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Old
04-09-2012, 11:21 PM
  #151
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
No team has ever regreted to sign guys in the mould Parise, every team in the league should try to sign this player. Not doing so because it would be considered a quick fix (Much like Brière in Phily or Richards in New-York, both teams weren't contenders) would be madness.
New York has signed tons of bad FAs. And they were in better shape than we are now dude, don't kid yourself.

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04-09-2012, 11:30 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I don't see him as a building block. I see a guy who's under 23 and has upside as a building block.

Parise is 28 and the kind of guy that you add to 'win it now.' We're not at that stage right now. Way too many holes in our lineup. For once I'd rather see us focus on an actual rebuild.
Actually, I see him as a great guy to show all the young guys how to play the game the right way. Guy got Hart votes and was 4th in all-star voting in '09/10, was 5th in Hart voting in '08/09 and 2nd team all-star (only a 2 horse race with him and Ovechkin, Kovalchuk a distant 3rd with only 1/6th of Parise's votes), and has received Selke votes a few times. He'd probably join the teams as its best forward. What's wrong with having a guy like him "set the bar" as younger players are brought into the fold??

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
As for your point about Gionta... I'm not sure who else we really could put there. It would be:

Max DD Cole
Parise Pleks Gionta

I'm sorry but I don't see that as a great top 6. Putting Bourque (who has size but hasn't demonstrated much skill) is no better. Factor in our D as being at best questionable and I think we'd be adding Parise and wasting him.

I'm not opposed to adding FAs. But the timing has to be right. And I don't think the time to do this is now.
Um... I mention "holes" in the top 6, and I think I've explained that I see Bourque and Gionta "having to be" in our top 6 as the problem. If no one internally can move up to take their place (what player currently under contract with the Habs is better suited for top 6 duties next year?), then what else can you do? Find a cheapish marginal top 6 stop-gap player to stick in the way for a few years instead until something ELSE "better" comes along or the "timing is right" (whatever that really means, given that new management is going to be under pressure to undo past mistakes AND improve immediately)?

Even just a "swap" of Gomez's spot on the roster for Parise wouldn't represent a significant difference in cap totals, and we'd obviously be the better for it, so why not? I don't see many LWers in the league that I would rather add than Parise - and I see even fewer if conversation is restricted to players scheduled to become FAs any time soon. If the Habs won't become a Cup contender within the term of whatever contract Parise signs next, then I guess keeping Price the whole time will prove to be a waste, too, since he could be past his prime by the time the Habs "legitimately" contend, according to you. Having said that, you also said "Get better players and the team will win." so...

Not too many opportunities to land one of the very best LWers in the league (we're talking top 5 here, not just top 30), so I'd grab one if I could and focus on the remaining parts of the lineup which need improving. I mean, good luck adding a 23 year old Hart, all-star, and Selke vote receiving "legitimate" building block LWer instead, if you ever find one.

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04-09-2012, 11:39 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
New York has signed tons of bad FAs. And they were in better shape than we are now dude, don't kid yourself.
No no, he said a "guy like Parise" ("in the mould of"). Of all the players who have received Hart votes multiple times in their career and eventually been traded, how many of those teams ever regretted adding that player, no matter what point in their career they were at? I think that's where ChoseLa is going with that one. It's not just about "success" through FA in the broadest terms; it's about the kind and calibre of the player involved, too.

As such, the "recent" addition of Richards to the Rangers could very well be demonstrative of the potential effect adding a single player like Parise might have. You probably would have argued at the start of the season that giving that icetime to Dubinsky and Stepan instead would have been "better" (longterm/for their development/whatever) than giving it to a 30 year old Richards, but I doubt anyone in that organization would agree with you or even sit down to listen to your counter-points right now.


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04-09-2012, 11:41 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The only thing I think we should care about is building towards the cup. As I said in my post to Ohashi, I think if we added Parise we'd be wasting him. We're better off rebuilding and THEN looking to do a move like this.

