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Old
04-02-2012, 01:08 PM
  #51
newfr4u
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i see, good luck.

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04-08-2012, 09:34 PM
  #52
Jtown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Not really.

I started SS in late January, got in a few weeks, ran out of weight for my DL's (at 140 pounds or so), then a week later got a mild concussion in hockey and then a sinus infection that kept me out a month.

So two weeks ago I did a full "reset" on my weights and I'm still doing the initial 10 pounds per workout jumps.

Right now I'm at:

Squat - 125
OH Press - 50
DL - 130
Bench - 95

My 5RM at my best were about:

Squat - 150
OH Press - 70?
DL - 155
Bench - 110

But like I said I only got a few weeks into the program, so I wasn't really stalling out on those weights. And this is the first time I've ever actually lifted seriously, so I have very little experience outside of a few months in high school.

I'm hoping that, since I'm not trying to "diet" anymore but eating lots of clean food with additional protein, I can make those big initial gains Rippetoe talks about. My limiting factors thus far have been right knee pain on squats above 140 and right shoulder pain on bench above 100. And I do know my form is not correct, hence trying to get a camera to take video so I can see what I'm doing wrong.
Jarick. What is your age/ sex Height/ Weight /Playing Level/ and Workout goals....are you lifting to improve overall fitness or for specific sport performance?

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04-09-2012, 11:16 AM
  #53
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28, male, 5'8, 200, C-level rec hockey. Just trying to get in better shape, add muscle, drop fat, increase strength for hockey, generally be healthier.

I'm up to 155 squat, 75 OH press, 160 deadlift, 115 bench, and started power cleans last week at 80 pounds. Still adding 10 pounds per lift per session, except deadlifts are 20 pounds.

My squat is much better now, no pain. Bench is terrible though and I have no upper body strength. Cleans, OH press feel good. Deadlift just feels 100x better sumo than regular so I'm probably going to stick with that.

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04-09-2012, 01:02 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
28, male, 5'8, 200, C-level rec hockey. Just trying to get in better shape, add muscle, drop fat, increase strength for hockey, generally be healthier.

I'm up to 155 squat, 75 OH press, 160 deadlift, 115 bench, and started power cleans last week at 80 pounds. Still adding 10 pounds per lift per session, except deadlifts are 20 pounds.

My squat is much better now, no pain. Bench is terrible though and I have no upper body strength. Cleans, OH press feel good. Deadlift just feels 100x better sumo than regular so I'm probably going to stick with that.
Adding muscle dropping fat is pretty difficult. You have competing substrates at work there. If you are looking to add mass you are getting started on the big 4. Cleans, bench, squat and deadlift. What I would do if you are serious about adding some muscle is a 3 day a week program. Mon Wed Fri 3 sets 10 reps to failure. Fail on each set. Allow 2 minutes rest to restore about 95 percent of your phosphocreatine levels then another set. What i personally do is drop sets, to failure. This is going to be extremely taxing on your body. Make sure you fuel properly. If you are looking to just focus on a bulk definetly do a carb protein pwo as well as carbs before and during. Personally im cutting so i do no carb diet.. This type of lifting is etremely taxing with that type of diet but the results speak for themselves.

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04-10-2012, 10:19 AM
  #55
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I should say what I'm doing now specifically is Rippetoe's Starting Strength 3x a week exactly as he describes. I'm trying to hold body fat steady while adding muscle mass and getting my lift technique down and increasing them to respectable levels. Diet is fairly clean M-F although I do have some beers on the weekend. I've been adding in a couple glasses of milk per day when hungry and I'm eating way more food as I've been a bottomless pit.

So far this year I have added about 7 pounds of muscle and lost about 2 pounds of fat. That's taking average body weights and waist measurements. Or more specifically, I went from 199.2 pounds with a 42.0" waist to 204.4 pounds with a 41.5" waist.

Once I start to plateau in terms of strength, I'll likely drop to a 500-cal/day deficit eating cleaner food and dropping to lifting 2x per week without adding weights each workout, in order to maintain the muscle mass (although I may lose some strength, but it should be easily offset by the gains I'm making now). And about that time summer hockey will start up so I should be doing stuff on the ice 1-2x per week as well.

