HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

To Bourque or not to Bourque

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-09-2012, 09:35 AM
  #51
MTL-rules
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,632
vCash: 500
I hope the new GM will do everything in his power to trade him... we don't need these kind of players.

MTL-rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 09:36 AM
  #52
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
I hope the new GM will do everything in his power to trade him... we don't need these kind of players.
Goal scorers with size? If we deal him we deal him, but I really wouldn't mind seeing what he could do playing with DD and Cole after an offseason of conditioning and head clearing....

hogtownhabsfan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 09:42 AM
  #53
Habbadasher
Registered User
 
Habbadasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My couch
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Goal scorers with size? If we deal him we deal him, but I really wouldn't mind seeing what he could do playing with DD and Cole after an offseason of conditioning and head clearing....
I think moving Cole with Pleks makes more sense as he is more of a veteran and DD and Max have a long history. But intriguing thought though.

Habbadasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 09:45 AM
  #54
JohnnyB11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saint John, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
I think moving Cole with Pleks makes more sense as he is more of a veteran and DD and Max have a long history. But intriguing thought though.
Wow - the last thing I'd do out of the gate next year is bust up the only line that produced last year! No need at all to split up DD-Cole-Patches. Plenty of other pieces to move around looking for the right combination.

JohnnyB11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 09:54 AM
  #55
montreal
Moderator
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 24,604
vCash: 500
Since he has a NTC, we'll see what happens to him but going into this season he had back to back to back 20+ goal seasons and just missed another one this season despite looking like he'd rather be fishing then playing hockey. That said he was brutal here, hope it was something off ice related and that he gets his **** together for next season.

montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 09:59 AM
  #56
Captain Saku
Registered User
 
Captain Saku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,391
vCash: 500
Give him 20 to 30 games next year and we'll go from there.

Captain Saku is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 10:09 AM
  #57
Habs
Registered User
 
Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
My mistake, for which I apologize. However, he should still try to honor that name.
lol, I wonder how many other people hated RB because they thought he was Ray's son.

Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 10:37 AM
  #58
Kjell Dahlin
Registered User
 
Kjell Dahlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Québec, Québec
Posts: 2,011
vCash: 500
Bourque was looking good alongside Darche (just before Darche's injury) and Plekanec; they were a solid shutdown line. Assuming reinforcement on Plekanec's wings, I think he would look good with Moen and Eller on our 3rd line (shut down line) next season.

If our first pick in the upcoming draft is not NHL ready and/or the quest (UFA/trade) for a new winger to play on Plekanec's line is a failure, I would not be against the following top2 lines:

Pacioretty – Plekanec – Gionta
Bourque – Desharnais – Cole

Can you imagine Bourque giving a half-hearted effort while playing alongside Desharnais and Cole? I can't!

Since 2008-09, 6'2" 211 pnds Bourque scored 21 (in 58 games played), 27, 27 and 18 goals. He did not become useless in 30 games! People in here (and in general) are tough and have weird expectations regarding secondary scoring: by definition, a 20 something goals scorer is streaky.

Because (1) Bourque was genuinely pissed about his performance in Montreal, (2) his goals scoring history, (3) he is not afraid, contrary to Cammalleri, of the heavy circulation, I expect a better contribution from Bourque next season. Our next coach will sure need to do a better job than Cunneyworth in coping with his inability to compete at a high level regularly but I think it is doable.

Btw... can someone enlighten me regarding Bourque's alleged, by the OP, prima donna attitude? I did not see that from him.


PS Bourque's cap hit is 3,3M$. His salary for the remaining 4 years of his contract will be: 3M$, 4M$, 2,5M$ and 2,5M$.


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 04-09-2012 at 10:44 AM.
Kjell Dahlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 10:44 AM
  #59
We Want The 25
Go Habs Go
 
We Want The 25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
too early to give up on him .
i think hes gonna be good for us next year when theres actually a reason to try for and will be a solid 2nd liner or very good 3rd liner he had a lot of chances and some bad luck since coming over.

We Want The 25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 11:43 AM
  #60
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Bourque was looking good alongside Darche (just before Darche's injury) and Plekanec; they were a solid shutdown line. Assuming reinforcement on Plekanec's wings, I think he would look good with Moen and Eller on our 3rd line (shut down line) next season.