As it stands we're barely a playoff team, it doesn't make sense to make this kind of move right now. Give it a year, let the team show what it can do. Then evaluate... we don't need to go locking ourselves into a big contract like this right now.

Tons of the greatest players of all-time developed on losing teams. Yzerman, Sakic, Crosby, Lemieux... all played for horrible teams. This "losing mentality" is crap. Get better players and the team will win.

And I didn't dismiss Parise for being old. I said that he doesn't make sense for us right now. He's in his prime and we're barely a playoff team. Throwing him a big contract now doesn't make a whole lot of sense when we're not going to win anything anytime soon. Parise makes sense for a team that's a player away from a cup. We're not there. It IS a quick fix to go get him.
A player like Parise not only makes us a playoff team but one decent top 4 dman makes us a contender. Your idea of not signing a franchise player because "we aren't good enough" is ridiculous. You can then trade that great player at the end of his contract for a pile of assets.

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04-09-2012, 11:56 PM
  #155
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We allowed 8 shorthanded goals, and 10 empty net. So, as rare as it is, it could very well happen that that's the main reason for his +/-.
I have him at -13 for 5 on 5 play so its a factor but not that strong of one.

Subban is the one whose +/- has really been screwed with due to SH and EN. He has the 2nd best 5 on 5 plus minus on the team (+13).

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Old
04-10-2012, 12:43 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Actually, I see him as a great guy to show all the young guys how to play the game the right way. Guy got Hart votes and was 4th in all-star voting in '09/10, was 5th in Hart voting in '08/09 and 2nd team all-star (only a 2 horse race with him and Ovechkin, Kovalchuk a distant 3rd with only 1/6th of Parise's votes), and has received Selke votes a few times. He'd probably join the teams as its best forward. What's wrong with having a guy like him "set the bar" as younger players are brought into the fold??
I don't think it makes sense timing wise. I'm not saying he's a bad player. I think that adding him doesn't get us closer to a cup. I think we'd spin our wheels trying to plug holes while he's in the lineup and I think adding him now doesn't really make sense.

If we're going to build, I'd want to do it with younger players now.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Um... I mention "holes" in the top 6, and I think I've explained that I see Bourque and Gionta "having to be" in our top 6 as the problem. If no one internally can move up to take their place (what player currently under contract with the Habs is better suited for top 6 duties next year?), then what else can you do? Find a cheapish marginal top 6 stop-gap player to stick in the way for a few years instead until something ELSE "better" comes along or the "timing is right" (whatever that really means, given that new management is going to be under pressure to undo past mistakes AND improve immediately)?

Even just a "swap" of Gomez's spot on the roster for Parise wouldn't represent a significant difference in cap totals, and we'd obviously be the better for it, so why not? I don't see many LWers in the league that I would rather add than Parise - and I see even fewer if conversation is restricted to players scheduled to become FAs any time soon. If the Habs won't become a Cup contender within the term of whatever contract Parise signs next, then I guess keeping Price the whole time will prove to be a waste, too, since he could be past his prime by the time the Habs "legitimately" contend, according to you. Having said that, you also said "Get better players and the team will win." so...

Not too many opportunities to land one of the very best LWers in the league (we're talking top 5 here, not just top 30), so I'd grab one if I could and focus on the remaining parts of the lineup which need improving. I mean, good luck adding a 23 year old Hart, all-star, and Selke vote receiving "legitimate" building block LWer instead, if you ever find one.
Parise is coming off a 30 goal 70 point season. Not bad but it's not near what his highs were. No doubt he was great a few years back but he's not without risk. And it's very possible he's played his best hockey.

