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Dubi gets dogged on. Anisimov gets a pass?

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Old
04-10-2012, 10:21 AM
  #1
mug25
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Dubi gets dogged on. Anisimov gets a pass?

I never quite understood this.

Dubinsky - 2010-2011
24 G / 30 A / 54 P

Anisimov - 2010-2011
18 G / 26 A / 44 P

Consider these factors

Dubinsky saw a significant rise in his +/- this season
Both players had significant dips in scoring this season.
Dubinsky played 77 games this season and last
Anisimov played 82 games this season and last
Anisimov logged several shifts on the first line this season, Dubinsky did not.
Dubinsky is stellar on the PK
4 of Dubinsky's goals last season came on the PP. He rarely received PP time this season.

What I don't get is, how some people dog on Dubinsky so hard yet Anisimov seems to get a free pass. This isn't so much a dig at Ani, I like him and I think he's an important part of the team but it's pretty puzzling how Dubinsky gets **** on.

It wasn't just fans. Even he has made it clear he likes the kid *Torts benched Dubinsky numerous times this season for poor play however in past seasons, unproductive stars with much more offensive talent than Dubi were given a free pass.

Dubi deserves more respect than has been given to him this season...

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04-10-2012, 10:24 AM
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I'm not a Dubi hater, but it's pretty upsetting to see someone who makes a $4.2 mil/yr struggling like that. But it does happen.

For what it's worth, Anisimov makes $1.875 mil/yr.

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04-10-2012, 10:25 AM
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The biggest reason is because of Dubi's new contract that he signed. For the amount of money per year he is getting, he needs to produce more. It is too glaring not to mention.

Secondly, some of the bone head moves by Dubi have earned him a seat in the doghouse.

As for Arti, I agree to an extent. Him and Stepan tend to get overlooked for their poor or non-existent play at times.

However, to say that Torts hasn't benched or demoted Arti at times, is 100% incorrect. The thing with Arti is his defensive and centering abilities have been consistent. Unlike Dubi.

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04-10-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mug25 View Post
I never quite understood this.

Dubinsky - 2010-2011
24 G / 30 A / 54 P

Anisimov - 2010-2011
18 G / 26 A / 44 P

Consider these factors

Dubinsky saw a significant rise in his +/- this season
Both players had significant dips in scoring this season.
Dubinsky played 77 games this season and last
Anisimov played 82 games this season and last
Anisimov logged several shifts on the first line this season, Dubinsky did not.
Dubinsky is stellar on the PK
4 of Dubinsky's goals last season came on the PP. He rarely received PP time this season.

What I don't get is, how some people dog on Dubinsky so hard yet Anisimov seems to get a free pass. This isn't so much a dig at Ani, I like him and I think he's an important part of the team but it's pretty puzzling how Dubinsky gets **** on.

It wasn't just fans. Even he has made it clear he likes the kid *Torts benched Dubinsky numerous times this season for poor play however in past seasons, unproductive stars with much more offensive talent than Dubi were given a free pass.

Dubi deserves more respect than has been given to him this season...
Not from me. I've been on AA all season. Even started a thread about him. Honestly, I'm surprised that AA has managed to stay on Torts' good side.

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04-10-2012, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Not from me. I've been on AA all season. Even started a thread about him. Honestly, I'm surprised that AA has managed to stay on Torts' good side.
It's shocking and ridiculous that he does.

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04-10-2012, 10:36 AM
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Why is not missing games all of a sudden a bad thing...

Dubinsky makes the contract of a 55-60 point player with intangibles. Anisimov makes the contract of a 35-40 point player.

Find out which one is more off base and you have your answer. Dubinsky was our teams leading scorer last year.

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04-10-2012, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mug25 View Post
I never quite understood this.

Dubinsky - 2010-2011
24 G / 30 A / 54 P

Anisimov - 2010-2011
18 G / 26 A / 44 P

Consider these factors

Dubinsky saw a significant rise in his +/- this season
Both players had significant dips in scoring this season.
Dubinsky played 77 games this season and last
Anisimov played 82 games this season and last
Anisimov logged several shifts on the first line this season, Dubinsky did not.
Dubinsky is stellar on the PK
4 of Dubinsky's goals last season came on the PP. He rarely received PP time this season.

