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04-10-2012, 07:11 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't think Booker would be outright lying about them. That would be more disastrous than a simple outburst.
Nobody is saying Booker is lying about anything, but if nobody knows anything about the history of Booker/JVBs conversations/interactions, there is no line in the sand to draw of how much is true and how much is exaggeration

Let's not make it seem as if Booker is this world renowned guy either that everything he says is right because you want it to be, the guy is a politician

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04-10-2012, 07:11 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by devilsblood View Post
The name calling in general was ridiculous. Way over the top on that initial fooray.
I wish that Booker had voiced his anger the way he did this op ed piece. Would've been, by far, the best way he could've done it. It's clear he is beyond fed up dealing with VBK and that there is real near-hate that exists right now between the two.

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04-10-2012, 07:13 PM
  #103
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I'm not worried, but wow Booker looks like a child now.

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04-10-2012, 07:13 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
Nobody is saying Booker is lying about anything, but if nobody knows anything about the history of Booker/JVBs conversations/interactions, there is no line in the sand to draw of how much is true and how much is exaggeration

Let's not make it seem as if Booker is this world renowned guy either that everything he says is right because you want it to be, the guy is a politician
I think Booker appears to be a bit more trustworthy than the average politician, but I don't take everything he says right to heart at all. I never said that everything he said is right, so don't put those words in my mouth.

However, generally when people get legitimately pissed off like this they are either completely lying (and just mad they didn't get their way) or rightfully pissed off. I have to give Booker a bit of the benefit of the doubt here and slot him in the latter category. Perhaps he is a lying, horrible scummy mayor. I haven't really seen much of that element yet from him, though.

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04-10-2012, 07:18 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I think Booker appears to be a bit more trustworthy than the average politician, but I don't take everything he says right to heart at all. I never said that everything he said is right, so don't put those words in my mouth.

However, generally when people get legitimately pissed off like this they are either completely lying (and just mad they didn't get their way) or rightfully pissed off. I have to give Booker a bit of the benefit of the doubt here and slot him in the latter category. Perhaps he is a lying, horrible scummy mayor. I haven't really seen much of that element yet from him, though.
Then don't make Booker out to be a saint in comparison to JVB because again, there is no evidence either way of which guy is leaning towards the truth or which guy is leaning towards embellishment, it is all speculation because we don't know anything!

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04-10-2012, 07:23 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He was in charge of their global strategy, IIRC, and a risk manager. There is no way that he did not know what was going on inside that firm at the time he was there.
No, you dont recall correctly.

Vanderbeek was primarily the head of Fixed Income, but nevertheless he was long gone from LEH by the time it imploded, and had nothing to do with it at the time of the collapse as you suggested.

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04-10-2012, 07:25 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
Then don't make Booker out to be a saint in comparison to JVB because again, there is no evidence either way of which guy is leaning towards the truth or which guy is leaning towards embellishment, it is all speculation because we don't know anything!
Where did I make him out to be a saint? I said that I think he's, so far, a bit more trustworthy than your average politician and gave him the benefit of the doubt. How am I making him out to be a saint?Every arena deal in the world comes with a **** ton of stipulations about helping the surrounding area, etc.

I think that it's very likely that VBK pandered to Booker and promised the world to him. That always happens. Maybe Booker was a bit of a fool for believing the guy, but I don't think that that makes him any less deserving of being angry. ****, at least the guy seems to give a **** about Newark and wants to help it. That really can't be said of most people.

My view is simply that I think that all of the Booker bashing here is essentially de facto support for VBK in this, and that is what surprised me. I saw two posters really give Booker any benefit of the doubt where most just lashed out at him.

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04-10-2012, 07:29 PM
  #108
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Oh look here comes Johnathan doing whatever he can to bash anything Devils.

