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04-08-2012, 06:44 PM
  #1
JohnnyB11
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Defense going forward

Just wondering what everyone thinks about our D going forward? Assuming no moves, are you comfortable what we have? Our defense consists of Markov, Subban, Gorges, Kaberle, Emelin, Diaz/Weber with St-Denis in the eighth slot.

Is this a 2012-2013 playoff contenders defense group?

I believe it has the potential to be, but I've been wrong before lol


Last edited by JohnnyB11: 04-08-2012 at 07:07 PM.
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04-08-2012, 06:48 PM
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coolasprICE
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I don't want our D's to play forward.

You don't win with 5 forwards on the ice

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04-08-2012, 07:00 PM
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thethrillisgone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Is this a 2012-2013 playoff contenders defense group?
Yes.

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04-08-2012, 07:03 PM
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MarkovsKnee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Just wondering what everyone thinks about our D going forward? Assuming no moves, are comfortable what we have? Our defense consists of Markov, Subban, Gorges, Kaberle, Emelin, Diaz/Weber with St-Denis in the eighth slot.

Is this a 2012-2013 playoff contenders defense group?

I believe it has the potential to be, but I've been wrong before lol
No. One of Diaz and Weber has to go, but we keep Kaberle in case Markov goes down again. He was better offensively then either Diaz or Weber. He needs to be paired with a defensive defenseman though.

I'm also not sure about Emelin's ability to play a top 4 role next year. I think he's still a 5-6-7 guy.

D should be:

Markov - XXXX (legit top 4 D)
Gorges - Subban
Kaberle - XXXXX (Defensive D)
Emelin - Weber or Diaz or St. Denis

I want 8 guys going into next year. Chances are we'll have injuries again next year. It also gives our coach an opportunity to move people in and out of the line-up as he sees fit.

I can see St. Denis clearing waivers next year, so he might be odd man out. If St. Denis is in the AHL then technically we'd be 9 deep, which is even better.

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04-08-2012, 07:07 PM
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giovannicanella
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Contentment with the current production of the present D corps is ostensible and a very unwise display of being complacent...

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04-08-2012, 07:10 PM
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JohnnyB11
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Originally Posted by giovannicanella View Post
Contentment with the current production of the present D corps is ostensible and a very unwise display of being complacent...
But the D group as stated is not the group that played for the 11/12 season, thus your logic is flawed.

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04-08-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Just wondering what everyone thinks about our D going forward? Assuming no moves, are you comfortable what we have? Our defense consists of Markov, Subban, Gorges, Kaberle, Emelin, Diaz/Weber with St-Denis in the eighth slot.

Is this a 2012-2013 playoff contenders defense group?

I believe it has the potential to be, but I've been wrong before lol
Johnny bro , contender with this D ?

cmon man

Markov...is finished ...if he plays 50 games a year we are lucky , he will never be the same and grossly overpaid

Diaz , Webber , St. Denis are dime a dozen 7th d fillers

PK, Emelin, Jorges are solid

Kaberle is on the downside of his career

Tinordi, Nathan, Ellis, and others will determine how much we improve

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04-08-2012, 07:18 PM
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LeMAD
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Considering that Kaberle will be staying because of his salary, that leaves us this:

Subban-Gorges
Markov-???
Kaberle-???
Diaz-St-Denis-Emelin-Weber

Or go with 7 dmen and switch Kaberle with Diaz. Still two dmen missing.

And I guess that with Tinordi-Nash-Beaulieu-Ellis in the minors we could trade/get rid of Emelin and Weber and go with 8 regulars.

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04-08-2012, 07:20 PM
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LeMAD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
Johnny bro , contender with this D ?

cmon man

Markov...is finished ...if he plays 50 games a year we are lucky , he will never be the same and grossly overpaid

Diaz , Webber , St. Denis are dime a dozen 7th d fillers

PK, Emelin, Jorges are solid

Kaberle is on the downside of his career

Tinordi, Nathan, Ellis, and others will determine how much we improve
Markov will be back in good shape. Not what he used to be but still a legit top-4 and good PP player.

Emelin is not "solid" though. "Bad" is the word you were looking for.

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04-08-2012, 07:42 PM
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CrAzYNiNe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
Johnny bro , contender with this D ?

cmon man

Markov...is finished ...if he plays 50 games a year we are lucky , he will never be the same and grossly overpaid

Diaz , Webber , St. Denis are dime a dozen 7th d fillers

PK, Emelin, Jorges are solid

Kaberle is on the downside of his career

Tinordi, Nathan, Ellis, and others will determine how much we improve
Do you really believe these two following statements?

Markov needs more time before I say anything of that notion. Missing over 100 games and being placed back in the lineup isn't exactly the easiest thing.

