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Would you be upset if the new GM did a rebuild?

View Poll Results: Would you be upset?
Yes, I want to win now and feel this core is a contender 57 34.55%
No, I am not opposed to a philosophy change. 108 65.45%
Voters: 165. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-10-2012, 11:39 PM
  #1
LyricalLyricist
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Would you be upset if the new GM did a rebuild?

As the title says, if the new GM came here and sold all the vets, stocked up on picks will keeping the young players in Price, Subban, Pacioretty and likely others in Eller, Emelin, White, etc... would you be upset if it required an extra year or two of building?

Basically:

Markov
Bourque
Gionta
Gomez
Kaberle
Cole
Plekanec
etc...

Can be traded for younger pieces/picks and the GM may go for a new philosophy.

In what situation would a GM move many vets? Think of a GM coming in who prefers a bigger, stronger physical team and doesn't see gionta, kaberle, etc.. as solutions and decides to revamp the roster and acquire new players to fit his mold.

Would you be against it? Assuming he was a shrewd negotiator and got the most out of the assets?

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Old
04-10-2012, 11:41 PM
  #2
Sandvich
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I want an all black team.

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Old
04-10-2012, 11:42 PM
  #3
Hawkguy
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I'd like to see what the team can do next year under new management. If that fails, I'd be okay with rebuilding.

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04-10-2012, 11:42 PM
  #4
hockeyfan2k11
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I'd love that.

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Old
04-10-2012, 11:47 PM
  #5
ChoseLa
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Make offers to Parise and Suter, if they refuse tank.

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04-10-2012, 11:52 PM
  #6
the
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I wish every single day that they would do a full rebuild...I hate this team! I was never a huge fan of the major shakeup in the summer 09 and the Halak trade just sealed the deal for me.I wish I could still cheer for this team but there's nothing to cheer about watching these bunch of overrated cowards.

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Old
04-11-2012, 12:08 AM
  #7
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Make offers to Parise and Suter, if they refuse tank.
I kinda feel same way. Unless you can get legit pieces to put us over the top I don't see this core as good enough and would rather build onto the young core than wait until they're old and done.

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Old
04-11-2012, 12:45 AM
  #8
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
As the title says, if the new GM came here and sold all the vets, stocked up on picks will keeping the young players in Price, Subban, Pacioretty and likely others in Eller, Emelin, White, etc... would you be upset if it required an extra year or two of building?

Basically:

Markov
Bourque
Gionta
Gomez
Kaberle
Cole
Plekanec
etc...

Can be traded for younger pieces/picks and the GM may go for a new philosophy.

In what situation would a GM move many vets? Think of a GM coming in who prefers a bigger, stronger physical team and doesn't see gionta, kaberle, etc.. as solutions and decides to revamp the roster and acquire new players to fit his mold.

Would you be against it? Assuming he was a shrewd negotiator and got the most out of the assets?
I wouldn't be opposed to a tank, but I wouldn't say we need to move all our vets. As tempting as it may be to move the better ones, as they would obviously bring the better returns, we'd still need to surround the young prospects with good veteran presence.
Look at how Cole rubbed off on MaxPac. The kid has been learning and trying to play like him all year.
It's too bad Markov was injured all this time. Having him here to mentor PK's offensive game would have been ideal. Hopefully he stays healthy and PK can pick up some things.
Eller can learn quite a bit from Plekanec. He already has imo. His two way game has improved quite a lot since he first joined. Watching a guy like Plek be so efficient at it must help.

So, not sure who we'd move or not, or maybe make other signings, not sure. At the end of the day though, you need good veterans for the kids.

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Old
04-11-2012, 12:51 AM
  #9
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I wouldn't be opposed to a tank, but I wouldn't say we need to move all our vets. As tempting as it may be to move the better ones, as they would obviously bring the better returns, we'd still need to surround the young prospects with good veteran presence.
Look at how Cole rubbed off on MaxPac. The kid has been learning and trying to play like him all year.
It's too bad Markov was injured all this time. Having him here to mentor PK's offensive game would have been ideal. Hopefully he stays healthy and PK can pick up some things.
Eller can learn quite a bit from Plekanec. He already has imo. His two way game has improved quite a lot since he first joined. Watching a guy like Plek be so efficient at it must help.

So, not sure who we'd move or not, or maybe make other signings, not sure. At the end of the day though, you need good veterans for the kids.
I've noticed Plekanec talking to Eller a lot this year, especially after Eller's defensive mistakes.

Anyway selling off all your veterans at once is a great way to cause more damage. I really don't know how anyone could look at a team like Edmonton or the Islanders and be envious.

This all or nothing mindset makes no sense to me in a sport where teams are so close in quality. The Rangers went from worse than us to 1st in the East in one offseason, and while I think they had some luck this year, I think it's telling that the only favourite right now got to where they are through years of tanking was Pittsburgh.

