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Twenty years of Soviet Hockey: 1962 - 1982

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Old
03-27-2011, 07:44 PM
  #51
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
http://www.passionhockey.com/Archives.html

URSS 1980-81: ╔lection des meilleurs joueurs : 1 Vladislav Tretiak (CSKA) 158, 2 Aleksandr Maltsev (Dynamo) 121, 3 Sergue´ Kapustin (Spartak) 53, 4 Sergue´ Makarov (CSKA) 35, 5 Vladimir Petrov (CSKA) 28.
Unfortunately, they don't see to have the full voting for every season.

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Old
03-29-2011, 01:06 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Unfortunately, they don't see to have the full voting for every season.
Nop, only Top-5 for every season, which is still very good in any case!

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03-29-2011, 01:21 AM
  #53
TheDevilMadeMe
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Mon francais est tres mal, but I believe ther are some years (80 or 82 i was complaining about) where they have no results at all

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03-29-2011, 07:51 AM
  #54
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The top 5 are there for every year of the 80s.

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03-29-2011, 12:45 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
The top 5 are there for every year of the 80s.
Can one of you guys give a direct link to a page that has voting for one year? I don't speak any French, but hopefully I can figure it out from there.

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Old
03-29-2011, 02:14 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Can one of you guys give a direct link to a page that has voting for one year? I don't speak any French, but hopefully I can figure it out from there.
I don't think direct linking within that site works. No matter where you are, the URL in the address bar is the same.

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03-29-2011, 02:25 PM
  #57
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I don't think direct linking within that site works. No matter where you are, the URL in the address bar is the same.
Yes you are right. Maybe someone could post directions on how to get to one of the voting pages? I would be happy to put all the voting results into a table if I could just find them.

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Old
03-29-2011, 02:35 PM
  #58
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Scroll down to whatever year you want. You need to use the scroll bars for both the page and the frame to find every year.

Find the league you want, in this case it would be URSS and not USSR.

Look for: ╔lection des meilleurs joueurs

You can find a link to the next season at the bottom of each year/league page.

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03-29-2011, 02:55 PM
  #59
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
Scroll down to whatever year you want. You need to use the scroll bars for both the page and the frame to find every year.

Find the league you want, in this case it would be URSS and not USSR.

Look for: ╔lection des meilleurs joueurs

You can find a link to the next season at the bottom of each year/league page.
Got it. Thanks for the help!

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Old
03-29-2011, 03:58 PM
  #60
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Soviet MVP Voting Results - Top 5