If our first pick in the upcoming draft is not NHL ready and/or the quest (UFA/trade) for a new winger to play on Plekanec's line is a failure, I would not be against the following top2 lines:

Pacioretty – Plekanec – Gionta
Bourque – Desharnais – Cole

Can you imagine Bourque giving a half-hearted effort while playing alongside Desharnais and Cole? I can't!

Since 2008-09, 6'2" 211 pnds Bourque scored 21 (in 58 games played), 27, 27 and 18 goals. He did not become useless in 30 games! People in here (and in general) are tough and have weird expectations regarding secondary scoring: by definition, a 20 something goals scorer is streaky.

Because (1) Bourque was genuinely pissed about his performance in Montreal, (2) his goals scoring history, (3) he is not afraid, contrary to Cammalleri, of the heavy circulation, I expect a better contribution from Bourque next season. Our next coach will sure need to do a better job than Cunneyworth in coping with his inability to compete at a high level regularly but I think it is doable.

Btw... can someone enlighten me regarding Bourque's alleged, by the OP, prima donna attitude? I did not see that from him.


PS Bourque's cap hit is 3,3M$. His salary for the remaining 4 years of his contract will be: 3M$, 4M$, 2,5M$ and 2,5M$.
I agree with you.

Bourque's carreer can be salvaged under a new head coach. Let's give him a chance.

If by mid-season next year he is still the same unproductive player, then trade him. A 3,3 milion cap hit is not the end of the world.

By now, Larry Carrière knows him very well. If Bourque is traded in the off season, it will be because carrière would have seen something wrong with him and unfixable.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 12:11 PM
  #61
AllanMTL46
Registered User
 
AllanMTL46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ste-Agathe, Lotb.
Country: Canada
Posts: 854
vCash: 500
Roy is the type of guy that could push him.

AllanMTL46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 12:15 PM
  #62
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 20,418
vCash: 500
As soon as you get a guy who *needs* the push, it's trouble to begin with. Whether he ultimately gets a push or not, sooner or later it will come back to haunt us.

He's waay more of a tease than AK was, for example. (Because, well... he has done NOTHING). At least even when AK was in a funk you got the sense he *should* be doing something, that he was *capable* of doing something. With Bourque... wow, I don't even see that much to hope for.

Anyway, I don't see us being lucky enough to move him, so I'll just have to hope he comes in re-focused, and indeed that our new coach finds some trick to motivate him, and he has a decent season, or at least decent enough that our new GM can eventually find a taker.

Going to hold onto my suspicions even if he does start well next year.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 01:01 PM
  #63
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,697
vCash: 500
He'll get either a year or two here (or in Hamilton) to get his career back on track and if not buy him out. It's not ideal but it's not the end of the world, either.

Frozenice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 01:05 PM
  #64
76ftw
24
 
76ftw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,438
vCash: 500
He sucked this year.

However I have a weird feeling he's going to make a lot of us eat crow next year. He won't be a top line player, but a solid 3rd liner or maybe even a 2nd liner.

76ftw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 01:14 PM
  #65
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 24,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Bourque was looking good alongside Darche (just before Darche's injury) and Plekanec; they were a solid shutdown line. Assuming reinforcement on Plekanec's wings, I think he would look good with Moen and Eller on our 3rd line (shut down line) next season.

If our first pick in the upcoming draft is not NHL ready and/or the quest (UFA/trade) for a new winger to play on Plekanec's line is a failure, I would not be against the following top2 lines:

Pacioretty – Plekanec – Gionta
Bourque – Desharnais – Cole

Can you imagine Bourque giving a half-hearted effort while playing alongside Desharnais and Cole? I can't!

Since 2008-09, 6'2" 211 pnds Bourque scored 21 (in 58 games played), 27, 27 and 18 goals. He did not become useless in 30 games! People in here (and in general) are tough and have weird expectations regarding secondary scoring: by definition, a 20 something goals scorer is streaky.

Because (1) Bourque was genuinely pissed about his performance in Montreal, (2) his goals scoring history, (3) he is not afraid, contrary to Cammalleri, of the heavy circulation, I expect a better contribution from Bourque next season. Our next coach will sure need to do a better job than Cunneyworth in coping with his inability to compete at a high level regularly but I think it is doable.

