Not saying we should sign Price to an offer sheet at all, but the answer to your bolded question is "Lots of people".
I call BS on the whole offer sheet dilemma that GMs supposedly face. The last GM to successfully have an offered sheet signed was Doug Wilson of the Sharks, when he signed Niklas Hjalmarsson.
Other GMs didn't lose their minds when it happened. Since the failed offer sheet in June 2009, Doug Wilson has gone on to complete 16 trades, with 10 different franchises/GMs. The trades range from small to large and included notable assets such as 1st round picks, 2nd round picks, Dany Heatley, Martin Havlat, Brent Burns and Devin Setoguchi.
Hjalmarsson is a top 4 guy, who is not a franchise player. Price is. Even if Burke tries to offer sheet him, Montreal can easily match it. Burke loses credibility while gaining nothing.
This season is considered a failure. We will bring in the right players over the summer. Compliment Ron Wilson for his time spent in Toronto. Excited about the future under Randy Carlyle. Congratulate a few players on playing well. Take blame on himself.
__________________ Shoot me a PM with your concerns.
This season is considered a failure. We will bring in the right players over the summer. Compliment Ron Wilson for his time spent in Toronto. Excited about the future under Randy Carlyle. Congratulate a few players on playing well. Take blame on himself.
That's what I expect, pretty much what he's said over the past 3 months in every other week when he's been asked for his input on the state of the team. Throw in a "We have the greatest fans in the world" comment and some specifics on where to improve "size upfront, penalty killing and goals against" and I think you have a nice summary of what will be said tomorrow.
look at how well the marlies are doing
see how good Jake is? I got him and Lups for nothing!
look at how good Kessel is, ppg player!
phaneuf is a true leader and a virtuoso with an ipod.
we have the best fans in the world
community work is important
we have full faith in reims and allaire, monster saved the season
komisarek and army are so great in the room, truly great guys.
A year of excuses and rationalizations offered up by the head clown.
The laugh out loud load of ********* about the horror of the trade deadline pressure vomited forth by Burke should be enough to get him fired.
Burke talked about blue and white disease...now he suffers from it more than anyone else and his whining and excuse-making filters down to the players.
Come on Burke, let's hear you talk about "segments," the unbearable pressure of playing in Toronto, and perhaps you can float the idea of some self-imposed trade freezes around Halloween, all the players' birthdays and months that end in "er."
And please, do cap it off with the most worthless and meaningless statement in today's world: "I take full responsibility..."
This season is considered a failure. We will bring in the right players over the summer. Compliment Ron Wilson for his time spent in Toronto. Excited about the future under Randy Carlyle. Congratulate a few players on playing well. Take blame on himself.
That, and "We have the best fans in sports, they need to be rewarded"
He said something along those lines last year.
Still waiting to be rewarded
I'd be comfortable handing the reins to pretty much anyone in that front office. Dave Nonis, Rick Dudley, Claude Loiselle, take your pick. I'm tired of Burke's failures. This team has made very little progress, if any, during his years as GM. People can point to the fact that this team was "in the playoffs for 2/3 of the year" all they want. At the end of the day, Toronto missed the playoffs again. I don't care if they were in for 81 of the 82 games. They're on the outside looking in again. That's all that matters. The bad contracts, the soft players, the fact this team looks nothing like what Burke promised, is all too much for me anymore. I want him gone. Plain and simple.
all of those guys were brought in by BB, and in the case of RD who was recruited. He brought them in to eventually succeed him in the future. Burke's progress can be measured somewhat by building the Marlies as the AHL's 3rd best team(reg.sea), Best PK and League best goals allowed.
Truth is it takes 98 games to win the cup and anything less is a failed season.
Things are not as bad as the general consensus is, could you imagine how it would be if he hadn't made most of the moves he had? Yeah, I don't want to either.
I think the problem with us Leaf fans is, that most of us haven't seen a cup, but hear old stories, watch Black&White film about when we were great.
But the biggest is pissoff is now out of 45 years without a cup 18% of that is without the playoffs. that bothers us all...myself included.