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04-10-2012, 02:50 PM
  #56
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Hey Jarick,

Nice to see someone else doing the Starting Strength program. I'm trying to do it, too, but I can't do all the exercises because I pulled my groin pretty bad. No squats and limited deadlifts. Yes, I know that omitting squats isn't really Starting Strength, but that's the best I can do.

Like you, I'm convinced that my bench press has the worst technique out of all the lifts. I feel like I'm pushing the bar at an angle sometimes and I have trouble keeping the bar moving in a smooth straight line. I find it easier to push the bar straight up if I look directly up at the ceiling (not at an angle, if that makes sense).

Do you have weightlifting shoes? That's a really important piece of equipment to have.

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04-10-2012, 03:45 PM
  #57
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My bench is just all kinds of terrible. There's just no strength at all. Constantly feel like I'm going to drop the weight and that's barely at 100 pounds. I put some plates under my feet (I'm short) and that seemed to help some but it's going to be a struggle to get my technique down for a few weeks at least. But my bench has always sucked and I have pretty much no pec muscles (lots of triceps, and oddly I never feel the bench in my chest itself, just arms and shoulders).

I'm wearing Chucks, should work fine for now.

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04-10-2012, 04:15 PM
  #58
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I'm no expert, but here are a couple ideas. Have you tried working on your bench press technique at lower weight? Something not ridiculously easy but that feels only moderately heavy? The other thing that I try to remember when I do the bench press, is to suck in my stomach, lift the chest, and arch my back. The result is that my torso is stiff and it's easier to push against, not to mention safer (to avoid injury). Anyways, didn't mean to meddle. Good luck with the bench.

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04-10-2012, 04:19 PM
  #59
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Yeah I've been working on the low back arch, tilt the chest, etc. Helps a bit but damn am I weak. I might need to add more height under my feet still.

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04-10-2012, 06:47 PM
  #60
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one thing to think about when you are just starting out on the bench, is that the arch is not what makes it a mechanically efficient movement. tightness in the lower/mid is important for sure, but i don't think it would prevent you from benching above 100 lbs. it's worthwhile to think about tightness in the upper back/shoulders.

the main thing that makes the bench efficient, is pushing your humerus bone deep into the glenohumeral joint. once you achieve the effect that the end of the humerus is held tightly by the rotator cuff, all the press forces acting on the humerus (pecs and triceps) will directly translate into moving the arm and hence the bar. if you don't achieve tightness in your rotator cuff, the pressing forces will likely move the shoulder end of the humerus and thus you are losing power simply due to mechanical inefficiency. think of it as a bearing in your bike. you want it as tight as possible. if it's loose even a little bit you are losing power.



the cue that worked for me is pull your shoulder blades together. that really does the bulk of the work as far as firmly setting the humerus against the labrum, because there are two big muscles acting on it (one under the shoulder blade, and one over it). sometimes you may need to engage the traps to get a better effect. play around with it. see what works.

here is an anatomical video for reference.
http://video.about.com/orthopedics/A...f-Shoulder.htm


Last edited by newfr4u: 04-10-2012 at 06:52 PM.
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04-10-2012, 07:42 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
My bench is just all kinds of terrible. There's just no strength at all. Constantly feel like I'm going to drop the weight and that's barely at 100 pounds. I put some plates under my feet (I'm short) and that seemed to help some but it's going to be a struggle to get my technique down for a few weeks at least. But my bench has always sucked and I have pretty much no pec muscles (lots of triceps, and oddly I never feel the bench in my chest itself, just arms and shoulders).

I'm wearing Chucks, should work fine for now.
I'd suggest going from barbell bench to dumbbells... it will help get your stabilizer muscles stronger, which in return will help your benching results overall; also it will help to make sure both sides are being worked evenly (so that when you do barbell the bar wont be lop sided...)

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04-11-2012, 11:17 AM
  #62
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Thanks new, I'll try that tonight when benching. I know from the squat it's a matter of visualizing the movement and where the muscles/joints should be, and then it kind of "clicks".

