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A Look Ahead: 2012 NHL Entry Draft Pt. 3

View Poll Results: Would you..
Draft Grigorenko. 19 40.43%
Trade the pick. 7 14.89%
Draft a defensemen. 21 44.68%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-11-2012, 11:32 PM
  #251
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I don't see a (trade free) scenario where Rielly wouldn't be available at 7. Yakupov will be first, Murray, Galchenyuk, and Grigorenko will go almost certainly go before him. Toronto's already overstocked on D. Anaheim isn't looking for a Rielly type defenseman (they'd rather have Dumba, Reinhart, or Trouba). Unless the Islanders really reach, I can't see Rielly off the board before our pick.

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04-11-2012, 11:33 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Rielly > Trouba


see who can resist...


You almost had me.

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04-11-2012, 11:34 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post


You almost had me.
yeah me too it was very well played squidz

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04-11-2012, 11:39 PM
  #254
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another note about the whole league issue with Forsberg, here is the 2011-2012 playoffs

http://www.eliteprospects.com/standi...startdate=2011

djurgardens is no longer in SEL, they got beaten out by a Alsvenskan team.

djurgardens was where Zibinajad plays

simply put without seeing forsberg play and knowing the circumstance his stats cannot be a clear indication of who he is.


Last edited by forthewild: 04-11-2012 at 11:58 PM.
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04-12-2012, 01:08 AM
  #255
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A tool that might help you all...

http://www.stateofhockeynews.com/201...tracker12.html

I've made this the last few years where perhaps it can help highlight (literally) the movement of players on Central Scouting's Final Rankings. It is always interesting to see how the movement plays out between the Mid-Term and Final Rankings. I thought about making its own individual thread but since this is covering the draft I figured I might place it here instead. Enjoy!

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04-12-2012, 07:10 AM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
http://www.stateofhockeynews.com/201...tracker12.html

I've made this the last few years where perhaps it can help highlight (literally) the movement of players on Central Scouting's Final Rankings. It is always interesting to see how the movement plays out between the Mid-Term and Final Rankings. I thought about making its own individual thread but since this is covering the draft I figured I might place it here instead. Enjoy!
Love the article but I have hard time reading green and blue names against the white background. Can you make the colors a bit darker?

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04-12-2012, 07:57 AM
  #257
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I can do that...

I made the adjustments, how does it look now?

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04-12-2012, 08:00 AM
  #258
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Sounds like Faksa was back on Tuesday and scored in his team's win. Hopefully that means the severity of his concussion was overstated and he's going to be fine. I'm sure all teams interested in him are going to look very very closely at whether they think he's 100%.

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04-12-2012, 08:16 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
I made the adjustments, how does it look now?
Much better.

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04-12-2012, 08:35 AM
  #260
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-edited out wasn't adding anything-

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04-12-2012, 08:43 AM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I don't see a (trade free) scenario where Rielly wouldn't be available at 7. Yakupov will be first, Murray, Galchenyuk, and Grigorenko will go almost certainly go before him. Toronto's already overstocked on D. Anaheim isn't looking for a Rielly type defenseman (they'd rather have Dumba, Reinhart, or Trouba). Unless the Islanders really reach, I can't see Rielly off the board before our pick.
Hmm. Interesting.

I can't wait until two of Columbus, Montreal, and Islanders draft Galchenyuk and Grigorenko, and Burke flips out. Forsberg may be a good player, but he projects as a winger in the NHL and vision is not his strength.

I wonder if that means Toronto or Anaheim reaches for Faska or Gaunce? Hoping they can be the center they need?

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04-12-2012, 08:49 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Hmm. Interesting.

I can't wait until two of Columbus, Montreal, and Islanders draft Galchenyuk and Grigorenko, and Burke flips out. Forsberg may be a good player, but he projects as a winger in the NHL and vision is not his strength.

I wonder if that means Toronto or Anaheim reaches for Faska or Gaunce? Hoping they can be the center they need?
yeah i can really see this happen

yakupov
galchenyuk
grigorenko
forsberg

not saying it will but i wont be surprises if it does.

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04-12-2012, 08:58 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Hmm. Interesting.

I can't wait until two of Columbus, Montreal, and Islanders draft Galchenyuk and Grigorenko, and Burke flips out. Forsberg may be a good player, but he projects as a winger in the NHL and vision is not his strength.

I wonder if that means Toronto or Anaheim reaches for Faska or Gaunce? Hoping they can be the center they need?
If teams are comfortable with Faksa's recovery, and they think he'll work out at center (I've heard talk of him being moved to wing), I don't see why teams wouldn't be willing to reach for him when the "top tier" forwards are gone. He certainly has the size, and seems to have the instincts. I'd be more surprised if Toronto selected him though. He seems to be "top line winger or second line center" rather than that 1C Burke is after. Then again, the only real 1Cs in this draft are Galchenyuk and Grigorenko.