I'm not saying he's over the hill by any stretch but if you're bringing this guy on expecting 45 goals, I'd say you're probably expecting too much. And he'd cost a mint and we'd need to give him something stupid like 7 years.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
No no, he said a "guy like Parise" ("in the mould of"). Of all the players who have received Hart votes multiple times in their career and eventually been traded, how many of those teams ever regretted adding that player, no matter what point in their career they were at? I think that's where ChoseLa is going with that one. It's not just about "success" through FA in the broadest terms; it's about the kind and calibre of the player involved, too.
We brought on Cammy expecting him to be a 40 goal guy and he didn't produce. Granted much of that was injury but he didn't produce. I see adding Parise as being much the same. Yes, he's a better player than Cammy was but I don't see us going anywhere with him.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
As such, the "recent" addition of Richards to the Rangers could very well be demonstrative of the potential effect adding a single player like Parise might have. You probably would have argued at the start of the season that giving that icetime to Dubinsky and Stepan instead would have been "better" (longterm/for their development/whatever) than giving it to a 30 year old Richards, but I doubt anyone in that organization would agree with you or even sit down to listen to your counter-points right now.
Brad Richards is a 32 year old 12 million dollar 66 point player with a long contract. And unlike us, the Rangers actually get the best FAs every year. They just reload every season. It's not just a single FA that they've added, they added Gaborik and Richards. They also don't have two midgets in their top six to go along with it or huge question marks on the D. They also ripped us off on one of our best prospects while dumping a bad contract that allowed them to go get Gaborik to begin with. That's several moves, not one. And those moves + their own younger players and Henrik Lundqvist are why the Rangers are where they are.

Maybe it works out for them. The Rangers are usually a middle of the pack team with a huge payroll. This season they've been great. I think a huge reason for that though is Lundqvist himself who's been unbelievable. We all know that there's more than one way to win a cup. But you'd think with the way the Rangers spend all that cash all the time that they'd have seen more cups along the way. But that hasn't happened. They've got a strong team and a spectacular goalie. It might be enough. But I don't think that adding Parise to our club is an apples to apples comparison.

You'd be adding big dollars. We'd have to find a way to ditch some bad contracts that we have like Gomez and Kaberle. We've got holes elsewhere and guys like Price, Max and Subban will be commanding larger dollars soon. And I still don't like the idea of Gionta/Pleks/Parise as I think that line is too small. And that's what the 2nd line would be because we don't really have anyone else to put there. I don't see putting either Parise or Gionta with DD.

I mean is it so horrific an idea to be patient here? We'll get a high pick this year and we've got some good young D coming up in the next few seasons anyway. It may take a little longer but I'd rather wait it out and see how we can do. If we don't do well, then we take another good pick next season. UFAs will always be out there. Parise is good but it's not like we're passing up Crosby here. And he only managed 31 goals this season. He's going to want a king's ransom and it's very likely that he'll be paid more than he's worth. No thanks.

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04-10-2012, 03:22 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I don't think it makes sense timing wise. I'm not saying he's a bad player. I think that adding him doesn't get us closer to a cup. I think we'd spin our wheels trying to plug holes while he's in the lineup and I think adding him now doesn't really make sense.

If we're going to build, I'd want to do it with younger players now.
While all opinions are "valid", I think the one you expressed right there is ludicrous. Of course he would. He's not only VERY talented, he's strong in all 3 zones (unlike EVERY LWer we have, except maybe Max... maybe) and one of the best LWers in the game. Of course he'd get us closer, even if the only change from this year was dumping Gomez (and his contract) and adding Parise.

Wanting to add younger players is fine and all, but Price is going to be 25 starting next season. How long do you figure management is really going to slow down the rebuild with him coming into his prime?? Your philosophy may be sound in a vacuum, but there are numerous situations in the NHL currently (including our own) which simply preclude the possibility of such an approach, whether you like it or not.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Parise is coming off a 30 goal 70 point season. Not bad but it's not near what his highs were. No doubt he was great a few years back but he's not without risk. And it's very possible he's played his best hockey.

