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Playoffs - Game 1 - Line up

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Old
04-10-2012, 12:28 AM
  #26
EbonyRaptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sceva Sct View Post
Don't imagine we can say anything is set in stone quite yet but it'll probably be close to what we've been using the last couple games:

Whitney - Hanzal - Vrbata
Boedker - Vermette - Doan
Torres - Gordon - Korpikoski
Brule - Langkow - Pyatt
Chipchura, Bissonnette

Ekman-Larsson - Klesla
Yandle - Morris
Rozsival - Aucoin
Stone, Schlemko, Summers

Smith
Labarbera

I'm really not sure how the defense is really going to look, the Yandle-Morris pair is the only one I'm certain we'll see. Stone played the last couple games and so may very well start the series in place of somebody. Schlemko could see time as well but hasn't played much since coming back from injury.
Attention: enemy afoot! Just kiddin - I'm just here on a peaceful fact-finding mission.

I haven't seen the Coyotes play that often this season and the last Hawks-Yotes game was before the TDL (I think). I know the Hawks are playing differently than back then and I suspect your team is too. I know you picked up Vermette at the TDL - did you acquire any other players that are getting meaningful minutes now, either TDL pickups or promoted prospects?

Also I note that the top d-pairing is Ekman-Larsson and Klesla. I alway thought Yandle was your top d-man. Has OEL surpassed Yandle as the top d-man and is Tippett going to play OEL-Klesla against the Hawks top line?

Also#2 - is Torres-Gordon-Korpi the traditional shutdown 3rd line - or will Tippett look to match up one of the other lines on the Hawks top line?

Good health to both teams. Can't wait for Thursday.

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04-10-2012, 12:42 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
Attention: enemy afoot! Just kiddin - I'm just here on a peaceful fact-finding mission.

I haven't seen the Coyotes play that often this season and the last Hawks-Yotes game was before the TDL (I think). I know the Hawks are playing differently than back then and I suspect your team is too. I know you picked up Vermette at the TDL - did you acquire any other players that are getting meaningful minutes now, either TDL pickups or promoted prospects?

Also I note that the top d-pairing is Ekman-Larsson and Klesla. I alway thought Yandle was your top d-man. Has OEL surpassed Yandle as the top d-man and is Tippett going to play OEL-Klesla against the Hawks top line?

Also#2 - is Torres-Gordon-Korpi the traditional shutdown 3rd line - or will Tippett look to match up one of the other lines on the Hawks top line?

Good health to both teams. Can't wait for Thursday.
I imagine you'll see all D pairings against the Hawks top line. I'm confident with any of them. OEL-Klesla is the best defensively though.

I still consider Yandle the #1. OEL is catching up. Considering it was somewhat a down year for Yandle if he bounces back this isn't as much a question.

Brule was a big get in addition to Vermette. Michael Stone could play a role in the series if Aucoin is actually hurt. He played well the last two games for Aucoin and moved himself ahead on the depth chart over Summers in the second half. Not really sure on the Status of Schlemko, but I'm assuming he's not gonna be playing. Hasn't looked the same since injury.

Far as lines, I basically view every line that doesn't have Whitney on it as a 3rd line. Just the way they play. Vrbata Hanzal and Gordon Korpi are the best shutdown forward pairs and much like the D I don't consider one radically better than the other.

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04-10-2012, 12:42 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Polakis View Post
I just looked at our lineup for Game 1 of last year's series. 11 of the skaters are the same. Here are the seven changes in this year's skaters.

2011 ------------- 2012

D Schlemko ------- Ekman-Larsson
D Jovanovski ------ Morris

C Turris ----------- Vermette
C Fiddler ---------- Gordon
C Belanger -------- Langkow

LW Ebbett --------- Brule
RW Stempniak ----- Torres


Frankly, other than the emergence of OEL and Torres's playoff experience, I'm not certain this team is better.
First, you're missing Smith vs Bryz.......that should be a significant upgrade, playoff wise.........we'll find out.

OEL is the team's best defenseman now and an upgrade over any D-man last year especially a young Schlemko.

Jovo was not the same when you he came back......probably a wash with Morris.

Others:

Turris < Vermette - although Turris did play well in the playoffs he's not the 2 way contributor Vermette is.

Fiddler < Gordon - both great faceoff and defensive forwards, but Gordon is better

Belanger = Langkow - but Lankgow is tougher, whines less and a better teammate. Belanger a better skater. Even.

Ebbett < Brule - this was is not close. Brule's record is something 23-7 w/PHX. He's proven to a winner where Ebbett is a career AHLer.