67-68
1 A. Firsov 137
2 V. Starshinov 84
3 V. Konovalenko 49
4 E. Zimin 13
5 A. Ragulin 5
68-69
1 A. Firsov 68
2 V. Zinger 63
3 V. Starshinov 56
4 V. Kharlamov 51
5 B. Mikhailov 30
69-70
1 V. Konovalenko 124
2 A. Maltsev 104
3 V. Starshinov 83
4 V. Vikulov 48
5 V. Kharlamov 20
70-71
1 A. Firsov 134
2 V. Vikulov 70
3 A. Maltsev 70
4 V. Kharlamov 61
5 V. Tretiak 12
71-72
1 A. Maltsev 130 (27-22-5)
2 V Kharlamov 130 (25-25-5)
3 V. Vikulov 35
4 A. Yakushev
5 V. Tretiak
72-73
1 V. Kharlamov 107
2 V. Petrov 104
3 V. Tretiak 40
4 B. Mikhailov 34
5 V. Vasiliev 10
73-74
1 V. Tretiak 113
2 B. Mikhailov 67
3 V. Vasiliev 39
4 A. Maltsev 38
5 V. Kharlamov 26
74-75
1 V. Tretiak 107
2 V. Kharlamov 81
3 A. Yakushev 58
4 V. Petrov 49
5 B. Mikhailov 44
75-76
1 V. Tretiak 139
2 V. Kharlamov 107
3 V. Shalimov 38
4 A. Maltsev 28
5 A. Yakushev 17
76-77
1 H. Balderis 166
2 V. Petrov 90
3 B. Mikhailov
4 V. Tretiak 73
5 V. Pervuhkin 14
77-78
1 B. Mikhailov 128
2 V. Tretiak 110
3 V. Fetisov 61
4 A. Maltsev 33
5 H. Balderis 29
78-79
1 B. Mikhailov
2
3
4
5
79-80
1 S. Makarov 156
2 V. Krutov 68
3 B. Mikhailov 49
4 A. Maltsev* 38
5 V. Vasiliev 27
80-81
1 V. Tretiak 158
2 A. Maltsev 121
3 S. Kaputsin 53
4 S. Makarov 35
5 V. Petrov 28
81-82
1 V. Fetisov 116
2 S. Makarov 102
3 V. Tretiak 63
4 V. Shalimov 49
5 A. Kozhevnikov 34
82-83
1 V. Tretiak 222
2 V. Krutov 111
3 S. Makarov 50
4 V. Fetisov 44
5 A. Kasatonov 29
83-84
1 N. Drozdetsky 132
2 V. Tretiak 114
3 V. Fetisov 82
4 S. Makarov 78
5 V. Kovin 34
84-85
1 S. Makarov 230
2 V. Fetisov 122
3 Y. Leonov 26
4 V. Myshkin 25
5 V. Pervukhin 22
85-86
1 V. Fetisov 184
2 S. Makarov 169
3 V. Krutov 126
4 I. Larionov 35
5 V. Bykov 14
86-87
1 V. Krutov 264
2 Belosheikin 80
3 S. Makarov 69
4 I. Larionov 28
5 V. Fetisov 27
87-88
1 I. Larionov 142
2 V. Fetisov 129
3 V. Krutov 94
4 S. Makarov 41
5 A. Irbe 39
88-89
1 S. Makarov 146
2 V. Bykov 130
3 V. Fetisov 110
4 S. Mylnikov 28
5 V. Krutov 11
89-90
1 A. Khomutov 155
2 A. Irbe 140
3 V. Bykov 78
4 M. Tatarinov 53
5 V. Kamensky 16
90-91
1 V. Kamensky 166
2 P. Bure 53
3 A. Semak 45
4 A. Trefilov 40
5 A. Maryn 26


*Chidlovski has different results for 79-80: Chidlovski results have Vasiliev 4th and Kharlamov 5th. Maltsev is completely missing from their top 20.

Source: http://www.passionhockey.com/Archives.html

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Old
08-02-2011, 09:49 PM
  #61
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I'll also select talented RW Yevgeny Zimin



2x Soviet League Champion
2x Olympic Gold Medalist
27 goals in 71 career National Team games(.3803 goals/game)
185 goals in 315 career Soviet League games(.5873 goals/game)
Soviet Hockey Hall of Fame Member
4th in Soviet MVP voting(67-68)

Quote:
Evgeny Zimin was one of the most talented and promising Soviet forwards. At 21, he won the Olympics. At 22, he captured his second USSR gold with the Spartak Moscow that managed to challenge mighty CSKA powerhouse in the 1960's. Zimin didn't have an impressive size, but he established himself as a fast skater, slick puck carrier and a sound scorer. By 1972, he was a 2-time Olympic champion and one of the top guns of Team USSR. He is an author of the first goal scored by Team USSR in the Summit. Unfortunately, his career in the top level hockey wasn't long. Drafted to the Soviet Army, Zimin never played for the CSKA, the biggest rival of his Spartak.
http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1...oster/ru11.htm

Quote:
One would wonder if the series would have been different had Evgeny Zimin played all 8 games. He left after 2 games, due to
an injury Zimin scored two big goals in game number one, and was part of the powerful Soviet powerplay.


Zimin scored perhaps the most important Soviet goal of the entire series. It was also the first goal of the series for the Russians.

With Canada already leading 2-0 in game one, it was Zimin who put an end to the Canadian's early momentum, scoring at the 11:40 mark.

"The first goal scored by Yevgeny Zimin, inspired the Soviet players," said Igor Kuperman. "It proved to them that they could score against the best NHL professionals. After his goal they scored again and again. The smallest player on the team had scored the biggest goal.".