Btw... can someone enlighten me regarding Bourque's alleged, by the OP, prima donna attitude? I did not see that from him.


PS Bourque's cap hit is 3,3M$. His salary for the remaining 4 years of his contract will be: 3M$, 4M$, 2,5M$ and 2,5M$.
Well, the impression left after watching a guy take shifts(/games) off, take lazy/bad penalties, etc. is that he doesn't think he has to work as hard or disciplined as those around him. For some, that would come across as "prima dona".

Maybe you should watch Kelly Hrudey (who, like Ron MacLean mentions, watches a LOT of Calgary hockey) weigh in on his "attitude" just 2 months before the trade, mentioning the apology he issued to his teammates regarding his ethic/attitude:


Ohashi_Jouzu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 01:19 PM
  #66
Patrice Brisebois
Registered User
 
Patrice Brisebois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toronto/Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 553
vCash: 500
I'm not too worried about Bourque and I'm willing to give him another chance. James Neal only had 2 goals in 27 games (playoffs included) with Pittsburgh after he was traded last year. He has 40 this year.

Patrice Brisebois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 02:52 PM
  #67
smon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Goal scorers with size? If we deal him we deal him, but I really wouldn't mind seeing what he could do playing with DD and Cole after an offseason of conditioning and head clearing....
This guy does have a nasty streak but it shows up very rarely. So prototypically based on his size and scoring touch he seems like the ideal power forward, but he floats in so many games. His numbers with Calgary were not half-bad but they were in a rush to get him out of town for that consistency reason.

He has one of the weaker reps in the league. That said, horrible team this year...no motivation to compete. Maybe with a stronger culture next season, win some games, he can contribute in a secondary role where him taking nights off is not the end of the world.

smon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 03:04 PM
  #68
MsChanandlerBong
The Chan-Chan Man
 
MsChanandlerBong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 683
vCash: 500
The reason Bourque had such a bad +/- this season is because of his skill level and who he played against. Being placed with Plekanec meant that he continually faced the opposing top line, a role that he absolutely cannot fill. However, given a third line role with offensive opportunities, I think he will do reasonably well. Hopefully he will reach around the same points as AK46 did, but with a much better defensive game (he actually skates back every single shift).

MsChanandlerBong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 03:13 PM
  #69
Kjell Dahlin
Registered User
 
Kjell Dahlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Québec, Québec
Posts: 2,011
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, the impression left after watching a guy take shifts(/games) off, take lazy/bad penalties, etc. is that he doesn't think he has to work as hard or disciplined as those around him. For some, that would come across as "prima dona".

Maybe you should watch Kelly Hrudey (who, like Ron MacLean mentions, watches a LOT of Calgary hockey) weigh in on his "attitude" just 2 months before the trade, mentioning the apology he issued to his teammates regarding his ethic/attitude:

Thanks for the link (I just watched it) but:

(1) Is Hrudey a good analyst and a reliable journalist? Legit question here – I don't know him well. (EDIT: btw he said "he should apologise to his teammates" not "he did apologise".)

(2) If Bourque is such a lazy player how did he manage to score 27 goals during two seasons in a row before joining us?

I am not his biggest fan and I fully realise that he needs someone (line mates or coach) to light a fire under his chair from time to time but if he gives us 20 goals next season while playing on 3rd with Eller and Moen (shut down line - Bourque played that role for us alongside Darche + Plekanec and he did a good job), I'd be a happy fan.

Again: people need to realise that 20 something goals scorer are, by definition, streaky. That's why most fans include them under the label "secondary scoring".


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 04-09-2012 at 03:19 PM.
Kjell Dahlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 03:35 PM
  #70
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 26,681
vCash: 500
We have no choice but to give him another shot. Let's hope he takes advantage of it. It sure would be nice to have him producing.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 03:41 PM
  #71
Rise from the Ashes
Price defies corsi
 
Rise from the Ashes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pointe-Claire, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,080
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Rise from the Ashes
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I really wanna see Bourque have a good offseason of conditioning and then come in next year and have the chance to play with DD and Cole, with Pacioretty playing with Plekanec.
To be honest, I also believe he was out of shape this year. It looked like he had cement in his skates and his lungs gave our really quickly. He was always 1-2 steps behind the play. If he improves his conditioning he will be a solid 50 point player with 20+ goals.

