
I disagree that it will take Forsberg that long to be ready though. Or that he will need AHL time. Top Europeans jump straight into the NHL from their foreign leagues. They just take a year or two there. For Forsberg I'd guess 1 more year then the big show.
I don't really see Forsberg as playing next year. His league is fine and possibly a bit underrated, but he should probably be doing a bit better to be a good NHLer right away. I'd guess mid to high 20s in points in that league would be a solid season in terms of being NHL ready?
For comparison, MPS/MSP/MP (whatever his name is now) was in the SEL his draft year. 17 points in 50 games. So comparable league and comparable stats. Stayed in SEL his post-draft year, got 29 points. Played NHL the following year. Even this year he doesn't quite seem NHL ready, but that might be more in terms of not improving.
Oh god...I really hope he's not an MPS clone. Well...from what I saw at WJC, Forsberg has better tools than MPS.
Well...I gave Forsberg the typical career path. If he doesn't need time to adjust to the NA game, more power to him.
DuckJet, you just seem to be making some pretty strong statements based on a short tournament. I just find that strange, especially since earlier you seemed to brush aside using the tournament as any kind of indicator when people mentioned that Etem had a pretty unimpressive tournament.
I think WJC argument was less duckjet and more occupysheen and ducksgo.
You're right, we spend so much time talking about Coyle that I'm sick of all the hype. What is wrong with you people? We should be talking about our own prospects for a change.
Im not talking about Ducks fans, the prospects board thinks Coyle is amazing, the team had almost no chemistry, so it doesn't matter how talented some individuals are.....watching it I never went, "geez Etem and Coyle suck, have no talent" the team was poorly built from the outset
