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Fight Announcements & Rumors - Part 5

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04-08-2012, 06:24 PM
  #551
Peter Griffin
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Anyone else get the feeling that somehow Overreem will be able to talk his way out of this and will be fighting JDS come May 26th? He's got a hearing with the NSAC April 24th, same date as Nick Diaz, and with Dana apparently shooting down the possibility of Mir/Velasquez stepping into the title fight, there really aren't any other realistic options.

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04-08-2012, 06:50 PM
  #552
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Anyone else get the feeling that somehow Overreem will be able to talk his way out of this and will be fighting JDS come May 26th? He's got a hearing with the NSAC April 24th, same date as Nick Diaz, and with Dana apparently shooting down the possibility of Mir/Velasquez stepping into the title fight, there really aren't any other realistic options.
Yeah, there is some fishy business going on with the likely replacement being shot down.

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04-08-2012, 09:19 PM
  #553
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My guess is that the title fight is scrapped, Mir/Cain is main event (which I'm more than happy with), it goes back to a 5 fight card instead of the 6 it was supposed to be, Reem is most likely cut (off of what Dana said, seems likely if Reem can't get his license at the hearing), and then JDS faces the winner of Cain/Mir. I just don't see how the NSAC can allow someone with that high of testosterone levels to get a license, especially since he's had issues in the past. If Overeem isn't fired, he'll probably be suspended for 6 months or 1 year and then be back. As for Diaz, I can actually see him getting off since they only found the metabolites in his system and he has a club card to legally smoke weed for his anxiety, which to me is a legitimate excuse.

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04-08-2012, 11:32 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Anyone else get the feeling that somehow Overreem will be able to talk his way out of this and will be fighting JDS come May 26th? He's got a hearing with the NSAC April 24th, same date as Nick Diaz, and with Dana apparently shooting down the possibility of Mir/Velasquez stepping into the title fight, there really aren't any other realistic options.
I think it's unlikely to happen but that's what I'm hoping for.

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My guess is that the title fight is scrapped, Mir/Cain is main event (which I'm more than happy with), it goes back to a 5 fight card instead of the 6 it was supposed to be, Reem is most likely cut (off of what Dana said, seems likely if Reem can't get his license at the hearing), and then JDS faces the winner of Cain/Mir. I just don't see how the NSAC can allow someone with that high of testosterone levels to get a license, especially since he's had issues in the past. If Overeem isn't fired, he'll probably be suspended for 6 months or 1 year and then be back.
Are you talking about a UFC suspension or NSAC suspension? Dana seems pretty pissed and he might want to show people that he won't tolerate this kind of stuff so he could suspend him. But since Overeem doesn't have a license with the NSAC, can they even suspend him?

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04-08-2012, 11:59 PM
  #555
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My guess is that the title fight is scrapped, Mir/Cain is main event
The thing is, Dana has also come out and said that JDS will still be fighting on the card. I know he says a lot of things, but if were taking him on his word that Cain/Mir will still be fighting, then we should also assume the same for JDS.

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it goes back to a 5 fight card instead of the 6 it was supposed to be
It was never a 6 fight card, UFC 145 was made into a 6 fight card, but UFC 146 has always been advertised as the 5 heavyweight fights.


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But since Overeem doesn't have a license with the NSAC, can they even suspend him?
This is where things get kind of murky. When Overreem fought under a conditional licence at 141 part of the conditions were that he could be randomly drug tested 6 months after the fight. Well, he failed this test meaning he violated the conditions of his license. From what Kizer is saying his options are to ask for the "B" sample to tested and hope it passes, assume guilt and re-apply in a year, or attend a hearing, plead his case and hope things go his way.

My question is can he apply for a license with another commission? I know the UFC wont allow a fighter that is suspended by one commission fight under a license from another commission, but from the sounds of it, Overreem won't suspended per se, but rather his license will be denied by the NSAC. Probably not an option, but who knows.


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04-09-2012, 12:21 AM
  #556
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Are you talking about a UFC suspension or NSAC suspension? Dana seems pretty pissed and he might want to show people that he won't tolerate this kind of stuff so he could suspend him. But since Overeem doesn't have a license with the NSAC, can they even suspend him?
I think the NSAC will suspend him. He had the condition to be tested just to get a temporary license and he failed it horribly. I'm expecting either 6 months or a year from him and then who knows how the UFC will actually handle him.