Stempy < Torres - again, not close. Stempy was an inconsistent scorer. Torres is a nasty 2 way play that brings the body as much as anyone and has scored many big goals.

Depth 2011 < 2012

2012 considerable advantage over 2011 IMHO

I


Last edited by AZviaNJ: 04-10-2012 at 12:48 AM.
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04-10-2012, 01:08 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
I imagine you'll see all D pairings against the Hawks top line. I'm confident with any of them. OEL-Klesla is the best defensively though.

I still consider Yandle the #1. OEL is catching up. Considering it was somewhat a down year for Yandle if he bounces back this isn't as much a question.

Brule was a big get in addition to Vermette. Michael Stone could play a role in the series if Aucoin is actually hurt. He played well the last two games for Aucoin and moved himself ahead on the depth chart over Summers in the second half. Not really sure on the Status of Schlemko, but I'm assuming he's not gonna be playing. Hasn't looked the same since injury.

Far as lines, I basically view every line that doesn't have Whitney on it as a 3rd line. Just the way they play. Vrbata Hanzal and Gordon Korpi are the best shutdown forward pairs and much like the D I don't consider one radically better than the other.
Thanks. I appreciate the info.

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04-10-2012, 07:38 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
Also I note that the top d-pairing is Ekman-Larsson and Klesla. I alway thought Yandle was your top d-man. Has OEL surpassed Yandle as the top d-man and is Tippett going to play OEL-Klesla against the Hawks top line?

Also#2 - is Torres-Gordon-Korpi the traditional shutdown 3rd line - or will Tippett look to match up one of the other lines on the Hawks top line?

Good health to both teams. Can't wait for Thursday.
Yandle has had a bit of an up and down season. He's still tremendously important to our team and if he simplifies his game he's as good as any offensive dman in the league. I wouldn't say OEL has surpassed Yandle just yet, but early as next season is very good possibility. Some would even say he's had a better season this year. Klesla and OEL are our rocks on the blue line. They normally don't play together so I doubt you see them both out there at the same time. The Hawks top line will probably see a lot of OEL-Aucoin on defense. Depending on his health of course.

If Tip has his way. Hanzal's line will be out there against your top line every second of the series. The Gordon line is capable of it, but Gordon and Korpi see significant time on special teams so that's where most of their ice time goes. When there isn't a lot of that, we roll 4 lines.

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04-10-2012, 08:06 AM
  #31
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Yandle has had a bit of an up and down season. He's still tremendously important to our team and if he simplifies his game he's as good as any offensive dman in the league. I wouldn't say OEL has surpassed Yandle just yet, but early as next season is very good possibility. Some would even say he's had a better season this year. Klesla and OEL are our rocks on the blue line. They normally don't play together so I doubt you see them both out there at the same time. The Hawks top line will probably see a lot of OEL-Aucoin on defense. Depending on his health of course.

If Tip has his way. Hanzal's line will be out there against your top line every second of the series. The Gordon line is capable of it, but Gordon and Korpi see significant time on special teams so that's where most of their ice time goes. When there isn't a lot of that, we roll 4 lines.
Yandle played only 18 total minutes more than OEL all year. Yandle had 10 more minutes of even strength and about 112 minutes of extra powerplay time, but OEL had 104 extra minutes of shorthanded time.

And that's on the year. OEL has seen increased minutes as the season has wore on. In the last 30 days, OEL has averaged 24:19 to Yandle's 19:52. When you think about how important those games were, it's safe to say OEL is the #1 defenseman on this team at this juncture.

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04-10-2012, 08:09 AM
  #32
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First, I should mention that the dropoff from Vermette to Turris isn't huge if it's there at all. Lest we forget, Turris had a great series last year.
All Turris did that series was score a minute into the series, and then he teased us with a few good shifts that made us optimistic about next season. Now I might be selling Kyle a little short due to my bitterness towards him, but I feel like Antoine is a much better fit for us. Vermette is going to bring so much more to the table. He hits, he wins face offs, there's hustle in his game. The guy has been craving to be in the playoffs to compete at the highest level. All Kyle did was complain about ice time and things not going his way. I would say there's a huge drop off between these two.

From a talent stand point, no we're not better than last year. Although like someone already mentioned I like the way the team is playing better and I have much more confidence in our goaltender. We also added a lot more grit which was our biggest problem last year. I look forward to watching this team compete.

