Unlikely to be a top-6 forward at 18? I can't think of a time the first overall pick didn't start the season in the top 6.
Depends on what is meant by "top-6". Able to score in an exploitation role a la Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, sure. Able to face top opposition on a regular basis as he would on Plekanec's wing? Much rarer.
Depends on what is meant by "top-6". Able to score in an exploitation role a la Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, sure. Able to face top opposition on a regular basis as he would on Plekanec's wing? Much rarer.
Regardless, Stamkos and Nash weren't even that long ago. Neither started in a "top 6 role". Technically speaking, Hall didn't either. Neither did Lecavalier, or Thornton, to round out the list of active 1st overall pick forwards.
Parise is a good player... so was Cammalleri. It doesn't make sense right now though. Why wouldn't we wait at least another year, see where we're at and then maybe look at a move like this? Right now Parise does nothing for us right now.
Parise isn't far more talented than Cammaleri was. He's not going to lead us anywhere with the club we have. He's 28 and we won't be contenders with him next year. And if you're saying that he could be with us when we eventually become contenders... then why the hell not wait until we actually are contenders first before looking at a move like this?
NO reason to do this now. None. Not unless you want to go after 8th place and continue the trend of being small, soft and medicore.
Exactly. Why the hell would he want to come here anyway? He can see what our fans can't... makes no sense for him to come here if he wants to win a cup.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and yet folks want us to continue doing the same things that haven't worked.
Parise is one of the best two-way wingers in the league. Cammalleri has never been close to that. Its hard to imagine a better linemate for Plekanec. He'd be the missign piece on the top six, to all they'd need to do is tweek the blueline (biggest pieces for defense is already there). Bring him in and you're pretty close to a contender already, never mind waiting around for a few years.
This is academic anyway, I doubt Montreal is even in a position to sign him.
He's unlikely to be a top-6 forward at 18, and very unlikely to be able to play Plekanec-type defensive minutes. Could see him slotting next to DD and bumping MaxPac up though.
What ? First picks almost always are Top 6 forward to begin with... and become stars 2-3 years after.
Yakupov will de facto be better than Gionta and probably Pleks also, at least offensively.
Parise is one of the best two-way wingers in the league. Cammalleri has never been close to that. Its hard to imagine a better linemate for Plekanec. He'd be the missign piece on the top six, to all they'd need to do is tweek the blueline (biggest pieces for defense is already there). Bring him in and you're pretty close to a contender already, never mind waiting around for a few years.
This is academic anyway, I doubt Montreal is even in a position to sign him.
I highly doubt they could pull off signing him
Signing him makes us 80% smurf in the top 6 again. I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense from that standpoint, nevermind the fact that adding him in no way makes us contenders with the D that we have now.
Signing him makes us 80% smurf in the top 6 again. I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense from that standpoint, nevermind the fact that adding him in no way makes us contenders with the D that we have now.
Tell me where you would find that big, skilled top 6 forward that's as effective as Parise is. It's not like he is soft.
If you are that worried about size you put him with Eller.
If the next GM has a brain he will make the highest offer possible for Parise, he is a gamebreaker and we never had a offensive player of that caliber since I can't remember when.
Signing him makes us 80% smurf in the top 6 again. I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense from that standpoint, nevermind the fact that adding him in no way makes us contenders with the D that we have now.
Good lord how some people could think signing one of the most dangerous players in the game could be anything but an excellent move is hilarious.
If Parise even looks our way we offer him as much as we can and don't look back.
Signing him makes us 80% smurf in the top 6 again. I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense from that standpoint, nevermind the fact that adding him in no way makes us contenders with the D that we have now.
They've got 3/4th of a good top 4 already between Subban, Gorges and Markov. The d stunk this year but between Markov and the maturation of Emelin-Diaz they're not in that bad of a position going into next year. Just find another 2nd pairing guy at they're there already.
And I don't care much about smurf-ness. If a guy is good a guy is good.