What I don't get is, how some people dog on Dubinsky so hard yet Anisimov seems to get a free pass. This isn't so much a dig at Ani, I like him and I think he's an important part of the team but it's pretty puzzling how Dubinsky gets **** on.

It wasn't just fans. Even he has made it clear he likes the kid *Torts benched Dubinsky numerous times this season for poor play however in past seasons, unproductive stars with much more offensive talent than Dubi were given a free pass.

Dubi deserves more respect than has been given to him this season...
I like both players, but I dog Dubi more because I think he is the better offensive player and therefore should be contributing more.

Regardless of where AA was inserted, I do not think that he has the same capabilities as Dubi and therefore I do not expect him to be this consistent 50+ point scoring forward.

Dubinsky, however plays the game with enough skill and snarl to be ALOT better than he has been thus far this season.

For their career averages, I expect solid 2-way play from Double A with an average of 40 points a season. He has taken a step back from that this year, but not by much.

Dubinsky should be in that 45-50+ point per season range and has taken a significant step back in that regards. With Dubi I expect 20-25 goals and and 25-30 assists.

He's down 10+ goals and 4+ assists.

He gets crapped on more because more is expected.

To me, that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing.

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Old
04-10-2012, 10:41 AM
  #8
mug25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfans View Post
The biggest reason is because of Dubi's new contract that he signed. For the amount of money per year he is getting, he needs to produce more. It is too glaring not to mention.

Secondly, some of the bone head moves by Dubi have earned him a seat in the doghouse.

As for Arti, I agree to an extent. Him and Stepan tend to get overlooked for their poor or non-existent play at times.

However, to say that Torts hasn't benched or demoted Arti at times, is 100% incorrect. The thing with Arti is his defensive and centering abilities have been consistent. Unlike Dubi.
I wouldn't consider Stepan's play "poor" by any means. Who had most of the primary assists on Gaborik's goals this season? He's also been a key factor in getting the Powerplay going (at the end of the season).

Torts said in the post-practice interview that he feels Step has improved the powerplay by being on the point with MDZ. His patience with the puck on the PP has shown big time.

Also, the 4 on 4 play with Gaby + Step has been awesome this season. Theres a reason that even with Richards finally clicking with Gaby that Torts STILL keeps Step with Gaby for 4 on 4 situations.

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04-10-2012, 10:44 AM
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In a salary cap world, the amount of money in Dubi's contract is going to make him a target. That's fair.

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04-10-2012, 10:47 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mug25 View Post
I never quite understood this.

Dubinsky - 2010-2011
24 G / 30 A / 54 P

Anisimov - 2010-2011
18 G / 26 A / 44 P

Consider these factors

Dubinsky saw a significant rise in his +/- this season
Both players had significant dips in scoring this season.
Dubinsky played 77 games this season and last
Anisimov played 82 games this season and last
Anisimov logged several shifts on the first line this season, Dubinsky did not.
Dubinsky is stellar on the PK
4 of Dubinsky's goals last season came on the PP. He rarely received PP time this season.

What I don't get is, how some people dog on Dubinsky so hard yet Anisimov seems to get a free pass. This isn't so much a dig at Ani, I like him and I think he's an important part of the team but it's pretty puzzling how Dubinsky gets **** on.

It wasn't just fans. Even he has made it clear he likes the kid *Torts benched Dubinsky numerous times this season for poor play however in past seasons, unproductive stars with much more offensive talent than Dubi were given a free pass.

Dubi deserves more respect than has been given to him this season...
Good thread..What I thuink it comes down to is expectations for Dubi are way higher...

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04-10-2012, 11:02 AM
  #11
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The player making $4.2M had fewer goals and points than the player making $1.875M. With a bigger paycheck come bigger expectations.

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04-10-2012, 11:11 AM
  #12
OverTheCap
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It's Dubi's contract, and some people have disliked Dubi since his holdout.

Anisimov played much of the year on the top line with Stepan and Gaborik while Dubinsky played in the bottom 6 for about half the season, yet Anisimov has only 2 more points than Dubinsky. Obviously, Dubi has himself to blame, but I do feel that Torts exercised far more patience with Anisimov than Dubinsky. Arty had a 17 game pointless streak this year and it wasn't until about the 15th game that Torts demoted him. There is no way Torts would have left Dubi in the top 6 for that long.