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04-10-2012, 08:14 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Yandle played only 18 total minutes more than OEL all year. Yandle had 10 more minutes of even strength and about 112 minutes of extra powerplay time, but OEL had 104 extra minutes of shorthanded time.

And that's on the year. OEL has seen increased minutes as the season has wore on. In the last 30 days, OEL has averaged 24:19 to Yandle's 19:52. When you think about how important those games were, it's safe to say OEL is the #1 defenseman on this team at this juncture.
Huge fan of both of them. I prefer to think of them as 1a 1b.

No need to tell this fan how good OEL. He's Oliver Ekman-Awesome! Very cool stats thanks for sharing.

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04-10-2012, 08:27 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by PHX FireBirds18 View Post
All Turris did that series was score a minute into the series, and then he teased us with a few good shifts that made us optimistic about next season. Now I might be selling Kyle a little short due to my bitterness towards him, but I feel like Antoine is a much better fit for us. Vermette is going to bring so much more to the table. He hits, he wins face offs, there's hustle in his game. The guy has been craving to be in the playoffs to compete at the highest level. All Kyle did was complain about ice time and things not going his way. I would say there's a huge drop off between these two.

From a talent stand point, no we're not better than last year. Although like someone already mentioned I like the way the team is playing better and I have much more confidence in our goaltender. We also added a lot more grit which was our biggest problem last year. I look forward to watching this team compete.
I think the excitement about Turris last year was definitely colored by hope that he had finally turned the corner, but even in hindsight, it looks like that's actually what happened. He was a very good player last year, for more than just a few shifts.

Vermette on the other hand hasn't seen the playoffs since 2009, he's scoreless in at least his last two series, and he's scored only 8 points in 42 career playoff games (though admittedly most of those games were very early in his career on some offensively deep Ottawa teams).

I'm expecting Vermette to contribute a lot this postseason and I think it's likely that he outperforms the Turris we saw last year, but it's only a given if you cherry pick stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHX FireBirds18 View Post
Huge fan of both of them. I prefer to think of them as 1a 1b.

No need to tell this fan how good OEL. He's Oliver Ekman-Awesome! Very cool stats thanks for sharing.
They're both great defenseman. My only point was that for at least the last month (which was also the most important month of the season), Tippett has relied much more heavily on OEL than he has on Yandle. Given that Yandle has the edge in playoff experience, I'd expect that gulf to shrink a bit going forward, and I'd wager that a big reason for that huge gap so far is to keep Yandle fresh for the playoffs. But inertia is on OEL's side.

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04-10-2012, 10:04 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Yandle played only 18 total minutes more than OEL all year. Yandle had 10 more minutes of even strength and about 112 minutes of extra powerplay time, but OEL had 104 extra minutes of shorthanded time.

And that's on the year. OEL has seen increased minutes as the season has wore on. In the last 30 days, OEL has averaged 24:19 to Yandle's 19:52. When you think about how important those games were, it's safe to say OEL is the #1 defenseman on this team at this juncture.
That stat makes me so happy. 21 years old and he has already shown that not only can he handle big minutes in important games, but he excels in that role. This kid is something special.

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04-10-2012, 10:10 AM
  #36
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This kid is something special.
The best part is that Gormley is considered to be in the same stratosphere, although a different type of player. Murphy looks headed there, if he can keep up his development. Somewhat of a late bloomer. Then you have the fringe guys like Schlemko, Stone and Summer. We're stacked. Goalie is looking the same way, with 3 solid prospects.

Hard to argue that the drafting hasn't been considerably better under Maloney.

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04-10-2012, 10:13 AM
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The best part is that Gormley is considered to be in the same stratosphere, although a different type of player. Murphy looks headed there, if he can keep up his development. Somewhat of a late bloomer. Then you have the fringe guys like Schlemko, Stone and Summer. We're stacked. Goalie is looking the same way, with 3 solid prospects.

Hard to argue that the drafting hasn't been considerably better under Maloney.
I don't want to count our eggs before they've hatched, but it looks like our back-end is going to be insanely good. I'm praying they all work out!

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04-10-2012, 10:14 AM
  #38
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That stat makes me so happy. 21 years old and he has already shown that not only can he handle big minutes in important games, but he excels in that role. This kid is something special.
How happy does it make you that he's not even 21 yet?

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04-10-2012, 10:28 AM
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How happy does it make you that he's not even 21 yet?


That about sums it up.

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04-10-2012, 11:06 AM
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Thanks. I appreciate the info.
Depending on how things are clicking we could see...

