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Old
04-08-2012, 04:28 PM
  #26
Jabroni
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
The NHL has the same problem with Crosby, that they had around Mario. You just can't build around a ***** in a sport like hockey.

They tried and tried and tried to group Mario with the Messier and the Gretzky in the early 90's as the people who were growing the sport. And yes, Mario grew the sport in the Ohio and Pennsylvania area (whoopdy doo). But when you look at the major media markets, putting hockey on the front line, Mario just wasn't in the same league.

The league wants Crosby to be their go-to guy. But it's not happening, and deep down, they know it.
Was Gretzky a whiner?

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04-08-2012, 04:54 PM
  #27
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Both Gretzky and Messier knew how to work on ice officials--no question about that and Messier got away with a lot of cheap shots and dangerous plays. OTOH Messier could and would throw the gloves down and usually fought very well--like Iginla. Crosby occasionally will drop the gloves but he's not a good fighter and Malkin like Ovechkin (another dirty player) won't do it at all. You know you got someone bad and they're coming after you--you give them a chance. That's Messier--Ovechkin, Malkin skate away and let their teammates face the music. Some kudos here to Kovalchuk--I don't want to be picking on Russians--who will drop the gloves and is not a dirty player.

As far as players being whiners--nobody touches Mario in that regard. Great player. Never liked him. Either on or off the ice. I think he's a sanctimonious bag of ****. He's used to the NHL bowing down to him and that's part of the problem--not just Bettman but even before Bettman. Nobody has ever put him in his place and so he thinks he's better than everyone--which is why he can write that junk about the Islanders picking on his team last year--or about how dirty other teams are while he hypocritically employs Matt Cooke. He can be critical about other players and teams but self critical he is not.

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04-08-2012, 05:16 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Both Gretzky and Messier knew how to work on ice officials--no question about that and Messier got away with a lot of cheap shots and dangerous plays. OTOH Messier could and would throw the gloves down and usually fought very well--like Iginla. Crosby occasionally will drop the gloves but he's not a good fighter and Malkin like Ovechkin (another dirty player) won't do it at all. You know you got someone bad and they're coming after you--you give them a chance. That's Messier--Ovechkin, Malkin skate away and let their teammates face the music. Some kudos here to Kovalchuk--I don't want to be picking on Russians--who will drop the gloves and is not a dirty player.
Occasionally? Crosby has fought like 2? MAYBE 3 times, EVER. He has triple the amount of seasons played than fights

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04-08-2012, 05:38 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FromTheSide View Post
Occasionally? Crosby has fought like 2? MAYBE 3 times, EVER. He has triple the amount of seasons played than fights
Hockeyfights.com

Crosby has 5. Malkin 2. Ovechkin 3.

Mostly none of them back up much of the **** they start. Well--they're stars. Crosby is annoying--he whines a lot about calls, he hacks and whacks a lot. The thing with Schenn the other night as an example. The return crosscheck from Schenn premeditated by Crosby but the focus is on Crosby the superstar--putting up the points--when it shifts to the giving and taking of jabs, slashes and crosschecks the focus becomes all about Sid the victim. That being said--he's not really a dirty player IMO.

Ovechkin is a head hunter. Like Phaneuf. Like Kronwall. Malkin is a master of the slewfoot. I think anyway there's a difference here because I think they are players who will at times try to injure other players. I wouldn't call Malkin a whiner like I would Sid. But I do think Malkin is a dirty player--which is worse.

NHL has different standards for superstars. Messier walked away from a number of possible suspensions because of who he was. Malkin has done the same. It took a number of incidents before the league suspended Ovechkin. NHL has marketed Crosby's puss ever since he came into the league. NHL has an interest in Penguins doing very well. IMO--they get favored treatment. Brooks seems to think so too.

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04-08-2012, 05:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Was Gretzky a whiner?
Admitedly, he started to get the reputation in his younger years. But I also think he did a good job of transforming himself, and as a result, the respect started to follow.

With that said, I never felt that Mario ever truly got it. You get the sense when you talk to his peers and those around the sport. He simply isn't held in the same reverence as Messier and Gretzky. No one ever really comes out and says it, but it tends to be quietly understood.

Unfortunately, with a guy like Crosby, it becomes all too obvious that, in a lot of ways, he is a lot like his mentor.

As for the NHL's interest in Pittsburgh, it's none existant. From a marketing standpoint, Pittsburgh simply doesn't matter. No one outside of Pittsburgh and Eastern Ohio gives two thoughts about the city. In football they matter because there's a generation of fans that grew up rooting for whoever happened to be hot when they were in their youth. In hockey,they exist because of someone's politicing and nothing more. The NHL could care less if they were in Kansas City, Pittsburgh or Las Vegas.

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Old
04-08-2012, 06:03 PM
  #31
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Have to agree about Mario and Crosby they have all the talent in the world. They feel as if they deserve respect just for that, which isn't true respect is earned. That's why I like Stamkos so much more than Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin.

