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A Look Ahead: 2012 NHL Entry Draft Pt. 3

View Poll Results: Would you..
Draft Grigorenko. 19 40.43%
Trade the pick. 7 14.89%
Draft a defensemen. 21 44.68%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-11-2012, 08:42 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Generic User View Post
Not that I disagree, but it would be foolish to say this with absolute certainty. That's why it is so hard to project these young SEL players. The few goals, few assists 1st year players like Larsson, Zetterberg, Zibanejad, Forsberg, etc. could develop in either (sometimes extreme) direction.
Could he develop well? Absolutely. I'm merely stating what he is now. Out of your list, only Zibanejad was picked in the first round, and he was considered by some to be a reach. Larsson was justifiably a 2nd rounder, and Zetterberg was taken 210th overall (I mistakenly said 9th round earlier, but that was Datsyuk).

Forsberg could become a good player. He could also be MPS or Brule.

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04-11-2012, 08:45 PM
  #227
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would you say more of a J. Larsson kind of guy?
He's more naturally offensive than Larsson. He has skill. He's been compared to MPS, but with more natural finish. We've seen how that has worked out for MPS so far though. 8 points in 41 games earned him a trip back to OKC.

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04-11-2012, 09:10 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
He's more naturally offensive than Larsson. He has skill. He's been compared to MPS, but with more natural finish. We've seen how that has worked out for MPS so far though. 8 points in 41 games earned him a trip back to OKC.
squidz answer me these questions.

how many times have you seen forsberg live?

how many times have you aeen an alsvenskan game live?


yeah, i know you read hf boards but be ****ung serious you dont know **** about him, consensus top 5 pick all year.

Quote:
Forsberg had a bit of a rough start to the season offensively, but has come on nicely over the past couple of months in Leksand – a period that also included some strong play in the World Juniors as a 17-year-old. Forsberg has a high skill level and displays good puck skills to go along with a quality shot. He is an above average skater and plays with a high energy level and is also willing to finish checks and compete in board battles. Overall, he’s still a work in progress, but his ceiling is quite high and his unique skill-set makes him a player that teams will covet in the draft.
from tsr

Quote:
Already has 1 1/2 seasons under his belt in the Swedish Elite League, even though he won't turn 18 until August. One of the more highly touted Swedish forward prospects of the past decade, played a regular shift on Sweden's gold-medal winning WJC team. Strengths: Big, strong winger with power forward potential, adept at protecting the puck from the opposition and working along the walls, big shooter with a quick, hard release. Not afraid to initiate contact and has the strength to win many battles.

Weaknesses: Has to work on skating, his stride is a little choppy. NHL upside: Improvements in skating stride could lead to first-line power forward duty in the NHL. He will be a big load for NHL defencemen and goalies to contend with for many years.
tsn

yeah actual scouts, see the "great shot" "high compete" "plays physical" good skills.

just to clarify

i have nothing against you not linking him, but trying to pass off your bias opinion as fact is what bothers me, you know nothing of him, never seen him live and haven't followed him for a few years like most scouts, you read HF boards and come in here trying to drop some knowledge on Forsberg like you know your **** but you don't, you proved it by not knowing anything of the league he plays in or having seen any games. you don't like him fine, but quit trying to be a ****ing expert when you are just as clueless as any guy here.


Last edited by forthewild: 04-11-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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04-11-2012, 09:24 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
squidz answer me these questions.

how many times have you seen forsberg live?

how many times have you aeen an alsvenskan game live?


yeah, i know you read hf boards but be ****ung serious you dont know **** about him, consensus top 5 pick all year.

from tsr



tsn

yeah actual scouts, see the "great shot" "high compete" "plays physical" good skills.
Same number as you. If he's ever been consensus top 5, it's only since March. For example, FC didn't rank him in the top 5 until March. He started the year ranked outside of the top 15 by many organizations.

Read your own quotes: "Improvements in skating stride could lead to first-line power forward duty in the NHL."

Meanwhile, Grigorenko gets "Has the capability of being a skilled number one center at the NHL level." Trouba gets "Has the physical package to be a top two defenceman in the NHL if he learns the finer points of playing defence." Dumba gets "Has the skills to be a power play quarterback and top two defenceman." Reinhart gets "Has the size, skill and skating ability to be a top two NHL defenceman." Faksa gets "The physical package is there to be a top two winger that provides size and offence to an NHL lineup soon."

One of these things is not like the other. They think he might have a chance to become a top liner maybe if he completely changes they way he skates. Even Faksa garners more confidence in his ability than Forsberg does.