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04-10-2012, 11:15 AM
  #13
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Dubinsky should stop frosting his tips if he wants to avoid criticism, that's like painting a target on your head.

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04-10-2012, 11:15 AM
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a) we all know torts has "his guys" and tends to lean on certain guys moreso than others. explain to me how feds and rupp continue to get any ice time at all meanwhile dubi makes a mistake and is autodoghoused. it is what it is.
b)i dont see how Ani is even mentioned in this conversation. NYR has at the very least gotten thier moneys worth out of AA contract, can you even begin to think the same for dubi? i sure cant.
c) its not the contract itself that has ejected me from the dubi bandwagon it was the manor in which he came to that ridiculous contract with the whining and holding out. HIs agent is just as much to blame for the way the contract negotiations went down but still, pretty ugly. The only way he was going to turn the fans back in his favor was to go out and earn that contract he begged, pleaded and cried for. He failed miserably and is paying the consequences for not living up to a big ticket contract in NY.

Hopefully he turns it on when it counts but the question remains, will torts trust him?
I can see dubi coughing up the puck at his blue line or taking a dumb penalty and torts sitting him for games. Right or wrong, dubi dug his own grave.

as much as i was pulling for dubi, i still wish he was moved at the deadline.

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04-10-2012, 11:22 AM
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eco's bones
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Contributing factors:

Dubinsky 207 hits 36 blocked shots.

Anisimov 75 hits 46 blocked shots.

Anisimov blocked more shots but he's way behind Dubinsky in on ice aggression. You could pro rate Dubinsky's hits to Callahan's ice time and Brandon would be in the same neighborhood as Ryan. So would Boyle and Prust. They are all fierce forecheckers. Anisimov is very good defensively but he doesn't make anywhere near as much physical contact. Stepan had 138 hits--almost twice as many as Artie.

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04-10-2012, 11:23 AM
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vipernsx
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OP forgot to mention a few more points:
*Dubinsky is 25 in his 5th NHL season. AA is 23 and in his 3rd.
*Dubinsky and his agent negotiated a 4.2m salary cap, AA a 1.875 cap hit.
*Dubinsky has dropped off 20pts from last year, AA has dropped off less then half as much with only 8.
*This season AA has outscored Dubinsky.

Why point out last years stats? To show the standard that Dubinsky has failed to maintain?

Dubinsky at 25 is a veteran player on this team and one who has established his financial value and an standard of play. To the contrary AA is still a Jr player and one that is still improving. I didn't give Dubinsky flack for holding out and not taking the reigns of the #1 center with Jagr because he was till learning the way. I give AA the same leeway as a younger player.

Give AA 2 more years of NHL experience where he's established himself as a 50+ point player, let him play like at a lower standard and you bet I'm going to be highly critical of him.

Right now comparing AA to a player 2 years more experience than him would be like comparing a rookie to AA. Which for any rookie average rookie, wouldn't be a fair standard. Hagelin, isn't an average rookie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Not from me. I've been on AA all season. Even started a thread about him. Honestly, I'm surprised that AA has managed to stay on Torts' good side.
He's on Tort's good side? He's gone for long stretches on the 4th line. What's Tort's bad side look like, Hartford or being a healthy scratch for John Scott?

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04-10-2012, 11:23 AM
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I'm not entirely buying the opportunities argument.

Dubinsky got more ice time than Anisimov this season. More power play time as well. More even strength. More shorthanded. So unless Torts has been shifting the 3rd line more than the top 6 this season, the numbers suggest Dubi has gotten more of a legitimate shot.

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04-10-2012, 11:26 AM
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Dubinsky played hardball with the Rangers and the Rangers gave him the money he wanted. Good for Dubinsky. No one would turn down that $$

But, when you play hardball, you give yourself zero margin for error.

Hardball means you better deliver and deliver in tangible ways (i.e. points and goals). He didn't do that this year.

Even though Dubinsky's value is low now, there is enough uncertainty that he could return to 55-60 point status that he could fetch a high draft choice or a good prospect in the off-season.

If the Rangers hold onto him and he has another 10 goal, 30 point season in 2012-2013, then it will be more established that he is a 30 point player. At that point, he will be unmovable with that contract.