I'm not saying he's over the hill by any stretch but if you're bringing this guy on expecting 45 goals, I'd say you're probably expecting too much. And he'd cost a mint and we'd need to give him something stupid like 7 years.
You're speculating as to the term it would require, and who holds anyone to career scoring highs when they join the Habs anyway? 30 goals and 70 points is more than respectable for someone who sat out almost the entire previous season. That's your cue to bring up concerns about injuries or whatever, but realize that he came back and played every game this year, finishing top 25 in league scoring (top 20 in goals).

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We brought on Cammy expecting him to be a 40 goal guy and he didn't produce. Granted much of that was injury but he didn't produce. I see adding Parise as being much the same. Yes, he's a better player than Cammy was but I don't see us going anywhere with him.
No, we brought in Cammy expecting him to be one of our leading goal scorers and someone who was supposed to have chemistry with the other two major FA additions at the time. Under-sized and one-dimensional though, so no surprise that he disappointed in other zones without the distraction of abundant goal scoring. Anyone who expected him to come and score 40 goals simply hasn't been watching the Habs very long, as the last person to do that was Damphousse in one of the highest league scoring years ever. Heck, Cammy never even actually got to the 40 goal mark, so I don't know what you're talking about there, unless you're referring me back to the opinions/projections from certain clueless and unrealistic posters of the time. I ignored them then, I'll ignore them now.

Anyway, I can't even believe that the calibre, skill, and style differences between Parise and Cammy have escaped you to the point of expecting "nothing different" (or, rather, "much the same").

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Brad Richards is a 32 year old 12 million dollar 66 point player with a long contract. And unlike us, the Rangers actually get the best FAs every year. They just reload every season. It's not just a single FA that they've added, they added Gaborik and Richards. They also don't have two midgets in their top six to go along with it or huge question marks on the D. They also ripped us off on one of our best prospects while dumping a bad contract that allowed them to go get Gaborik to begin with. That's several moves, not one. And those moves + their own younger players and Henrik Lundqvist are why the Rangers are where they are.
Maybe you missed it, but the Rangers had Gaborik in '09/10, he scored over 40 goals, and they missed the playoffs. Richards was the only major addition this year (compare the top 10 or 12 scorers from this year vs last year, and you'll see), and they finished 1st in the conference. As far as their "youth getting them where they are"... well, we have plenty of quality youth just waiting for the same opportunity to chip in behind "true" top line players, instead of being asked to carry the team from the top (like MaxPac, Subban, and Price have been).

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Maybe it works out for them. The Rangers are usually a middle of the pack team with a huge payroll. This season they've been great. I think a huge reason for that though is Lundqvist himself who's been unbelievable. We all know that there's more than one way to win a cup. But you'd think with the way the Rangers spend all that cash all the time that they'd have seen more cups along the way. But that hasn't happened. They've got a strong team and a spectacular goalie. It might be enough. But I don't think that adding Parise to our club is an apples to apples comparison.

You'd be adding big dollars. We'd have to find a way to ditch some bad contracts that we have like Gomez and Kaberle. We've got holes elsewhere and guys like Price, Max and Subban will be commanding larger dollars soon. And I still don't like the idea of Gionta/Pleks/Parise as I think that line is too small. And that's what the 2nd line would be because we don't really have anyone else to put there. I don't see putting either Parise or Gionta with DD.

I mean is it so horrific an idea to be patient here? We'll get a high pick this year and we've got some good young D coming up in the next few seasons anyway. It may take a little longer but I'd rather wait it out and see how we can do. If we don't do well, then we take another good pick next season. UFAs will always be out there. Parise is good but it's not like we're passing up Crosby here. And he only managed 31 goals this season. He's going to want a king's ransom and it's very likely that he'll be paid more than he's worth. No thanks.
This part was a lot of typing that really didn't say anything new. You went back to focusing on tanking until somehow the Cup becomes not just possible, but "likely" (lol?), and Parise's size instead of his skills and impact. And you keep going on about a Parise-Plekanec-Gionta line as if it would be a) a worse fate than death, and/or b) the only way to deploy the assets that we'll have starting next season.

