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Snow:expect no major changes

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Old
04-10-2012, 11:36 AM
  #51
boredmale
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Not a fan of Wang.... but there's so much wrong with what you said, I don't even know where to start.
Not sure if this is true or not but I hear when Wang cries how he is losing money he fails to mention that the Islanders tv contract is not included in total revenue for the team

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04-10-2012, 12:55 PM
  #52
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So in other words, Islanders fans can expect no major changes to where they finish next year either.

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04-10-2012, 01:11 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
So in other words, Islanders fans can expect no major changes to where they finish next year either.
For most of the Islanders key players one year older means 1 year better(which probably means 8-12 in the conference)

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04-10-2012, 01:19 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Okposo started the season 0 goals,3 assists in 15 games.He ended the season with 9 goals in his last 9 games.You don't think starting the season 9 goals in 9 games would not have had a huge impact on the 2nd line?Helped Grabner and Nielsen get off to solid starts?

The lack of secondary scoring was a big problem all season.

Can 24yr olds Okposo be and Grabner, be more consistent?Isles are counting on them to be so.

Isles defense is turning over this summer with only Streit/Hamonic/MacDonald signed for next season.Isles think very highly of pmd De Haan and Donovan.Can they be any worse then Eason,Mottou,Staios and Jurcina?

So it's going to take another 4-5 yrs for Strome,Nelson,Kabanov to make an impact?Funny because within 2-3 yrs of being drafted the isle have gotten positive contributions from Hamonic,Tavares,Cizikas,Ullstrom.

I'm not counting on Strome or Nelson next season,but I do expect at least one will be in the NYI top 6 by 2013-2014 and contributing.
The same for one of Poulin/Nilson.

Just because Snow says don't expect major changes,does not mean he does not expect improvement.He expects it to come from his young players.Instead of fans acting like lemmings "omg,Snow's not going to do anything to improve the isles',fans should read Snow's comments and realize he's putting his team's improvement in the hands of Okposo,Grabner,kids like Hamonic/De Haan.
I'm not trying to cut the Isl's down, it's just an observation that patience isn't always the answer, sometimes you need to assist in the building by adding stuff from the outside.

With young guys you tend to get inconsistencies over the coarse of a season - like the Islanders saw with KO and to an extent Grabner this season.

I think it will take 4-5 years for the young players to reach their potential and overcome the ups and downs that a young player goes through. I'm happy that Ullstrom and Cizikas looked good this season but they averaged around 11 min/gm in limited time so I wouldn't be ready to crown them successes over an 82 game season.

If I was the Islanders GM, I would be looking at teams up against the cap and try to use the prospects and cap space to add a couple roster players in deal similar to what Atlanta did to get Ladd and Buf, or what Florida did to get Campbell. Just my opinion.

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04-10-2012, 01:20 PM
  #55
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Still think Ron Hainsey makes a lot of sense cap hit of 4.5 salary is only 3.0 top 4 guy. Jets should be looking at a defensive D man to play with Buffy, one of Garrison, Jackman, Zanon.

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04-10-2012, 01:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
You don't think Tavares wasn't aware, they were building with home grown talent?

Just because some nyi fans ignore reality of having to build through the draft,doesn't mean nyi players do
You can't ONLY build through the draft. You need to fill the holes by free agency or trades. Look at every contending team. There's not one that is 100% homegrown. Everyone has added pieces through one route or another.

Boston - Chara, Thomas, Horton etc.
Rangers - Richards, Gaborik
Devils - Kovalchuk, Volchenkov
Blues - Arnott, Stewart, Halak
Panthers - Entire Team
Penguins - Neal, Kunitz, Michalek, NIskanen, Martin

The team that comes closest is the Canucks and a lot of that was due to the price they paid to get both sedins drafted together. They also traded for Luongo.

So while the Canucks can consider both Sedins homegrown, they still paid a premium to get that high pick and thankfully for them it paid off.

Most teams have a lot of there big pieces added through free agency. The islanders aren't going to survive with just Tavares and Hamonic as top tier players. They will need to add a top flight winger, a top flight d-man and a good, long term solution at goalie (i.e schneider).

There is no way to build a team through entirely the draft.