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04-08-2012, 06:23 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ice Hockey View Post
anyone feel like brooskie was wasted and high on pills when he wrote that article? i'm not saying i don't agree... i do, but there's some misspelled words and very awkward sentences.
I think he was tied up in Torts' basement and JT himself wrote it.

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04-08-2012, 06:44 PM
  #33
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Great read by Brooks, like I've always said. Love him as a writer, hate when he gets into the speculation business because he sometimes flies off the handle.

Love seeing this article, hopefully everyone around the league is reading it and the league is put on the spot about this. I wish there was a governing body over all sports that would put people like Bettman in his place and stop this crap. Hockey is becoming almost unenjoyable to watch because of the ******** favoritism the Penguins get.

Let's not forget about the Capitals, they're another team that benefits from this. Not nearly as much, but they get it. Ovechkin defines the term "REPEAT OFFENDER" when it comes to leaving his feet and hitting people, and finally just got slapped with a "notable" (3 games is a joke, honestly) suspension when he hit Michalek.

Some coincidence...

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Old
04-08-2012, 06:51 PM
  #34
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It's funny how the Pens fans have their version of this thread in which they compare their teams PIM to Rangers, Flyers, Bruins, etc... when it's the stuff they get away with that ISNT called on them which matters most and proves the point of everyone's complaints.

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04-08-2012, 06:52 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by KingLundqvistXXX View Post
It's funny how the Pens fans have their version of this thread in which they compare their teams PIM to Rangers, Flyers, Bruins, etc... when it's the stuff they get away with that ISNT called on them which matters most and proves the point of everyone's complaints.
I'm not even reading anything on the Penguins board. Too many facepalmimg moments to sort through.

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Old
04-08-2012, 07:59 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Was Gretzky a whiner?
Early in his career he was. He got away from being one a couple of years into his career.

Gretzky also never played in traffic, so he neber hacked, slashed & cross checked people the way Crosby has done & continues to do & get's away with it.

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Old
04-08-2012, 09:22 PM
  #37
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Couldn't agree more. Bettman needs to go. This is the third time in one week he's fined someone for pointing out his authoritative nature and protection of the Penguins.

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Old
04-08-2012, 09:28 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
As for the NHL's interest in Pittsburgh, it's none existant. From a marketing standpoint, Pittsburgh simply doesn't matter. No one outside of Pittsburgh and Eastern Ohio gives two thoughts about the city. In football they matter because there's a generation of fans that grew up rooting for whoever happened to be hot when they were in their youth. In hockey,they exist because of someone's politicing and nothing more. The NHL could care less if they were in Kansas City, Pittsburgh or Las Vegas.
I agree there is no added interest in Pittsburgh, however from a marketing stand point, there is high value in that region. Granted not what the League targets, that being casual fans. Pittsburgh market has a high amount of avid fans. They have the highest RSN (regional sports network) rating among all NHL teams. They have a very deep rooted fan base.

I'll add, that being said, Crosby is the most marketable asset the League has and obviously leverages nationally. That IS an interest, however I do not believe it would effect any disciplinary decisions to do with him or the Penguins. People in those positions are of high integrity.

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Old
04-08-2012, 09:40 PM
  #39
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Man that main board thread is brutal. One non-pens fan makes a comment, and is immediately bombarded by 10+ replies from posters with avatars of grown men with their shirts off.

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04-08-2012, 09:56 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
I agree there is no added interest in Pittsburgh, however from a marketing stand point, there is high value in that region. Granted not what the League targets, that being casual fans. Pittsburgh market has a high amount of avid fans. They have the highest RSN (regional sports network) rating among all NHL teams. They have a very deep rooted fan base.

I'll add, that being said, Crosby is the most marketable asset the League has and obviously leverages nationally. That IS an interest, however I do not believe it would effect any disciplinary decisions to do with him or the Penguins. People in those positions are of high integrity.
im gonna disagree with you on some points here.

1) Crosby is the the one they choose to market the most. there are many other players that could be marketed just as much nationally. not just in their area.

2) "people in those positions are of high integrity". really? do you remember that fiasco last year with Colin Campbell and his emails? not only that, but if Bettman has so much integrity, how is it he keeps getting called out by so many coaches, players, fans, etc? you must be a Pens fan.

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Old
04-08-2012, 10:42 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
I agree there is no added interest in Pittsburgh, however from a marketing stand point, there is high value in that region. Granted not what the League targets, that being casual fans. Pittsburgh market has a high amount of avid fans. They have the highest RSN (regional sports network) rating among all NHL teams. They have a very deep rooted fan base.

I'll add, that being said, Crosby is the most marketable asset the League has and obviously leverages nationally. That IS an interest, however I do not believe it would effect any disciplinary decisions to do with him or the Penguins. People in those positions are of high integrity.
Deep rooted fan base that allowed the team to come this close to moving to KC.
Tons of teams lose, play in bad arenas or just flat out suck. Fans still support their team.