Kaberle has been given the roughest ride from the Montreal media it's incredible. It was only last year, February 2011 where Kaberle was traded for a 1st round pick and a player picked in the first round. He then goes on to win the Stanley Cup. This year he signs a contract, 4.5 is a little much and 3 years is a little long but as a UFA these type of things happen. He was positively dreadful with Carolina. The team sucked and so did he. Since being traded to Montreal, he continued a pace very similar to that of what he was doing in Toronto and was traded for essentially 2 first round picks.

Having both Markov and Kaberle in the same line up may be detrimental considering if Markov doesn't find his step he will be the exact same player Kaberle is.

None the less, I can not say you are wrong about Markov that we will have to wait and see. The fact of the matter is the Kaberle trade was a bad business trade, but he didn't under achieve as a hab this year.

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04-08-2012, 08:40 PM
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giovannicanella
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I should have opined my views in manner onemorecup has...

The central theme really should be that a champions mentality is never satisfied with his production and is always searching to maintain its dominance over the rest...we should search to have the best mix of G, D, and F but independently each department should search to maximise what they have and maximise the power of procurement of talent, retention and production.

Specifically...Weber, Diaz are not really very solid...Markov...huge fan but...Kaberle...yikes....in fact our D core leaves a lot to be desired my friends...here is to the development of the young guns in the system...Tinordi et all...

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04-08-2012, 08:53 PM
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Subban-Gorges is a solid top pairing that's only going to get better.

Beyond that we have a ton of interesting names that are ready or close:

Markov, Kaberle, Emelin, Diaz, Weber, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis.

Markov we're married to. Kaberle I think is movable, and Weber should probably be moved to, as I prefer Diaz. I'd be content with an Emelin-Diaz 3rd pairing.

So basically I see us looking like:

Gorges-Subban
Markov-?????
Emelin-Diaz

With Tinordi, Bealieu, and Ellis a year or so away. IMO Tinordi is close, while we should take our time with Beaulieu and let him learn to dominate the AHL and then have him replace Markov in a couple years. Consider Ellis as insurance in case Diaz falters (but I like Diaz and think he's going to be solid, saw him live twice this year and he is one of those players that are much more impressive live as you see there smarts away from the play.) If we could sign a one year stop gap to be a stopgap until Tinordi is ready that would be ideal. In a couple of years I expect to see:

Tinordi-Subban
Bealieu-Gorges
Emelin-Ellis-Diaz

That's damn solid.

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04-08-2012, 09:16 PM
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SouthernHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
Just wondering what everyone thinks about our D going forward? Assuming no moves, are you comfortable what we have? Our defense consists of Markov, Subban, Gorges, Kaberle, Emelin, Diaz/Weber with St-Denis in the eighth slot.

Is this a 2012-2013 playoff contenders defense group?

I believe it has the potential to be, but I've been wrong before lol
No, this D is for the most part Horrible.

The only D that should be here next year on that list are Markov, Subban, Gorges, Emelin and unfortunately Kaberle as Kaberle's contract cannot be traded or dumped.

St-Denis back to Hamilton, Weber and Diaz traded for whatever we can get for them (or sent down to Hamilton) and Campoli not re-signed.

The D was the downfall of this team and to keep the same players is just asking for a repeat of this year. Too soft, too passive. We need bigger and tougher D to beat the teams with the big strong forwards.

Hopefully our new management recognizes this reality of the NHL in 2012.

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04-08-2012, 09:18 PM
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Watsatheo
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The title 'Defense going forward' brings memories of our D playing forward.

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04-08-2012, 09:35 PM
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Bleeker
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We desperately need a solid top 4 Dman.

We just cant assume Markov will be back as effective as he once was a couple years ago.
We have a good core in Subban, Gorges and Emelin
Kaberle is close to useless but i guess we will have to stick with him
Weber should be traded for a pick
I'd like Diaz as a 7th dman , playing on the 2nd PP unit.

IMO we need a guy like Seidenberg in Boston . Solid in his own zone with a good transition game.
A guy who can do the same job that Hamrlik did for us while he was here

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04-08-2012, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Do you really believe these two following statements?

Markov needs more time before I say anything of that notion. Missing over 100 games and being placed back in the lineup isn't exactly the easiest thing.

Kaberle has been given the roughest ride from the Montreal media it's incredible. It was only last year, February 2011 where Kaberle was traded for a 1st round pick and a player picked in the first round. He then goes on to win the Stanley Cup. This year he signs a contract, 4.5 is a little much and 3 years is a little long but as a UFA these type of things happen. He was positively dreadful with Carolina. The team sucked and so did he. Since being traded to Montreal, he continued a pace very similar to that of what he was doing in Toronto and was traded for essentially 2 first round picks.

Having both Markov and Kaberle in the same line up may be detrimental considering if Markov doesn't find his step he will be the exact same player Kaberle is.

