On top of that, here in Switzerland, he was a sniper. Not THE sniper but he had good qualities in this area and had a much higher goal/game ratio. (we have very decent goalies here)
I expect these qualities to resurface at a point in time.
(i will save you my theories on why and when but you can find them on an earlier thread)
I am happy he landed with the monster on the rise.
Very nice read. Josi has quickly moved himself up the ranks and is my fave behind Weber for Dman. When Suter leaves us this summer, Josi will step right in and we won't even notice very much. I hope Ekholm can follow Josi's path.
The Josi-Gill pairing is going to be a key for success. If they play well I really liek our chances. At times they look incredible and most of the time they are playing really solid hockey. Josi is likely underrated by other teams fans because they simply don't know who he is but he has 1st pair potential. Also that pairing allows us to use Klein and Boullion as the third pairing and I know both are whipping boys but you must admit that is a solid third pairing.
The Josi-Gill pairing is going to be a key for success. If they play well I really liek our chances. At times they look incredible and most of the time they are playing really solid hockey. Josi is likely underrated by other teams fans because they simply don't know who he is but he has 1st pair potential. Also that pairing allows us to use Klein and Boullion as the third pairing and I know both are whipping boys but you must admit that is a solid third pairing.
Josi might have more on his plate if the worry from the media is true about Gill. I hope it is all just getting the big guy rest and a smoke screen per say. Gill/Josi are going to be just as important as Weber/Suter.
They project him as a top 4 D, tough from what I'm seeing I would have ranked him something higher than 7.0B.
Alright, seriously...how do you rank Roman Josi, who has a dynamic skill set and has shown himself as a steady NHL defenseman this season behind Jonathon Blum, who is a solid all-around guy going through a sophomore slump this season and has been buried in the minors since December?
While Blum is the safer pick, Josi has a much higher upside. Both are great prospects that should go on to have long NHL careers - if Blum can prove himself on his next recall and if Josi can stay healthy, but in the long run Blum's upside is likely as Dan Hamhuis, while Josi I would compare to Kimmo Timonen or obviously Mark Streit.
as much as I appreciate being able to use these boards, HF's titular function (i.e. keeping track of the players who are "hockey's future") seems to be completely lame, or at least whoever covers the Preds seems to put in very little effort
Alright, seriously...how do you rank Roman Josi, who has a dynamic skill set and has shown himself as a steady NHL defenseman this season behind Jonathon Blum, who is a solid all-around guy going through a sophomore slump this season and has been buried in the minors since December?
While Blum is the safer pick, Josi has a much higher upside. Both are great prospects that should go on to have long NHL careers - if Blum can prove himself on his next recall and if Josi can stay healthy, but in the long run Blum's upside is likely as Dan Hamhuis, while Josi I would compare to Kimmo Timonen or obviously Mark Streit.
maybe they base it on the fact Josi hasnt stayed on the ice for a full season and has a concussion history. Josi has more upside, but Blum probably will play more in the long run than Roman.
In a perfect world they play 75+ games for us for the next 10 years
As always you can not take these ratings dead serious, they're just an opinion, and maybe I'm just being a homer, but at this point and after this season, I don't know how Josi isn't Nashvilles best (defensive) prospect?
Josi came from SC Bern where he was an important piece during their cup run at only 19 years old, he then went to North America where he had two good camps but was forced to play 1.5 years in the AHL due to injuries. He had enough time to accustom himself to the NA game and he looked very solid in Milwaukee. This season, he finally got his chance in the NHL and he hasn't looked back since then. It was the logical next step in his career.
There were some rookie mistakes, but all in all, it was a very solid rookie season for a young defender, and I think you can say he has earned himself a place in Nashvilles top-4, which isn't bad if you consider that the 1-2 spots are as good as set with Weber and Suter.
Of course a sophomore slump could happen, but honestly, Josi managed every step he had to take very well and he didn't have difficulties aside from injuries. Plus, he seemed to be quite comfortable with his role in Nashvilles D, so I don't see why he should regress, except for injuries.
As for his ceiling: If you ask me, out of all the young swiss guys that went to NA in recent years, Josi has the highest upside. I would be surprised if he didn't reach Mark Streits level of play. He has the potential to become as good offensively, and better defensively. And that takes nothing away from Streit, but speaks for Josi.
Time will tell, but at the moment I'm pretty high on Josi.