I won't hold my breath but ... Parise - Plek- gionta ... would be nice. If We dont land parise, we should go for a big mobile guy ... if it clics with bourque, great, but I doubt it .
Erik Cole - David Desharnais - Max Pacioretty
Brian Gionta - Tomas Plekanec - P-A Parenteau
Rene Bourque - Lars Eller - Louis Leblanc
Travis Moen - Ryan White - Mathieu Darche
P.K Subban - Josh Gorges
Andrei Markov - Alexei Emelin
Rafael Diaz - Brad Stuart or Bryan Allen
Frederic St-Denis
Carey Price
Peter Budaj
Re-Sign Travis Moen, Mathieu Darche
Sign P-A Parenteau, Brad Stuart or Bryan Allen
Buyout Scott Gomez
Buyout Tomas Kaberle
Trade 1st round pick this season (or keep it if Montreal wins the lottery of course)+ extra (s) to Florida for Jonathan Huberdeau. Unless amazing pre season camp, you let him go in the AHL for one season.
I think this team would be a realistic line up for next year. A team with a great mix of talent and grit, of course I would like Montreal to get Parise or Suter but I tried to build a line-up that could be "realistic". Opinons about this?
Pleks has had a parade of underachievers on his wing this season. He deserves better. One thing I think Montreal has gotten away from is players knowing their role.
By his own admission he's not a points guy. He's more of our shutdown centre. Why have we been trying to make him something he's not. I see no problem with our second line being a shutdown line that can turn the tables. I think our scoring line is set. I see no reason that 2.5 Men can't produce 85+ goals next year.
I think ???/Pleks/Gionta needs to score 60+ while being a shutdown line. We need 1 goal per game from the 3/4 line to be competitive. I don't think going for a big free agent is the answer... so.... Bourque is a proven 20+ scorer that plays decent d... Gionta might be the missing ingredient needed.
Tell me where you would find that big, skilled top 6 forward that's as effective as Parise is. It's not like he is soft.
If you are that worried about size you put him with Eller.
If the next GM has a brain he will make the highest offer possible for Parise, he is a gamebreaker and we never had a offensive player of that caliber since I can't remember when.
It doesn't matter that he's not soft. He's small and we've already got a bunch of small players up front. DD isn't soft either, that didn't stop Eric Karlsson from picking him up and literally holding him against the boards off the ice for about 15 seconds.
Moreover, it's not like one more forward is going to make us contenders. It makes no sense to do this now.
Putting him with Eller makes no sense either. Why get a guy like this to play with your 3rd line center?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble
Good lord how some people could think signing one of the most dangerous players in the game could be anything but an excellent move is hilarious.
If Parise even looks our way we offer him as much as we can and don't look back.
Right. And we should bring back PG too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts
They've got 3/4th of a good top 4 already between Subban, Gorges and Markov. The d stunk this year but between Markov and the maturation of Emelin-Diaz they're not in that bad of a position going into next year. Just find another 2nd pairing guy at they're there already.
Maybe, maybe not. Our D could be terrible next year. We just came in last place for Pete's sake and our best players were playing pretty good hockey. There's good reason to believe that we could crash next season as well.
And any plan that includes counting on Markov to be healthy should be ripped to shreds, burned, buried and then pissed on. We've been down that road for three years now. Are we going to keep playing Charlie Brown to Markov's knee? How many times do you have to smack on the ground before you realize there's a good chance that the football is going to be pulled away at the last second?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts
And I don't care much about smurf-ness. If a guy is good a guy is good.
The fact that he's a smurf is secondary to the fact that it makes no sense to get him now anyway as we're not at that stage yet.
As for Parise's size, we don't just have smurfs... we have two midgets. It makes sense to get some size to balance it out. We don't need to add a UFA now. Makes a hell of a lot more sense to play the year out and make evaluations next season and go from there. Just because Parise is the best forward out there now doesn't mean that he makes sense to go after. Other forwards will be available later next year and next deadline and next summer... Why do you want us to continue acting out of a sense of desperation with more reactionary moves?