I'd bet a lot of money the new 1st line would be Parise-Plekanec-Cole (too bad A.Kost isn't still at least an option there) in this scenario. If Gionta can't play beside MaxPac and DD next year, what the hell use is he anyway? $5 million 3rd liner? If that's the case, then either he or DD has to go as well. But let's be clear here: a $7 million dollar Parise (if he even gets more than the $6.66 mil long term that Richards did, in which case you could expect a much shorter term) can be expected to have much more impact than $5 million Gionta (or $7.3 million Gomez) next year, and every year that follows. He's still only 27...

And please, no more of the "we're not giving up on Crosby" hyperbole. There are currently maybe a handful of LWers better than Parise in the league, and I don't think any of them come at an appreciably lower price tag (if at all, since Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, and D. Sedin all currently cost as much/more... so that leaves... Neal?). I know you'd just love the opportunity to tank and try to draft a couple, but without a lottery pick every year, there is next to no chance that a better player than Parise comes through our pipeline (especially at LW, which is where one of our most glaring holes currently exists), even after a decade of tanking.


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04-10-2012, 03:48 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Parise is coming off a 30 goal 70 point season. Not bad but it's not near what his highs were. No doubt he was great a few years back but he's not without risk. And it's very possible he's played his best hockey.

I'm not saying he's over the hill by any stretch but if you're bringing this guy on expecting 45 goals, I'd say you're probably expecting too much. And he'd cost a mint and we'd need to give him something stupid like 7 years.
Both points are spot on. Parise is several years removed from his peak performances. He'll be the most highly pursued UFA forward on the market and, as such, will obtain a premium for his services. Is he a guy whom all things considered is worth a $7m+ yearly cap hit for the next 7 or 8 years? I wouldn't think so.


Quote:
... And I still don't like the idea of Gionta/Pleks/Parise as I think that line is too small. And that's what the 2nd line would be because we don't really have anyone else to put there. I don't see putting either Parise or Gionta with DD.
Parise will be demanding a long term deal. Likely 7 years. He'd be signed through 2020. Plekanec is already signed through 2016 (4 more years). Gionta is signed for 2 more years (2014) and would be tough to trade given that his highest point production over the past 3 years has been 46 points and he's signed at $5 million/yr.

DD will likely come cheap and given his performance and French lineage will be offered a 3-4 year deal (through 2016-17) come the end of next season. He'd be hard to trade for equal value and the media -and perhaps francophone fanbase -outrage would be significant. So, he's likely signed through 2016 when all is said and done.

With Parise, that's 4 out of top 6 less in the small category. Perhaps Grigorenko will be drafted and Plekanec or DD dealt, but that would still leave a very small top 6.

Quote:
I mean is it so horrific an idea to be patient here? We'll get a high pick this year and we've got some good young D coming up in the next few seasons anyway. It may take a little longer but I'd rather wait it out and see how we can do. If we don't do well, then we take another good pick next season. He's going to want a king's ransom and it's very likely that he'll be UFAs will always be out there. Parise is good but it's not like we're passing up Crosby here. And he only managed 31 goals this season.paid more than he's worth. No thanks
Like the old saying goes: "There are other fish in the sea". Just not this year. The next tide of free agency will surely yield a deeper crop of highly desirable free agent forwards. Patience is a virtue in this case.


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04-10-2012, 09:57 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Parise is coming off a 30 goal 70 point season. Not bad but it's not near what his highs were. No doubt he was great a few years back but he's not without risk. And it's very possible he's played his best hockey.
.
as I stated earlier, Parise matched his career best goals/game pace through the final 61 games of the season, and was just below a ppg pace.

his play, and more importantly, his physical abilities, show no sign of any significant limitation due to the injury.

he had a very slow 21 game start to the season. Anyone who understands the realities of playing sports at a professional level, could certainly appreciate that after missing the bulk of the previous season to injury, a short "getting up to speed" period is almost inevitable.