The Hawks,B's and NYR all had almost as long or longer cup droughts, I understand venting but seriously if your going to verbally assassinate people to feel better about the emotions that your feeling then get a diary.
A year of excuses and rationalizations offered up by the head clown.
The laugh out loud load of ********* about the horror of the trade deadline pressure vomited forth by Burke should be enough to get him fired.
Burke talked about blue and white disease...now he suffers from it more than anyone else and his whining and excuse-making filters down to the players.
Come on Burke, let's hear you talk about "segments," the unbearable pressure of playing in Toronto, and perhaps you can float the idea of some self-imposed trade freezes around Halloween, all the players' birthdays and months that end in "er."
And please, do cap it off with the most worthless and meaningless statement in today's world: "I take full responsibility..."
all of those guys were brought in by BB, and in the case of RD who was recruited. He brought them in to eventually succeed him in the future. Burke's progress can be measured somewhat by building the Marlies as the AHL's 3rd best team(reg.sea), Best PK and League best goals allowed.
No argument there. Listen, I never have, and will never, try to hide the fact the I really don't like the overall job Brian Burke as done thus far. I give credit where credit is due however, and I believe he deserves a lot of credit for how he's built up the prospect pool and the Marlies. In that, I believe he has succeeded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmythesMinions
Truth is it takes 98 games to win the cup and anything less is a failed season.
Things are not as bad as the general consensus is, could you imagine how it would be if he hadn't made most of the moves he had? Yeah, I don't want to either.
I think the problem with us Leaf fans is, that most of us haven't seen a cup, but hear old stories, watch Black&White film about when we were great.
But the biggest is pissoff is now out of 45 years without a cup 18% of that is without the playoffs. that bothers us all...myself included.
The Hawks,B's and NYR all had almost as long or longer cup droughts, I understand venting but seriously if your going to verbally assassinate people to feel better about the emotions that your feeling then get a diary.
This isn't a verbal assassination, it's stating the truth of the situation. And it certainly doesn't make me feel better to be saying these things.
burke 2009 " i believe this team can make the playoffs"
burke 2010 " i believe this team can challenge for a playoff spot"
burke 2011 " the team we ended the season with is a playoff team"
burke 2012 " i am a moron"
I will wait for Burke 2012 quote. Last year the quote that stuck with me was the leafs were apparently two or three players away from being a cup contender (not just a playoff bubble team but a cup contender). Wilson said it and Burke later confirmed it but wow - not sure what to make of that - and their ability to assess the ability and competence of the team.
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Originally Posted by YearsintheWilderness
Burke talked about blue and white disease...now he suffers from it more than anyone else and his whining and excuse-making filters down to the players.
Sadly, this is appearing more and more like the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Slick
When Burke signed on back in November of 2008, we needed an elite centre, an elite defenceman and an elite goalie.
We're still waiting are we not?
Yes and I'm sure Burke has tried but for the salary he receives, the size of his management team and the time he had as GM, the results are sad compared to teams on a shoestring budget like Phoenix, the Panthers etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorriPage
I just hope the reporters in the room have the balls to ask the tough questions and hold Burke accountable to answer them. As much as I'm looking forward to watching this press conference and seeing how Burke tries to talk his way out of this, I have a bad feeling it's going to be a relatively light and civil affair.
The evil side of me hope the exchange gets ugly. At least then, I will feel some satisfaction from the pathetic ending to the season and for Burke's complete failure at managing the team at the deadline.
And Burke started taking revenge shots at the media when the leafs were a top NHL team back in December. And later blamed the media when the team started to struggle. So I'm not sure why the media should "play nice" when he sure doesn't know how to be diplomatic.
But that said, I bet the media takes the high road and avoids bashing him. Though at some point because Burke will deflect and not answer a "tough" question with a straight answer the entire exchange will get derailed. And HFboarders will then side with Burke because the question was rude or too tough and others against Burke because he won't give a straight answer and spinning the story.