Boedker and vermette with doan or korpikoski.

torres and langkow with doan or brule.

Gordon with any combination of korpikoski, pyatt, chipchura, bissonnette with a slim chance of boedker or brule.

Whitney-hanzal-vrbata
boedker-vermette-doan
torres-langkow-brule
pyatt-gordon-korpi

tippett will probably match hanzals line against the blackhawks top line and keep the rest rolling.

defensively

oel plays primarily with aucoin and yandle plays primarily with morris. klesla can play with anyone as needed.

oel-aucoin
yandle-morris
klesla-rozsival

If anyone on the right side gets injured kesla would probably move over to replace them and schlemko would dress. Id say oel and aucoin are our top pair with oel really getting a lot of minutes over the last month or so.

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04-10-2012, 01:16 PM
  #41
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In bold below. This year's team, at least on paper, looks more battle tested and better prepared for playoff hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Polakis View Post
I have watched almost all of this season's games, as I have since 1996, and I'll stick with my weak assertion that, "I'm not certain this team is better." You can't cherry pick weak playoff performances from last season when we don't yet know how players such as Brule, Gordon, and Vermette will perform for the team during the 2012 playoffs.

So here's my assessment, for what it's worth. I will limit the number of greater than symbols to a maximum of two.

OEL > Schlemko -- no disagreement that OEL is better, although Schlemko was playing great this season before the injury.
Schlemko was actually our best defenseman in that four game sweep, so the difference will be negligible

DeMo < Jovo -- I'm not a Jovocough fan, but he did know how to play the point on the PP, and we're going to need something better than 29th best in the league to win playoff games.
Jovo hasn't been a special teams stalwart in his later years. PP contributions were minimal at best, and he had 1 assist in last season's series. I think Morris is steadier than Jovo, so I'd argue you on this assessment.

Vermette < Turris -- I hate Turris with every fiber of my being, but the Turris of the 2011 playoffs is a proven commodity. Vermette's two-way game is fine, but I sure hope he pitches in with some points.
We have more cohesive three men units with Vermette. We were more of a three line team last season. I think Vermette fits this team much better than Turris did/does.

Gordon > Fiddler -- Fiddler's disappearing act in the 2011 playoffs remains a mystery to me, so I'll give the nod to Gordon. If it came down to the last two regular seasons, I think the two players are nearly interchangeable.

Langkow = Belanger -- My favorite line in Coyotes history was Nagy-Langkow-Johnson. I was a big fan, but there are a couple hundred other guys who can do what Langkow did this season.
I expect Langkow to have an impact. He brings a physical, leadership edge Belanger simply doesn't. I've liked his game in recent weeks.

Brule > Ebbett -- Ebbett was in over his head during the playoffs.

Torres >> Stempniak -- Agreed. Torres has a lot of playoff experience.
Agreed on these last two.

OK, now that I wrote all that, I suppose this year's changes are a net upgrade. But as PhoPhan pointed out later in this thread, the 11 returning players don't necessarily represent an improvement, particularly with aging D-men.


Finally, I know it's sacrilege to say this, but we also don't yet know how Smith will perform under the spotlight. Many of us were pretty sold on Bryz at the end of last season until his string of soul-crushing softies in each playoff game.

I will be the happiest person on this list if we learn in a couple weeks that my assessment is dead wrong.

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04-10-2012, 05:30 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Redcoyote View Post
Depending on how things are clicking we could see...

oel plays primarily with aucoin and yandle plays primarily with morris. klesla can play with anyone as needed.

oel-aucoin
yandle-morris
klesla-rozsival

If anyone on the right side gets injured kesla would probably move over to replace them and schlemko would dress. Id say oel and aucoin are our top pair with oel really getting a lot of minutes over the last month or so.
So - if Aucoin can go, he would be paired with OEL and Klesla would move to the 3rd pairing.

Thanks again guys for the good info. Is it Thursday yet?

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04-10-2012, 06:07 PM
  #43
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The pairings and order for Coyotes defensemen depends heavily on how the game is called. If they have a lot of powerplays, Yandle's ice time will increase. If they have to kill a lot of penalties, you'll see a lot of Klesla.

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04-10-2012, 06:55 PM
  #44
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The mere fact that we're debating OEL vs Yandle is surreal, not because it's an unreasonable debate but because Yandle is one of the best Dmen we've seen in a Yotes uniform in a loooong time and to think this young kid OEL is in the same discussion is just all kinds of awesome.

In short, I don't care who is technically better, they are both ridiculously talented and they are both Coyotes!!!!

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