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04-11-2012, 09:28 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Same number as you. If he's ever been consensus top 5, it's only since March. For example, FC didn't rank him in the top 5 until March. He started the year ranked outside of the top 15 by many organizations.

Read your own quotes: "Improvements in skating stride could lead to first-line power forward duty in the NHL."

Meanwhile, Grigorenko gets "Has the capability of being a skilled number one center at the NHL level." Trouba gets "Has the physical package to be a top two defenceman in the NHL if he learns the finer points of playing defence." Dumba gets "Has the skills to be a power play quarterback and top two defenceman." Reinhart gets "Has the size, skill and skating ability to be a top two NHL defenceman." Faksa gets "The physical package is there to be a top two winger that provides size and offence to an NHL lineup soon."

One of these things is not like the other. They think he might have a chance to become a top liner maybe if he completely changes they way he skates. Even Faksa garners more confidence in his ability than Forsberg does.
i guess you neglected these parts of faksa

Quote:
lacks explosiveness in skating
(tsn) and MAJOR CONCUSSION. every prospect has the ability to be a top play and they also have the chance to get there. Griogorenko has been what a top 2 ranked for a while now that is ahead of forsberg. Forsberg is better then Faksa in every way including not having a major head injury that could be hit from good bye career.

ALSO that says IMPROVEMENTS IN STRIDE no where is it saying he has to learn to skate differently, you know in becoming Wild that guy who worked with our PROSPECTS to IMPROVE THEIR STRIDE? yeah seems like if we get Forsberg he might have some time with that skating coach.

get it, his stride is a bit choppy, he doesn't have to re-learn to skate, jeez bias is ****ing bias

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04-11-2012, 09:41 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
i guess you neglected these parts of faksa

(tsn) and MAJOR CONCUSSION. every prospect has the ability to be a top play and they also have the chance to get there. Griogorenko has been what a top 2 ranked for a while now that is ahead of forsberg. Forsberg is better then Faksa in every way including not having a major head injury that could be hit from good bye career.

ALSO that says IMPROVEMENTS IN STRIDE no where is it saying he has to learn to skate differently, you know in becoming Wild that guy who worked with our PROSPECTS to IMPROVE THEIR STRIDE? yeah seems like if we get Forsberg he might have some time with that skating coach.

get it, his stride is a bit choppy, he doesn't have to re-learn to skate, jeez bias is ****ing bias
Making things up just because someone else doesn't like your favored prospect is pretty sad. You should probably just stop crying all over the thread.

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04-11-2012, 09:47 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Making things up just because someone else doesn't like your favored prospect is pretty sad. You should probably just stop crying all over the thread.
what did i make up? he aint my favorite either

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=58415 read faksa weakness analysis, and faksa has concussion no? isnt it serious? so what did i make up

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04-11-2012, 09:56 PM
  #233
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what did i make up? he aint my favorite either

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=58415 read faksa weakness analysis, and faksa has concussion no? isnt it serious? so what did i make up
Quote:
consensus top 5 pick all year.
Quote:
i guess you neglected these parts of faksa
Quote:
get it, his stride is a bit choppy, he doesn't have to re-learn to skate, jeez bias is ****ing bias
Quote:
no where is it saying he has to learn to skate differently
Quote:
you proved it by not knowing anything of the league he plays
If you can't post remotely intelligently, don't post at all. Do you understand what "skating" is? Because your comments pretty much prove you don't. Do you understand what "B-league" is? It's a league below the top league. Oh wow, that's exactly what Allsvenskan is. Imagine that! Were you aware that 18, 9, and 6 are all outside of the top 5?

Get over it. Some people don't like your little baby.

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04-11-2012, 10:03 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
If you can't post remotely intelligently, don't post at all. Do you understand what "skating" is? Because your comments pretty much prove you don't. Do you understand what "B-league" is? It's a league below the top league. Oh wow, that's exactly what Allsvenskan is. Imagine that! Were you aware that 18, 9, and 6 are all outside of the top 5?

Get over it. Some people don't like your little baby.
so tsn said Has to work on skating, his stride is a little choppy. to which i said Wild brought in a teacher who works on skating and that is wrong? umm yeah

you did prove you know jack ****ing **** of Swedish hockey because you clamored he isn't good enough to play in SEL when that is wrong. he didn't play in SEL because his team ins't in the SEL not because of his lack of skill.

tsn has had him top 5 since start, and in their mid terms where they poll NHL scouts.

you mentioned how forsbergs skating is lacking but even tho it said faksa lacks explosive skating you left it out, so not wrong there

so i fail to see where i was wrong, aside from not every publication having him top 5 all year. also does FC have a full time euro scout? i don't know much of their scouting staff.

you just proved your self wrong, in his weakness it said his stride is choppy and i point it out but somehow i'm wrong.