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Old
04-11-2012, 01:03 AM
  #10
Alexdaman
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If our draft is successful we won't need to lure new prospects. The team is rather young and our overall age dropped a lot with the departure of guys like Gill, Hamrlik, Spacek and the probably even more with having Gomez, Campoli and Kaberle and maybe Bourque sent away so the team might even be younger next year. We will need a few veterans that can come in and bring a new work ethic and change the current philosophy. I think that with Cammelerri and Kostityn out the team will be easier to manage next year we cannot keep Bourque as a distraction but we can hardly trade him for something of value I'm not sure that sending Kaberle would be a good move either. The core of young players: Desharnais, White, Pacioretty, Eller, Diaz, Subban, Emelin will have to carry the team next year and they've had enough preparation to do so but only if we keep elements like Markov, Gorges, Cole, Plekanec, Darche and Gionta we'll need to jungle with the rest and bring at least two other good forwards and one defencemen.

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04-11-2012, 01:04 AM
  #11
68
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Yes to a full rebuild. It would suck losing a guy like Cole but it's for the best.

How do we trade them though when most of them have NTCs or are just unwanted?

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04-11-2012, 01:08 AM
  #12
Alexdaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 View Post
Yes to a full rebuild. It would suck losing a guy like Cole but it's for the best.

How do we trade them though when most of them have NTCs or are just unwanted?
We'll need to be active on the UFA market and be ready to receive less than what we give in order to make room on the salary mass.

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Old
04-11-2012, 01:10 AM
  #13
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I wouldn't be opposed to a tank, but I wouldn't say we need to move all our vets. As tempting as it may be to move the better ones, as they would obviously bring the better returns, we'd still need to surround the young prospects with good veteran presence.
Look at how Cole rubbed off on MaxPac. The kid has been learning and trying to play like him all year.
It's too bad Markov was injured all this time. Having him here to mentor PK's offensive game would have been ideal. Hopefully he stays healthy and PK can pick up some things.
Eller can learn quite a bit from Plekanec. He already has imo. His two way game has improved quite a lot since he first joined. Watching a guy like Plek be so efficient at it must help.

So, not sure who we'd move or not, or maybe make other signings, not sure. At the end of the day though, you need good veterans for the kids.
I wasn't clear, my bad. I said they 'can' be moved, but it would insane to shred the team completely. Guys like Gorges, Cole, Gionta, Plekanec,etc...can still have a purpose and trading them depends on your philosophy and if someone is there to replace them or not.

I can't imagine the habs tearing down the team asap, even in my wildest dreams, but i'd imagine over the duration of the veteran core's remaining contract is a possibility. For instance, gionta, kaberle, markov, gomez all have 2 years left on their deals. They might be prone to movement within that span. Guys like Cole have 3 years left and will likely still provide a role.

The thing is, even if we remove ALL the vets within 2 years, we're left with(assuming we get grigorenko)

Pacioretty-Desharnais-X
X-Grigorenko-X
Leblanc-Eller-X
White-X-X

Subban-X
Diaz-Emelin
Weber-X

Price
X

X=Empty spot.

While I don't envision this, it is a worst case scenario. In an ideal world, guys like Gorges and Moen are 100% keepers. Guys like Plekanec may be slotted at center until grigorenko is ready.

Also, the returns we'd get off trades and prospects moving up in tinordi, beaulieu, gallagher, kristo, engqvist, dumont, etc...

Who will compete for spots.

I don't expect a gutting of the team, but I would mean a transition process with a certain direction.

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Old
04-11-2012, 01:27 AM
  #14
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I voted yes, but I'm kinda torn. It would have to be a great return if we get rid of Cole or Markov. The talent is here to make the playoffs, just not sure if the motivation was. So many shoot losses, 3rd period collapses. We could pull an Ottawa next season or even better, but if we continue our free fall, next year at trade deadline would be a good time to unload some vets.

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04-11-2012, 01:33 AM
  #15
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Yes, so we can lose Price for nothing to another team in a few years when he's set to be UFA... and Pacc / Subban afterwards...


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04-11-2012, 02:31 AM
  #16
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Ofcourse we need a full rebuild because if you are over 25 years old you obviously have one foot in the grave and need to be traded for picks asap.

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04-11-2012, 04:41 AM
  #17
ReVeuF
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In your list I'll just keep Cole

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04-11-2012, 05:29 AM
  #18
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I would start off with trying to sign Parise and/or Suter. Whether or not any of them would sign, I would still start the season with the mind on winning. However, I would of course off-load Gomez and/or Kaberle if possible, but that's not "tanking" for me, that's just common sense.

I would keep all the other players in the lineup trying to reach the playoffs, but if we reach the deadline without any realistic chance of the playoffs, I would start to listen to offers on Gionta, Bourque and possibly Markov (if we get great value).

