I hope the new GM will do everything in his power to trade him... we don't need these kind of players.
Goal scorers with size? If we deal him we deal him, but I really wouldn't mind seeing what he could do playing with DD and Cole after an offseason of conditioning and head clearing....
Goal scorers with size? If we deal him we deal him, but I really wouldn't mind seeing what he could do playing with DD and Cole after an offseason of conditioning and head clearing....
I think moving Cole with Pleks makes more sense as he is more of a veteran and DD and Max have a long history. But intriguing thought though.
I think moving Cole with Pleks makes more sense as he is more of a veteran and DD and Max have a long history. But intriguing thought though.
Wow - the last thing I'd do out of the gate next year is bust up the only line that produced last year! No need at all to split up DD-Cole-Patches. Plenty of other pieces to move around looking for the right combination.
Since he has a NTC, we'll see what happens to him but going into this season he had back to back to back 20+ goal seasons and just missed another one this season despite looking like he'd rather be fishing then playing hockey. That said he was brutal here, hope it was something off ice related and that he gets his **** together for next season.
Bourque was looking good alongside Darche (just before Darche's injury) and Plekanec; they were a solid shutdown line. Assuming reinforcement on Plekanec's wings, I think he would look good with Moen and Eller on our 3rd line (shut down line) next season.
If our first pick in the upcoming draft is not NHL ready and/or the quest (UFA/trade) for a new winger to play on Plekanec's line is a failure, I would not be against the following top2 lines:
Can you imagine Bourque giving a half-hearted effort while playing alongside Desharnais and Cole? I can't!
Since 2008-09, 6'2" 211 pnds Bourque scored 21 (in 58 games played), 27, 27 and 18 goals. He did not become useless in 30 games! People in here (and in general) are tough and have weird expectations regarding secondary scoring: by definition, a 20 something goals scorer is streaky.
Because (1) Bourque was genuinely pissed about his performance in Montreal, (2) his goals scoring history, (3) he is not afraid, contrary to Cammalleri, of the heavy circulation, I expect a better contribution from Bourque next season. Our next coach will sure need to do a better job than Cunneyworth in coping with his inability to compete at a high level regularly but I think it is doable.
Btw... can someone enlighten me regarding Bourque's alleged, by the OP, prima donna attitude? I did not see that from him.
PS Bourque's cap hit is 3,3M$. His salary for the remaining 4 years of his contract will be: 3M$, 4M$, 2,5M$ and 2,5M$.
Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 04-09-2012 at 10:44 AM.
too early to give up on him .
i think hes gonna be good for us next year when theres actually a reason to try for and will be a solid 2nd liner or very good 3rd liner he had a lot of chances and some bad luck since coming over.
Bourque was looking good alongside Darche (just before Darche's injury) and Plekanec; they were a solid shutdown line. Assuming reinforcement on Plekanec's wings, I think he would look good with Moen and Eller on our 3rd line (shut down line) next season.
If our first pick in the upcoming draft is not NHL ready and/or the quest (UFA/trade) for a new winger to play on Plekanec's line is a failure, I would not be against the following top2 lines:
Can you imagine Bourque giving a half-hearted effort while playing alongside Desharnais and Cole? I can't!
Since 2008-09, 6'2" 211 pnds Bourque scored 21 (in 58 games played), 27, 27 and 18 goals. He did not become useless in 30 games! People in here (and in general) are tough and have weird expectations regarding secondary scoring: by definition, a 20 something goals scorer is streaky.
Because (1) Bourque was genuinely pissed about his performance in Montreal, (2) his goals scoring history, (3) he is not afraid, contrary to Cammalleri, of the heavy circulation, I expect a better contribution from Bourque next season. Our next coach will sure need to do a better job than Cunneyworth in coping with his inability to compete at a high level regularly but I think it is doable.
Btw... can someone enlighten me regarding Bourque's alleged, by the OP, prima donna attitude? I did not see that from him.
PS Bourque's cap hit is 3,3M$. His salary for the remaining 4 years of his contract will be: 3M$, 4M$, 2,5M$ and 2,5M$.
I agree with you.
Bourque's carreer can be salvaged under a new head coach. Let's give him a chance.
If by mid-season next year he is still the same unproductive player, then trade him. A 3,3 milion cap hit is not the end of the world.
By now, Larry Carrière knows him very well. If Bourque is traded in the off season, it will be because carrière would have seen something wrong with him and unfixable.