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04-10-2012, 01:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Wpgpage View Post
Still think Ron Hainsey makes a lot of sense cap hit of 4.5 salary is only 3.0 top 4 guy. Jets should be looking at a defensive D man to play with Buffy, one of Garrison, Jackman, Zanon.
If Calgary is looking to trade J-Bo that would be my choice

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04-10-2012, 01:43 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
For most of the Islanders key players one year older means 1 year better(which probably means 8-12 in the conference)
I think this is a bit of a false assumption. Players don't improve just because they're a year older. I think we had a similar discussion last summer when discussing the Isles finishing Top-10 in offense.

The Isles were a year older this year than they were last season, and what did that yield them? They went from finishing fourth last to finishing fourth last. While their point total increased, where they actually finished overall in the league stayed the same.

And really, they were much healthier this year than last year. Their core guys didn't miss much time, if at all, this year, as compared to last year where Streit was gone for the year, Okposo for half the year, and guys like Macdonald and Hamonic (call-up due to injuries) only played around 60 games.

So one could even argue they didn't make any strides this year as a team, because those additional points were more due to having a full roster this year than because of any other reason.

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04-10-2012, 01:44 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
I'm not trying to cut the Isl's down, it's just an observation that patience isn't always the answer, sometimes you need to assist in the building by adding stuff from the outside.

With young guys you tend to get inconsistencies over the coarse of a season - like the Islanders saw with KO and to an extent Grabner this season.

I think it will take 4-5 years for the young players to reach their potential and overcome the ups and downs that a young player goes through. I'm happy that Ullstrom and Cizikas looked good this season but they averaged around 11 min/gm in limited time so I wouldn't be ready to crown them successes over an 82 game season.

If I was the Islanders GM, I would be looking at teams up against the cap and try to use the prospects and cap space to add a couple roster players in deal similar to what Atlanta did to get Ladd and Buf, or what Florida did to get Campbell. Just my opinion.

The isles budget handicaps what Snow can do.That won't change until 2015.What is the point over crying over that?Snow is correct to look for trades that make sense for both the long term and short term.

A Pens fan suggested Nino for Staal.When it was pointed out that Staal is a ufa in 2013 and unlikely to sign an extension, that would fit into the NYI budget,he still argued it would be a good deal for the nyi

Snow has shopped his last two lottery picks at the drafts and not found a trade partner,willing to trade a young player,with similar upside.I have no complaints with his demanding a quality for quality trade.

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04-10-2012, 01:45 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
That may be true but the Islanders have hardly been known as the best team to utilise players properly and whilst that could change with the likes of Strome and Nino coming through It remains to be seen.

How long will the Islanders fans take continually being at the bottom end though as they are proud hockey franchise but there's only so much a fan can take and if they're not expecting anything until 2015 it doesn't sound good for the future of the franchise. I don't expect them to move but should they fail to get that new arena I could see them playing out of state or in New York itself.


After this upcoming draft, the Islanders will have the best or at worst the second-best prospect corps in the league. They also have a lot of good young players already on the roster. There's no reason to change the course now just because the team has been suffering for almost 20 years. It will merely prolong the suffering. You'd be going back to the Milbury way of running the franchise, which is what ruined it.

Stay the course. Trade Streit for picks and/or prospects. This will save the team his $4.1 salary and allow them to add more youth to the team.

They will probably have a #4 overall pick this year and almost certainly another top-10 (maybe top-5) pick next year. This will allow the team to reload big time just when the stadium issue will hopefully be resolved.

There's no quick solution for the Islanders. You can take your team into the playoffs by ruining its youth, but you can't make it a contender other than by adding more young guns who will only blossom in 2-4 years.

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04-10-2012, 01:45 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I think this is a bit of a false assumption. Players don't improve just because they're a year older. I think we had a similar discussion last summer when discussing the Isles finishing Top-10 in offense.
Most players generally have peak seasons(assuming they don't become injury prone) between 25-30 so as more Islanders get close to that point in theory they should improve a bit

All that being said, as I mentioned the previous page the Islanders really need to look to upgrade the defense more then anything.

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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
The Isles were a year older this year than they were last season, and what did that yield them? They went from finishing fifth last to finishing fourth last. While their point total increased, where they actually finished overall in the league got worse
They actually finished 4th worst last year and lost the draft lottery to pick 5th


Last edited by boredmale: 04-10-2012 at 01:51 PM.
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04-10-2012, 02:00 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I think this is a bit of a false assumption. Players don't improve just because they're a year older. I think we had a similar discussion last summer when discussing the Isles finishing Top-10 in offense.