Yevgeny Zimin was a fine player who possessed explosive speed. His performance in the 1972 Summit Series instantly compared him to Canada's "Roadrunner" - Yvan Cournoyer, or to a later superstar - Guy Lafleur. Old time Russian fans would favourably compare Zimin to Alexander Almetov. Russian fans knew he had the ability to wow onlookers like precious few hockey players can.

Zimin was an individualist, which in Soviet hockey was frowned upon. Correct that - in Anatoli Tarasov's hockey it was frowned upon. But under Vsevolod Bobrov's guidance a solo artist of such high skill as Zimin could thrive. Bobrov would coach Zimin though much of his club career with Spartak, and also briefly on the national team, including the 1972 Summit Series.
http://www.1972summitseries.com/zimin.html

Quote:
The puck seemed to be glued to Yevgeny Zimin's stick and the small, agile player could zip around the ice for sheer joy
http://www.google.com/search?q=yevge...og&sa=N&tab=wp

Quote:
Yevgeny Zimin, a fine player, a contemporary of Almetov's...

A player who knew Bobrov well was the hockey prodigy, the boy who made it to the big leagues at age 16, Yevgeny Zimin
http://www.google.com/search?q=yevge...og&sa=N&tab=wp

Quote:
A strong bid for places in the forward line has been made by Alexander Yakushev, xxx and Yevgeny Zimin (all of Spartak)
http://www.google.com/search?q=yevge...og&sa=N&tab=wp

Quote:
The Montrealers were particularly enamoured by the line of Alexander Yakushev, Evgeny Zimin, and Vladimir Shadrin, who would crisscross through the dizzy Canadians with blazing speed, notching two goals as they went.
http://www.google.com/search?q=yevge...w=1280&bih=838

Quote:
Yevgeny Zimin zipped around opposing defensemen to score two goals yesterday to lead Moscow Selects to a 4-2 exhibition victory over Canada's national hockey team.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...dq=zimin&hl=en

Quote:
Evgenie Zimin and Alexsander Maltsev, two strong regulars, didn't see action until the score had reached Canada couldn't have beaten Russia
http://www.google.com/search?q=zimin...w=1280&bih=838

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Old
08-02-2011, 09:50 PM
  #62
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LW Alexander Bodunov



2x World Championships Gold Medalist
4x Soviet League Champion
1974 Best Line Award Winner in Soviet League

Study of 2nd tier Soviet scorers

PlayerDraft PositionInternational GPGDomestic GPG
Alexander Bodunov1,122.407.545
Alexander Yakushev207.656.600
Vladimir Vikulov477.559.538
Vladimir Shadrin352.420.479
Yuri Lebedev786.179.383
Vyacheslav Anisin1,074.353.346
Viktor Zhluktov795.405.434
Sergei Kapustin877.577.536

As you can see, Bodunov has a better domestic GPG average than all of these guys, except Yakushev despite being picked much, much later than most. His international GPG isn't as impressive, but considering where he was picked in comparison to these guys being not so far off is still quite good. Offensively, he is on the same level as a lot of these guys that were picked way before him.

Quote:
Alexander Bodunov was one of the top scorers of the Soviet hockey in the 1970's. As an essential part of the promising Lebedev-Anisin-Bodunov line, he began his career playing for the Red Army club and, then, led the undistinguished Krylya Sovetov Moscow to the gold medals of the Soviet championship in 1974. His line was instrumental in various international tournaments played by Team USSR in that decade. Bodunov had an extremely powerful slapshot. He was famous for his goals scored after an instant rapid shot made without any visible preparations.
http://www.chidlovski.com/personal/1...oster/ru24.htm

Quote:
Alexander Bodunov left quite an impression on fans in Winnipeg during the 1972 Summit Series.

Bodunov was one of the members of the Soviet's "Kid Line," also dubbed the "Headache Line" by Canadian broadcaster Brian Conacher. Bodunov was the left winger who was introduced along with fellow linemates Viacheslav Anisin and Yuri Lebedev in game three of the series.

This trio re-energized the Soviets when the debuted in Winnipeg. The Soviets handily won game one, and even though they claim they felt like they played better in game 2, lost convincingly to a recharged Team Canada.