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04-11-2012, 10:14 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
so tsn said Has to work on skating, his stride is a little choppy. to which i said Wild brought in a teacher who works on skating and that is wrong? umm yeah

you did prove you know jack ****ing **** of Swedish hockey because you clamored he isn't good enough to play in SEL when that is wrong. he didn't play in SEL because his team ins't in the SEL not because of his lack of skill.

tsn has had him top 5 since start, and in their mid terms where they poll NHL scouts.

you mentioned how forsbergs skating is lacking but even tho it said faksa lacks explosive skating you left it out, so not wrong there

so i fail to see where i was wrong, aside from not every publication having him top 5 all year. also does FC have a full time euro scout? i don't know much of their scouting staff.

you just proved your self wrong, in his weakness it said his stride is choppy and i point it out but somehow i'm wrong.
You see, when you skate, you primarily propel yourself forward through a movement referred to as a stride. Forsberg has a "choppy stride." In order to correct a "choppy stride" the player has to be taught different movements in regards to their step. Teaching different movements of this type are a complete revision of the act of skating. He needs to completely change the way he skates.


Players in the Swedish leagues (as you're apparently completely unaware) are somewhat frequently loaned to other teams. This is a pretty normal behavior. Forsberg was completely unable to be even a marginal difference maker in Sweden's B-League. He was not skilled enough to be even considered for a move to an SEL team.


TSN is a single institution. A "consensus" requires that all, or nearly all, relevant people agree. TSN is not everyone. Outside of TSN, the only institution I can quickly verify ever had Forsberg in the top 5 (prior to FC's placing him there) is ISS. Meanwhile, numerous other institutions had him ranked well outside of the top 10.


Faksa's skating isn't remotely relevant. Your comment was the equivalent to me insulting your mother. I didn't "neglect to mention" anything. I simply didn't make irrelevant comments.


Again, quit crying because someone doesn't like your little baby.

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04-11-2012, 10:34 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
You see, when you skate, you primarily propel yourself forward through a movement referred to as a stride. Forsberg has a "choppy stride." In order to correct a "choppy stride" the player has to be taught different movements in regards to their step. Teaching different movements of this type are a complete revision of the act of skating. He needs to completely change the way he skates.
or you know be though to not waste movement, didn't phillips have bad skating? didn't he improve a **** tone this summer? didn't wild use a "skating coach" no way is he ranked that high if he has to re learn to skate.

Players in the Swedish leagues (as you're apparently completely unaware) are somewhat frequently loaned to other teams. This is a pretty normal behavior. Forsberg was completely unable to be even a marginal difference maker in Sweden's B-League. He was not skilled enough to be even considered for a move to an SEL team.

or his team was trying to qualify for the SEL and thus kept him, http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...036902012.html
this is his team, he scored half the points of the top guy and he's 17...

also FIND PROOF OF THIS FROM A LEGIT SOURCE OR YOU ARE ****ING LYING

TSN is a single institution. A "consensus" requires that all, or nearly all, relevant people agree. TSN is not everyone. Outside of TSN, the only institution I can quickly verify ever had Forsberg in the top 5 (prior to FC's placing him there) is ISS. Meanwhile, numerous other institutions had him ranked well outside of the top 10.
i will concede this point, tho other publications don't have full time scouts and usually in their rankings euros rise late in the year after WJC and such, but i will say this was a premature statement.

Faksa's skating isn't remotely relevant. Your comment was the equivalent to me insulting your mother. I didn't "neglect to mention" anything. I simply didn't make irrelevant comments.
very relevant as you posted he has top 2 winger potential but neglected his weakness while making forsbergs seem like it was a black hole and couldn't be overcome.

Again, quit crying because someone doesn't like your little baby.
not my little baby and i dont care if you like him or not, I JUST WANT YOU TO QUIT TRYING TO BE A ****ING EXPERT WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW **** ON HIM

i will not say anything on you not liking him my issue is you are spewing made up **** and trying to pass off you OPINION as some factual evidence you having seen him play and thus you know **** just by HF boards.

so to conclude, don't care for your personal taste, dislike you trying to sound educated on him when you don't. just because teams can loan players doesn't mean they do.

also looking at that linky i posted its very possible he was a THIRD LINE PLAYER, you see maybe his role wasn't just to score so him potting a bunch of goals as a 3rd liner would be pretty good actually. as you know usually youngsters in europe don't get to run the show and do what is asked of them.