They project him as a top 4 D, tough from what I'm seeing I would have ranked him something higher than 7.0B.
Not entering into the Blum/Josi debate. I definitely agree that 7 B is inappropriate.
I guess it has more to do with HF not looking at him again this year.
They watched him last year (with a usual natural low esteem for Swiss players), they put him a 7 B.
This year, when reviewing their stance on him, he was injured. Therefore they kept the 7B stance. (as an analyst, when you deal with a prospect behind others more sexy, you will not take the time to dig and ... . In absence of real facts and figures ... they will update it leaving the rating unchanged and putting some common, conventional wisdom tinted "passe partout" comments".
The B rating, means that the analyst was sure at the time that he would be level 7 at least. In fact the analyst must have hesitated between 7B or 7.5C or 8D. He made a conservative choice ... .
I do believe that the analyst, if he seriously looks at him again, will upgrade him without discussion.
yeah... not sure how he can be lower than Blum. Josi has all the tools, and he even man-handled Hossa off the puck - and that is supposed to be his weakness. Imo, he should be #1 on that list - i think he can be an elite 2-way d-man, I don't see that in Ellis or Blum. 7.0B.... more like 8.0B/8.5 C. Just my 2 cents.
I created the last two top 20 for the preds so let me comment in Josi:
1. This season - when some of you say that I have not watched him play, where do you get this huge assumption from? I am a huge Josi fan aNd have seen him play this season a number of different times. He is actually on my fantasy team even! I keep track of his progress all the time.
2. Why is he at #3 and behind Blum - when this top 20 came out Blum still had NHL playoff success over Josi. The other issue is the numerous concussions Josi has had, as some of you pointed out.
3. 7.0b - Can he be a 7.5? Sure you can make an argument for that. I love his offensive upside. I still feel he has to improve defensively if he wants to be a 1st pairing guy. At times he holds on to the puck for too long in his own zone and that causes turnovers. I am aware he is improving in that area. As some of you have mentioned, 7.0 is the safer choice for him right now. That does not mean he can't move to 7.5 if he stays healthy and improves his defensive play. However please be aware that hf does not like to change the number of the rating...more likely to change the letter on it.
I would say he is my favorite preds prospect right now. However it's not my job to be biased.
When Craig Smith was on pace for 50-60 points and I ranked him at #5 you guys ripped me a new one. He finished the season with 36 points and is warming the Bench in the playoffs ... Hindsight is 20/20!
Last edited by Evgeny Oliker: 04-17-2012 at 08:36 AM.
When Craig Smith was on pace for 50-60 points and I ranked him at #5 you guys ripped me a new one. He finished the season with 36 points and is warming the Bench in the playoffs ... Hindsight is 20/20!
I created the last two top 20 for the preds so let me comment in Josi:
1. This season - when some of you say that I have not watched him play, where do you get this huge assumption from? I am a huge Josi fan aNd have seen him play this season a number of different times. He is actually on my fantasy team even! I keep track of his progress all the time.
2. Why is he at #3 and behind Blum - when this top 20 came out Blum still had NHL playoff success over Josi. The other issue is the numerous concussions Josi has had, as some of you pointed out.
3. 7.0b - Can he be a 7.5? Sure you can make an argument for that. I love his offensive upside. I still feel he has to improve defensively if he wants to be a 1st pairing guy. At times he holds on to the puck for too long in his own zone and that causes turnovers. I am aware he is improving in that area. As some of you have mentioned, 7.0 is the safer choice for him right now. That does not mean he can't move to 7.5 if he stays healthy and improves his defensive play. However please be aware that hf does not like to change the number of the rating...more likely to change the letter on it.
I would say he is my favorite preds prospect right now. However it's not my job to be biased.
When Craig Smith was on pace for 50-60 points and I ranked him at #5 you guys ripped me a new one. He finished the season with 36 points and is warming the Bench in the playoffs ... Hindsight is 20/20!
I respect you and thank you for having the courage to face your readers !
1) I took the assumption you didn't see him this season because the rating 7 is for nber 3 and 4 in defense.
You see in his game, he will be a first liner. Give him 2 more years and he will be their. Possibly even 1 year ... if Sutter leaves or if Sutter or Weber is hurt.
Which you, by the way, use to say that at the time you ranked Blum over him was because of last year.
So then, maybe you looked at him but didn't change the rating. We were basically talking about the analysis dated december 2011. Not judging the analyst.
