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Old
04-08-2012, 05:46 PM
  #926
J17 Vs Proclamation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Yes they do count as British trained.

I disagree that the most important years were spent abroad, I believe the younger years are more important. Lots of guys on HF in The Rink section who have played from a young age said in NA you had no chance of making it if your parents couldn't afford to send you to loads of hockey camps at a very young age, there are a few exceptions such as guys who didn't start playing until they were older. The younger years are more important because at that age you need to teach them how to actually play the game, at U12 level if you can skate well and stickhandle you will dominate, but when you get older that doesn't work anymore and you have to learn to play smart hockey. If you can drum that into kids at a young age it is more effective than when they are older because it has been proven you learn stuff better at a young age (the reason schools want to start teaching languages earlier). All the best players I know have been playing hockey since U10's, I didn't start playing until I was 14, and I've done well to end up playing a higher level than rec. I really do wish I had been able to start earlier though.

For the dual nationals thing, with Tony Hand now coach of the GB team they will be completely gone from the team within the next 2-3 years, Tony Hand hates non-British trained dual nationals in the team, he said so in his book.


Of course all good hockey players began early. That isn't in question. If the players in question here hadn't started at an early age, they wouldn't be where they are today. That isn't in question. Your using a linear argument i guess, that now wouldn't have happened without the past. That is true. It's also true that development is something that is looked at often from a draft eligible age (18-20), when in many instances, it should be looked at a younger age, because if development issues exist within a nation, it's at the younger stage. People every year are taken by suprise with the relative weakness of the current batches of 18 yr old Czech age groups and ask what went wrong? These players were developed poorly at a younger age, and are thus at 18, worse than what we may expect from a classic Czech age group. Development is much more than just concentrating on the 17-18 ages without doubt.

However, discussions on whether the players mentioned can be classified as British trained, seem somewhat tenious. Yes, if they hadn't played hocket at 9 or 10, they wouldn't be playing hocket at the level they do today, but using that as actual reasoning for being British products is fallicious. Your saying without Britain, they aren't hockey players.

The development, the high class development, that both have recieved has primarily come through North America. The ages played in Canada are puberty onwards, by far the more important period of time in discussing how successful they may become, again outside of the fallicious "Well without Britain, they wouldn't play hockey!". The level at which they are at now is primarily down to playing hockey in North America for a sustained period of time from a very young age.

Based on eligibility and that they did play here, yes you can claim they are "British trained". The level they are capability of however can be primarily credited to North America and when it comes down to it, the most fundamental years will have been spent there. They may one day play for Britain, but they aren't really a British product.


Dual nations being a thing of a past can only be good. Often junior players come from former players, and if those former players are from the US/Canada, they will often return and take their children with them, which obviously isn't good.

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04-08-2012, 05:57 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Of course all good hockey players began early. That isn't in question. If the players in question here hadn't started at an early age, they wouldn't be where they are today. That isn't in question. Your using a linear argument i guess, that now wouldn't have happened without the past. That is true. It's also true that development is something that is looked at often from a draft eligible age (18-20), when in many instances, it should be looked at a younger age, because if development issues exist within a nation, it's at the younger stage. People every year are taken by suprise with the relative weakness of the current batches of 18 yr old Czech age groups and ask what went wrong? These players were developed poorly at a younger age, and are thus at 18, worse than what we may expect from a classic Czech age group. Development is much more than just concentrating on the 17-18 ages without doubt.

However, discussions on whether the players mentioned can be classified as British trained, seem somewhat tenious. Yes, if they hadn't played hocket at 9 or 10, they wouldn't be playing hocket at the level they do today, but using that as actual reasoning for being British products is fallicious.Your saying without Britain, they aren't hockey players.

The development, the high class development, that both have recieved has primarily come through North America. The ages played in Canada are puberty onwards, by far the more important period of time in discussing how successful they may become, again outside of the fallicious "Well without Britain, they wouldn't play hockey!". The level at which they are at now is primarily down to playing hockey in North America for a sustained period of time from a very young age.

