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Old
04-09-2012, 06:12 AM
  #51
HolyShot*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
FORWARDS:

Kopitar: A
Brown: B
Williams: B
Richards: C-
Carter: B
King: B
Lewis: B-
Penner: D
Stoll: C
Fraser: B
Nolan: B-
Clifford: C

DEFENSE:

Doughty: C
Mitchell: A+
Voynov: B+
Scuderi: C
Martinez: B
Greene: B-

GOALIES:

Quick: A
Bernier: B

- Richards has not been the 2nd line center we were hoping for. Whether it's due to injury or adjusting to a new team, if LA has any hopes of competing for a Stanley Cup, he simply needs to be better.

- Scuderi. I'll get flamed for this, but I know I'm not the only one who feels that Scuderi is not worth his contract or the praise he gets around here. Sure he makes a few good defensive plays from time to time, but so does Drewiske. I think we could find a cheaper defenseman to just blindly whip pucks around in the d-zone.
Yes u will get flamed. Scuds is the only reason las in the pos. Dude is solid shutdown.

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Old
04-09-2012, 11:25 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman47 View Post
Yes u will get flamed. Scuds is the only reason las in the pos. Dude is solid shutdown.
glad someone sees scuds the same way as me.

Scuds does not deserve to be below a B+

If people are rating him below a B+ you are obviously not paying attention to his defensive plays. (just imo)

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Old
04-09-2012, 12:48 PM
  #53
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Kopitar: A
Brown: B
Williams: B
Richards: B
Carter: B
King: C
Lewis: C
Penner: D
Stoll: D
Fraser: C
Nolan: C
Clifford: C

DEFENSE:

Doughty: B
Mitchell: A
Voynov: B
Scuderi: C
Martinez: B
Greene: B

GOALIES:

Quick: A
Bernier: B

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Old
04-09-2012, 01:34 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman47 View Post
Yes u will get flamed. Scuds is the only reason las in the pos. Dude is solid shutdown.
thanks

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Old
04-09-2012, 02:04 PM
  #55
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I think its fair to say the team didn't live up to expectations in the regular season.

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04-09-2012, 02:09 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaAnimal View Post
glad someone sees scuds the same way as me.

Scuds does not deserve to be below a B+

If people are rating him below a B+ you are obviously not paying attention to his defensive plays. (just imo)
According to Sam's post, you are in the minority.

Sure he makes a few nice defensive plays here and there, but at 3.4mil, he better be doing that plus more. As I said in my first post, if you stick Drewiske in there, I'm sure he'd make a few good plays every now and then as well.

He's second on the team in blocked shots; Good. What else does he do in addition that warrants his contract? He's a -7... worst on the team with the exception of Carter who shouldn't really count.

He struggles to move the puck out of the zone which in many instances negates a potential offensive rush, rather opting to play hot potato with Doughty or just flinging pucks blindly around the defensive zone.

In the offensive zone, the guy is completely clueless. And while I know he isn't paid to put up points... at least be able to get a shot on net every once in a while. Even Matt Greene can do that....

No physical game whatsoever. Lowest hit per game ratio of all the defenseman and ranked near the bottom on the entire team... I mean he's pretty close to Jeff Carter territory in this respect.


So, I'd like to hear your reasons as to why he deserves that B+ (or higher).... other than he makes underrated defensive plays that people dont notice.

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Old
04-09-2012, 02:29 PM
  #57
KINGS17
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I really don't see how any of the forwards have earned an "A". The majority of them floated on the perimeter for 25-30 games this season.

To me Williams at least put in the effort game in and game out, and that's why I give him an "A-". He had a stretch there where he was snake bit or he would have had 27-30 goals this season. He is the only forward that Sutter uses to get other guys going.

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Old
04-09-2012, 02:37 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I really don't see how any of the forwards have earned an "A". The majority of them floated on the perimeter for 25-30 games this season.

To me Williams at least put in the effort game in and game out, and that's why I give him an "A-". He had a stretch there where he was snake bit or he would have had 27-30 goals this season. He is the only forward that Sutter uses to get other guys going.
Williams is a nice supporting player but he also had his cold streaks. One think that sticks in a negative way when we talk about Williams is that he makes just too many brutal turnovers in transition and he has stretches of games where his passing is atrocious.
He should be getting more PP time tho.

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Old
04-09-2012, 03:47 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I really don't see how any of the forwards have earned an "A". The majority of them floated on the perimeter for 25-30 games this season.

To me Williams at least put in the effort game in and game out, and that's why I give him an "A-". He had a stretch there where he was snake bit or he would have had 27-30 goals this season. He is the only forward that Sutter uses to get other guys going.
This is spot on. There isn't a single forward on the roster (Dwight King being maybe the one exception) that deserves an "A" grade. To me an "A" grade should be reserved for players that exceeded pre-season expectations or produced above and beyond their normal year in year out performance. Outside of maybe Fraser and King (because so little was expected of them) are the only Kings forwards I'd consider giving giving "A"s to. Even Kopitar still struggled producing at a consistent pace at points in the season, and that isn't an "A" year to me. The only true "A" players on this team this year are Quick and maybe Mitchell, Voinov, Fraser, and King. Everyone else I'd view as a "B" at very best and a lot of "C"s...