I think we might see Toronto make a play for 2nd overall. I think Columbus (figuring picks 2 and 3 this way would be Gally and Grigs) would be willing to move back to 5 for say Holzer, Blacker, or one of Toronto's other young defensemen. They do have JJ and the Wiz (which would be an awesome 70s-80s sitcom title) but otherwise it's Methot, Tyutin, and a lot of nothing, Holzer + 5th overall would either completely shore up their defense, or bring them very close and help their problems up front.

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04-12-2012, 09:03 AM
  #264
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I really don't see Columbus drafting Galchenyuk. Of the forwards, I think he's the most likely, but so much media attention has been given to him being "Russian" (insert long rant here about his heritage) that I don't think they can take the PR hit. There could be a slim chance for them to select Forsberg there, but otherwise I'd say it's defenseman or trade down for Columbus.

Or we could get all crazy and they convince Edmonton that Wisniewski+ is good enough for 1st overall and draft both Yakupov and Galchenyuk. Maybe they wouldn't draft one Russian, but they could spin the PR to draft two...

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04-12-2012, 09:30 AM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
They do have JJ and the Wiz (which would be an awesome 70s-80s sitcom title) but otherwise it's Methot, Tyutin, and a lot of nothing, Holzer + 5th overall would either completely shore up their defense, or bring them very close and help their problems up front.
Nikitin is a solid young player, and John Moore may very well be their Scandella. With the way Jack Johnson has played since he got there (not a large sample size, I know), I wouldn't be surprised with them taking an F or D.

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04-12-2012, 09:32 AM
  #266
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I am confident a top 5 ranked player will fall to 7. I think one of Toronto or Anaheim will go off the board, and I am not worried about whoever the Islanders pick. In the last two drafts we've walked away with Granlund/Brodin, while NYI has picked 4 and 5 spots higher and walked away with Nino/Strome. Was just reading a bunch of Isles fans saying they just hope both don't completely bust after the seasons those two had.

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04-12-2012, 09:34 AM
  #267
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Forsberg to me is just a "meh" pick. His ceiling I'm guessing is Mikko, just like Coyle, and just like the Mikko we already have. He hasn't shown the ability to jump up to the top league and to me that means he's a longer-term prospect.

So you throw non-elite talent with redundant skill level and a longer-term development schedule, and he's just a non-starter for me at that pick. In the low 1st round, sure. In the early 2nd, sure. 7th overall? Not doing much for me.

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04-12-2012, 09:40 AM
  #268
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I think people are completely missing the boat on Forsberg based on who I've talked about him with. Not all that surprising because most of us just really haven't seen him at all and it's hard to judge based on reading alone. If some of you are worried about him, well, I don't think you should be as I believe he'll be gone well in advance of the Wild picking.

However, I do believe if he were somehow still available, he'd be the Wild's pick...

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04-12-2012, 09:52 AM
  #269
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I have to think where we pick, Nail, Grigo, and Murray are off the board. I don't see the Wild going for Forsberg. Maybe Gal but I don't know if he falls that far.

I think after Murray, Rielly would be the top guy to pick. He's a great offensive defenseman who was coming around defensively before his injury. The buzz is he could challenge Murray for first defensemen if not injured. Only thing is, he'd have to probably play at least one year of juniors to come back from the injury so he wouldn't be able to step in next year.

Dumba might be the only D-man at the Wild's spot that could potentially jump into the NHL next year. He played great this year, is filling out, and has the speed and physical game. I still think while he might not be a superstar #1 guy, he could be just an awesome top four and possible top pairing defenseman. And give the organization a shot in the arm.

Trouba seems like a solid pick, although he would likely play at least a year at Michigan (guessing two). So he's not going to change anything for the Wild the next couple seasons. I'm also not sure what he would provide that Scandella doesn't (or project to at least).

Reinhart, he sounds like a nice pick, but again I don't see him as a big time upgrade over Scandella. He's big, makes a good first pass, has a little offense to his game, but size alone doesn't make you a high end defenseman. Strikes me as a safe pick without as much reward, which isn't what you want in the top 10.

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04-12-2012, 10:04 AM
  #270
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If Galchenyuk somehow falls to us (which would be astonishing because both Anaheim and Toronto need him, and it seems Montreal wants him) I don't think there's any question he's the pick. Reports are that Flahr really really likes him.

It's hard to say who the front office likes for defensemen though. They seem to have a somewhat different outlook than convention. I expect Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, and Murray will all go before our pick. It's plausible that Forsberg could go up there too, but I am much less convinced of that. I'd say it's about 50/50 that Dumba's gone by our pick as well. Reinhart, Faksa, and Trouba could all go before us as well (meaning Faksa to either Toronto or Anaheim and Reinhart/Trouba to Anaheim or NYI).