We should be looking at younger prospects to invest in. Go after Kyle Turris, JVRD types. No, they aren't as established as Parise and they may not have the same upside (and might even be busts) but they're younger and we can build and develop them along with what we have. Makes more sense to do it that way and then invest in the UFA market down the road.
Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 04-08-2012 at 10:04 PM.
I am so fed up with the damn size debate that I'm considering implementing a new policy of mine : putting on ignore list anyone that uses the word "smurfs"...
nice player ...but how many more fken years do you want to go with his 50-55 points and we stink in the end crap
if we are to move in the right direction ...Pleks and DD cant be your 1-2 period
you cant win squat with these 2 guys down the middle , name one contender with this duo down the middle ??? NONE
this team needs an overhaul of the top 6 period ....
Gio, nice guy but at 33 time to go
his 20-25 goals are replaceable if we are prepared to play Eller and Leblanc and give them legit top 6 minuts and pp time .
but cmom folks , Gio, Pleks, Gomez , need to go to move forward
you can buy time with the midget for one more year , but not long term
Don't understand this line of thinking at all. Plekanec put up 52 points this year (35 assists), which on a last place team isn't too shabby for a 2nd line center playing a lot of shut down minutes.
Also, Look at his linemates.
Cole DD Patches was a pretty consistent line for at least that latter half of the season.
AK 12-12-24
Cammy 9-13-22
Bourque 5-3-8
Leblanc 5-5-10
Gionta 8-7-15
Mind you none of these guys played a full season on the roster, but these are not impressive top six numbers. Don't think Plek can take all the blame for this, 35 assists same as last year, less goals. Past the 1st line, I don't think there was a single bright spot up front for the Habs. I like Leblanc, think he will round out to a pretty solid NHL player, but doubt he can crack the top 6 next year if the new GM does his job. Trading Plekanec could backfire HARD if we get too little in return and he winds up centering a SOLID second line and puts up 70+ points. I'll likely get laughed at for suggesting this but it could happen. He isn't a dressing room cancer, doesn't seem to want out, and is one of our vets that seems to bring an effort on most nights. Would be stupid to trade him if the return wasn't excellent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilliam
I am so fed up with the damn size debate that I'm considering implementing a new policy of mine : putting on ignore list anyone that uses the word "smurfs"...
Agree with you to a point. DD has earned his spot. Gionta still might have some game left, see no reason why he wouldn't other than maybe recurring injuries. Wouldn't want both him and Gallagher in the top 6, if only because it makes line shuffling difficult. Three players as small as DD Gionta and Gallagher on a line together would be easy to match up against for opposing coaches and they would get shoved around more often than not. Like Gionta, and would keep Gallagher developing in the AHL as a replacement (unless his play forces him up)
I find it comical how many people are dumping on Pleks. He's played this season with jack for wingers, and here are his stats:
GP - G - A - P - +/-
81 - 17 - 35 - 52 - -11
Point total good enough for 29th in the league among centers. He did that, and was centering garbage. Won't lie, the plus-minus is concerning but there's a reason he's the first wave of our #2 ranked penalty kill.
If we run him out of town, it will come back to bite us.
It doesn't matter that he's not soft. He's small and we've already got a bunch of small players up front. DD isn't soft either, that didn't stop Eric Karlsson from picking him up and literally holding him against the boards off the ice for about 15 seconds.
Moreover, it's not like one more forward is going to make us contenders. It makes no sense to do this now.
Putting him with Eller makes no sense either. Why get a guy like this to play with your 3rd line center?
Right. And we should bring back PG too.
Maybe, maybe not. Our D could be terrible next year. We just came in last place for Pete's sake and our best players were playing pretty good hockey. There's good reason to believe that we could crash next season as well.