The Isles were a year older this year than they were last season, and what did that yield them? They went from finishing fifth last to finishing fourth last. While their point total increased, where they actually finished overall in the league got worse.

And really, they were much healthier this year than last year. Their core guys didn't miss much time, if at all, this year, as compared to last year where Streit was gone for the year, Okposo for half the year, and guys like Macdonald and Hamonic (call-up due to injuries) only played around 60 games.

So one could even argue they didn't make any strides this year as a team, because those additional points were more due to having a full roster this year than because of any other reason.
Isles had an aging Staois,an over the hill Mottou and Eaton/Jurcina on 1 yr deals?
Why? Because it allowed them to give top blueline prospects De Haan and Donovan, a full rookie season in the AHL.De Haan was named to the all-star team and Donovan finished 8th in scoring among d-men.Both looked good in brief callups this season.Both will compete for an nhl spot in training camp.

Were they,along with Ness, better off with a full yr in the AHL,instead of being rushed into the NYI top 4?

Isles got nothing from Rolston,who earned a team high $5m.But,having Rolston/Pandolfo on 1 yr deals kept Strome/Kabanov developing in juniors for 1 more yr and Nelson/Lee developing in college 1 more yr.

Early this season,I'd have bet money that Okposo would not sniff 20 goals,let alone 24.He turned 24 in April.I don't think anyone can predict if he's turning the corner or will continue to be so inconsistent.

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04-10-2012, 02:10 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Early this season,I'd have bet money that Okposo would not sniff 20 goals,let alone 24.He turned 24 in April.I don't think anyone can predict if he's turning the corner or will continue to be so inconsistent.
On a bad note he hit many less posts this year then last year. lol

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04-10-2012, 02:14 PM
  #64
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Isle seem to be in a tough spot. They horribly mis-use guys like Nino, and only keep him up for his cap hit. What do they learn from that experiment? They apparently are going to rely on a completely unproven rookie at #2 center next year (Strome or Nelson).

I'm not an Isles hater by any stretch. I just don't see how they can expect to make progress as a team by filling the roster with stiffs, and throwing kids who aren't ready in the deep end of the swimming pool and expect them to produce.

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04-10-2012, 02:18 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post



The isles budget handicaps what Snow can do.That won't change until 2015.What is the point over crying over that?Snow is correct to look for trades that make sense for both the long term and short term.

A Pens fan suggested Nino for Staal.When it was pointed out that Staal is a ufa in 2013 and unlikely to sign an extension, that would fit into the NYI budget,he still argued it would be a good deal for the nyi

Snow has shopped his last two lottery picks at the drafts and not found a trade partner,willing to trade a young player,with similar upside.I have no complaints with his demanding a quality for quality trade.
So then do you see the Islanders as an improved team next season without any major moves? Do you think the playoffs are a realistic goal? I personally don't but you must.

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04-10-2012, 02:19 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by The Hockey Agent View Post
You can't ONLY build through the draft. You need to fill the holes by free agency or trades. Look at every contending team. There's not one that is 100% homegrown. Everyone has added pieces through one route or another.

Boston - Chara, Thomas, Horton etc.
Rangers - Richards, Gaborik
Devils - Kovalchuk, Volchenkov
Blues - Arnott, Stewart, Halak
Panthers - Entire Team
Penguins - Neal, Kunitz, Michalek, NIskanen, Martin

The team that comes closest is the Canucks and a lot of that was due to the price they paid to get both sedins drafted together. They also traded for Luongo.

So while the Canucks can consider both Sedins homegrown, they still paid a premium to get that high pick and thankfully for them it paid off.

Most teams have a lot of there big pieces added through free agency. The islanders aren't going to survive with just Tavares and Hamonic as top tier players. They will need to add a top flight winger, a top flight d-man and a good, long term solution at goalie (i.e schneider).

There is no way to build a team through entirely the draft.
Agents have said Snow made higher offers for Martin and Hamhuis.
Last June we saw Snow trade for Erhoff's rights and offer him a 6 yr/$33m contract.

Both Moulson and Parenteau were ufa signings.