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Old
04-09-2012, 08:35 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
This is spot on. There isn't a single forward on the roster (Dwight King being maybe the one exception) that deserves an "A" grade. To me an "A" grade should be reserved for players that exceeded pre-season expectations or produced above and beyond their normal year in year out performance. Outside of maybe Fraser and King (because so little was expected of them) are the only Kings forwards I'd consider giving giving "A"s to. Even Kopitar still struggled producing at a consistent pace at points in the season, and that isn't an "A" year to me. The only true "A" players on this team this year are Quick and maybe Mitchell, Voinov, Fraser, and King. Everyone else I'd view as a "B" at very best and a lot of "C"s...
with this grading, a player would be able to qualify with an A only a few times their whole career. Even if a player were improving every year, you'd start to level "expectations" on their improvement. That's a ridiculous grading system.

While I do agree that players should be graded a bit more harshly for not meeting expectations, I think some players like Kopitar and Doughty will never be able to meet expectations. You see them play a few great games then we start to think they can be that flashy for 82 games a season, which is unrealistic.

I think the harsh grades on Doughty is overdone. Some of you are giving him D's as our #1 defender?? The only reason you see him exposed because he's always out there. I think at worst, he's been a B. I probably give him a B+

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Old
04-09-2012, 08:46 PM
  #61
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Grades are subjective (obviously) but based on performance versus expectation for that particular player.

FORWARDS:

Kopitar: B+
Brown: B
Williams: A
Richards: C+
Carter: B-
King: A+
Lewis: B-
Penner: F
Stoll: D
Fraser: B
Nolan: B+
Clifford: C-

DEFENSE:

Doughty: B-
Mitchell: A+
Voynov: A
Scuderi: A
Martinez: B+
Greene: B

GOALIES:

Quick: A+
Bernier: B

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Old
04-09-2012, 10:10 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
with this grading, a player would be able to qualify with an A only a few times their whole career. Even if a player were improving every year, you'd start to level "expectations" on their improvement. That's a ridiculous grading system.
While I do agree that players should be graded a bit more harshly for not meeting expectations, I think some players like Kopitar and Doughty will never be able to meet expectations. You see them play a few great games then we start to think they can be that flashy for 82 games a season, which is unrealistic.
That's kind of the whole point of being a grading system... If an A is obtainable by everyone every year it's not really that special when a guy gets it right? In this system B basically becomes the grade for a player that shows little to no improvement from year to year (ie Kopitar, Williams, Brown this past year) but continues to put up numbers right around what they have in the past.

How many years now have we gone around and around about Kopitar and him needing to step up and play consistently over the course of an entire season? Yet every year he takes 15-20 games off and vanishes from the score sheet. Until he shows me that ~90 point season a lot of us think he's capable of, he's a B player scoring right about his career average.

Then you look at Quick, what he's done this year is fantastic and he's played like one of (if not the best) goalies in the NHL, that's an A season. If next year he continues to play like he has this year and again is tops in the NHL another A, if struggles and fades back to the rest of the pack that's a B or C season. The bar of expectations has shifted until you have a clear picture of whether this season is the anomally or the norm.

Bottom line; Your best players should be expected to be your best players. But also while Kopitar led the team in most categories he still didn't have that break out offensive year that some think he's capable of having and the same issues he's had since he broke into the league are still there. But his improvements on the defensive side of things save him from a C grade and bump him up to a B. The room for improvement is still there if the consistency ever comes. if not he's still a very good 1st line center.

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Old
04-10-2012, 02:38 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
According to Sam's post, you are in the minority.

Sure he makes a few nice defensive plays here and there, but at 3.4mil, he better be doing that plus more. As I said in my first post, if you stick Drewiske in there, I'm sure he'd make a few good plays every now and then as well.

He's second on the team in blocked shots; Good. What else does he do in addition that warrants his contract? He's a -7... worst on the team with the exception of Carter who shouldn't really count.

He struggles to move the puck out of the zone which in many instances negates a potential offensive rush, rather opting to play hot potato with Doughty or just flinging pucks blindly around the defensive zone.

In the offensive zone, the guy is completely clueless. And while I know he isn't paid to put up points... at least be able to get a shot on net every once in a while. Even Matt Greene can do that....

No physical game whatsoever. Lowest hit per game ratio of all the defenseman and ranked near the bottom on the entire team... I mean he's pretty close to Jeff Carter territory in this respect.


So, I'd like to hear your reasons as to why he deserves that B+ (or higher).... other than he makes underrated defensive plays that people dont notice.
Thank you. Nailed it.

Scuderi is overpaid for what he brings. His puck-handling and offensive ability is nil, and that's why he leads the team in puck-over-the-glass delay of game penalties. The hot potato comment was spot on.

My biggest issue with Scuderi is his lack of physicality. I get it, that's not his game. But there are times when a little physical play is necessary and he simply doesn't have it. The game winning goals in those final two games vs San Jose were scored by a Shark who went around a lazy poke-check attempt by Scuderi to score.