As soon as you get a guy who *needs* the push, it's trouble to begin with. Whether he ultimately gets a push or not, sooner or later it will come back to haunt us.
He's waay more of a tease than AK was, for example. (Because, well... he has done NOTHING). At least even when AK was in a funk you got the sense he *should* be doing something, that he was *capable* of doing something. With Bourque... wow, I don't even see that much to hope for.
Anyway, I don't see us being lucky enough to move him, so I'll just have to hope he comes in re-focused, and indeed that our new coach finds some trick to motivate him, and he has a decent season, or at least decent enough that our new GM can eventually find a taker.
Going to hold onto my suspicions even if he does start well next year.
He'll get either a year or two here (or in Hamilton) to get his career back on track and if not buy him out. It's not ideal but it's not the end of the world, either.
However I have a weird feeling he's going to make a lot of us eat crow next year. He won't be a top line player, but a solid 3rd liner or maybe even a 2nd liner.
Bourque was looking good alongside Darche (just before Darche's injury) and Plekanec; they were a solid shutdown line. Assuming reinforcement on Plekanec's wings, I think he would look good with Moen and Eller on our 3rd line (shut down line) next season.
If our first pick in the upcoming draft is not NHL ready and/or the quest (UFA/trade) for a new winger to play on Plekanec's line is a failure, I would not be against the following top2 lines:
Can you imagine Bourque giving a half-hearted effort while playing alongside Desharnais and Cole? I can't!
Since 2008-09, 6'2" 211 pnds Bourque scored 21 (in 58 games played), 27, 27 and 18 goals. He did not become useless in 30 games! People in here (and in general) are tough and have weird expectations regarding secondary scoring: by definition, a 20 something goals scorer is streaky.
Because (1) Bourque was genuinely pissed about his performance in Montreal, (2) his goals scoring history, (3) he is not afraid, contrary to Cammalleri, of the heavy circulation, I expect a better contribution from Bourque next season. Our next coach will sure need to do a better job than Cunneyworth in coping with his inability to compete at a high level regularly but I think it is doable.
Btw... can someone enlighten me regarding Bourque's alleged, by the OP, prima donna attitude? I did not see that from him.
PS Bourque's cap hit is 3,3M$. His salary for the remaining 4 years of his contract will be: 3M$, 4M$, 2,5M$ and 2,5M$.
Well, the impression left after watching a guy take shifts(/games) off, take lazy/bad penalties, etc. is that he doesn't think he has to work as hard or disciplined as those around him. For some, that would come across as "prima dona".
Maybe you should watch Kelly Hrudey (who, like Ron MacLean mentions, watches a LOT of Calgary hockey) weigh in on his "attitude" just 2 months before the trade, mentioning the apology he issued to his teammates regarding his ethic/attitude:
I'm not too worried about Bourque and I'm willing to give him another chance. James Neal only had 2 goals in 27 games (playoffs included) with Pittsburgh after he was traded last year. He has 40 this year.
Goal scorers with size? If we deal him we deal him, but I really wouldn't mind seeing what he could do playing with DD and Cole after an offseason of conditioning and head clearing....
This guy does have a nasty streak but it shows up very rarely. So prototypically based on his size and scoring touch he seems like the ideal power forward, but he floats in so many games. His numbers with Calgary were not half-bad but they were in a rush to get him out of town for that consistency reason.
He has one of the weaker reps in the league. That said, horrible team this year...no motivation to compete. Maybe with a stronger culture next season, win some games, he can contribute in a secondary role where him taking nights off is not the end of the world.
The reason Bourque had such a bad +/- this season is because of his skill level and who he played against. Being placed with Plekanec meant that he continually faced the opposing top line, a role that he absolutely cannot fill. However, given a third line role with offensive opportunities, I think he will do reasonably well. Hopefully he will reach around the same points as AK46 did, but with a much better defensive game (he actually skates back every single shift).
Well, the impression left after watching a guy take shifts(/games) off, take lazy/bad penalties, etc. is that he doesn't think he has to work as hard or disciplined as those around him. For some, that would come across as "prima dona".
Maybe you should watch Kelly Hrudey (who, like Ron MacLean mentions, watches a LOT of Calgary hockey) weigh in on his "attitude" just 2 months before the trade, mentioning the apology he issued to his teammates regarding his ethic/attitude:
Thanks for the link (I just watched it) but:
(1) Is Hrudey a good analyst and a reliable journalist? Legit question here – I don't know him well. (EDIT: btw he said "he should apologise to his teammates" not "he did apologise".)
