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Gainey's legacy as GM is not as bad as people think

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Old
04-09-2012, 07:29 PM
  #51
LeMAD
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In the end Gainey was probably worst than Houle. Good drafting (which he has nothing to do with) made him look better.

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04-09-2012, 07:36 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
His legacy finished 28th in a 30 team league.
Not true...that was Gauthier's legacy. Gainey didn't fire Martin when we were only 2 points out of a playoff spot despite injuries and play that was on the upswing. No way we finish 28th with Martin behind the bench the full season.

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04-09-2012, 07:43 PM
  #53
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by Habitualwinner View Post
The profanities, the over-the-top foaming at the mouth irrationality, these boards need to be cleaned up. So many people with so much hatred. All the haters can huff and puff all they want and will NEVER be able to take away the respect Gainey has among his peers. He has a cup win as a GM...oh...oh I forgot that was the pre-salary cap era. So what? Cup wins in the cap era are more important? Gainey has accomplished more in the hockey world than the vast majority of hockey people (including every single poster on these boards)
You wrote: "... He has a cup win as a GM...oh...oh I forgot that was the pre-salary cap era. So what? Cup wins in the cap era are more important? ..."

In the pre cap era, it was easier, much easier (think of Gomez), to get rid of your mistakes.

Ref.: Donald Audette and his huge (at the time) contract.

The cap, from a GM perspective, completely changed the game.

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04-09-2012, 07:51 PM
  #54
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I agree with the OP. That Kovy trade sticks in my memory. I remember the day it happened. It was like THANK YOU BOB!!!

It's really just the Gomez trade and honestly it turned out worse than expected. It was a major upheaval of the team and the circumstances played into it. If he hadn't given up McDo, it wouldn't even be that bad of a trade.

I think Gainey did a good job and realistically he brought us out from the dark ages. This season is an anomaly, we're going through an awkward transition, the injuries hurt (no pun intended) and perhaps we actually needed this to get to the next level.

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04-09-2012, 07:57 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DrunkenHabz View Post
And here we go again......

Next week's thread: Pierre Gauthier wasn't as bad
That thread will never exist unless it's created by One Sharp Marble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
In the end Gainey was probably worst than Houle. Good drafting (which he has nothing to do with) made him look better.
Can't agree with that. Carey Price is full credit to Bob. He took him in spite of intense heat from the media. And for all the crap that he got (and still gets from a select few) it was a great pick.

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04-09-2012, 08:14 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
I agree with the OP. That Kovy trade sticks in my memory. I remember the day it happened. It was like THANK YOU BOB!!!

It's really just the Gomez trade and honestly it turned out worse than expected. It was a major upheaval of the team and the circumstances played into it. If he hadn't given up McDo, it wouldn't even be that bad of a trade.

I think Gainey did a good job and realistically he brought us out from the dark ages. This season is an anomaly, we're going through an awkward transition, the injuries hurt (no pun intended) and perhaps we actually needed this to get to the next level.
Loved the Kovalev trade but the Gomez trade made me feel seasick when I heard about it. He was a bust with the Rangers and he wasn't the best center on the Devils.

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04-09-2012, 08:16 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I like to look at the results and the simple facts are this:

-He had 6 years of being the GM, and the team made the playoffs 5 out of those 6 times.
-One of the years the team placed first in the conference.
-The team got 90 or above points in every season he was the GM.
-Two 2nd round appearances.
-One conference finals appearance.

That is way above average in the current NHL environment. I have no problem with Gainey's tenure at all.
In a few years from now, when people start to be sick of the Roy circus that is about to hit town, people will remember the facts of Gainey's tenure and realize that he was a really good GM. Montreal, alongside Toronto, are the two most difficult NHL markets to operate. Dealing with the crazy media/fans on a daily basis and attracting free agents are two factors that make it much more difficult to succeed here than in other cities.

The problems this year with the team are due mostly to Gauthier's mismanagement, bad luck with injuries, and the normal up and down of every franchise. People are overeacting as usual.

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Old
04-09-2012, 08:21 PM
  #58
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Gainey started off very good. He was able to bring Kovalev to Montreal for very little and turned Hamilton into a championship team.

Then he had his personal issues and perhaps the biggest detriment was putting PG in as Head Pro Scout and Assistant GM.
We then promptly made the Ribeiro trade for Niinimaa who was horrible (bad pro scouting PG), then they made a good move in getting Gorges and Pacioretty for Rivet. Then there was a series of horrible moves involving SK, Grabo, Lats, Laps, McDonagh, our first rounder, multiple second rounders and then the hiring of PG.

I really do think that PG takes at least a half of the blame for the moves that BG made as GM. I think PG was acting given more and more power to make deals since Gainey was dealing with so many personal issues.

I really don't think it is a coincidence that everything fell apart once Gauthier was given a bigger role and had more input in the day to day decisions.

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04-09-2012, 08:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Serge Savard.

During Mr. Savard's twelve years as GM (1983-1995, you said since 1990) his team made the playoffs in eleven straight years and went to the Stanley cup finals three times (1986, 1989, 1993) yielding two cups in '86 and '93.

