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Ted Black : Ruff and Regier will be back

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Old
04-12-2012, 10:28 AM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
Seems like all of the few positive developments on the Sabres' season were things that "weren't on their radar" and "caught them by surprise."

-Sulzer's play
-Ennis at center, when he was finally tried there
-Foligno, when they were finally forced to play him after emergency recall

Meanwhile, the things that were in Front Office's plans (Leino at center, the Roy-Vanek-Pominville line) were things that just didn't work, yet they kept trying over and over to force them to work.

What this says to me is that, where the Sabres season had a few bright spots here and there, they mostly happened in spite of Regier/Ruff's best laid plans. Not because of them.
This is a critically important point IMO

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04-12-2012, 10:40 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
Seems like all of the few positive developments on the Sabres' season were things that "weren't on their radar" and "caught them by surprise."

-Sulzer's play
-Ennis at center, when he was finally tried there
-Foligno, when they were finally forced to play him after emergency recall

Meanwhile, the things that were in Front Office's plans (Leino at center, the Roy-Vanek-Pominville line) were things that just didn't work, yet they kept trying over and over to force them to work.

What this says to me is that, where the Sabres season had a few bright spots here and there, they mostly happened in spite of Regier/Ruff's best laid plans. Not because of them.
That's a limited view of the situation. Admittedly, Leino was a bust, there's no devil's advocate to be found there. As far as the veterans, Vanek and Pommers had magnificent chemistry the first half of the year. Roy was disappointing this year, but after last season I don't blame them for keeping him around, particularly at his contract and at a position of weakness. Also, that line wasn't pushed too hard, except for a period of time towards the end when the other lines were playing really well.

Also, Sulzer was acquired by Regier, Ruff put Ennis at center, and Regier traded Kassian in one of the best trades made on deadline day (Regier getting a 1st for Goose was another one) in part because the organization realized what they had in Foligno. You can say that the results surprised them, but that doesn't preclude the credit they deserve for making the right moves in those situations.

I think, if anything, the successes you pointed out were more surprising to fans than the organization.

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04-12-2012, 10:44 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
Seems like all of the few positive developments on the Sabres' season were things that "weren't on their radar" and "caught them by surprise."

-Sulzer's play
-Ennis at center, when he was finally tried there
-Foligno, when they were finally forced to play him after emergency recall

Meanwhile, the things that were in Front Office's plans (Leino at center, the Roy-Vanek-Pominville line) were things that just didn't work, yet they kept trying over and over to force them to work.

What this says to me is that, where the Sabres season had a few bright spots here and there, they mostly happened in spite of Regier/Ruff's best laid plans. Not because of them.
What... really? Those are the only positives?

Ehrhoff? Regehr trade (even if you dont like Regehr)? Kassian<->Hodgson? Goose for a 1st?! Brayden McNabb?!?!

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04-12-2012, 10:54 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by volatile View Post
What... really? Those are the only positives?

Ehrhoff? Regehr trade (even if you dont like Regehr)? Kassian<->Hodgson? Goose for a 1st?! Brayden McNabb?!?!
OK, I was over-simplifying.

I do feel like the current regime spends too much time trying to force square pegs into round holes. And that they seem taken by surprise when injuries or other circumstances force them to try things that they seemingly never had any intention of trying, but that turn out to work.

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04-12-2012, 10:56 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
OK, I was over-simplifying.

I do feel like the current regime spends too much time trying to force square pegs into round holes. And that they seem taken by surprise when injuries or other circumstances force them to try things that they seemingly never had any intention of trying, but that turn out to work.
For Ennis, I could see that.

For Foligno? Absolutely not.
He wasn't expected to be ready yet by anyone. But they twice chose to call him up and that he played so well is not in spite of them.

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04-12-2012, 10:58 AM
  #156
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Welp, Ted Black did lead the penguins to 4 years at the bottom of the league
Well, if that's the goal, they failed miserably this year.

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04-12-2012, 10:59 AM
  #157
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i think the fact that they targetted Villed Leino and Brad Boyes as solutions to the center problem, and both turned out to be failures... while they had Ennis right under their noses and literally refused to try it... makes them look like idiots.

Ennis even got a sniff at center before the deadline... and had SUCCESS, only to be moved back to the wing when they acquired Hodgson.