Rise from the Ashes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 03:43 PM
  #72
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,242
vCash: 500
Give him a real coach and let him play against less difficult matchups like he's comfortable in and see what happens. No reason not to give him a chance.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 06:08 PM
  #73
Alexdaman
Registered User
 
Alexdaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Pominville, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,540
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Thanks for the link (I just watched it) but:

(1) Is Hrudey a good analyst and a reliable journalist? Legit question here – I don't know him well. (EDIT: btw he said "he should apologise to his teammates" not "he did apologise".)

(2) If Bourque is such a lazy player how did he manage to score 27 goals during two seasons in a row before joining us?

I am not his biggest fan and I fully realise that he needs someone (line mates or coach) to light a fire under his chair from time to time but if he gives us 20 goals next season while playing on 3rd with Eller and Moen (shut down line - Bourque played that role for us alongside Darche + Plekanec and he did a good job), I'd be a happy fan.

Again: people need to realise that 20 something goals scorer are, by definition, streaky. That's why most fans include them under the label "secondary scoring".
Many 20 goals scorers don't offer the level of play that is needed for a winning team, the problem with Bourque is his confidence. First of all he never seems to enjoy being on the ice, winning team or not, he needs a lot of care. It will all depend on whether or not the next coach or coaches will be able to help him. He obviously doesn't fit well with Plekanec. He probably needs a center that can communicate well with him. I guess it will be easier to predict when the name of the new coach will be known.

Alexdaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 06:34 PM
  #74
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
I hope the new GM will do everything in his power to trade him... we don't need these kind of players.
??

What "kind of player" are you talking about?

Guys with size that can score?

Bourque has definitely struggled, but he has a track record for scoring and a good contract, would be dumb to just dump him after a poor half season.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-09-2012, 06:36 PM
  #75
Kjell Dahlin
Registered User
 
Kjell Dahlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Québec, Québec
Posts: 2,011
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Many 20 goals scorers don't offer the level of play that is needed for a winning team, the problem with Bourque is his confidence. First of all he never seems to enjoy being on the ice, winning team or not, he needs a lot of care. It will all depend on whether or not the next coach or coaches will be able to help him. He obviously doesn't fit well with Plekanec. He probably needs a center that can communicate well with him. I guess it will be easier to predict when the name of the new coach will be known.
First of all: I totally acknowledge the fact that he needs someone (line mates or coach) to light a fire under his chair. AKA: high maintenance player.

That being mentioned...

Bourque scored 27 goals, two seasons in a row, before joining us. The guy is not an 14-18 goals scorer: he proved to be a 20-30 goals scorer. Right?

(1) Plekanec is not the ideal line mate for Bourque. Plekanec is our best center and I am a huge fan (great two way input, high compete level, he stands his ground…) but he has limited leadership skills. I really want to see Bourque (if our next pick is not NHL ready and/or we fail to find a better solution via the UFA or trade route) play alongside Cole and Desharnais. Both have an insanely high compete level and they would never accept a half hearted effort from Bourque.

(2) You wrote: "Many 20 goals scorers don't offer the level of play that is needed for a winning team…". Assuming you agree with me that "Bourque scored 27 goals, two seasons in a row, before joining us. The guy is not an 14-18 goals scorer: he proved to be a 20-30 goals scorer…", please provide me with a list of "proven 20-30 goals scorers" + "big body" + "decent/good defensive awareness" + "willingness to go in the heavy traffic" players who did not offer the level of play that is needed for a winning team.

Right now, I need to log off but trust me: if I find a/numerous player(s) that fit(s) the description, I will post it here.

My "list thing" was not a rhetorical question; however my point is: if he provides us with 20 goals while playing on a solid shutdown line (Bourque – Eller – Moen: hell to Smurfs!), I would be a happy fan.

Imo Bourque (I was saying the same thing about Andrei Kostitsyn btw) is worth the effort. He is the incarnation of "secondary scoring".


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 04-09-2012 at 06:46 PM.
Kjell Dahlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.