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The thing is, Dana has also come out and said that JDS will still be fighting on the card. I know he says a lot of things, but if were taking him on his word that Cain/Mir will still be fighting, then we should also assume the same for JDS.



It was never a 6 fight card, UFC 145 was made into a 6 fight card, but UFC 146 has always been advertised as the 5 heavyweight fights.
Ah. Sorry. I did not know that Dana said JDS would still be fighting. Still I don't really believe everything Dana says so I'll take that with a grain of salt, as we as the Mir/Cain fight staying together. If one of them is offered the title fight, no doubt they both take it no questions asked. Again I still think JDS will be pulled, Mir/Cain is main event, and the UFC prays hard every day that the fight ends quick and with the winner not hurt and ready to turn around quickly for a title fight.

As for the 2nd part, my mistake. I could swear that was the card that has 6 fights but clearly I was wrong. It's been so long since there's been a UFC card that I've been neglecting it while worrying about the Kings making the playoffs/school/a road trip I took during spring break. Mind is all over the place.

Even if the NSAC can't actually suspend Overeem, I'd assume they'd place a de facto suspension on him - meaning he's not REALLY suspended but he can't get a license with them for six months/a year and I fully expect every other commission to comply with the NSAC's ruling unless it was say an overseas commission. Is there any remote possibility that Overeem and the UFC would cut ties (for his suspension or permanently) and see Overeem go back to K1 or fight in promotions in Holland/other European countries?

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04-09-2012, 12:32 AM
  #557
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Ah. Sorry. I did not know that Dana said JDS would still be fighting. Still I don't really believe everything Dana says so I'll take that with a grain of salt, as we as the Mir/Cain fight staying together. If one of them is offered the title fight, no doubt they both take it no questions asked. Again I still think JDS will be pulled, Mir/Cain is main event, and the UFC prays hard every day that the fight ends quick and with the winner not hurt and ready to turn around quickly for a title fight.
But if it comes down to scrapping a title fight altogether, or promoting Mir to fight JDS and finding another opponent to fight Cain, doesn't it make more sense for the UFC to do the latter?
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Even if the NSAC can't actually suspend Overeem, I'd assume they'd place a de facto suspension on him - meaning he's not REALLY suspended but he can't get a license with them for six months/a year and I fully expect every other commission to comply with the NSAC's ruling unless it was say an overseas commission.
I'm not in the know on how exactly the commissions work, but if Overreem is denied a license with the NSAC I'm not sure if that prevents him for applying for a license with say the CSAC or not. Like I said, probably not an option but something to think about in this time of uncertainty that it seems the UFC has all figured out.

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04-09-2012, 02:17 AM
  #558
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But if it comes down to scrapping a title fight altogether, or promoting Mir to fight JDS and finding another opponent to fight Cain, doesn't it make more sense for the UFC to do the latter?


I'm not in the know on how exactly the commissions work, but if Overreem is denied a license with the NSAC I'm not sure if that prevents him for applying for a license with say the CSAC or not. Like I said, probably not an option but something to think about in this time of uncertainty that it seems the UFC has all figured out.
I actually think the former makes more sense in this situation. Then what does Cain do? Yes Mir is the closest after Reem to deserving a title shot but Cain was the former champ and every other heavyweight is booked up. To me it makes more sense to have a legit #1 contender, which would be the winner of Mir/Cain, than promoting one to that position and leaving the other in the balance. Just typing this I know it sounds stupid but I just think it'd throw off the division so much by scrapping the #1 contender fight rather than the title fight. Every other relevant heavyweight pretty much is on this card. Then where do you go from the Mir/JDS fight? Do you just give Cain the next shot. Do one of the winners get Cain for the #1 contender? Having Cain sit out would only prolong the gap between title fights if Overeem can't fight and Mir steps in. It'd likely be at LEAST 6 months from this up coming fight between title shots, if not longer whereas if you keep this, you have the #1 contender fight, 3 months later the Title fight, and around that same time you can set up another #1 contender fight. Again, this is all hypotheticals and knowing MMA, this would all get thrown out of loop so fast