Game three was in many ways a very pivotal match. It ended in a tie but was a moral loss for Canada.

The key for the Soviets early success was the element of surprise they could utilize, as Canada knew almost nothing about their opponent. After two games Canada had learned much about them.

Then the kid line entered the scene.

Canada didn't pay much attention to these three unknowns prior to the game. Why would they? These three youngsters surely couldn't be better than any three players they replaced - if they were they would have been playing since game one. And the Soviets had publicly said that these three were being inserted so that they could "learn" and make themselves better players for the future.

But the Kid Line, as dubbed by the Canadian media, played a pivotal role in the game. Canada held a 4-2 lead half way through the second period when these kids took over. First at 14:59, Lebedev brought the Soviets back to within one goal. Then, with about 1 and 1/2 minutes left in the second stanza, Alexander Bodunov snapped home a shot from the crease to beat Tony Esposito and knot the game at 4.

Bodunov's goal proved to be the final goal of the game, as goalies Esposito and, in particular, Vladislav Tretiak shut the door.

After making quite a name for themselves in game 3 in Winnipeg, the Kid Line was not often heard from again, at least not as far as Canadians knew. The big names like Kharlamov, Petrov, Mikhailov and Tretiak would continue to be great players, but the three heroes of game 3 did not join them as Soviet stars.

The trio did leave CSKA Moscow to join Boris Kulagin to join Krylja Sovetov. The trio led the Moscow based team to an upset victory over CSKA in 1974 to claim the USSR league championship.

But they were not always used on the national team, or would be used separately, as the 1970s progressed.

On one night he could be the best player on the ice, but the next he would be nowhere to be found. He had a great arsenal of hockey talent, featuring his heavy shot and creative play making.
http://internationalhockeylegends.bl...r-bodunov.html

Quote:
Meanwhile, to everyone's surprise, Vsevolod Bobrov and Boris Kulagin made 5 changes to the Soviet team, inserting youth and more speed. The line of Alexander Bodunov and Yuri Lebedev, centered by Vyacheslav Anisin, I later dubbed the "Headache" Line, as that was what they became for Canada.
http://books.google.com/books?id=xKq...odunov&f=false

Quote:
Bodunov and Lebedev produced the last two Russian goals for the tie and Anisin, for fast, fast relief, helped set up both. At the end of the game, the young trio was skating strongly while Canada's veterans were tiring again.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...+bodunov&hl=en

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Old
08-02-2011, 11:34 PM
  #63
seventieslord
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Quote:
Meanwhile, to everyone's surprise, Vsevolod Bobrov and Boris Kulagin made 5 changes to the Soviet team, inserting youth and more speed. The line of Alexander Bodunov and Yuri Lebedev, centered by Vyacheslav Anisin, I later dubbed the "Headache" Line, as that was what they became for Canada.
I thought we called it that because Anisin is like the headache medicine Anacin.

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Old
02-15-2012, 06:18 AM
  #64
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Repost of what I wrote in the draft thread:

Based on what I have found, I think Triffy's analysis was most likely right on. Balderis seems to have been a player who would hold the puck and try to carry a line when on weak Riga teams or when his line was built to feed him, but he also seems to have been capable of sharing the puck when placed on strong lines, and was at any rate not a selfish player. Unfortunately, most google archives info on Balderis is locked up under pay-per-view pages, but as I have a NYT subscription, I can help out a bit. The below is all the relevant text from all the NYT articles I could find on Balderis (that really contained anything meaningful). I haven't left anything out that I know of.

Here is a snippet from a New York Times article I found on the 1979 Soviet National team when they played the Islanders in NY.

NYT - Dec 30, 1979:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...DA415B898BF1D3

Quote:
"Their passing and quickness are impressive," said xxxxxx, the Islanders' coach...

Then the Soviet team scored what proved to be the winning goal on breakaway rush by Sergei Makarov and Helmut Balderis, who traded passes until Makarov was able to put the puck behind a charging Smith...

Throughout the game, the Soviet team demonstrated an outstanding ability to move the puck and to anticipate the movements of their teammates.