When I was first trying to bench a few months back, I was going up too high and down too low. Limiting that range helped keep the shoulder joint more steady, which cut down on the pain for the most part. That shoulder/joint cue might work well (kind of like pulling the shoulders in on pull ups).

I was going to switch to dumbbells but I really want to stick with the Rippetoe program for the time being, especially since it's bad technique causing it that needs to be fixed anyway.

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04-11-2012, 01:19 PM
  #63
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dumbbell bench is a great exercise, but it's harder to progressively load it, because (1) it's harder, and (2) dumbbells usually come in 5 lbs increments, which can be a bit too much to increase every workout.

without some solid bench strength, it's also easier to hurt yourself with dumbbells that are too heavy, than with a barbell. spotting is way easier with the bar.

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04-12-2012, 11:08 AM
  #64
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My bench was better last night. I pulled the shoulders in more and went back to pushing off my toes instead of flat feet. That got me more angle for my chest and was able to be more solid pushing off the bench. Felt it more in my pecs too. I may have to make 3-4" platforms for my feet but a lot of lifters seem to push off the toes just fine so I'll stick with it for now.

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04-13-2012, 10:04 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Thanks new, I'll try that tonight when benching. I know from the squat it's a matter of visualizing the movement and where the muscles/joints should be, and then it kind of "clicks".

When I was first trying to bench a few months back, I was going up too high and down too low. Limiting that range helped keep the shoulder joint more steady, which cut down on the pain for the most part. That shoulder/joint cue might work well (kind of like pulling the shoulders in on pull ups).

I was going to switch to dumbbells but I really want to stick with the Rippetoe program for the time being, especially since it's bad technique causing it that needs to be fixed anyway.
You're better off sticking with Rippetoe's program than taking advice from random message board posters. Even if someone knows what they're talking about, which they usually don't, there's still very little chance they know as much as Rippetoe about getting someone strong.

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04-13-2012, 10:45 AM
  #66
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I am doing Rippetoe's program, just getting advice on my form.

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04-13-2012, 01:29 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
dumbbell bench is a great exercise, but it's harder to progressively load it, because (1) it's harder, and (2) dumbbells usually come in 5 lbs increments, which can be a bit too much to increase every workout.

without some solid bench strength, it's also easier to hurt yourself with dumbbells that are too heavy, than with a barbell. spotting is way easier with the bar.
I'm pretty sure that Rippetoe himself, in the Starting Strength book, says not to do dumbbell presses when you're starting out. The whole Starting Strength program is done with barbells. I think the reason is because it's much easier to do the lifts with correct technique if you use barbells, as opposed to dumbbells.

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04-13-2012, 02:02 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by qmechanic View Post
I'm pretty sure that Rippetoe himself, in the Starting Strength book, says not to do dumbbell presses when you're starting out. The whole Starting Strength program is done with barbells. I think the reason is because it's much easier to do the lifts with correct technique if you use barbells, as opposed to dumbbells.
yes, i am sure Rippetoe says that and I agree that doing only the SS lifts until you progress past novice is the way to go for reasons i've outlined, which are the same reasons as Rippetoe's.

but as a lift, the dumbbell press is great, as opposed to something completely useless like the dumbbell curl.

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04-13-2012, 02:07 PM
  #69
Jarick
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Per the book, he uses barbell because it's a barbell program, easier to micro-load, and easier to get the weights into position. But he does seem to like the dumbbell version. It's just not part of the program.

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04-14-2012, 12:30 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
as opposed to something completely useless like the dumbbell curl.
Could you explain further?

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04-14-2012, 02:26 PM
  #71
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I'm guessing what he's trying to say is that bicep curls have no practical use compared to a press.

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04-15-2012, 01:17 AM
  #72
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Jarick is right. humans just don't pick up anything heavy using only their arms, and the curl really only trains a few of the arm muscles anyway. it's way more of an isolation lift that's really only useful to bodybuilders.

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04-15-2012, 08:38 AM
  #73
Marotte Marauder
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Drop your bench presses and switch to dips. Chin on chest and lean forward to engage more pec muscle.