Last edited by forthewild: 04-11-2012 at 10:42 PM.
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04-11-2012, 10:39 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
not my little baby and i dont care if you like him or not, I JUST WANT YOU TO QUIT TRYING TO BE A ****ING EXPERT WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW **** ON HIM

i will not say anything on you not liking him my issue is you are spewing made up **** and trying to pass off you OPINION as some factual evidence you having seen him play and thus you know **** just by HF boards.

so to conclude, don't care for your personal taste, dislike you trying to sound educated on him when you don't. just because teams can loan players doesn't mean they do.
Still making things up...

The fact that Phillips has improved his skating means absolutely nothing insofar as the degree to which Forsberg needs to change his skating. Quit with the idiotic red herrings. Forsberg's skating needs major revision.

Forsberg was unable to put up even 10 goals in Sweden's B-league. Make all the excuses you like, that doesn't change anything that happened. My statements on this matter have been completely factual.

Look at the statements which were made. TSN believes Faksa should become a first line forward regardless of a lack of first step in his skating. TSN believes Forsberg can only hope to become a 1st line forward if he can resolve his skating issues. Faksa's skating is irrelevant, and therefore not mentioned.


You keep talking about people making things up, but you're the only one who has falsified anything.

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04-11-2012, 10:58 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Still making things up...

The fact that Phillips has improved his skating means absolutely nothing insofar as the degree to which Forsberg needs to change his skating. Quit with the idiotic red herrings. Forsberg's skating needs major revision.

Forsberg was unable to put up even 10 goals in Sweden's B-league. Make all the excuses you like, that doesn't change anything that happened. My statements on this matter have been completely factual.

Look at the statements which were made. TSN believes Faksa should become a first line forward regardless of a lack of first step in his skating. TSN believes Forsberg can only hope to become a 1st line forward if he can resolve his skating issues. Faksa's skating is irrelevant, and therefore not mentioned.


You keep talking about people making things up, but you're the only one who has falsified anything.
dude you are full of ****, so TSN belives that Faksa can be a 1st line forward regardless of skating and Forsberg is 6 spots higher then him even tho its a ****ing dream for him?

phillips was though to have a major weakness in skating, and no where does it say Forsberg need MAJOR improvements see the part that says STRIDE IS A LITTLE CHOPPY, you know what little means don't you? so saying how if phillips could turn a weakness around so can forsberg is wrong? wow holly ****.

you accuse me of making **** up, yet you say he needs MAJOR REVISION (find me a credible scout who agrees, because tsn has said that his stride is a LITTLE choppy) you also make **** up about how his goals are meaning less while you don't know anything of his role.

case and point, he plays 20ish min a night gets top pp unit gets 10g, sure not that much, but if he plays 12-15 min a game, no pp time on the 3rd line then his 10g are impressive. my point that you don't know **** of him is true, you looked at a stats sheet and are not impressed BUT YOU DIDN'T NOT SEE HIM PLAY SO YOU HAVE NO CONTEXT ON HIS 10G. see you need to watch him play to understand if those 10g are the result of role and team (3rd line role due to age and a bad team) or him being inept.

also please find me factual proof of him not being good enough for the SEL and no one wanting him.

until then, maybe use facts when you have them and opinions when you don't.

also on the red herring and skating, many phillips haters believed that phillips couldn't improve his skating, but he did, saying that if a prospect who had a skating issue an improve so can another who has a minor skating issue (TSN and saying his stride is a little choppy and their ranking of him) isn't misleading, its saying prospect can improve skating, specially if they have an experienced and proven teacher (the one Wild use)

also two posts in a row you made stuff up and tried to pass it off as fact, my point was that you don't know him and are using your opinion as fact which you proved two posts in a row.


Last edited by forthewild: 04-11-2012 at 11:06 PM.
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04-11-2012, 10:59 PM
  #239
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I'm new here, and, clearly, don't know as much as either of you, but as an outside observer I have some advice for you forthewild. Swearing doesn't help get your point across. You could be 100% right but when I see 10% of your post censored it's much easier to ignore the knowledge you bring to the table.