Based on eligibility and that they did play here, yes you can claim they are "British trained". The level they are capability of however can be primarily credited to North America and when it comes down to it, the most fundamental years will have been spent there. They may one day play for Britain, but they aren't really a British product.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying they obviously received decent coaching and developed well while they were here, to be able to go to NA and play high level bantam and midget.

In my opinion the Perlini brothers are no different to guys like Tom Duggan and other players who left for NA when they were young, the Perlini brothers just get overlooked as being "British" because they are from a Canadian family.

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04-08-2012, 06:03 PM
  #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying they obviously received decent coaching and developed well while they were here, to be able to go to NA and play high level bantam and midget.

In my opinion the Perlini brothers are no different to guys like Tom Duggan and other players who left for NA when they were young, the Perlini brothers just get overlooked as being "British" because they are from a Canadian family.
What ages did the Perlini brothers and Tom Duggan leave for NA respectively?

Perhaps there is some merit to the second point. However, whether a random 11 year old is born from a Canadian family living in Britain or a British family, he is still being developed in North America for a sustained period of time ; time that can be considered as both long and more important than what preceeded.

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04-08-2012, 06:15 PM
  #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
What ages did the Perlini brothers and Tom Duggan leave for NA respectively?

Perhaps there is some merit to the second point. However, whether a random 11 year old is born from a Canadian family living in Britain or a British family, he is still being developed in North America for a sustained period of time ; time that can be considered as both long and more important than what preceeded.
Looking at Malcolm Preen's stats website, Brendan played U12's for Guildford in 06/07, and I can't find him on any of the stats for 07/08 so that must have been when he went to NA, so he would have been 12. I think Brett left when he was 12 also, so they both played a good 6-7 years here before leaving. Elite Prospects says Duggan played midget in 06/07 so he would have been 15 at that time, the only junior stats I can find of Duggan is from the 01/02 season of U12's, so he must have been the same age as the Perlini brothers when he left.

I'm not arguing that these guys didn't benefit from years in NA, but you can't dismiss the fact they played 7 years of junior hockey in England. I'm saying people think of them as being less British trained than guys like Duggan, because they are from a Canadian family. The fact Duggan came back probably makes people think of him as more British too.


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04-08-2012, 06:56 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
Tough to tell. Brett was born in 1990 which would've been Fred's 5th season playing pro over there. With that said, he was born in June so the season would've been over and it's very possible they went back to Canada. I wish Scott Conway represented Great Britain so he could talk his cousin, Brendan Perlini to come play with him for Great Britain lol
Someone said on THF Brendan was in fact born in England.

On another topic, those of you who saw the EIHL final: what did you think of the Lepine hit? Most of THF are morons so I'm disregarding their opinions on it.

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04-08-2012, 07:17 PM
  #931
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It looked like his shoulder got him right in the chin, so you could say it was a head high hit. But Lepine never left his feet and he tried to hit him in the chest. I don't think he meant it to be a dirty hit, he just happened to hit him with his head down a little bit.

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04-08-2012, 07:49 PM
  #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
For the dual nationals thing, with Tony Hand now coach of the GB team they will be completely gone from the team within the next 2-3 years, Tony Hand hates non-British trained dual nationals in the team, he said so in his book. The only ones left this year are Neilson (35) Hutchins (33) and Fussey (29) Cowley is Canadian born but I believe he has played all of his hockey here, possibly might of played a few in Canada when he was very young.
This is going to be interesting to watch. Tony Hand seems very opinionated when it comes to how the Great Britain National Team should be run and now he gets a chance to put his money where his mouth is. If Great Britain doesn't embrace a kid like Perlini who left Great Britain at age 11, they're going to be spinning their tires in mud for a long time hoping for a second coming of Tony Hand (the player).

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04-08-2012, 08:40 PM
  #933
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Panthers win..........
Post game bit on BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/ice-hockey/17652384

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04-08-2012, 09:00 PM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStinger View Post
It looked like his shoulder got him right in the chin, so you could say it was a head high hit. But Lepine never left his feet and he tried to hit him in the chest. I don't think he meant it to be a dirty hit, he just happened to hit him with his head down a little bit.
Sounds familiar to Phaneuf's hit on Mike Sauer that put him out for the season, that was borderline by NHL standards, by IIHF rulebook standards definitely a head hit.