What should Snow do?Force ufas sign against their will? Makes trades that don't fit into his budget?

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04-10-2012, 02:21 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Isle seem to be in a tough spot. They horribly mis-use guys like Nino, and only keep him up for his cap hit. What do they learn from that experiment? They apparently are going to rely on a completely unproven rookie at #2 center next year (Strome or Nelson).

I'm not an Isles hater by any stretch. I just don't see how they can expect to make progress as a team by filling the roster with stiffs, and throwing kids who aren't ready in the deep end of the swimming pool and expect them to produce.
Who said anything about Strome or Nelson making the team next year? Untill something happens at the end of traing camp, Frans Nielsen is our 2nd line center.

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04-10-2012, 02:25 PM
  #68
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I suppose they would be better suited sacrificing prospects to find the next Alexei Yashin?
I think some NYI fans are so scarred that they truly think this is the only thing that could happen if Snow went out to try to get some help.

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04-10-2012, 02:43 PM
  #69
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I think some NYI fans are so scarred that they truly think this is the only thing that could happen if Snow went out to try to get some help.
Maybe not the only thing, but the chance of it happening creates a tangible wall that must be overcome.

Make no mistake, though - if Garth announces a trade where he ships, say, Donovan, Strome and Petrov off for Nash*, there will be fans who are certain that history has repeated itself, and even those who wouldn't be certain would be worried about the possibility of it.

* This trade is being used as an example only - I am not proposing this trade, nor have I considered whether the payments are the least bit fair - the point is that our unknowns will always be seen in the best possible light, especially considering our previous GM's history of trading such developing assets who blossomed into high-end talent for other franchises.

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04-10-2012, 02:53 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Most players generally have peak seasons(assuming they don't become injury prone) between 25-30 so as more Islanders get close to that point in theory they should improve a bit
But it's still placing a high percentage of your hope that all the Isles' core guys will improve just because they're a year older. With a guy like Tavares, who has shown marked improvement each year, that's one thing. With other guys, who haven't really shown much growth (and in Grabner's case, major regression), is where I think it's more wishful thinking than based on actual evidence.

But overall, I think Snow's plan is foolhardy to believe his team will improve just by the development of his draft picks, without adding significant pieces from outside the draft. No team that has won the Cup has had their core entirely made up of drafted players. Detroit, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston, Anaheim, etc., all of those teams had core guys who were big parts of their Cup win who weren't drafted by the team. Yet Snow's going to buck that trend and win with his entire team built through the draft, with only the occasional over the hill vet like Pandolfo or Rolston sprinkled in the 3rd or 4th line?

Quote:
They actually finished 4th worst last year and lost the draft lottery to pick 5th
Yeah, I edited my post after I remembered the Devils won the lottery and jumped ahead of the Isles in the draft. The general point remains, however; the Isles are one year older, but their place in the league standings didn't improve.

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04-10-2012, 03:08 PM
  #71
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If this was any other owner besides Wang, I would hope the Isles pull a Chicago - Brian Campbell like signing with Suter this offseason, showing the league that the Isles are ready to emerge from the rebuild through the draft mode and are ready to fully compete.

Of course since this is Wang and Snow, we will not do this but instead sign some PTO players or near the end of the road Vets with crazy incentives.

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04-10-2012, 03:13 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by IsleNmetFan4Life View Post
i wish we were only semi-laughingstocks.
i actually have soo much respect for NYI fanbase for the dedication to there team even tho they signed some stupid contracts and still have snow as gm. I love fans dedicated to there team and not cheering for the best team in the NHL. i dont consider them fans. So IMO your not laughing stocks your management is lol.

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04-10-2012, 03:20 PM
  #73
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i actually have soo much respect for NYI fanbase for the dedication to there team even tho they signed some stupid contracts and still have snow as gm.
You can only blame snow so much. When you have an owner that seems to want to find ways to keep the payroll as low as possible, what type of on ice product do you expect.

I mentioned this in an Islanders thread but I will say it here let's say the Islanders traded for 3 "bad contracts" last summer(Campbell, Gomez and Komisarek) those 3 still wouldn't put us over the cap and we would most likely have been a better team.

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04-10-2012, 03:53 PM
  #74
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TBL got some big names and good players both on offense and defense and they did not make the playoffs....


If were not making major changes I hope we atleast make a few.....

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