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04-15-2012, 10:35 AM
  #74
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Skimmed through the thread. Some good advice. Some regurgitation of standard internet dogma.* Some bad advice. I am just going to throw out some links for everyone and give my two cents.

A program that is relatively popular these days is Jim Wendler's "5/3/1". It is a simple template that will likely garner results without overloading the body. Even if you do not follow his strength routine, I highly recommend the e-book for its great point by point explanation of the lifts.** Wendler prescribes one lift a day following a 5/3/1 template and two accessory lifts. This program is great because it is easy to adjust the volume if you are sore/tired/playing hockey that day. Just cut out the accessory lifts. The e-book contains detailed options for the accessory work, as well as a discussion of when to do additional conditioning exercises.

Wendler's 5/3/1 is not a be all end all program. While many on the internet have taken it as the second coming of starting strength, others have been more critical. For instance, in describing his programming methodology for crossfit, Rudy Neilson, provides a dissenting opinion on 5/3/1 and explains why he does not program deadlifts.

Quote:
Recently I programmed a Clean & Jerk cycle with a different goal in mind. We had a group of about 15 folks [...] who started a 12 week Wendler cycle, and I decided I wanted to see how big of a difference a specific PL cycle vs. a specific “Limited Conjugate” cycle made. To throw even more excitement into the test, I decided to try something I’d been wanting to do for a while, which was program ZERO Deadlifts, only Power Cleans and Cleans for pulling off the floor and heavy Back Squats for skeletal loading.

We tested 61 people at the end of the concurrent cycles. Of the 12 Wendlers that tested the average PR was just under 18# with – in my opinion – the numbers being skewed a bit by a couple 80+ pound PRs from two people who had rarely Deadlifted before the initial test (one of which who gained nearly 15# during the cycle). There were SIX of the 5/3/1 group who UN-PR’d, and a few others who tested the exact same. Of the “Limited Conjugate” group EVERY SINGLE PERSON PR’d by an average of 40# on the men’s side and 18# on the women’s side.
Instead his programing relies on a modified version of the "Hatch Squat" routine and Louie Simmons "Conjugate System". Neilsion prescribes high bar and low bar back squats while incorporating the olympic lifts as accessory work.*** I think this is a novel approach as deadlifting likely exhausts the body and central nervous system more than any other lift.

With some basic understanding of these two systems, I could see Neilson's programming methodology working quite well for sports other than crossfit. For hockey, a traditional hatch squat routine combined with single leg exercises - rear elevated split squat, single leg Romanian deadlift, reverse lunges - and variations of the clean - power cleans, hang power cleans, regular cleans, and clean pulls - as accessory work would provide a solid base for both power and injury prevention. Mike Boyle argues athletes should focus on single leg work and I tend to agree. However, I think that the benefits of traditional squat variations, especially for the early to intermediate athlete cannot be overlooked. Bilateral lifts address the greatest weakness of weekendwarriors: weakness itself. Many non-professional athletes are weak. The spinal loading of the squat, combined with proper diet and sleep, produces the greatest CNS response.

Finally, there is the tried and true Westside Barbell for Skinny ******** program by Joe DeFranco. DeFranco combines some of the ideas of Simmons with his own athletic programming and provides an off-season routine that will likely benefit most posters here. While there are signicant shortcomings of the program and DeFranco has been criticized for some of his views, WSB4SB is simple enough to follow and incorporates bilateral and unilateral movements with plyometric training. Building yourself a routine using DeFranco's philosophy (and making sure you incorporate single leg exercises) will be the easiest way to get sport-specific results, build strength, and prevent injury.

*Basically the abbreviated version of Rippetoe's Staring Strength that everyone seems to love.
** If you honestly cannot not afford it, be resourceful. However, the practicality of explanations of the basic powerlifting lifts trumps those found in Starting Strength 2nd Edition.
*** Breaking down the various squats


Last edited by BaconStrips: 04-15-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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Old
04-15-2012, 11:52 AM
  #75
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Seems a bit dodgy taking health advice froma dude named "Bacon Strips".

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