You're telling Gainey was anywhere close to as good as Savard? Not even close.

Savard's departure was the end of the Habs legacy. We have been awful ever since.
RONG

we have been terrible since the nords left

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04-09-2012, 08:44 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
You wrote: "... The part I respect him for the most though was his willingness to step behind the habs bench (and do a great job) when the team needed him..."

In 2008-09 Gainey fired Carbonneau and led the team to a 6-6-4 record (the team's record with Carbonneau as the head coach was, in 2008-09, 35-24-7) + a first round exit – Remember Laraque on 1st?

Is that what you call "... a great job..."?
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
One could easily argue that the time you are putting your negative outlook on is what resulted in the most successful result. The "summer spending spree" directly led to a conference finals birth, the best result the team has had in nearly two decades.

The question of whether it was worth it is a little more complex; however, the fact that is produced the most effective result during his tenure kind of de-legitimizes your argument.


Kjell Dahlin- I was referring more so to the 05/06 season when he took over from Julien. He turned that team around.
That aside, my point wasn't how great his record was as coach, it was the fact that he was willing to take on the pressure packed role of coach on top of being GM. That shows his heart was with the success of this team. He didn't pull a Gauthier and throw some poor AHL coach under the bus. He put his own neck on the line opposed to the cowardly approach. You have to respect that.

BTW his record on 05/06 was 23-15-3. Hardly terrible.

Bhudda- The thing is, the type of risk Gainey took that summer was all or nothing. Gomez, Gionta weren't exactly in their prime, and Cammy was passed the peak of his. Basically, there was probably a 2 year window max where these were the guys that could lead a team to a cup. That's not a lot of breathing room. It did almost pay off with a conference final showing, but in reality it was the last shot those guys had at being the leaders of a cup winning team. I think that's become painstakingly obvious with the decline of those 3 players the passed two years.

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04-09-2012, 08:55 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
People tend to forget how terrible the team was before Gainey was here. There is no doubt he had a part in bringing the team back from the basement. Unfortunately, he will be remembered for his Gomez trade and nothing but his Gomez trade.
It was making progress under Andre Savard. People tend to forget that too.

Gainey's record was miserable starting from his handling of coaches, handling of promising players, snubbing the heart and soul of the team, his horrible trades and the "sage advice" he provided Gauthier after PG took over as GM. The youthful talent was mostly acquired because of what Timmins had done.... NOT Gainey

The guy was in wayyyy over his head

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04-09-2012, 08:57 PM
  #62
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Bad GM but he did some good things like making me laugh when he told that journalist his wife should stick to baking bread.

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04-09-2012, 09:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
It was making progress under Andre Savard. People tend to forget that too.

Gainey's record was miserable starting from his handling of coaches, handling of promising players, snubbing the heart and soul of the team, his horrible trades and the "sage advice" he provided Gauthier after PG took over as GM. The youthful talent was mostly acquired because of what Timmins had done.... NOT Gainey
First, you're right Andre Savard probably doesn't get enough credit.

Second, most of the stuff you're saying happened after his personal issues took over his life. I give him a mulligan on the 2nd half of his tenure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
The guy was in wayyyy over his head
He won a cup in Dallas and was a good GM for the first half of his tenure. He also had the balls to tell the fans to cool their jets when they got too emotional. Gainey was not in over his head. I won't defend his record but there were extenuating circumstances.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if PG was pulling the strings in the 2nd half of his tenure here. I have NO evidence of this btw. Just wouldn't surprise me.

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Old
04-09-2012, 09:15 PM
  #64
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It hurts to see Mr Gainey treated with disrespect. I loved him when he was a player and he always exuded class IMO or at least tried to the best of his ability with the circumstances given.

I thought he made some great moves as GM and some not so good - just like every other GM. Variables can interfere with one's best made plans. Markov, while I don't want to use him as an excuse, was certainly a variable that Gainey had to endure. But his own personal tragedies exceed that variable by leaps and bounds. And when it's all said and done, as another poster already pointed out, Mr. Gainey's record and team accomplishments are not too shabby - at all.

One of my happiest moments as a Habs' fan was TV showing him in the pressbox with a smile at some point during the playoffs of 2009 - 2010. Through the coaching change, numerous injuries, roster changes, etc., the team that Gainey built had endured and went to the ECF and he looked happier than I had noticed in quite some time. It helped to nullify that moment during the Centennial celebrations when I believe he was booed.

I wish Mr. Gainey all of the best in his endeavors whatever they may be. A true gentleman who I thought took constructive steps to restore order to a stumbling, storied franchise. Maybe it didn't work out as he planned but then life is like that. Mr. Gainey maybe knows that more than a few of us because of his own losses. So having said that I'm a firm believer that at least having a plan is better than having none at all. He had something he wanted to give the fans but it didn't quite work out as planned but at the same time he gave me some fun stuff to watch anyway.


Thanks, Mr. Gainey for your service.