I will wait for Burke 2012 quote. Last year the quote that stuck with me was the leafs were apparently two or three players away from being a cup contender (not just a playoff bubble team but a cup contender). Wilson said it and Burke later confirmed it but wow - not sure what to make of that - and their ability to assess the ability and competence of the team.
A manager backing up his employee even if he may not completely agree. Happens all the time.
Quote:
Sadly, this is appearing more and more like the truth.
And if he didn't back up his players, people like you would complain that he was throwing them under the bus.
Quote:
Yes and I'm sure Burke has tried but for the salary he receives, the size of his management team and the time he had as GM, the results are sad compared to teams on a shoestring budget like Phoenix, the Panthers etc.
So you think three years and four months is a sufficient term for a GM to turn a team around? If the Leafs fired Burke right now, do you think that only giving him that length of time will make it harder to get top candidates to take the job?
Quote:
The evil side of me hope the exchange gets ugly. At least then, I will feel some satisfaction from the pathetic ending to the season and for Burke's complete failure at managing the team at the deadline.
So, what it boils down is that you're a petty little man.
Quote:
And Burke started taking revenge shots at the media when the leafs were a top NHL team back in December. And later blamed the media when the team started to struggle. So I'm not sure why the media should "play nice" when he sure doesn't know how to be diplomatic.
Whatever. I'm quite sure Burke can handle whatever the media throws at him.
Quote:
But that said, I bet the media takes the high road and avoids bashing him. Though at some point because Burke will deflect and not answer a "tough" question with a straight answer the entire exchange will get derailed. And HFboarders will then side with Burke because the question was rude or too tough and others against Burke because he won't give a straight answer and spinning the story.
And to be honest, what HFBoarders say about things is probably one of the most unimportant things in the world.
A manager backing up his employee even if he may not completely agree. Happens all the time.
As much as I detest Burke, he did what he was supposed to do here. Throwing Wilson under the bus publicly accomplishes nothing and only serves to reflect poorly on the entire organization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac
So you think three years and four months is a sufficient term for a GM to turn a team around? If the Leafs fired Burke right now, do you think that only giving him that length of time will make it harder to get top candidates to take the job?
I don't think expecting gradual improvements year to year is asking too much. The stats speak for themselves. The Leafs point total this year is a statistical regression compared to previous years under Burke. He should be getting this team to move forward, not back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac
Whatever. I'm quite sure Burke can handle whatever the media throws at him.
I'm not so sure that he can. He seems to get very offended when he's asked what he considers to be an even remotely antagonistic question. The more he becomes unable to lead this team anywhere, the shorter his fuse is going to get when it comes to entertaining anything but "softballs" when it comes to the questions he'll be asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac
And to be honest, what HFBoarders say about things is probably one of the most unimportant things in the world.
Completely true. It's not like any of the things said on this board would reach Burke's eyes and ears, nor would it matter to him if it did. But then, that's the point of an online forum right? To voice opinions and discuss various topics.
As much as I detest Burke, he did what he was supposed to do here. Throwing Wilson under the bus publicly accomplishes nothing and only serves to reflect poorly on the entire organization.
I don't think expecting gradual improvements year to year is asking too much. The stats speak for themselves. The Leafs point total this year is a statistical regression compared to previous years under Burke. He should be getting this team to move forward, not back.
The stats speak for themselves? Each player have only gotten better under his reign and we finally have a star even though no one wants to admit it here it seems.
Quote:
I'm not so sure that he can. He seems to get very offended when he's asked what he considers to be an even remotely antagonistic question. The more he becomes unable to lead this team anywhere, the shorter his fuse is going to get when it comes to entertaining anything but "softballs" when it comes to the questions he'll be asked.
He had a crapshoot team when he came here. again we had matt stajan as our first liner lmao still makes me laugh thinking about it because of how pitiful we were back there.
The stats speak for themselves? Each player have only gotten better under his reign and we finally have a star even though no one wants to admit it here it seems.
I'm not talking about gradual improvements from individual player personnel. I'm talking about the team as a whole. Individual statistics mean nothing if the team goes nowhere.