I think Cole and Plekanec should be part of our plans for the next 3-4 years unless we get tremendous offers (or Grigorenko/Galchenyuk makes Plekanec expendable at the deadline).

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04-11-2012, 06:46 AM
  #19
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If the new (and hopefully competent) GM that comes in thinks that the team absolutely needs to be rebuilt from scratch in order to win a Stanley Cup, then I could definitely live with a few seasons of the team playing bad hockey.
I do not believe this team actually needs to do something as drastic as that though.

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04-11-2012, 06:54 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franck View Post
If the new (and hopefully competent) GM that comes in thinks that the team absolutely needs to be rebuilt from scratch in order to win a Stanley Cup, then I could definitely live with a few seasons of the team playing bad hockey.
I do not believe this team actually needs to do something as drastic as that though.
Despite how hard it seems like I've been lobbying for Parise, or rather any player of similar calibre, I'm with you - especially the bold. I don't think the forward group compliments the defense group (and vice versa, obviously), but both have their own merits/strengths. Just a couple of serious tweaks to one or the other could be enough to make us a difficult team for anyone to beat. No need to seriously overhaul both, imo, although I'd love to see a GM in Montreal successfully pull it off.

From the OP's list, only Plekanec and Cole are keepers to me.


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 04-11-2012 at 07:01 AM.
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04-11-2012, 07:12 AM
  #21
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Keep Cole,Plekanec,Gorges,and Markov. Not a total rebuild but just identifying
which veterans to add to the core of youth Price,Subban,Emelin,Pacciorety,Eller.
No more veteran retreads. Rather than a hope and a prayer the organization needs to establish a philosopy and a vision and STICK TO IT.

ps; yes I do realize Cole is considered a retread,we lucked out IMO


Last edited by baldrick: 04-11-2012 at 07:36 AM.
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04-11-2012, 07:13 AM
  #22
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Contrarily to the Oilers two yeras ago when they selected Hall first overall, the Canadiens have actually some good core pieces in Price, Subban (if the organisation manage to fix the problem in the locker room; I DO believe there's something wrong in the locker room around PK and the vets contrarily to most of the people here) and maybe Pacioretty.

But besides that, the core is just not good enough as of now to allow the Canadiens to legitimately compete for the cup for many years. So,*I definitely think that the new management team should bring a plan where they put the emphasis on draft and development players and stay away from the big UFA signings at least for next year. This would be what i'd like to see from the team next year and if the team sucks next years, so be it, and you start seeing during the season what you can get from some vets of the team that you think won't be part of the success of the team long term.

No more quick fixes and no more patching pls. I definitely don't want to see the new management team go the UFA craze route they went in the '09 summer. I want an effective and long term plan like Chicago did after they drafted Toews back in '06.

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04-11-2012, 07:36 AM
  #23
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We need one more year of pain IMO.

The new GM should be keeping:
-All first round picks and second round picks.
-Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Eller, Cole, Desharnais, Leblanc, White, Emelin, Gorges, Gallagher, Beaulieu, Tinordi.

Anyone else should be made available to all teams, listen to offers and try to land a young standout forward prospect (Saad, Huberdeau, Coyle). Also try to accumulate as many first and second round picks in 2013 and 2014 as possible.

Guys like Plekanec and Markov will have great value and Gionta will still have decent value to contending teams looking for depth. Players like Weber, Diaz, Kristo, Palushaj, Bournival, etc can be nice pieces to add in order to push a deal over the top if the other team is hesitant.

Another Top 10 pick in 2013 and additional picks to move up into the top 5 will go a long way to solidifying the long term success of this team.

Obviously some veterans need to be kept in order to groom young players. I am not saying to trade everyone, just saying that anyone you don't see as the core of the team in three years should be put out there.
Deal 2 or 3 of them.

Hopefully Molson is willing to sacrifice one more season for long term gain.

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04-11-2012, 07:55 AM
  #24
swimmer77
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I would not rebuild at all. I'd look at what made the team successful against Boston last year even though they lost. They were missing Markov and Pacioretty and Gorges. With a few more tweaks it is still a good roster. But the defence needs a backup plan if it's all going to be about Markov.

I didn't like the Cammalleri trade either. I'd be in favor of unloading Kaberle to get a legitimate, two way, top 4 d-man if possible. A cheap PP specialist like MAB. Trade Bourque back to Calgary for Cammalleri + something else. LOL

I just don't think the basic roster is THAT bad. A rebuild guarantees nothing. Didn't we just learn that?

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04-11-2012, 08:04 AM
  #25
Blind Gardien
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I'd be totally upset by a "rebuild". I would question the competency of any GM in the modern age who went that route with a team like ours. Habs are well placed to BUILD. Just keep adding to what we have.

I don't think that means the current core is a "contender" either... but some of the components are there. A "rebuild" is not a good way to add what's missing.

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