Game 81:


Game 82:


For the amount he is being paid, L.A. could do better.

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Old
04-10-2012, 02:42 AM
  #64
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Scuderi is being overpaid but wow are you ever simplifying what he brings to the table. I admit that this season has been his worst in a Kings uniform, and at times his focus has been lacking, but his defensive zone reads and stick work are generally excellent. We can play cherry pick the screenshots where Scuderi was on the ice for a goal, but there's no way to quantify the goals he's prevented.

And I don't want to hear the +/- argument... this team has barely scored any goals this year and Scuderi routinely faces the toughest competition.

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Old
04-10-2012, 08:11 AM
  #65
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How can we begin to rate anyone with our coaching ... Which I stated we should have ditched 3 years ago...

GM Lombardi - F
Murray - F - because he is afraid to activate his D
Sutter - B+- A-
If Sutter had his own coaches he would have been an A for sure.

Cannot grade players by any means due to strategic shortcomings over numerous years.

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04-10-2012, 09:10 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
GM Lombardi - F
Murray - F - because he is afraid to activate his D
Sutter - B+- A-
If Sutter had his own coaches he would have been an A for sure.
I don't see how DL gets an F, a D sure but he at least made a coaching change and went out and got Carter at the deadline, which are both looking like good moves. A F would've been warranted had he left Murray in place the whole year or not made a move to make the Kings better. We can argue whether he waited too long to fire Murray or whether he should have went after Carter soonerbut I think that's why he gets a C or D, but definately not an F, because he made moves to attempt to right the ship.

As far as the coaching staff I think the only move we may see is Kompon being let go and Nichols brought in as an assistant coach. I can't see Stevens or Ranford being let go because well let's face it, the Kings strengths right now are defense and goaltending and those are the two largely responsible for that. Also keep in mind Sutter was given the option to bring his own staff in but opted to keep the current staff in place through the season.

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Old
04-10-2012, 09:33 AM
  #67
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The Ontario Hockey League today announced that Tyler Toffoli of the Ottawa 67ís is the OHL Player of the Week for the playoff week ending April 8 after scoring four goals in three games.

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Old
04-10-2012, 10:44 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
Scuderi is being overpaid but wow are you ever simplifying what he brings to the table. I admit that this season has been his worst in a Kings uniform, and at times his focus has been lacking, but his defensive zone reads and stick work are generally excellent. We can play cherry pick the screenshots where Scuderi was on the ice for a goal, but there's no way to quantify the goals he's prevented.

And I don't want to hear the +/- argument... this team has barely scored any goals this year and Scuderi routinely faces the toughest competition.
He's just getting lazy with his stickwork. In the first screenshot, his skates literally stayed in the same spot for several seconds, even when the shooter had the puck.

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Old
04-10-2012, 11:40 PM
  #69
The Black1963
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Herby in Black

Me in Red

Forwards

Kopitar A B
Brown B+ B
King B+ B
Williams B B+
Carter B B+
Nolan B B
Fraser B B-
Richards C B-
Lewis C B
Clifford C C+
Gagne C- C
Richardson D+ C+
Loktionov D D+
Westgarth D D+
Hunter D D
Stoll D- D+
Penner F C-
Moreau F D+

Defenseman

Mitchell A+ A
Greene A B+
Voynov A A-
Martinez B B+
Scuderi B- B+
Doughty C+ C+
Drewiske Incomplete B

Goaltenders

Quick A+ A
Bernier B- B

Coaching

Sutter B+ A
Murray F C+

DL B

See Herby, you and I really aren't that far apart.

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Old
04-11-2012, 11:11 AM
  #70
tigermask48
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RH, your grades are almost spot on with mine that I was hoping to post later today... Nicely done. There's maybe only 3-4 that I'd argue should be changed but yeah, good list.

Forwards

Kopitar B
Brown B
King B really looks good next to Richards
Williams B
Carter B been good, but not the spark I was hoping.
Nolan B
Fraser B
Richards C probably a A before he was injured, not the same after the injury.
Lewis C need more offense than he's provided
Clifford C sophmore slump hopefully
Gagne C pretty much what we expected...
Richardson D when he's on, he's solid, when he's bad, he's awful.
Loktionov D I can has offense at some point?
Westgarth C better overall than last year, no one to fight maybe?
Hunter D typical big guy recovering from knee surgery year.
Stoll D thought he'd excel in a 3rd line role and replace Zues. Wrong.
Penner D was acquired to score goals, hasn't. effective checker, didn't complain.
Moreau D meh.

Defenseman

Mitchell A best D-man the Kings have had this year.
Greene B knows his role, does it well.
Voynov A replaced JJ as a rookie and doesn't look out of place
Martinez B
Scuderi B
Doughty B- needs to stop trying to do too much and simplify his game
Drewiske B looks good after sitting for long stretches, knows his role.

Goaltenders

Quick A
Bernier B

Coaching

Sutter A
Murray D
Stevens B
Ranford B
Kompon D seriously, guy needs to go, just not getting it done.

DL C solid trades, waited too long to pull the trigger on TM firing.


Last edited by tigermask48: 04-11-2012 at 01:41 PM. Reason: added grades to post
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