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04-11-2012, 11:11 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
dude you are full of ****, so TSN belives that Faksa can be a 1st line forward regardless of skating and Forsberg is 6 spots higher then him even tho its a ****ing dream for him?

phillips was though to have a major weakness in skating, and no where does it say Forsberg need MAJOR improvements see the part that says STRIDE IS A LITTLE CHOPPY, you know what little means don't you? so saying how if phillips could turn a weakness around so can forsberg is wrong? wow holly ****.

you accuse me of making **** up, yet you say he needs MAJOR REVISION (find me a credible scout who agrees, because tsn has said that his stride is a LITTLE choppy) you also make **** up about how his goals are meaning less while you don't know anything of his role.

case and point, he plays 20ish min a night gets top pp unit gets 10g, sure not that much, but if he plays 12-15 min a game, no pp time on the 3rd line then his 10g are impressive. my point that you don't know **** of him is true, you looked at a stats sheet and are not impressed BUT YOU DIDN'T NOT SEE HIM PLAY SO YOU HAVE NO CONTEXT ON HIS 10G. see you need to watch him play to understand if those 10g are the result of role and team (3rd line role due to age and a bad team) or him being inept.

also please find me factual proof of him not being good enough for the SEL and no one wanting him.

until then, maybe use facts when you have them and opinions when you don't.
Your different interpretation of TSN's comments about Forsberg's skating isn't my fault.

If he's only getting 12 minutes TOI, he's not playing well enough to earn more, so it's a moot point whether he's not getting good enough stats because of TOI.

Basically your entire argument hinges upon interpretation of comments about his skating. Beyond that you have a ton of vitriol and rage being spewed about.

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04-11-2012, 11:16 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Your different interpretation of TSN's comments about Forsberg's skating isn't my fault.

If he's only getting 12 minutes TOI, he's not playing well enough to earn more, so it's a moot point whether he's not getting good enough stats because of TOI.

Basically your entire argument hinges upon interpretation of comments about his skating. Beyond that you have a ton of vitriol and rage being spewed about.
how else do you interpret little choppy?

you said i was making a red herring on saying if zack phillips can improve skating with a coach so can forsbergs which isn't misleading at all.

my point on his role and ice time is saying we have no context to judge his stats by like scouts do.

here let me define red herring for you

wikipedia

Quote:
A red herring is a clue or piece of information which is intended to be misleading, or distracting from the actual issue.[1] For example, in mystery fiction, where the identity of a criminal is being sought, an innocent party may be purposefully cast in a guilty light by the author through the employment of deceptive clues, false emphasis, "loaded" words or other descriptive tricks of the trade. The reader's suspicions are thus misdirected, allowing the true culprit to go (temporarily at least) undetected. A false protagonist is another example of a red herring.
using a piece of information to be misleading, hmm which of us is saying

"we don't know the context of his stats" and which one of us is making up facts as if they know about his role, league, team and play?

dude as i have said i have no issue with you personal preference of player, my issue is you using your opinion as fact.

please read what i said, and try to come up with how i'm wrong, and next time you try to use red herring try to know what it is

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04-11-2012, 11:17 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Granlund 64 View Post
I'm new here, and, clearly, don't know as much as either of you, but as an outside observer I have some advice for you forthewild. Swearing doesn't help get your point across. You could be 100% right but when I see 10% of your post censored it's much easier to ignore the knowledge you bring to the table.
Generally being calm and collected with minimal emotional extremes helps add credibility.
And proper capitalization.

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04-11-2012, 11:22 PM
  #243
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I'm gonna laugh at you two when the Wild draft a D-man.

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04-11-2012, 11:23 PM
  #244
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I'm gonna laugh at you two when the Wild draft a D-man.
If Galchenyuk or Grigorenko isn't available (and I don't expect either to be) I desperately hope we draft a d-man.

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04-11-2012, 11:24 PM
  #245
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Hey guys, stop arguing about that bender Forsberg.

Get back to the discussion on who we are actually going to take.









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04-11-2012, 11:25 PM
  #246
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I'm gonna laugh at you two when the Wild draft a D-man.
why? when did i say wild need to go balls out to grab Forsberg, personally I WANT wild to draft a dman.

hell i would be ok to trade down and grab Hampus Lindholm.

my issue with squidz is trying to use opinion as fact nothing more.

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04-11-2012, 11:26 PM
  #247
forthewild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Hey guys, stop arguing about that bender Forsberg.

Get back to the discussion on who we are actually going to take.










all for it.

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04-11-2012, 11:26 PM
  #248
Billy Mays Here
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
I'm gonna laugh at you two when the Wild draft a D-man.
Which they damn well better do because that's what we need most.

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04-11-2012, 11:28 PM
  #249
squidz*
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Rielly > Trouba


see who can resist...

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04-11-2012, 11:29 PM
  #250
forthewild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Rielly > Trouba


see who can resist...
i do like riely better, but he could be gone by 7

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