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04-09-2012, 06:54 AM
  #935
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So EPIHL Finals weekend will be
Manchester v Sheffield and MiK v Guildford.
Just an observation but...I gotta...........
If the regular season champ is the league champ anyways.......
Why not make this a weekend showcase tourney? Do away with the two game total goal quarters and bring in all 8 teams for a 2 pool event starting on Friday tops in both pools make the championship game.
Only my thoughts.

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04-09-2012, 07:15 AM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
So EPIHL Finals weekend will be
Manchester v Sheffield and MiK v Guildford.
Just an observation but...I gotta...........
If the regular season champ is the league champ anyways.......
Why not make this a weekend showcase tourney? Do away with the two game total goal quarters and bring in all 8 teams for a 2 pool event starting on Friday tops in both pools make the championship game.
Only my thoughts.
Most EPIHL players are semi-pro, lots of players wouldn't be able to make the trip on the Friday because of work commitments.

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04-10-2012, 09:55 AM
  #937
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Hey, I made a mistake it's Slough v Guildford oooppppps

On the weekly Phoenix video in about the last 10 minutes Tony Hand talks about a camp for team GB in Manchester before the players fly to Slovenia on Saturday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=WCDC3WnJwXM

Just about 33-34 minutes into the vid


Last edited by Alpine: 04-10-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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04-10-2012, 04:00 PM
  #938
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Cardiff sign import goalie Phil Osaer http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=11989

Question now is what happens to Stevie Lyle. Have heard lots of rumours including retirement, Sheffield, France, and Kazakhstan.

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04-12-2012, 09:23 AM
  #939
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If anyone cares the GB women have lost their first 2 games in their WC's. We are hosting the tournament in Hull, it's Division 1B.

Here's the highlights from those games:





These results were better than expected to be honest, especially the Denmark one. They beat the Netherlands 12-0, who are currently 5-0 up against Italy, so we will be expecting to beat the Netherlands and Italy. We play China today who are the top seeds, and qualified for Vancouver in 2010.

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04-12-2012, 11:32 AM
  #940
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Blimey Hull has seats now?

Was all wooden bleachers last time I went there.


In other news, Moria's contract not renewed at Bison, rumours put him at either going home, becoming director of hockey at Cardiff or head coach of us.

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04-12-2012, 12:51 PM
  #941
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From watching those videos it must suck to be a goalie in women's hockey, the D can't clear screening forwards because if you push them you'll get a penalty for half of the goals the GB goalie Jackson concedes in those videos she was screened.

I really should know the rules being a ref but I'm not sure if in womens hockey you are allowed to push to clear a screening forward, from the videos either you're not allowed or the GB defense were just too small and didn't bother trying. That #19 for France was huge.

Edit: GB lose 3-0 against China. This tournament appears to be a massive improvement from last year's


Last edited by Propane Nightmares: 04-12-2012 at 07:30 PM.
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04-14-2012, 07:15 AM
  #942
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The WC's start tomorrow, Tony Hand has named the final roster:

Netminders
Stephen Murphy (Belfast Giants)
Geoff Woolhouse (Sheffield Steelers)
Ben Bowns (Sheffield Steeldogs) – emergency netminder

Defence
Stephen Lee (Nottingham Panthers)
Danny Meyers (Nottingham Panthers)
Corey Neilson (Nottingham Panthers)
David Phillips (SønderjyskE)
Mark Richardson (Cardiff Devils)
Mark Thomas (Sheffield Steelers)

Forwards
David Clarke (Nottingham Panthers)
Robert Dowd (Belfast Giants)
Robert Farmer (Coventry Blaze)
Owen Fussey (Coventry Blaze)
Mark Garside (Belfast Giants)
Jason Hewitt (Sheffield Steelers)
Phil Hill (Cardiff Devils)
Jeff Hutchins (Dundee Stars)
Robert Lachowicz (Nottingham Panthers)
David Longstaff (Guildford Flames)
Matthew Myers (Nottingham Panthers)
Craig Peacock (Belfast Giants)
Jonathan Phillips (Sheffield Steelers)
Colin Shields (Sheffield Steelers)

Russ Cowley has pulled out due to injury, and Jonathan Weaver for personal commitments, Ben O'Connor is also missing due to playoffs in the Kazakhstan league.