And any plan that includes counting on Markov to be healthy should be ripped to shreds, burned, buried and then pissed on. We've been down that road for three years now. Are we going to keep playing Charlie Brown to Markov's knee? How many times do you have to smack on the ground before you realize there's a good chance that the football is going to be pulled away at the last second?
The fact that he's a smurf is secondary to the fact that it makes no sense to get him now anyway as we're not at that stage yet.
As for Parise's size, we don't just have smurfs... we have two midgets. It makes sense to get some size to balance it out. We don't need to add a UFA now. Makes a hell of a lot more sense to play the year out and make evaluations next season and go from there. Just because Parise is the best forward out there now doesn't mean that he makes sense to go after. Other forwards will be available later next year and next deadline and next summer... Why do you want us to continue acting out of a sense of desperation with more reactionary moves?
We should be looking at younger prospects to invest in. Go after Kyle Turris, JVRD types. No, they aren't as established as Parise and they may not have the same upside (and might even be busts) but they're younger and we can build and develop them along with what we have. Makes more sense to do it that way and then invest in the UFA market down the road.
In my humble opinion last place with a -2 real goal differential means a lot less than last place normally does. Its a situation that literally has no precedent in the modern NHL.
And it only seems like the team's best players had good years because every other one was either traded or injured. Get a Parise and you recent the top nine to a better level than the one that started the year (and played excellently for the early stretch). Fix the relatively minor holes on the defense and then they are set, they basically only need one slightly better than NHL average body back there.
And any plan that includes counting on Markov to be healthy should be ripped to shreds, burned, buried and then pissed on. We've been down that road for three years now. Are we going to keep playing Charlie Brown to Markov's knee? How many times do you have to smack on the ground before you realize there's a good chance that the football is going to be pulled away at the last second?
Very funny stuff. I'd still consider Markov as "in" if the medical guys say so. Call me stupid. I can handle it
Plekanec and Gionta + draft pick. If the draft pick isn't expected to be top 6 NHL ready, then sign a short term top 6 forward for a year or two. Ray Whitney could fit that bill. I doubt anyone is going to be offering a 40 year old more than a two year deal. He's patch work, but given the fact that there's really only one top notch UFA available (Parise) for whom Montreal would be but one of many options, then a short term fix with a quality player may be the best route to take.
In any case, with Gionta's return, the Canadiens already have 5 bonafide top 6 forwards. With the draft pick, that could possibly rise to the 6 needed. The sorry situation of having only 2 top 6 wingers will be taken care of regardless of whom takes the reins as the new GM.
Line combinations are always subject to change. If Plekanec's line doesn't gel next season-whomever his wingers are-then the DD line needs to be split up. I'd rather not see that given how well that line performed, but if circumstances dictate that is must be, then so be it.
Signing him makes us 80% smurf in the top 6 again. I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense from that standpoint, nevermind the fact that adding him in no way makes us contenders with the D that we have now.
i'm all for improving the grit/toughness in our lineup, but are you telling me it wouldn't "make sense" to land Crosby or Datsyuk either?
Parise is an elite, game-changing level talent, his size is irrelevant.
comparing him (or his potential impact) to the likes of Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri makes no sense.
Adding Parise to ours (or any) lineup, immediately makes them much better.
besides that point, if we were to add him alone, we'd have:
MaxPac-DD-Cole
Parise - Pleks - Gionta/Bourque
even with Gionta, that's an elite level top 6 capable of playing/matching up with any team.
can't forget that Parise, like Plekanec, is very good defensively, and plays with the same kind of drive as a guy like Gionta.
being smallish doesn't impact his effectiveness, and adding him wouldn't be a return to "smurf hockey", imo.
we need to improve our defense regardless of what we do up front, but imo if Markov is healthy and gives us a bit more than what we saw to close out the season (which he should, with an extra 6 months of strengthening/recovery), all we really need is to jettison Kaberle and add 1 gritty top-4 player for our defense to be in excellent shape.
Very funny stuff. I'd still consider Markov as "in" if the medical guys say so. Call me stupid. I can handle it