None the less, I can not say you are wrong about Markov that we will have to wait and see. The fact of the matter is the Kaberle trade was a bad business trade, but he didn't under achieve as a hab this year.
Markov is already showing more to his game than he had before he was injured. He's made a few errors, and he does seem to get out of breath, but he's taken the hits and isn't shying away from contact. If you saw the way he was watching the game sitting on the bench, you know that he's going to change the team.

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04-08-2012, 10:24 PM
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For next year I think it'll look something like

Subban-Gorges
Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-XXXX
Diaz, St. Denis, Weber or a FA, possibly even Tinordi if he has a really good camp

Not horrible, but not great. Would like it if we could get a solid 3rd pairing D, maybe package Weber and St. Denis for one.

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04-08-2012, 10:32 PM
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Stradale
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
The title 'Defense going forward' brings memories of our D playing forward.
Streit, Dandenault, Weber, MAB, pretty sure Bouillon played at least one game as a forward at some point too. Who else?

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04-08-2012, 10:50 PM
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St-Denis has showed some pretty solid defensive play in the last weeks he might be up for a full season. Diaz didn't make many mistakes but was rather pale, Weber is a total no show he either lacks talent or just doesn't care. I wanna see Kaberle stay I think he still has fuel and staying healthy next year will help the habs by a lot. Best case scenario would be Ryan Suter giving the market a shot and landing in Montreal, Campoli has showed progress but for some reason I don't think he fits well in the group.

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04-08-2012, 10:54 PM
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The Habs really need a guy like Suter. I'd offer him a crazy contract. A guy you can lean on for 25 mins a game; a defensive stud.

The best thing for this defence is get a go-to guy that pushes the expectations and responsibilities of others down.

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04-08-2012, 11:09 PM
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As it stands, that D looks downright scary and not in a good way. Gorges and Subban are a good top pairing. Beyond that we've got younger players and a very brittle Markov. As for Kaberle... I hope we can pawn him off on someone. Don't even need much of anything back just dump him somewhere.

I hope we just play with the younger group we have. Give Emelin, Weber, Diaz and St. Denis a real chance to play and show what they can do. Signing Suter would be kind of wicked but there's now way he comes here. As for Markov, best we can hope for is that he plays reasonably well and we can trade him off to a contender for something to build with. He's not winning a cup here and it's time to cut the cord with him. Problem is that he's not worth much right now.

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04-09-2012, 12:44 AM
  #22
Dekar
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Even strength
Subban/Gorges
Markov/Emelin
Diaz/St-Denis

Powerplay
Markov/Subban
Kaberle/Diaz

Penalty Kill
Gorges/Emelin
Subban/Kaberle

Weber needs to be Hamilton'd for another season. I don't think it's the right move to trade him just yet.

Diaz has a good shot and can take second PP duties instead of Weber since we can play Diaz at ES too.

The PK lines I'm not fond of, but it doesn't look like there's any combos I like with our current group now. Subban's already playing top pairing at ES and PP, so I don't want to burn him out on the PK too, but we do need him. Kaberle's a floater so he'd fit in on the PK since he's good with his stick and he doesn't have to move much, he'll just play down low.

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04-09-2012, 12:49 AM
  #23
Stradale
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
The Habs really need a guy like Suter. I'd offer him a crazy contract. A guy you can lean on for 25 mins a game; a defensive stud.

The best thing for this defence is get a go-to guy that pushes the expectations and responsibilities of others down.
I have a feeling that Suter will end up with Detroit or Philly.

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04-09-2012, 02:52 AM
  #24
Talks to Goalposts
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The Habs really need a guy like Suter. I'd offer him a crazy contract. A guy you can lean on for 25 mins a game; a defensive stud.

The best thing for this defence is get a go-to guy that pushes the expectations and responsibilities of others down.
Suter would be great to have but he's not a vital need. They have the top of the rotation already, where they really need help is in the middle to push Emelin and Diaz into the everyday third pairing role they should be filling.

I take him even for big money just because you take high level talent from FA were you can find it but they don't direly need a Suter. They need a decent top 4 to round out the 2nd pairing.

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04-09-2012, 03:24 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Suter would be great to have but he's not a vital need. They have the top of the rotation already, where they really need help is in the middle to push Emelin and Diaz into the everyday third pairing role they should be filling.

I take him even for big money just because you take high level talent from FA were you can find it but they don't direly need a Suter. They need a decent top 4 to round out the 2nd pairing.
I don't agree, Markov before his injury was better than both of where Subban and Gorges are at currently, if he's not the old Markov the Habs are missing a stud. Suter would be an insane fit for this team, I don't see him signing here, but I think a stud on D is still missing. Maybe people are forgetting how good Markov was and what a difference he made, having an arguable top 10 in the league defencemen was a freaking treat while it lasted.

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