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04-10-2012, 07:30 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
the guy seems to give a **** about Newark and wants to help it.
Seems is the operative word here. He's convinced you (and many others) that he cares about Newark so I guess he's a good politician. IMO it would be foolish to think that this is just out of genuine care for Newark. Booker is a young politician with a career to look out for. That's what this is.

I'm not saying the guy doesn't care about Newark, but let's get real.

And just for the record I am not a big JVB fan.

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04-10-2012, 07:32 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
Oh look here comes Johnathan doing whatever he can to bash anything Devils.
Oh, give me a break. Where did I bash the Devils? I think the owner comes off as scummy. I think the Rangers owner comes off as scummy. I think the Mets owner(s) comes off as scummy. What, am I bashing my own teams when I somehow bash the owner? Did you even read what I wrote?

****, I love having the Rock be in Newark and I love the arena. I hope the Devils stay there forever. I think I've espoused my love for the arena and location more than enough.

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04-10-2012, 07:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
Seems is the operative word here. He's convinced you that he cares about Newark so I guess he's a good politician. IMO it would be foolish to think that this is just out of genuine care for Newark. Booker is a young politician with a career to look out for. That's what this is.
I think that he's genuinely been working to improve Newark. I find it really hard to fault him for trying to do a lot with so little. It's not as if this is the mayor of Saddle River trying to do something.

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04-10-2012, 07:34 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Where did I make him out to be a saint? I said that I think he's, so far, a bit more trustworthy than your average politician and gave him the benefit of the doubt. How am I making him out to be a saint?Every arena deal in the world comes with a **** ton of stipulations about helping the surrounding area, etc.

I think that it's very likely that VBK pandered to Booker and promised the world to him. That always happens. Maybe Booker was a bit of a fool for believing the guy, but I don't think that that makes him any less deserving of being angry. ****, at least the guy seems to give a **** about Newark and wants to help it. That really can't be said of most people.

My view is simply that I think that all of the Booker bashing here is essentially de facto support for VBK in this, and that is what surprised me. I saw two posters really give Booker any benefit of the doubt where most just lashed out at him.
Did you forget mentioning that JVB was a shark just because he worked for LEH and that he must have been a ******* if Booker is coming out and saying all this when we don't even know how much truth there is on either side or how shady the things he has done are "shady"? How about saying that despite being a politician, Booker is still somewhat trustworthy and that he is a guy with state and national dreams

As I mentioned before, JVB is a good guy and fan, but he isn't on the top of any Devils fans owners list - do you seriously believe that what Booker did was just fine? Regardless of how bad things were between each person (which we don't even know), where are Booker's balls? If you have a problem with somebody you go take care of it face to face with them, don't hide behind something or somebody and point fingers - this isn't daycare, we're talking about a friggen grown man, a mayor of the largest city in the state no less

There are two sides to this story and then there is the truth as somebody mentioned earlier, we'll never get the truth

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04-10-2012, 07:36 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I think that he's genuinely been working to improve Newark. I find it really hard to fault him for trying to do a lot with so little. It's not as if this is the mayor of Saddle River trying to do something.
Be that as it may, I don't think compassion for Newark is what drives him. He is what, 42 years old? He is still building his resume.

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04-10-2012, 07:39 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
Did you forget mentioning that JVB was a shark just because he worked for LEH and that he must have been a ******* if Booker is coming out and saying all this when we don't even know how much truth there is on either side or how shady the things he has done are "shady"? How about saying that despite being a politician, Booker is still somewhat trustworthy and that he is a guy with state and national dreams

As I mentioned before, JVB is a good guy and fan, but he isn't on the top of any Devils fans owners list - do you seriously believe that what Booker did was just fine? Regardless of how bad things were between each person (which we don't even know), where are Booker's balls? If you had a problem with somebody you go take care of it face to face with them, don't hide behind something or somebody and point fingers

There are two sides to this story and then there is the truth as somebody mentioned earlier, we'll never get the truth
Oh, because I called JVB (I always thought it was VBK) a shark I suddenly have said Booker is a golden god? I don't know much about Booker's behind the scenes dealings. I already said that perhaps he is scummy and we all just don't know it yet. I merely said I think he's a bit more trustworthy than the average politician.