And I don't know how these commissions work either but I'd assume that since Overeem was under a temporary license, a failed drug test would warrant a suspension, even if it was just temporary. He technically was licensed or else he wouldn't have been able to fight Brock and part of that license was the drug test, which he failed, and that to me means suspension that will be upheld by the CSAC and all the other athletic commissions

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04-09-2012, 05:09 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
I actually think the former makes more sense in this situation. Then what does Cain do? Yes Mir is the closest after Reem to deserving a title shot but Cain was the former champ and every other heavyweight is booked up. To me it makes more sense to have a legit #1 contender, which would be the winner of Mir/Cain, than promoting one to that position and leaving the other in the balance. Just typing this I know it sounds stupid but I just think it'd throw off the division so much by scrapping the #1 contender fight rather than the title fight. Every other relevant heavyweight pretty much is on this card. Then where do you go from the Mir/JDS fight? Do you just give Cain the next shot. Do one of the winners get Cain for the #1 contender? Having Cain sit out would only prolong the gap between title fights if Overeem can't fight and Mir steps in. It'd likely be at LEAST 6 months from this up coming fight between title shots, if not longer whereas if you keep this, you have the #1 contender fight, 3 months later the Title fight, and around that same time you can set up another #1 contender fight. Again, this is all hypotheticals and knowing MMA, this would all get thrown out of loop so fast.

And I don't know how these commissions work either but I'd assume that since Overeem was under a temporary license, a failed drug test would warrant a suspension, even if it was just temporary. He technically was licensed or else he wouldn't have been able to fight Brock and part of that license was the drug test, which he failed, and that to me means suspension that will be upheld by the CSAC and all the other athletic commissions
The longer I think about this, the more and more scrapping the title fight makes the most sense.

And, yes, state athletic commissions uphold each others decisions on things like this; the only reason he would be denied a license by Nevada is because he was going to fight in Nevada ... if California would have administered the same medicals, it stands to reason he would have failed those just the same. Some sort of non-fighting related incident (like the New Years Vegas Overeem brawl) might be viewed differently different places, but performance enhancing drugs / lying when applying for a license / misconduct in the ring is all going to be upheld by other commissions.

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04-09-2012, 09:40 AM
  #560
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No way does scrapping the title fight make sense. Its terrible business, for one.

With all of the injuries to champs, when you have a healthy champ ready to fight you get them in there. It may not be an ideal match up but you find a replacement and you don't look back.

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04-09-2012, 10:12 AM
  #561
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No way does scrapping the title fight make sense. Its terrible business, for one. With all of the injuries to champs, when you have a healthy champ ready to fight you get them in there. It may not be an ideal match up but you find a replacement and you don't look back.
Maybe I'm thinking like Frank Mir's manager and not like the UFC promoter ... this is probably what will happen, but I still don't like it. If Mir gets the shot, he's switching from an all-around grappler to a pure boxer; Mir's game is well-rounded, but if this happens today, Mir gets 6 weeks to prepare, 4 if the decision isn't made until the NSAC meeting. It may well be that Mir has already gotten the heads-up and is making plans accordingly, but switching from a super-cardio, all-around wrestler to a home-run hitting striker with 3 weeks to prepare seems like a good way to get stopped for the 6th time.

Complete change of topic: how far away from a title shot is Rousimar Palhares? 3 fight win streak, 7-2 in the UFC (one by Hendo-beatdown and one under strange / controversial circumstances to Marquardt). He's scheduled to fight Alan Belcher at Fox 3 (that's going to be a sick card BTW), and if he wins it convincingly, is he close? I only see Sonnen, Bisping and Weidman in line ahead of him. Okami and Belfort are probably there too but I don't see either having any rematch value.

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04-09-2012, 10:33 AM
  #562
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No way does scrapping the title fight make sense. Its terrible business, for one.
Agree completely, taking JDS is off the card would be a horrible decision. In a UFC where GSP, Condit & Anderson fight once a year you need to embrace guys like Jones & JDS who want to stay active.