(2) If Bourque is such a lazy player how did he manage to score 27 goals during two seasons in a row before joining us?
I am not his biggest fan and I fully realise that he needs someone (line mates or coach) to light a fire under his chair from time to time but if he gives us 20 goals next season while playing on 3rd with Eller and Moen (shut down line - Bourque played that role for us alongside Darche + Plekanec and he did a good job), I'd be a happy fan.
Again: people need to realise that 20 something goals scorer are, by definition, streaky. That's why most fans include them under the label "secondary scoring".
Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 04-09-2012 at 03:19 PM.
I really wanna see Bourque have a good offseason of conditioning and then come in next year and have the chance to play with DD and Cole, with Pacioretty playing with Plekanec.
To be honest, I also believe he was out of shape this year. It looked like he had cement in his skates and his lungs gave our really quickly. He was always 1-2 steps behind the play. If he improves his conditioning he will be a solid 50 point player with 20+ goals.
Give him a real coach and let him play against less difficult matchups like he's comfortable in and see what happens. No reason not to give him a chance.
(1) Is Hrudey a good analyst and a reliable journalist? Legit question here – I don't know him well. (EDIT: btw he said "he should apologise to his teammates" not "he did apologise".)
(2) If Bourque is such a lazy player how did he manage to score 27 goals during two seasons in a row before joining us?
I am not his biggest fan and I fully realise that he needs someone (line mates or coach) to light a fire under his chair from time to time but if he gives us 20 goals next season while playing on 3rd with Eller and Moen (shut down line - Bourque played that role for us alongside Darche + Plekanec and he did a good job), I'd be a happy fan.
Again: people need to realise that 20 something goals scorer are, by definition, streaky. That's why most fans include them under the label "secondary scoring".
Many 20 goals scorers don't offer the level of play that is needed for a winning team, the problem with Bourque is his confidence. First of all he never seems to enjoy being on the ice, winning team or not, he needs a lot of care. It will all depend on whether or not the next coach or coaches will be able to help him. He obviously doesn't fit well with Plekanec. He probably needs a center that can communicate well with him. I guess it will be easier to predict when the name of the new coach will be known.
Many 20 goals scorers don't offer the level of play that is needed for a winning team, the problem with Bourque is his confidence. First of all he never seems to enjoy being on the ice, winning team or not, he needs a lot of care. It will all depend on whether or not the next coach or coaches will be able to help him. He obviously doesn't fit well with Plekanec. He probably needs a center that can communicate well with him. I guess it will be easier to predict when the name of the new coach will be known.
First of all: I totally acknowledge the fact that he needs someone (line mates or coach) to light a fire under his chair. AKA: high maintenance player.
That being mentioned...
Bourque scored 27 goals, two seasons in a row, before joining us. The guy is not an 14-18 goals scorer: he proved to be a 20-30 goals scorer. Right?
(1) Plekanec is not the ideal line mate for Bourque. Plekanec is our best center and I am a huge fan (great two way input, high compete level, he stands his ground…) but he has limited leadership skills. I really want to see Bourque (if our next pick is not NHL ready and/or we fail to find a better solution via the UFA or trade route) play alongside Cole and Desharnais. Both have an insanely high compete level and they would never accept a half hearted effort from Bourque.
(2) You wrote: "Many 20 goals scorers don't offer the level of play that is needed for a winning team…". Assuming you agree with me that "Bourque scored 27 goals, two seasons in a row, before joining us. The guy is not an 14-18 goals scorer: he proved to be a 20-30 goals scorer…", please provide me with a list of "proven 20-30 goals scorers" + "big body" + "decent/good defensive awareness" + "willingness to go in the heavy traffic" players who did not offer the level of play that is needed for a winning team.
Right now, I need to log off but trust me: if I find a/numerous player(s) that fit(s) the description, I will post it here.
My "list thing" was not a rhetorical question; however my point is: if he provides us with 20 goals while playing on a solid shutdown line (Bourque – Eller – Moen: hell to Smurfs!), I would be a happy fan.
Imo Bourque (I was saying the same thing about Andrei Kostitsyn btw) is worth the effort. He is the incarnation of "secondary scoring".
Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 04-09-2012 at 06:46 PM.