"They practice 11 months a year," said xxxxx, who admitted he was impressed by the deftness and agility of the Red Army passing game. "They move it - and right away it's gone again."
This is mostly praise of the team and the Soviet passing system, but Balderis seems to have fit into that system (on a line with Makarov? This supports Triffy's assumption that they, in fact, played together at CSKA) well.

Another snippet from the Times:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...DD405B888BF1D3

NYT - May 13, 1978:

Quote:
The Soviet team had it much easier. After leading 2-0, in the first period, it broke the game open with fve goals in the second.

The first of these was by Helmut Balderis, who brought the puck up ice, passed to xxxxx, took a return pass just to the right of the goalie and put the puck away easily. The play had the economy and grace of poetry. The Swedes were so dazzled that their defense did little else but stand around and watch as Balderis scored two more goals in the romp.
Sounds like Balderis liked to use his linemates on the rush. Doesn't sound like a Bure/Kovalchuk type to me.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...8AD85F438785F9

NYT - January 11, 1977:

Quote:
The World Hockey Association's final record against the Soviet Union's national squad in a recent eight city tour was two victories and six losses, but the W.H.A. felt like a winner at the turnstiles...

Leading Soviet scorers in the series were Vladimir Petrov, with six goals and five assists in six games; Alexander Yakushev, seven goals, one assist in seven games, and Helmut Balderis, four goals, four assists in seven games.
Here's a really good one about Balderis and the Soviet team:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...DA405B898BF1D3

NYT - Feb 5, 1979:

Quote:
Everyone who has seen the team is impressed by its latest star, Helmut Balderis, who is hardly in the mold of the typically conforming player the squad usually boasts. For one thing, Balderis sports a moustache, the first of the current crop to do so. Before a recent game, when all the players were lined up for the national anthem, he stood out boldly: his socks were colored differently from everyone else's. He is also a Latvian, and it is said that he is quick to make a distinction if someone refers to him as a Russian.

But it is his performance that fans at the Garden will note most.

"He's got a lot of moves," said xxxxx. "He makes believe he's losing the puck, the defensemen comes up on him and gets too close, and then he controls the puck and pushes it between your legs."

A one-man give and go.

"Can he ever motor!" xxxxx said in admiration. "Oh, gee is he fast!"

Balderis plays the "off wing", that is, he is a left-handed shot playing the right side. He is the goal scorer. His center is the rangy, playmaking xxxxx, and his left wing is xxxxxx, a digger in the corners. Together, they are a classic combination, and they form the top Soviet line.
Interesting stuff. Maybe an even more interesting article about Balderis:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...DA405B898BF1D3

NYT - Feb 6, 1979:

Quote:
The first player to appear in uniform was Helmut Balderis, the huge 26 year-old right wing with a moustache the Volga boatmen would have cherished. "He is something," said a Canadian familiar with the Soviet team. "Over there, he is known as Elekritchka - The Electric Train."

Helmut Balderis is from Riga, a Baltic sea port in Latvia, where he was discovered by the Soviet coach, xxxxxx, and brought back to play for the Moscow Dynamo team. Of the Soviet players, he is the one to watch, the one that the NHL all-stars must contain. Some hockey people consider him the equal of Guy Lafleur, the Montreal Canadiens' elegant right wing. Among the Soviet players he is unusual in that he is the only one listed as a technologist. Most are listed as students, a few as teachers, and one is listed as a crane operator.

"He's also listed at 5-10 and 189 pounds," an onlooker mentioned later. "He looks twice that big to me."

Like his teammates, Helmut Balderis was wearing a red helmet (manufactured by a Canadian firm), red pants and red stockings. But he also had on a red practice sweater, signifying that he was a member of the number one forward line along with xxxxx, a lanky 26 year old center, and xxxxx, a 25 year old left wing. Other units wore green, blue or white sweaters. Helmut Balderis had the look of a star, leaning nonchalantly on the boards between rushes, the first to sit on the bench when his line was not scrimmaging. But when he was working, he displayed the burst of Earl Campbell turning the corner on a sweep."
The stylistic comparison to Lafleur seems pretty apt, I think. Here is a bit from after the end of the 1979 Summit series:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...DA405B898BF1D3

NYT - Feb 12, 1979:

Quote:
"That Mikhailov," said Bobby Clarke later. "He just laughed all the time. Heh, heh, like that. I'd laugh too, with a six goal lead." Boris Mikhailov, the captain, was named the Soviet team's most valuable player for the series.