Sidenote: I realize Kessel is a star. I'm one of his biggest supporters. I've gone on the record in this forum saying as much. On multiple occasions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket
He had a crapshoot team when he came here. again we had matt stajan as our first liner lmao still makes me laugh thinking about it because of how pitiful we were back there.
I'm not faulting Burke for what he had when he got here. He gets a free pass for that. I can't possibly sit here and criticize him for not being able to do anything with the spare parts and scraps that the previous regime left him to start with. When I call him out, it's predicated around the fact that this team, while appearing better on paper, has been statistically worse than previous years. And there are no excuses as far as players go. These are all Burke's guys. He brought them in.
I'm not talking about gradual improvements from individual player personnel. I'm talking about the team as a whole. Individual statistics mean nothing if the team goes nowhere.
Sidenote: I realize Kessel is a star. I'm one of his biggest supporters. I've gone on the record in this forum saying as much. On multiple occasions.
We have been better its just we falter at the stupidest times and it's unfortunate, and that you can point at burkie because he didn't make the move to get it. This off-season without a doubt will be very likely the most crucial season of his career here to find that right gel to control the lockerroom and keep it going for the long run.
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I'm not faulting Burke for what he had when he got here. He gets a free pass for that. I can't possibly sit here and criticize him for not being able to do anything with the spare parts and scraps that the previous regime left him to start with. When I call him out, it's predicated around the fact that this team, while appearing better on paper, has been statistically worse than previous years. And there are no excuses as far as players go. These are all Burke's guys. He brought them in.
Not really I know what you mean though but at this point I want to ask you this, do you want 1/3 of the season, towards the end pushing for that final spot or do you want a team that was basically gone from 1/3 the previous season and came back charged up next season to have a playoff spot consistently for 2/3 of the season? As much as this was a big disappointment for me and all I rather have the later hands down. Always because it shows progress that the earlier.
Sure it didn't go the right way but it's much better than what we had before.
We have been better its just we falter at the stupidest times and it's unfortunate, and that you can point at burkie because he didn't make the move to get it. This off-season without a doubt will be very likely the most crucial season of his career here to find that right gel to control the lockerroom and keep it going for the long run.
I really hope that doesn't include dealing the first round pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket
Not really I know what you mean though but at this point I want to ask you this, do you want 1/3 of the season, towards the end pushing for that final spot or do you want a team that was basically gone from 1/3 the previous season and came back charged up next season to have a playoff spot consistently for 2/3 of the season? As much as this was a big disappointment for me and all I rather have the later hands down. Always because it shows progress that the earlier.
Sure it didn't go the right way but it's much better than what we had before.
If I had to choose between the two then yes, I'd take the second version over the first simply because in the first version, they're winning the meaningless games while basically being crappy all year and in the second version they're strong virtually the whole season but wilt at the end. Personally though, I think it's about time this fanbase saw a third version, which is a team that's strong from start to finish and makes the playoffs with a legitimate chance to do some damage.
I need to go to a support group or something. "Hi, my name is MorriPage and I am a Jays, Leafs, Raptors and Colts fan." *sigh* Why do I even bother watching sports at all?
I really hope that doesn't include dealing the first round pick.
If I had to choose between the two then yes, I'd take the second version over the first simply because in the first version, they're winning the meaningless games while basically being crappy all year and in the second version they're strong virtually the whole season but wilt at the end. Personally though, I think it's about time this fanbase saw a third version, which is a team that's strong from start to finish and makes the playoffs with a legitimate chance to do some damage.
I need to go to a support group or something. "Hi, my name is MorriPage and I am a Jays, Leafs, Raptors and Colts fan." *sigh* Why do I even bother watching sports at all?
I dont see us trading the first rounder unless we are getting a player like Getzlaf IMO.
The third version is coming up soon, we have passed the first two levels. As I said I hoped and expected this team to make the playoffs atleast but crashed in a way...god knows how...probably the most depressing season for me since lockout. The third level where we play good and consistent the entire year will be next and without a doubt playoffs will be ours.