Physical readiness is one thing, getting the right timing/sharpness is another. Few athletes can miss so much time without some sort of re-adaptation period.

he's 27, he has many more years of "his best hockey" left, to state otherwise is nonesense and reveals serious flaws in the pseudo-facts behind this line of thinking.

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04-10-2012, 01:19 PM
  #160
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While all opinions are "valid", I think the one you expressed right there is ludicrous. Of course he would.
I don't agree. We'd add him and then we'd try to patch holes on the back end. Sure he makes us better, but it doesn't matter because we still wouldn't be good enough to win a cup. So we spin our wheels with him over the next few years and then try to win with him in his 30s.

We're better off developing the team for the next couple of years and THEN adding a guy like this.
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He's not only VERY talented, he's strong in all 3 zones (unlike EVERY LWer we have, except maybe Max... maybe) and one of the best LWers in the game. Of course he'd get us closer, even if the only change from this year was dumping Gomez (and his contract) and adding Parise.
Making us better is not the same thing as getting us closer to a cup. If I use a more extreme example, if Columbus adds Datsyuk are they closer to a cup? No. Why? Because they aren't going to win the cup now but would spend the window of the next few years trying to win it anyway before Datsyuk becomes over the hill.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Wanting to add younger players is fine and all, but Price is going to be 25 starting next season. How long do you figure management is really going to slow down the rebuild with him coming into his prime?? Your philosophy may be sound in a vacuum, but there are numerous situations in the NHL currently (including our own) which simply preclude the possibility of such an approach, whether you like it or not.
I've watched the team make all kinds of stupid moves over the years. They've made those moves whether I liked it or not. I'm used to it.

As for Price being 25... well, that's what I said three years ago right? I said Price would be 25 around now and signing all those other guys would just be a mess. And it turned out EXACTLY as I said it would only worse. We're a mess now and have Price coming into his prime. I don't want it to happen again.

For Cripes sake man, at what point do we show some patience? We've got a high pick this year and we might get another one next year. Just give it a year or two. THEN make these kinds of moves. Not now, when our team is a mess.

We have no idea what's happening with Markov. We've got old man Cole who was one of our best players this year. We've got holes on D and smurfs up front. There's no NEED to do this now.

BTW, whether you like it or not... Parise isn't coming here. So if the club is going to pursue the path you're suggesting you should be scared. Because we'll have to go after the leftover FAs like Ollie Jokinen to build with. That's usually the way it works out for us. We miss out on the best UFAs and settle for Gionta, Samsonov or whatever other FAs are left over.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
You're speculating as to the term it would require, and who holds anyone to career scoring highs when they join the Habs anyway? 30 goals and 70 points is more than respectable for someone who sat out almost the entire previous season. That's your cue to bring up concerns about injuries or whatever, but realize that he came back and played every game this year, finishing top 25 in league scoring (top 20 in goals).

No, we brought in Cammy expecting him to be one of our leading goal scorers and someone who was supposed to have chemistry with the other two major FA additions at the time. Under-sized and one-dimensional though, so no surprise that he disappointed in other zones without the distraction of abundant goal scoring. Anyone who expected him to come and score 40 goals simply hasn't been watching the Habs very long, as the last person to do that was Damphousse in one of the highest league scoring years ever. Heck, Cammy never even actually got to the 40 goal mark, so I don't know what you're talking about there, unless you're referring me back to the opinions/projections from certain clueless and unrealistic posters of the time. I ignored them then, I'll ignore them now.

Anyway, I can't even believe that the calibre, skill, and style differences between Parise and Cammy have escaped you to the point of expecting "nothing different" (or, rather, "much the same").
As I said, Parise is a better player. But I think the results will be the same. He won't take us anywhere. Sorry.
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Maybe you missed it, but the Rangers had Gaborik in '09/10, he scored over 40 goals, and they missed the playoffs. Richards was the only major addition this year (compare the top 10 or 12 scorers from this year vs last year, and you'll see), and they finished 1st in the conference. As far as their "youth getting them where they are"... well, we have plenty of quality youth just waiting for the same opportunity to chip in behind "true" top line players, instead of being asked to carry the team from the top (like MaxPac, Subban, and Price have been).
Like I said, there's more than one way to do it. I just don't subscribe to the philosophy of building via stupid contracts.