Are we really at this point on society where calling someone perhaps a bit more honest/trustworthy is making them out to be a saint? Really? Is society that bad?

And I'm sure that Booker has voiced these things to JVB either in person or via phone, email, mediator, etc. Why do you think he's only throwing it all out now? It's clearly out of frustration.

I also never said that there wasn't two sides. I said that I doubt Booker is outright lying about anything he's said because that would really be a killer to any future outside-of-Newark elections. I would be pretty shocked if he was that scummy to go and outright lie about things JVB did/said. Talk about blowing any future capital you had. That would have been the single dumbest thing he could have done.

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04-10-2012, 07:43 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
Be that as it may, I don't think compassion for Newark is what drives him. He is what, 42 years old? He is still building his resume.
Eh, all of Booker's legal learings at Yale were centered around public interest. I think he's shown enough that he's not merely doing what he does for political capital. He has to do SOME things to build it up, but I don't question his sincerity to helping Newark. I would say that that is one of his most genuine qualities. I think the man truly does want to give back, and he's shown it all the way back from when he was in law school.

With that said, everyone can be purchased, so perhaps he won't always be the same person. And I'm sure he does some shady things politically behind closed doors. Politics is cutthroat, and I'm sure he can't get by completely by giving out kevlar scarves to everyone.

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04-10-2012, 07:46 PM
  #116
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Oh, because I called JVB (I always thought it was VBK) a shark I suddenly have said Booker is a golden god? I don't know much about Booker's behind the scenes dealings. I already said that perhaps he is scummy and we all just don't know it yet. I merely said I think he's a bit more trustworthy than the average politician.

Are we really at this point on society where calling someone perhaps a bit more honest/trustworthy is making them out to be a saint? Really? Is society that bad?

And I'm sure that Booker has voiced these things to JVB either in person or via phone, email, mediator, etc. Why do you think he's only throwing it all out now? It's clearly out of frustration.

I also never said that there wasn't two sides. I said that I doubt Booker is outright lying about anything he's said because that would really be a killer to any future outside-of-Newark elections. I would be pretty shocked if he was that scummy to go and outright lie about things JVB did/said. Talk about blowing any future capital you had. That would have been the single dumbest thing he could have done.
Based on what you said about JVB and Booker, you put Booker is looked in a much more positive light, don't play dumb now

What you are saying is nothing more than speculation because for the 10th time, nobody is aware of what is truth and what is not

We're not getting anywhere with this

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04-10-2012, 07:50 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
Based on what you said about JVB and Booker, you put Booker is looked in a much more positive light, don't play dumb now

What you are saying is nothing more than speculation because for the 10th time, nobody is aware of what is truth and what is not

We're not getting anywhere with this
I never said I didn't put Booker in a more positive light. I VIEW him in a more positive light. I never admitted that I did not. I disagree with your ridiculous assumption that I painted him as a saint when I clearly never went that far.

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04-10-2012, 07:51 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
He's played quite fast and loose with contract law, first off. I think he's been awfully shady when it comes to fulfilling promises on his end.

Second off, I automatically distrust him (rightly or wrongly) just because of his relation to Lehman at the time of its collapse.


VBK is a shark. You don't get to those heights on Wall Street without being one.

I'm actually surprised you guys defend VBK so much. Rangers fans hate Dolan -- even if he is a pretty damn good owner. There are few genuinely good guys who are at the top of the world like sports owners are. Much more common are the absolutely bloodthirsty sharks like Dolan and VBK. Guys who would willingly cut your throat to get ahead a bit. I have a bit of respect for that (especially because I'll be clerking at a branch of a relatively big, cutthroat law firm this summer), but I would have a hard time really defending them on an emotional level.

You'd be wrongly distrusting there big guy.