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04-09-2012, 09:37 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Habitualwinner View Post
The profanities, the over-the-top foaming at the mouth irrationality, these boards need to be cleaned up. So many people with so much hatred. All the haters can huff and puff all they want and will NEVER be able to take away the respect Gainey has among his peers. He has a cup win as a GM...oh...oh I forgot that was the pre-salary cap era. So what? Cup wins in the cap era are more important? Gainey has accomplished more in the hockey world than the vast majority of hockey people (including every single poster on these boards)
No

Stanley

Cup

In

Montreal.


That is not success. That is failure. Too many people are content with making the playoffs and calling that "success".

Its not.

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04-09-2012, 09:38 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Not true...that was Gauthier's legacy. Gainey didn't fire Martin when we were only 2 points out of a playoff spot despite injuries and play that was on the upswing. No way we finish 28th with Martin behind the bench the full season.
Admit it. You still love Jacky Martin and still wish that he were our coach. Right?

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04-09-2012, 09:38 PM
  #67
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He made some good moves but he left Gauthier with gigantic mess and then everyone blamed Gauthier when it all went downhill.

I'm glad both of them are gone.

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04-09-2012, 10:10 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
He made some good moves but he left Gauthier with gigantic mess and then everyone blamed Gauthier when it all went downhill.

I'm glad both of them are gone.
Gauthier is fully responsible for the debacle of this season.

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Old
04-09-2012, 10:24 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
He made some good moves but he left Gauthier with gigantic mess and then everyone blamed Gauthier when it all went downhill.

I'm glad both of them are gone.
He left Gauthier with a team that went to the Conference Finals....along with 2 young, talented goalies.

I don't blame everything on Gauthier, but he made a terrible amount of bad moves and non-moves.

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04-09-2012, 10:55 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
He was indirectly responsible for Bourque and Kaberle via secondary trades of Cammalleri and Spacek...
Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitualwinner View Post
The profanities, the over-the-top foaming at the mouth irrationality, these boards need to be cleaned up. So many people with so much hatred. All the haters can huff and puff all they want and will NEVER be able to take away the respect Gainey has among his peers. He has a cup win as a GM...oh...oh I forgot that was the pre-salary cap era. So what? Cup wins in the cap era are more important? Gainey has accomplished more in the hockey world than the vast majority of hockey people (including every single poster on these boards)
Amen! You know what it is? It's this generation where they feel like everything should be handed to them, where respect is an ancient thing of the past buried in graves long ago. People who weren't even in their father's thoughts when Gainey was captain of the Habs, playing with not one, but two separated shoulders. People who don't give a crap about the man who, in a short while, lost his wife and his daughter. Who cares? It didn't happen to them! How dare he traded for Gomez!

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Old
04-09-2012, 11:07 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
In the end Gainey was probably worst than Houle. Good drafting (which he has nothing to do with) made him look better.
GMs are involved in drafting. They get the reports, from the eyes of people they hired, and then make their decision.
Drafting alone makes Gainey a better GM than Houle.

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Old
04-10-2012, 12:23 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Picaroon View Post
I thought Gainey was great until his insane Summer spending spree. Waaay to many big contract's for older, declining players.
Up until then he has a track record which is well above average. Also, his calm cool demeanor was perfect for a Habs Gm.
The part I respect him for the most though was his willingness to step behind the habs bench (and do a great job) when the team needed him. He was fully committed to the success of this team, there is no doubt. Unfortunately, he left on a pretty sour note, so that's all anyone can remember.
That has always been my exact feeling.. Perfectly described.. Even though I didn't agree with the extreme makeover at the time (still don't) it still got us to the ECF.. The man knows his hockey

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04-10-2012, 12:28 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Serge Savard.

During Mr. Savard's twelve years as GM (1983-1995, you said since 1990) his team made the playoffs in eleven straight years and went to the Stanley cup finals three times (1986, 1989, 1993) yielding two cups in '86 and '93.

You're telling Gainey was anywhere close to as good as Savard? Not even close.

Savard's departure was the end of the Habs legacy. We have been awful ever since.
With the divisions the way they were!! Come on man.. It was impossible to miss the playoffs! As far as the cups are concerned, Patrick Roy is the reason we won them and although savard drafted him his overall drafting was mediocre at best just like his overall trades in a non cap era with an unlimited budget! I'm not saying savard was horrible but just saying his overall tenure (more than double time) was not that much superior to gainey's

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Old
04-10-2012, 12:54 AM
  #74
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You may not like the work he has done as a GM, but Gainey deserves much more respect from this fan base. What he has done for this franchise as a player, a captain, an ambassador commands respect and admiration.

And even though he has lost his wife and daughter far too early, he has remained strong and has done his job to the best of his ability.

I admire this man, and while I agree that his tenure as a GM was bad--I do agree that it's not as bad as a lot of people will say--it will never tarnish the role he has played in this franchise's history for me.

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04-10-2012, 03:04 AM
  #75
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He was average. He took a terrible team , made it good then made it terrible again.
As far as drafting goes he did a good job, we had few good prospects and no AHL affilliate when he came on. He mainly kept the picks and did not try too many quick fixes.

I was hoping that he would rebuild when he first came here. I thought he was the perfect guy for it and that people would accept it better coming from him than anyone else out there.

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