Anisimov is maddening because we see flashes of a power forward but he is inconsistent. The move that he pulled to score against the Flyers a week ago was a pure power forward move, especially with the split lip that he took after he scored. It's a move that he has shown a couple times over the last couple seasons.

If he could realize that he is capable of that on a regular basis, he would be a much different player.

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04-10-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Contributing factors:

Dubinsky 207 hits 36 blocked shots.

Anisimov 75 hits 46 blocked shots.

Anisimov blocked more shots but he's way behind Dubinsky in on ice aggression. You could pro rate Dubinsky's hits to Callahan's ice time and Brandon would be in the same neighborhood as Ryan. So would Boyle and Prust. They are all fierce forecheckers. Anisimov is very good defensively but he doesn't make anywhere near as much physical contact. Stepan had 138 hits--almost twice as many as Artie.
Blocks are an objective measurable statistic. Hits are a subjective stat is very much agreed upon are artificially inflated by MSG's statisticians.

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04-10-2012, 11:27 AM
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its a valid point and AA offensively had a down year but part of the reason he got a pass is that for big parts of the year he did the little things that helped the aa-step-gabby line go

but it all comes down to expections AND NOT simply expectations based on salary. its based on expectation for the players ability...if dubi was still making $1.8 mil this year, his season would still be just as crappy and disappointing as it is making $4 mil

AA had 18-26-44 last year, so I would have hoped for 20+ goals this year and he got 16.

But dubi had 24 goals last year, 20 the year before...i considered him a LOCK for 25 and expected him to get 30 and he ended up with 10...and thats not a 'well we paid him more so he should score more' expectation, that was an expectation based on his play regardless of salary...

the guy you expected to score 30 that scored 10 is far more disappointing then the guy you expected to score 20 and got 16.

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04-10-2012, 11:28 AM
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I think the problem with both Anisimov and Dubinsky is they lack hockey IQ. And neither of them know what kind of player they are.

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04-10-2012, 11:29 AM
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mug25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger_Engineer View Post
Anisimov is maddening because we see flashes of a power forward but he is inconsistent. The move that he pulled to score against the Flyers a week ago was a pure power forward move, especially with the split lip that he took after he scored. It's a move that he has shown a couple times over the last couple seasons.
Agreed. To me, Anisimov is far more frustrating than Dubinsky. When you see AA pull off a move like that against the Flyers then you have to wait a month to see him do it again is really frustrating.

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04-10-2012, 11:48 AM
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Dubinsky and Anisimov are both frustrating.

Anisimov is the more skilled player but we only see flashes of it. He takes too long to get his shot off. He puts himself in a position where he is vulnerable to being hit. Being given the opportunity to play on the top line with Stepan and Gaborik, he should have set career highs instead of regressing.

Dubinsky has the physical tools to be a power forward, but he doesn't always use it to his advantage. This season, he was far too hesitant to shoot the puck. Although Dubinsky usually puts in a good effort, his decision-making is suspect.

I hope both of them pick it up for the playoffs. However, I have my doubts about whether Anisimov can handle the physical elements of the playoff grind.

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04-10-2012, 01:16 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Blocks are an objective measurable statistic. Hits are a subjective stat is very much agreed upon are artificially inflated by MSG's statisticians.
Both players play under the eyes of the same statisticians. 207 is far more than 75. Sorry Anisimov is not a very physical player--not compared to Dubinsky anyway and there's no parsing that. Until this season Brandon never put up less than 40 points in any single year. Anisimov now has scored less then 40 two seasons out of three. Both players had down seasons as far as point production from last year.

To go further Anisimov was on the Rangers top line with Stepan and Gaborik roughly from game #12 against Montreal through game #41 vs. Ottawa. He had 22 points in the first half of the season (mostly on Gaborik's line) 14 in the second. Dubinsky's were 21 first half and 13 in the second half--not all that much opportunity with Richards or Gaborik. Not much difference production wise but Anisimov overall had more opportunity to play with better players.

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04-10-2012, 01:53 PM
  #25
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Why use last years numbers? Last year I cant remember anyone being on Dubi's case as they have been this year?

To me, it's Salary vs Production and the idea of who to perhaps remove for an upgrade. In addition I think Dubi seems like a bit of an ass, haha.

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