He opened the scoring in the second period, after a spectacular opening 20 minutes that was probably the most fun to watch of any period in the series. Mikhailov's goal - after the puck was stolen from Montreal's Bob Gainey - was his third of the series and continued a Soviet stretch in which it scored the final nine goals of the competition.

Within two minutes, the Russians scored again, this time on a power play as xxxxx got his stick on a brilliant cross-ice pass from Helmut Balderis.
It's not a comprehensive look at this player, but from the text, we get a picture of Balderis as more Lafleur than Bure in style, and he seems to have been a huge star for a little while there. The Electric Train is a pretty cool nickname, as well.

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02-15-2012, 11:26 AM
  #65
BenchBrawl
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That's good man , I'll use all of this in my Balderis bio! thanks!!

seems Balderis was looking pretty huge for his size , so he was probably a strong player even if it doesn't mean he was physical , the Bure comparison looks more and more wrong.

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02-26-2012, 11:13 PM
  #66
EagleBelfour
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I thought we called it that because Anisin is like the headache medicine Anacin.
I just read that in the book 'The Red Machine', by Lawrence Martin, so I can confirm.

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03-20-2012, 06:00 AM
  #67
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Just throwing this out there. This is a new site I found that seems to have a lot of material on old Soviet players, and the games they played vs. North American teams. The videos section may be of particular interest.

http://brelshockey.net/index.php/en/

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04-10-2012, 01:07 PM
  #68
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Vladimir Petrov

I am very happy to see that Helmut Balderis is starting to get more recognition here. His value has been discussed quite thoroughly during the current ATD, and I feel his value has become very well known to the ATD participants. I have noticed that there is going to be a huge player ranking project in the history section. It is probably going to become an influental list, so I would like to make a case for Vladimir Petrov who I feel is still heavily underrated here, to get him proper recognition.

This is a thread I started a couple of years ago. It lists the most well-known Soviet players by their top 3 and top 5 points finishes in the Soviet league. It must be noted that not until mid-1970's were assists properly recorded in the Soviet league. Anyway, I think it is quite obvious that Makarov had the most illustrious Soviet league career. That is already well known. However, what I think is not well known is that looking at that list from my thread a couple of years ago, Vladimir Petrov has the second best scoring resume from the Soviet League (not counting Guryshev). He was a balanced offensive threat. He led the league in goal scoring twice (1970, 1973) and in assists four times (1975, 1977, 1978, 1979). All of the assists titles I have credited him with are from the period when assists were already recorded.

Here is another thread. The following table is a summary of Vs. #2 Numbers for several well-known Soviet players from that thread.

PlayerH5AVGH3AVG AVGXCLW
Makarov 1,266 1,303 1,195
Alexandrov 1,185 1,321 1,185
Petrov 1,154 1,237 1,034
Starshinov 1,094 1,180 1,005
Balderis 1,005 1,040 0,923
Krutov 0,986 1 0,969
Firsov 0,985 1,097 0,881
Mikhailov 0,974 1 0,927
Almetov 0,969 1,009 0,969
Maltsev 0,955 1,018 0,952
Kharlamov 0,927 1,001 0,957
Larionov 0,907 0,973 0,879

H5AVG tells the average of the five best seasons the player had.
H3AVG tells the average of the three best seasons the player had.
AVGXCLW tells the average of the seasons the player had in top 10 (or top 5, depending on the information available), except that the worst season is not taken into account.

Now Venyamin Alexandrov jumps second. However, his numbers are highly affected by his one gigantic season (1963), when he scored 53 goals, when the second best had 27 goals (it's quite remarkable that Makarov still beats him). I think this table again shows that Petrov was the second best Soviet league scorer, after Makarov. Only Starshinov is close to him.