It's okay. I'm sort of the same although I'm good in basketball, lakers boy although I support the raptors to some extent even though I dont follow that as much anymore.
You guys just dont get it, LACK was there to allow those young guys to develope in the ahl and be much further ahead than had they played in the nhl this year when they were not ready. You armchair gm's no more than REAL hockey minds, this is clear
Quote:
Originally Posted by number72
Yes. I think Burke will talk up Gardiner, Marlies and the prospects.
Of course no reporter will be smart enough to ask if they are so great why those prospects couldn't earn a spot on leafs this year ahead of players like LACK. If they couldn't outplay those players I'm not sure what to expect.
Burke will take the blame....there is no doubt about that. The doubt is what is he going to pass off on to circumstances that he will say he could not control. Like Reimer concussion etc.
I will become a fan of Burke if he does not put a spin on the season and simply states the truth. We where horrible and need more players who will be accountable to their teammates and are worthy of wearing the Toronto Maple Leaf jersey.
I be he will thank Wilson. He will focus on the draft and state that we have a lot of young prospect to reshape the team moving forward. Questions will be kept to a minimum and answered without a lot of elaboration. He will talk about the new ownership and direction of the franchise. He will also speak about the fine season Kessel had as well as Gardiner. He will talk about keeping our expectations in check while supporting the players....placing get blame on the fans/media in some round about way. He will also mention that he will be designation more responsible to key members of his staff so that he can focus on only the Leafs. Spin spin...
Things are not as bad as the general consensus is, could you imagine how it would be if he hadn't made most of the moves he had? Yeah, I don't want to either.
What an asinine thing to say.
It's like this guy is pretending that if the leafs had a different GM for the past 4 years, he would have simply sat back and done nothing. The GM wouldn't have drafted any players or made any trades. Would have just accepted what Fletcher left him, and ridden it out for 4 years.
See, when we say that Burke is a failure, we mean that the state of the team is terrible compared to what it should be if it were managed properly. Like, say, if we had a GM who didn't trade away 2 first round picks, and then finish 2nd ****ing last and 9th ****ing last.
When you're the highest paid GM in league history, can spend right to the cap ceiling, and have the highest paid scouting department...
AND...
you're team's finished 7th last, 2nd last, 9th last, and 5th last since you took over...
you're team BETTER DAMN WELL either be competing in the standings, or have FLAT OUT ELITE prospects.
The leafs are NEITHER!!!!
It is NOTHING short of a disaster of legendary ****ing proportions and anybody that says differently is suffering from blue and white disease.
It IS that ****ing simple.
Only thing that'll piss me off is if Burke makes the claim that we have the best fans in the world.
That is a lie.
One only has to read this board for 5 minutes to realize Leaf fans are not even close to being good fans let alone the best.
After the presser, I'm gonna come back here and read all the whinning from the little bipolar crybabies and maybe even post some of it to facebook so everyone can have a laugh. Everyone loves watching an adult child throw a tantrum. I'm sure today won't disappoint.
Only thing that'll piss me off is if Burke makes the claim that we have the best fans in the world.
That is a lie.
One only has to read this board for 5 minutes to realize Leaf fans are not even close to being good fans let alone the best.
After the presser, I'm gonna come back here and read all the whinning from the little bipolar crybabies and maybe even post some of it to facebook so everyone can have a laugh. Everyone loves watching an adult child throw a tantrum. I'm sure today won't disappoint.
Your opinion is incorrect.
Imagine another franchise that is the richest in it's entire league. Imagine more than half of the teams make the playoffs. Imagine the team in question can spend right to the cap ceiling. Imagine they have the highest paid GM in the league's history and all those other financial advantages.
Now, let's also imagine that the team in question missed the playoffs longer than any other team in the league, including teams that are so poor that they lose tens of millions of dollars each season. Imagine the team in question still had no elite blue chip prospects.
If this situation happened with any other fan base, there would literally be assassinations and murders in the streets.
The fact that leafs fans merely vent on message boards is 100% testament to the fact that they're the best fans in the world.
although I support the raptors to some extent even though I dont follow that as much anymore.
