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Could Chara win another Norris?

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04-08-2012, 10:11 PM
  #251
Mr. Make-Believe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coladin View Post
Read this thread and tell me it has nothing to do with being a Bruins fan, the blinders are on very tight in here, as they are in Ottawa. The only diff is we had Chara and know what he brings to the table.

I think both fanbases are fans of hockey, period...so if I were to say to you that no one in the NHL gets the puck out of their end as fast as EK, no one can play offense and still get back to play defense like Karlssonwhat would you say? The onkect of defense is to prevent goals, when he has the puck on his stick, they don't score, he gets it out and creates offence. That is how he plays defense which I am sure to some purists is wrong, but you can watch clips of Orr and clips of Karlsson, yes I said it, and you can look at some similarities. Please don't go all ape **** and say I made a direct comparison, I said similarities.

Tha tap-in he missed, how many d get in that position? How many get back in the play?

He is just very different defenceman, someone who I don't think many of you, or the writers, are ready to embrace.
If you think THIS is a stronger argument for the Norris trophy than what I wrote earlier, you're the one with the fan bias.

You're saying he's good at transition and making up for failed pinches.

And you can tell me that I'm not on board with your guy all you want. That doesn't make it true. I could come up with a stronger argument than you just made... And I don't even believe he should win!

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04-09-2012, 04:33 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
It IS defined.

The Norris Trophy goes to the top "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position." You cannot get any clearer than that.

Greatest all-around ability in the position does not mean top scorer. It does not mean the best defensive defenseman. It means exactly what it says. If a media member can't figure that out, I have to wonder how he makes it to work each day.
Thank you! I think people sometimes tend to get blinded by points and forget that defensemen are called that for a reason.

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04-09-2012, 07:33 PM
  #253
ManicMoonlight
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Man, that Sureves guy on the main board is a hoot.

"Karlsson fits my definition of best defenseman, so he should win and any arguments for anyone other than Weber are completely unfounded, baseless and asinine. My stats that I rely on more than actually watching games say so!"

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04-09-2012, 07:38 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManicMoonlight View Post
Man, that Sureves guy on the main board is a hoot.

"Karlsson fits my definition of best defenseman, so he should win and any arguments for anyone other than Weber are completely unfounded, baseless and asinine. My stats that I rely on more than actually watching games say so!"
No ****, eh? I realized pretty quickly that he was irrationally wedded to his belief that Karlsson was not just the best defenseman, but also the best player in the NHL, the man who created the game of hockey, and the next in line for the throne, so I just bowed out of the argument with him.

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04-09-2012, 07:46 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by BigBadLooch View Post
No ****, eh? I realized pretty quickly that he was irrationally wedded to his belief that Karlsson was not just the best defenseman, but also the best player in the NHL, the man who created the game of hockey, and the next in line for the throne, so I just bowed out of the argument with him.
Yeah, I mean, his passion for Karlsson winning the Norris is adorable, but when you wanna give the Norris to the guy who ranks 7th on his team for defenseman in PK TOI/game, and your team dresses 6 defenseman per game...yeah. I know that argument is being beat like a rented mule, but come on; just ain't right.

And the "they play him to his strengths" argument? If they did that...he'd kill penalties. You know, being a DEFENSEMAN and all.

Sorry, I just get kinda mad when people use stats to define careers and success more than actually watching what happens. Almost all "stats" people throw out mean squat most of the time.

Karlsson will get a nomination, sure, but the top 3 should be Chara, Weber, Karlsson. Flip Z and Shea for all I care, wouldn't be mad either way; just don't let Erik win.

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04-09-2012, 07:50 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadLooch View Post
No ****, eh? I realized pretty quickly that he was irrationally wedded to his belief that Karlsson was not just the best defenseman, but also the best player in the NHL, the man who created the game of hockey, and the next in line for the throne, so I just bowed out of the argument with him.
I thought his comment about "just wanting folks to admit that EK is the best defenseman even if he isn't the best all-around defenseman" was one of the funniest in the thread (dedicated to an award given to the best all-around defenseman).

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04-09-2012, 08:42 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Spoked-B View Post
I thought his comment about "just wanting folks to admit that EK is the best defenseman even if he isn't the best all-around defenseman" was one of the funniest in the thread (dedicated to an award given to the best all-around defenseman).
I actually facepalmed IRL when I read that one.

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04-09-2012, 10:19 PM
  #258
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I hope Chara wins another Norris just to piss off Montreal fans

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04-10-2012, 12:32 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManicMoonlight View Post
Man, that Sureves guy on the main board is a hoot.

"Karlsson fits my definition of best defenseman, so he should win and any arguments for anyone other than Weber are completely unfounded, baseless and asinine. My stats that I rely on more than actually watching games say so!"
Oh ya, lol.

Some of those sens fans are just ridiculous. I'm completely amazed that they can't understand the concept of using production rates to make a comparison. "You can't just give more points to Chara". Gee, thanks captain obvious. But am I just supposed to ignore the fact that Karlsson was given 50% more power play time than Chara (53 full powerplays!) and assume he really is 25 points better offensively?

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04-10-2012, 06:24 AM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrywally23 View Post
I hope Chara wins another Norris just to piss off Montreal fans
Being defending Champs, and them missing the playoffs is all I need to feel confident they are a touch peeved

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04-10-2012, 10:08 AM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesy View Post
They have defined it. The Norris is awarded to the defenseman who displays the best all-around ability in his position. That to me includes defense, offense, physicality, PK, etc. All the aspects that a d-man can excel at. And Chara is great at pretty much all of them.
It needs to be clarified- just the fact that you had to preface with "to me that includes" shows that it is too vague.

Lidstrom is awesome...but he won the trophy has best Defenseman with a +/- of -2.

That is a joke.

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Old
04-10-2012, 01:23 PM
  #262
coladin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCBruin View Post
It needs to be clarified- just the fact that you had to preface with "to me that includes" shows that it is too vague.

Lidstrom is awesome...but he won the trophy has best Defenseman with a +/- of -2.

That is a joke.
I agree, and the fact that Lidstrom won it may mean that the old boys club who voted Lidstrom will either vote Chara the next five years, regardless of stats, or they will assign it to Weber because it is "his turn" that bull ****.

The bottom line is this, is Karlsson finishing top 10 in scoring enough to overthrow Chara's all around game? I don't know the answer to that, but I do know this, Mike Green was 28th in points when he 31 goals. Karlsson would lead 2/3 of NHL teams in scoring.

I am not saying it is right or wrong but in the day and age of fans, writers moaning about the lack of scoring and how the game is reverting back to how it was, Karlsson may get more votes that you and I may think.

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