Obviously, I'd like us to pick Rielly. If Dumba's available, I think we probably should pick him, but as I've mentioned, I'm not much of a fan (which is strange considering how much I like P.K. Subban). Over anyone else, I'd go with Galchenyuk though.

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04-12-2012, 10:13 AM
  #271
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Obviously, I'd like us to pick Rielly. If Dumba's available, I think we probably should pick him, but as I've mentioned, I'm not much of a fan (which is strange considering how much I like P.K. Subban). Over anyone else, I'd go with Galchenyuk though.
Barring something huge happening, this is how I feel as well. I will be shocked if Galchenyuk is there at 7, surprised if Dumba is, expecting Rielly to be.

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04-12-2012, 10:23 AM
  #272
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Nikitin is a solid young player, and John Moore may very well be their Scandella. With the way Jack Johnson has played since he got there (not a large sample size, I know), I wouldn't be surprised with them taking an F or D.
Sweet. That horrible Axe ad deleted my post...



Anyway, neither JJ nor the Wiz are true #1 guys. Johnson's showing some promise, and could maybe fulfill that role, but many would argue Wisniewski isn't even top pairing material. Tyutin has looked decent, but he's a 3-4 guy at best. I know nothing about Methot other than he has a $4MM cap hit for the rest of eternity and is not an offensive guy.

Nikitin has looked pretty good since coming over, but he definitely did not look that way in St. Louis. At the time of the trade, people were calling Russell for Nikitin an absolute steal for the Blues for a reason. I don't know much about Moore, other than him being billed as an offensive guy but that hasn't shown up on the stat sheet. He had 7 points in 63 games and a painful -23 this year. His numbers in Springfield don't look any better.

Basically the BJs look like this on defense (age for first game next season in parenthesis):

[No one]-JJ (25)
Wiz (28) - Tyutin (29)
Methot (27) - Nikitin (26)
Moore (21.9)

Of course their forwards look painful too, but I don't think they can take the PR hit on Grigs or Gally, and I think you all know how I feel about Forsberg.

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04-12-2012, 10:51 AM
  #273
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This is the problem with Minnesota's defense: they are soft.

Gilbert, Scandella, Brodin, Spurgeron, Kampfer are not known for their toughness. Stoner and Falk are depth at best. There is no size and no strength on that defense. Getting another offensive defenseman or two-way defenseman, it seems like a waste.

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04-12-2012, 11:14 AM
  #274
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This is the problem with Minnesota's defense: they are soft.

Gilbert, Scandella, Brodin, Spurgeron, Kampfer are not known for their toughness. Stoner and Falk are depth at best. There is no size and no strength on that defense. Getting another offensive defenseman or two-way defenseman, it seems like a waste.
I disagree on the Scandella (and very slightly the Spurgeon) front. Scandella has been rather physical, and certainly not soft in his play this year. I don't think it can really be argued he lacks that aspect. Spurgeon is small, but he's also very physical. Because of his size, he can be bumped off the puck more easily than we'd like, but he's not particularly soft by any measure. Neither Brodin nor Kampfer are big hitters either, but from what I've seen, Brodin's not soft on the puck. Also, Gilbert hasn't been particularly soft.

We have had issues with "crease clearing" but that seems more a style issue than a softness one. Anyway, I wouldn't mind bringing in Dumba for the physical element we are somewhat lacking on the back end. However, the only other highly ranked d-man who's known for having a physical edge to his game is Trouba. Reinhart's got the size, but he's about as non-physical as you can get. Ceci's also big, but must be afraid the other team has cooties. After that, the next physical kind of guy is Koekkoek, whom some think could slip out of the first round entirely.

So, the focus on offensive defensemen is partially a lack of agreement about the need for more physicality on the back end, but also a lack of genuine options. If Dumba's not available, Trouba is the only defense option with a physical edge to his game. Personally, I'd rather have the potentially elite play from Rielly instead. We can take a risk on a more physical defenseman with our 2nd rounder, or try to find one via free agency or trade. Not every team needs a Kronwall, and the "lesser" physical guys are some of the more commonly available in free agency and trade.

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04-12-2012, 11:16 AM
  #275
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I'd argue it's better to draft a high end offensive defenseman (who will likely spend a year in juniors) with a #7 pick than to get a two-way guy who is physical at that pick with limited offense.

If we want a pure physical defenseman, why spend a 7th overall on him? Target someone in the 2nd round, or pick up via trade, or wait and see how Falk and Stoner develop. Both guys are huge and physical, although they have flaws.

I'm not sure many teams have a physical defenseman without offensive talent on their top pairing.

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