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What exactly was his "relation to LEH at the time of its' collapse"?
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He was in charge of their global strategy, IIRC, and a risk manager. There is no way that he did not know what was going on inside that firm at the time he was there.
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
No, you dont recall correctly.

Vanderbeek was primarily the head of Fixed Income, but nevertheless he was long gone from LEH by the time it imploded, and had nothing to do with it at the time of the collapse as you suggested.
BG is correct, JVB left Lehman in 2004, we went bankrupt September 15, 2008.

We went bankrupt because our CEO was a conceited, arrogant, *****, who pissed off every single person at the Fed and on the Street to the point where he was begging to be made an example of. Which is precisely what happened after he continued to press his luck on that mortgage ********

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04-10-2012, 07:53 PM
  #119
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Eh, all of Booker's legal learings at Yale were centered around public interest. I think he's shown enough that he's not merely doing what he does for political capital. He has to do SOME things to build it up, but I don't question his sincerity to helping Newark. I would say that that is one of his most genuine qualities. I think the man truly does want to give back, and he's shown it all the way back from when he was in law school.

With that said, everyone can be purchased, so perhaps he won't always be the same person. And I'm sure he does some shady things politically behind closed doors. Politics is cutthroat, and I'm sure he can't get by completely by giving out kevlar scarves to everyone.
I can definitely understand your thinking, but I respectfully disagree.

My thinking is that by doing this, he appears (and probably is) willing to take the rich man to task. And that seems to be what a lot of people want right now. For a young politician, that seems like a solid approach.

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04-10-2012, 07:53 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Mr.Krinkle View Post
You'd be wrongly distrusting there big guy.







BG is correct, JVB left Lehman in 2004, we went bankrupt September 15, 2008.

We went bankrupt because our CEO was a conceited, arrogant, *****, who pissed off every single person at the Fed and on the Street to the point where he was begging to be made an example of. Which is precisely what happened after he continued to press his luck on that mortgage ********
Uh, you don't think that Lehman was practicing scummy things prior to the day it went bankrupt? If that's your belief, I have some volcano insurance to sell you. Lehman went bankrupt because they went full retard due to a lot of the deregulation by Clinton. And because the CEO was a moron.

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04-10-2012, 07:55 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
I can definitely understand your thinking, but I respectfully disagree.

My thinking is that by doing this, he appears (and probably is) willing to take the rich man to task. And that seems to be what a lot of people want right now. For a young politician, that seems like a solid approach.
Disagree how? One of my current teachers was a classmate and friend of Booker and has said as such when I had a conversation with her. Booker was about as big into public interest and helping poor/disenfranchised people as could possibly be. I believe that is pretty well known, too.

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04-10-2012, 07:56 PM
  #122
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Disagree how? One of my current teachers is a classmate and friend of Booker and has said as such when I had a conversation with her. Booker was about as big into public interest and helping poor/disenfranchised people as could possibly be.
I disagree with sincerity being what drives Booker in this situation. He may be a jovial guy, but he has a career to look out for. There has to be a line.

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04-10-2012, 07:56 PM
  #123
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04-10-2012, 07:57 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
I disagree with sincerity being what drives Booker in this situation.
I think his reaction shows how sincere he was. Why else would he be so pissed off? Unless he is outright lying, really. Whatever is left of negotiations is likely so contentious that JVB did something to set him over the edge. I don't see any other reason for someone acting as Booker did in his position otherwise (unless they are simply lying as I alluded to).

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04-10-2012, 08:00 PM
  #125
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I think his reaction shows how sincere he was. Why else would he be so pissed off? Unless he is outright lying, really. Whatever is left of negotiations is likely so contentious that JVB did something to set him over the edge. I don't see any other reason for someone acting as Booker did in his position otherwise (unless they are simply lying as I alluded to).
Possibly because he is more concerned with himself being made a fool of rather than the people of Newark. He doesn't want to look like a pushover.

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