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04-09-2012, 11:09 AM
  #563
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Maybe I'm thinking like Frank Mir's manager and not like the UFC promoter ... this is probably what will happen, but I still don't like it. If Mir gets the shot, he's switching from an all-around grappler to a pure boxer; Mir's game is well-rounded, but if this happens today, Mir gets 6 weeks to prepare, 4 if the decision isn't made until the NSAC meeting. It may well be that Mir has already gotten the heads-up and is making plans accordingly, but switching from a super-cardio, all-around wrestler to a home-run hitting striker with 3 weeks to prepare seems like a good way to get stopped for the 6th time.

Complete change of topic: how far away from a title shot is Rousimar Palhares? 3 fight win streak, 7-2 in the UFC (one by Hendo-beatdown and one under strange / controversial circumstances to Marquardt). He's scheduled to fight Alan Belcher at Fox 3 (that's going to be a sick card BTW), and if he wins it convincingly, is he close? I only see Sonnen, Bisping and Weidman in line ahead of him. Okami and Belfort are probably there too but I don't see either having any rematch value.
Its one thing if you don't want to break-up Mir/Cain, its another to scrap JDS entirely. Why would you not want JDS to just fight another challenger? Henderson or Werdum? I don't even care if you put someone who doesn't deserve it in there to try to get a cool underdog story going. Throw Travis Browne in there, or Stipe Miocic. Or someone else winning fights. The last thing you do is just scrap the fight outright.

As for Palhares, I think the UFC is too scared of his craziness to give him a shot yet. He needs to win a couple fights without doing something out of left field before he gets it. I would love to see it though, he has as good of a shot as anyone else at 185 does.

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04-09-2012, 11:12 AM
  #564
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Oh also, if you're Mir's manager and are offered the title fight you take it and don't look back. Its a no-brainer decision.

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04-09-2012, 11:18 AM
  #565
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Its one thing if you don't want to break-up Mir/Cain, its another to scrap JDS entirely. Why would you not want JDS to just fight another challenger? Henderson or Werdum? I don't even care if you put someone who doesn't deserve it in there to try to get a cool underdog story going. Throw Travis Browne in there, or Stipe Miocic. Or someone else winning fights. The last thing you do is just scrap the fight outright.
Agreed. There are enough casuals out there buying PPV that they are more liklely to tune in if their is a heavyweight title on the line than just the #1 contender fight. Title fights sell PPV's.

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04-09-2012, 12:58 PM
  #566
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Well I think I realized I'm more of a proponent of not breaking up Mir/Cain than scrapping JDS. If Hendo/Werdum could step in, do it. Hell, maybe Dana gives Tim Sylvia that chance at redemption he wanted

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04-09-2012, 01:06 PM
  #567
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Well I think I realized I'm more of a proponent of not breaking up Mir/Cain than scrapping JDS.
Why are you so attached to that fight? The bookies have Cain at -400 and Mir at +300 and I think most tend to agree that it's a tune-up fight for Cain.

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04-09-2012, 02:17 PM
  #568
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Compustrike had it 50-40 for Overeem in total strikes landed and FightMetric had it 62-46 Werdum. Hardly a unanimous verdict as to who outstruck who, and it certainly wasn't by a "substantial margin" as you put it. Overeem won that fight by being the aggressor and controlling the fight. Striking and grappling was a wash.
I agree with Kurt. I think Werdum won the fight.

I think you are stretching the truth a bit by saying Overeem was the aggressor.

JDS should fight. Someone. Probably Henderson. That would sell just as good as anything else they could come up with and there isnt much of a downside for Hendo career wise. Other than getting KO'd in brutal fashion.

There is huge upside if he could upset JDS.


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04-09-2012, 05:14 PM
  #569
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Why are you so attached to that fight? The bookies have Cain at -400 and Mir at +300 and I think most tend to agree that it's a tune-up fight for Cain.
Because if you look at the division, they're the two guys contending who don't juice more than a V8 factory. It gives clarity on to who a true number one contender is and then the loser can face the winner of another fight on that card. Plus I love Cain and I know Mir would get the shot before Cain

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04-09-2012, 05:35 PM
  #570
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Because if you look at the division, they're the two guys contending who don't juice more than a V8 factory. It gives clarity on to who a true number one contender is and then the loser can face the winner of another fight on that card. Plus I love Cain and I know Mir would get the shot before Cain
I have a question - do you pay for the PPV fights? Because I cannot understand this mentality for someone who is actually paying their own 60 bucks to watch a fight. I can't fathom a situation where I would rather see a title fight scrapped just so the #1 contender fight is a bit better.