Pitt damn near lost their team less than a decade after winning two cups.

That's not deep rooted in my opinion. Fair weather or bandwagon? Maybe. But not deep rooted.

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04-08-2012, 10:58 PM
  #42
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The NHL has been so bad that they've got Brooksie coming to the defense of Torts...
Yeah, its becoming a love hate relationship!

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Old
04-08-2012, 11:06 PM
  #43
in the hall
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im gonna disagree with you on some points here.

1) Crosby is the the one they choose to market the most. there are many other players that could be marketed just as much nationally. not just in their area.

2) "people in those positions are of high integrity". really? do you remember that fiasco last year with Colin Campbell and his emails? not only that, but if Bettman has so much integrity, how is it he keeps getting called out by so many coaches, players, fans, etc? you must be a Pens fan.
1. You're right there are, and they do market many other players. Bottom line Crosby is one of them, and their most marketable to casual fans because he is mostly recognized among them. National promotion targets casual fans.

2. I'm a Rangers fan.

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04-08-2012, 11:07 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Deep rooted fan base that allowed the team to come this close to moving to KC.
Tons of teams lose, play in bad arenas or just flat out suck. Fans still support their team.

Pitt damn near lost their team less than a decade after winning two cups.

That's not deep rooted in my opinion. Fair weather or bandwagon? Maybe. But not deep rooted.
Definitely fair weather.

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04-08-2012, 11:09 PM
  #45
in the hall
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Deep rooted fan base that allowed the team to come this close to moving to KC.
Tons of teams lose, play in bad arenas or just flat out suck. Fans still support their team.

Pitt damn near lost their team less than a decade after winning two cups.

That's not deep rooted in my opinion. Fair weather or bandwagon? Maybe. But not deep rooted.
I'll reference again, Pittsburgh has higher RSN ratings than any other club in the NHL. They're also at top the league in attendance, sponsorship and merch sold.

I don't know for sure but I'd venture to guess they almost moved because they did not have an adequate arena to secure sponsorship dollars and keep their businesses alive.

That said fairweather fans or bandwagon fans, maybe. Either way they have a big fan base.

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04-08-2012, 11:27 PM
  #46
Riche16
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
I'll reference again, Pittsburgh has higher RSN ratings than any other club in the NHL. They're also at top the league in attendance, sponsorship and merch sold.

I don't know for sure but I'd venture to guess they almost moved because they did not have an adequate arena to secure sponsorship dollars and keep their businesses alive.

That said fairweather fans or bandwagon fans, maybe. Either way they have a big fan base.
I'm not disputing their current RSN standing. ROOT may be the highest rated, or most viewed in the area, or per capita... I work in TV but don't know what numbers you're referencing. They fill the stands and watch... At the moment. They did in 1991 and 1992 also. Then they nearly moved to Kansas City & Mario was in the mix. Not some mean owner twisting his mustache like he just tied a damsel to a railroad track.

It's perspective and when their team is down they jump ship like so many rats.

I've been going to NYR games since 1987 and I can't remember them ever threatening to leave. Same for the Leafs fans, Montreal, Boston, Detroit, and even Philly just so you don't think it's an original six thing.

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Old
04-09-2012, 02:02 AM
  #47
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Great read Brooksie

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Old
04-09-2012, 02:14 AM
  #48
eco's bones
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
I'll reference again, Pittsburgh has higher RSN ratings than any other club in the NHL. They're also at top the league in attendance, sponsorship and merch sold.

I don't know for sure but I'd venture to guess they almost moved because they did not have an adequate arena to secure sponsorship dollars and keep their businesses alive.

That said fairweather fans or bandwagon fans, maybe. Either way they have a big fan base.
Islanders use to stuff their arena with fans too--when they were a winning franchise. They were a hot ticket and sold tons of merchandise too. What you see now from their fans is more of a real hardcore base that's inured to losing but it's not nearly enough to fill their rink game in game out.

OTOH the Pittsburgh area is turning out lots of players these days including J.T. Miller.

But Penguins start losing again--I expect their attendance is going to flop. Rangers, Bruins, Leafs, Canadiens, Flyers etc. are always going to sell out win or lose.

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Old
04-09-2012, 05:44 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
Crosby is the most marketable asset the League has and obviously leverages nationally.
Highly highly highly disagree...

He's simply the tool the league CHOSE to market the hell out of. He does nothing more than anybody else to market the league... in fact Lundqvist, Ovechkin, Stamkos... even Corey Perry brings much more in way of personality and something "marketable". Crosby is a drone. He's an exceptionally boring interview and couldn't sell water in a desert.

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Old
04-09-2012, 05:49 AM
  #50
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I can name 20 players more suited to be the face of the NHL.

Lundqvist, Ovechkin, Giroux, Kopitar, Stamkos, Toews, Karlsson... Just to name a few.

Crosby is just a spoiled brat

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