2) that he would not be 9 ... ok. i have a crush on him. I accept a clear bias. But then to have him 7, 8 or 7.5 because of injuries. Pardon me ... 7 or 8 should remain unchanged. That is his potential. A B C D is the risk that he doesn't fulfill his potential. So if you fear for his health ... he deserves a 7.5 (or 8 ... ) with a higher letter.
The number is the expected value and the letter is the dispersion (risk).
don't reduce the expected value because the risk became higher ! increase the risk ! it is intuitive but it is wrong.
3) From player in AHL, he became a 2nd liner in NHL. While being a perfect rookie.
It is a step that, when made, can be considered as a risk reduction !! And he adjusted greatly ... showing higher potential and being lined up in special units (PP and BP). He is regularly the 3rd TOI on defense and had 0.33 pts/game.
7 B rating was before of that.
4) Besides ... relax ... you do your job and it is up to us to discuss. You take the risk to write down your opinion ... that is normal. you are the analyst. We are the public and discuss the things ... and HFboard is great for that !
I respect you and thank you for having the courage to face your readers !
1) I took the assumption you didn't see him this season because the rating 7 is for nber 3 and 4 in defense.
You see in his game, he will be a first liner. Give him 2 more years and he will be their. Possibly even 1 year ... if Sutter leaves or if Sutter or Weber is hurt.
Which you, by the way, use to say that at the time you ranked Blum over him was because of last year.
So then, maybe you looked at him but didn't change the rating. We were basically talking about the analysis dated december 2011. Not judging the analyst.
2) that he would not be 9 ... ok. i have a crush on him. I accept a clear bias. But then to have him 7, 8 or 7.5 because of injuries. Pardon me ... 7 or 8 should remain unchanged. That is his potential. A B C D is the risk that he doesn't fulfill his potential. So if you fear for his health ... he deserves a 7.5 (or 8 ... ) with a higher letter.
The number is the expected value and the letter is the dispersion (risk).
don't reduce the expected value because the risk became higher ! increase the risk ! it is intuitive but it is wrong.
3) From player in AHL, he became a 2nd liner in NHL. While being a perfect rookie.
It is a step that, when made, can be considered as a risk reduction !! And he adjusted greatly ... showing higher potential and being lined up in special units (PP and BP). He is regularly the 3rd TOI on defense and had 0.33 pts/game.
7 B rating was before of that.
4) Besides ... relax ... you do your job and it is up to us to discuss. You take the risk to write down your opinion ... that is normal. you are the analyst. We are the public and discuss the things ... and HFboard is great for that !
Peace Bro we all love hockey.
Torero,
Thanks. One thing that I will agree with you on is that you have a clear bias!
1. 1st pair - anyone can play on the 1st pair at times. Few do it well and consistently. So far he has played mostly on the 2nd pair and I see no clear proof that he is a 1st pair guy. Does he have the potential to get there? A small chance maybe.
2. 9.0 - this is where you lost me sorry. HF gives a 9.0 to elite talent like Lidstrom and Chara. While I like Josi a lot I don't believe he has that upside. If you want to compare him to Strait that's more reasonable....although he is not there yet even.
When you talk about not "reducing expected value" you are maybe not understanding how the hf ratings work?
He was never a 7.5 so he was never reduced. Hf starts each prospect with a number when they are drafted. For that number to go up is rare and the prospect needs to really show he is on a much higher level above the number given. I would say that if he didn't have a serious history of concussions and dominated this season on both ends then maybe. He still has work to do defensively. I see him as a top notch #3 right now with a small upside to be a #2 but not sold on that yet. Blum was all the rave last season... Half an NHL season does not prove much.
3. Adjusting - see Blum... Blum also seemed to adjust perfectly last season. It takes more time to get a clearer picture of a player.
His number may go up to 7.5 in the future but I feel that right now he is rated adequately. There are many #3 who play both special teams and put up 30-40 points a season... It's not a diss on him at all.
Last edited by Evgeny Oliker: 04-17-2012 at 01:19 PM.
I see a great future for Roman IF he can shake the injury/concussion rap. Really thinks the game well, sees the ice. Sure, he can join a long list of players that have been victims of Datsyuk, but seriously in game 5 he was lights out. Suter probably made more mistakes in the qtr finals than Josi did. A real gem, makes you understand why the coaches and scouting staff were so high on him the past 2 yrs.
but you can find them on an earlier thread) 