Every year that club reloads. Like I said, it's Richards this year and next year it will probably be Crosby. Personally I think they've played over their heads and Lundqvist has reached a whole new level of awesome.

As I said, maybe it works for them. I personally wouldn't build my team via FAs but that's the method they're going. If any team can do it that way it's NY. They can actually attract the best FAs every year. And again, you'd think they'd have won a ton of cups with the FAs they consistently attract but it hasn't happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
This part was a lot of typing that really didn't say anything new. You went back to focusing on tanking until somehow the Cup becomes not just possible, but "likely" (lol?), and Parise's size instead of his skills and impact. And you keep going on about a Parise-Plekanec-Gionta line as if it would be a) a worse fate than death, and/or b) the only way to deploy the assets that we'll have starting next season.

I'd bet a lot of money the new 1st line would be Parise-Plekanec-Cole (too bad A.Kost isn't still at least an option there) in this scenario. If Gionta can't play beside MaxPac and DD next year, what the hell use is he anyway? $5 million 3rd liner? If that's the case, then either he or DD has to go as well. But let's be clear here: a $7 million dollar Parise (if he even gets more than the $6.66 mil long term that Richards did, in which case you could expect a much shorter term) can be expected to have much more impact than $5 million Gionta (or $7.3 million Gomez) next year, and every year that follows. He's still only 27...

And please, no more of the "we're not giving up on Crosby" hyperbole. There are currently maybe a handful of LWers better than Parise in the league, and I don't think any of them come at an appreciably lower price tag (if at all, since Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, and D. Sedin all currently cost as much/more... so that leaves... Neal?). I know you'd just love the opportunity to tank and try to draft a couple, but without a lottery pick every year, there is next to no chance that a better player than Parise comes through our pipeline (especially at LW, which is where one of our most glaring holes currently exists), even after a decade of tanking.
I don't think Parise is as good as you do man. And I think adding him to our team now does nothing from getting to the cup. I've explained why. If you want to disagree that's cool. I think we're better off just showing patience with the draft (something we've never been willing to do) and build that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Like the old saying goes: "There are other fish in the sea". Just not this year. The next tide of free agency will surely yield a deeper crop of highly desirable free agent forwards. Patience is a virtue in this case.
I think so. Don't know why everyone is so opposed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
as I stated earlier, Parise matched his career best goals/game pace through the final 61 games of the season, and was just below a ppg pace.

his play, and more importantly, his physical abilities, show no sign of any significant limitation due to the injury.

he had a very slow 21 game start to the season. Anyone who understands the realities of playing sports at a professional level, could certainly appreciate that after missing the bulk of the previous season to injury, a short "getting up to speed" period is almost inevitable.

Physical readiness is one thing, getting the right timing/sharpness is another. Few athletes can miss so much time without some sort of re-adaptation period.

he's 27, he has many more years of "his best hockey" left, to state otherwise is nonesense and reveals serious flaws in the pseudo-facts behind this line of thinking.
I don't trust him. Sorry I don't. We'll see how many points he puts up when the Rangers sign him in the offseason I guess. I expect that his contract will be long and stupid and he'll be a 30 goal 70 point player for the next few years. I could be completely wrong but it won't surprise me at all if this is the case.

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04-10-2012, 06:08 PM
  #161
MathMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
We allowed 8 shorthanded goals, and 10 empty net. So, as rare as it is, it could very well happen that that's the main reason for his +/-.
This is why plus-minus, as it's currently described, is a bad stat. It skews against offensive players who see lots of PP and late-game trailing situations, and favors defensive players who play the PK and see a lot of late-game leads.

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