Besides, then just do the Mir vs JDS fight and match up Cain with virtually anyone else at HW. Cain gets an easier fight and the fans get to see JDS defend his belt vs a worthy challenger.

Canceling JDS off the card is virtually the only way they could botch this all, and since the UFC isn't run by an idiot that's not going to happen.

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04-09-2012, 06:53 PM
  #571
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I have a question - do you pay for the PPV fights? Because I cannot understand this mentality for someone who is actually paying their own 60 bucks to watch a fight. I can't fathom a situation where I would rather see a title fight scrapped just so the #1 contender fight is a bit better.

Besides, then just do the Mir vs JDS fight and match up Cain with virtually anyone else at HW. Cain gets an easier fight and the fans get to see JDS defend his belt vs a worthy challenger.

Canceling JDS off the card is virtually the only way they could botch this all, and since the UFC isn't run by an idiot that's not going to happen.
No I don't. I'm in college with no job so I unfortunately have to stick to streams. Again, I posted it before but to me scrapping Mir/Cain to me would just throw the division out of whack. My guess is JDS will stay on but really, there are so many variables it's impossible to predict what really will happen.

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04-09-2012, 06:59 PM
  #572
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No I don't. I'm in college with no job so I unfortunately have to stick to streams. Again, I posted it before but to me scrapping Mir/Cain to me would just throw the division out of whack. My guess is JDS will stay on but really, there are so many variables it's impossible to predict what really will happen.
No problem, been there as the broke college guy.

Sorry I didn't mean any disrespect by it, I just know that for a lot of people their mindset changes when they want to get "their money's worth" so for 60 bucks they want a title fight.

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04-09-2012, 07:13 PM
  #573
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No problem, been there as the broke college guy.

Sorry I didn't mean any disrespect by it, I just know that for a lot of people their mindset changes when they want to get "their money's worth" so for 60 bucks they want a title fight.
No offense taken. Totally a valid question. As for me, my opinion wouldn't change. To me, I would rather buy a card that had 3 or 4 fighters I like/enjoy than one that had 3 title fights that I didn't so losing a title fight to me wouldn't be huge if it didn't destroy the integrity of the card. Overeem already did that and the only thing that will excite me to see would be Cain vs JDS, which won't happen and as a huge fan of his, shouldn't happen, just yet. I would be just fine with having Diego Brandao, who is an exciting fighter coming off winning TUF. I'm already PUMPED to see Cain make his come back, I'm a big (pun intended) Nelson fan, and I like Struve and Hunt too so I really have no problem adding Brandao as compared to the other options.

The really only opions are:

1. JDS vs Mir. Cain would drop off the card or be slated to have a squash fight.
2. Keep Mir/Cain and add in Hendo, Werdum, or Hunt to fight JDS. Hunt would be entertaining but I have a hunch JDS would just take him down. Werdum I don't think deserves it yet. Hendo would be fun but JDS would probably kill him IMO.
3. Drop JDS off, keep the card, move Brandao's fight to main card. Mir/Cain fights JDS in a few months.

The reason I like 3 is because it keeps the card, which to me is already very exciting, in tact, adds one exciting fight, and loses another. Mir got destroyed by Carwin and JDS is a clear step ahead of Carwin. Mir gets destroyed in that fight to me. Again, I wouldn't mind option 2 but then what if JDS gets hurt in that fight? Again, just how I see it. If any of you visit the Kings board ever, you'd know I usually don't share the same opinion as the masses

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04-09-2012, 07:27 PM
  #574
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Fair enough. I'm far, far against option 3 for reasons above but I won't rehash them.

A Kings fan too hey? I'm a Canucks fan.. Should be a fun series.

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04-09-2012, 07:44 PM
  #575
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Fair enough. I'm far, far against option 3 for reasons above but I won't rehash them.

A Kings fan too hey? I'm a Canucks fan.. Should be a fun series.
Understandable. Hopefully we'll have some clarity sooner rather than later so we have something else to talk about but I'm sure that won't happen until the NSAC's meeting.

And yeah. Enjoy an easy first round win.

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