I can't for the life of me figure out why he has picked Woolhouse who has no previous senior international experience and is an EIHL backup, over Craze who does have experience and is an EIHL starter people are also upset he has picked an old Longstaff rather than looking to the future with Aaron Nell, no doubt this decision was purely personal since him and Longstaff go way back, but I guess Longstaff's experience is invaluable and he actually had a very good tournament last year.

The team looks a lot weaker than last year, I can't see us finishing any higher than 4th to be honest, Austria will win the group easily, Slovenia will beat us, and I doubt we can beat Ukraine again. Hungary and Japan will be very close games but those are the ones we will be looking to win.

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04-14-2012, 12:02 PM
  #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
Panthers win..........
Post game bit on BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/ice-hockey/17652384
I was there!

Massive Panthers fan. Chuffed all 6 Brits have made the GB team.

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04-14-2012, 03:13 PM
  #944
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Any idea where there might be a live stream of tomorrows game? The top division U18 stream is awful so I can't imagine there will be a very good stream anywhere, if any, for the Div I WC.

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04-14-2012, 06:11 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
Any idea where there might be a live stream of tomorrows game? The top division U18 stream is awful so I can't imagine there will be a very good stream anywhere, if any, for the Div I WC.
The host nation in these tournaments usually streams their own games so there's a good chance there will be one for tomorrow since we are playing the hosts Slovenia, not so sure about the rest though.

For anyone who cares, the GB women lost 4-2 against Italy and will have to beat the Netherlands in the final game to avoid relegation.

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04-14-2012, 09:01 PM
  #946
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The host nation in these tournaments usually streams their own games so there's a good chance there will be one for tomorrow since we are playing the hosts Slovenia, not so sure about the rest though.
Alright, I'll be on this thread tomorrow looking for a link for sure if I find one, I'll be posting it as well

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04-14-2012, 10:27 PM
  #947
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Alright, I'll be on this thread tomorrow looking for a link for sure if I find one, I'll be posting it as well
On the IIHF site is a list of TV broadcasters. Maybe one of them will have the game streamed. No broadcast rights were sold in GB so TV streams may not be blocked. Should get video hi-lites anyways.
Sport TV Slovenia has some videos up now as a warm up..........if I only spoke Slovenian

http://www.sport-tv.si/n157/Hokej/SP_2012

So it's Manchester (after OT and 2 rounds of SO) and Slough (taking out Guildford?) in the EPIHL Playoff final.


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04-14-2012, 11:24 PM
  #948
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I think GB will be in tough.
Austria and Slovenia are kinda yo-yo teams...up and down and up between divisions. Give them an edge.
Also Austria, Hungary, Slovenia have had a few warm-up games to work on lines, systems, schemes, special teams.
Ukraine and Japan I know nothing about except that allot of the players are from Donbass Donetsk which should give them some familiarity.
Japan has 12 players from Asian League team Oy Eagles.

To bad GB couldn't get in any warm-up games or get to Slovenia a few days before to get comfortable with the surroundings.

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04-15-2012, 06:18 AM
  #949
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To bad GB couldn't get in any warm-up games or get to Slovenia a few days before to get comfortable with the surroundings.
Tony Hand and David Longstaff won't be getting there until the tournament has already started!

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04-15-2012, 06:59 AM
  #950
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Tony Hand and David Longstaff won't be getting there until the tournament has already started!
Christiansen will be fine for one game he's a professional coach. Longstaff is there more as a calming influence in the dressing room as a vet. Show how to handle yourself, mentor role me thinks.
It takes many with different roles to make a team.

It was the preparation before the tourney compared to other teams that has me concerned in a round robin format.
Austria, Hungary, Slovenia players know where the restaurants are feel comfortable in the city because of EBEL

But that's up to Ice Hockey UK to organize not the coach and players.
Ya never knows though. Play with some sand paper and discipline.
Heart and positive emotion can go along ways.
Good Luck/Bonne Chance from East Coast Canada.


Last edited by Alpine: 04-15-2012 at 07:18 AM. Reason: DRUNK and can't spell
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