Also, looking at the same thread, I have compared the world championships scoring results from Kharlamov, Petrov and Mikhailov and Maltsev for the tournaments they all played in (1969-1975).

Combined their stats look like this:

PlayerGPG A P
Kharlamov675053103
Petrov665349102
Mikhailov676542107
Maltsev696146107

The differences are minimal, and it is impossible to make arguments in favor of any of these players over the others.

Here is an all-time world championships scoring list. It's still close, but now there's at least a notable difference in favor of Mikhailov.

In Olympics, Kharlamov is head and shoulders above his linemates (I wonder if this is one of the main reasons for his reputation). However, for reasons unknown, Petrov and Mikhailov only played 7 games at the Olympic stage

The most significant drawback of this purely statistical evaluation of Vladimir Petrov's career is that he has a worse MVP voting record than both of his linemates. MVP Voting has been shown to be influenced by performances in national team. It remains unclear why Petrov has as bad MVP voting results as he does (here is the data), but I think it is something worth looking into. More precisely, I think it is likely that especially Olympics performances have had high significance in the MVP voting, but that should be more thoroughly looked into. That would explain Petrov's relatively poor MVP voting results.

So to conclude...

Petrov has the second best Soviet league scoring resume after Makarov. I think that's the most important thing to remember from this post. His success in world championships was also similar to his linemates. Petrov and Mikhailov only played 7 games in Olympics and Petrov's success in those games was worse than Kharlamov's and Mikhailov's. Petrov has a rather poor MVP voting record, but that is probably explained by his bad Olympics stats, and he should not be punished twice.

Questions that I'd like to hear your opinion on...

How would you rank Petrov and his linemates, and why?

Peter Stastny is an European center, usually ranked quite high among centers. How does Petrov compare to him?

Kharlamov is usually regarded at least a top-5 LW of all time. That would make him comparable to players such as Dickie Moore and Frank Mahovlich who played with or against players such as Henri Richard and Norm Ullman. How does Petrov compare to them?

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04-10-2012, 01:26 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I still find it really tough to rank Petrov. The disconnect between his stats and his rep is so large.

One thing to keep in mind is that chart will overrate Starshinov and underrate Firsov because of lack of assist recording. In the World Championships where assists were actually recorded, you can see just what a poor playmaker Starsh was. Firsov, on the other hand, was an excellent playmaker

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04-10-2012, 02:27 PM
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When I first saw Alexandrov in that chart I thought for a split second: OH MY GOD MR BUGG GOT A GEM WITH BORIS!!! Then I remembered Venjamin lol

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04-10-2012, 03:44 PM
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It really is weird about Petrov, because the stats are there and it appears that he had some intangibles, too. It's not apparent on the surface why his MVP voting was not as good as his linemates.

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When I first saw Alexandrov in that chart I thought for a split second: OH MY GOD MR BUGG GOT A GEM WITH BORIS!!! Then I remembered Venjamin lol

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04-10-2012, 03:58 PM
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Is it really possible that Kharlamov wasn't any better than his linemates, and is vastly overrated based off a couple of Olympics and the first few games of the Summit Series?

I don't know; so many Russian hockey fans swear he was the best Russian ever.

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04-10-2012, 04:41 PM
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I don't know; so many Russian hockey fans swear he was the best Russian ever.
Do we even know if that is based on a decade of watching most or all of their games in the soviet league and internationally? I mean, it could just be canon, right?

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04-10-2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
It really is weird about Petrov, because the stats are there and it appears that he had some intangibles, too. It's not apparent on the surface why his MVP voting was not as good as his linemates.
In the USSR before 1983, if the Communist Party said everyone had to vote a certain way, everyone had to vote that way or face death or permanent exile in Siberia.

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04-10-2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Do we even know if that is based on a decade of watching most or all of their games in the soviet league and internationally? I mean, it could just be canon, right?
Canon doesn't just come from nowhere though; it has to come from somewhere.

But it is possible that the "somewhere" was just a few high profile tournaments.

On the other hand, most of Kharlamov's prime was before 1975, when assist recording was very spotty domestically

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