These guys are just plain daft

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04-12-2012, 11:20 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i think the fact that they targetted Villed Leino and Brad Boyes as solutions to the center problem, and both turned out to be failures... while they had Ennis right under their noses and literally refused to try it... makes them look like idiots.

Ennis even got a sniff at center before the deadline... and had SUCCESS, only to be moved back to the wing when they acquired Hodgson.

These guys are just plain daft
Ennis also got sniffs at center before that and looked nothing like this.

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04-12-2012, 11:25 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by volatile View Post
Ennis also got sniffs at center before that and looked nothing like this.
When?

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04-12-2012, 11:48 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
When?
Sigh, trying to find, but it's extremely difficult. He never took faceoffs, only acted as pivot. Even then, it was never for more than a game or two.

Edit: AH! So at the end of 09-10, he took faceoffs for 3-4 games at the end of the season and was not very good.

BUT, I know he's played center a few other teams while not taking faceoffs.


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04-12-2012, 01:50 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
Seems like all of the few positive developments on the Sabres' season were things that "weren't on their radar" and "caught them by surprise."

-Sulzer's play
-Ennis at center, when he was finally tried there
-Foligno, when they were finally forced to play him after emergency recall

Meanwhile, the things that were in Front Office's plans (Leino at center, the Roy-Vanek-Pominville line) were things that just didn't work, yet they kept trying over and over to force them to work.

What this says to me is that, where the Sabres season had a few bright spots here and there, they mostly happened in spite of Regier/Ruff's best laid plans. Not because of them.
I see. So, when guys like Leino, Boyes, and Roy play well below everyone's expectations, it's bad management and coaching, and when guys like Ennis, Foligno and Sulzer play well above everyone's expectations, it's in spite of bad management and coaching. Thanks for clearing that up.

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04-12-2012, 04:59 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
OK, I was over-simplifying.

I do feel like the current regime spends too much time trying to force square pegs into round holes. And that they seem taken by surprise when injuries or other circumstances force them to try things that they seemingly never had any intention of trying, but that turn out to work.
Don't back down from your position so quickly May Day! There is a lot of truth to your original post about good things happening despite Ruff and Regier's "vision".

And for Heaven's sake! Can we please stop giving Darcy credit for the Ehrhoff signing! Ehrhoff is a universally acknowledged top D man. He was, by far, the highest rated D man (in anyone's mind) available via free agency last year. Darcy is just the guy who bought him. He doesn't get any credit whatsoever for identifying him as a top D man.

Is any NFL GM a genius for drafting Andrew Luck next year? Everyone and his brother knows that guy is good. The genius is the guy who drafted Thurman Thomas after 39 other picks passed him by.

It reminds me of when Darcy decided to lay all his eggs in Drury's basket, when quite obviously they should have been laid in Briere's. Darcy had the ability under that ownership to retain Briere (but not Drury too) and he did not. It went the other way around. He made the play for Drury, Drury thumbed his nose, and the guy to keep rolling forward (we now clearly know) was Briere, not Drury.

That single oversight should have cost him his job back then.

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04-12-2012, 05:02 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
C'mon, Jame - you have to realize the law of physics will make one of your wishes come true:

Pegula loves Regier. Regier and Pegula love Ruff. Roy apparently hates Ruff.

Who do you really think survives?



I wouldn't call it the care factor being lessened for me because it will always be part of being a fan - but my optimism and hope for next season certainly took a plunge upon reading the news.



What's puzzling is that if a failure next season is allowed to happen before he finally makes changes upstairs, what does he expect to happen in the 3rd year of his "win the Cup" window? Go from missing the playoffs to winning a championship? How often, if ever, has that happened?



Now, now, don't forget about all those injuries. When Humpty Dumpty was put back together, they went on a tear




Unless "successful" means a Cup win or at least a Finals appearance, I don't think the critics of either man will change their opinions and demand for replacements.



Very likely as they are now - giving Regier more slack but ready to kick Ruff to the curb.



Reminds me a little of the Quinn era.....sadly. At a minimum, I wanted Pegula and Black to take the past season seriously and re-evaluate EVERYTHING and EVERYONE.





If Ruff is safe, Roy is not. If he's still wearing a sweater by training camp, it means the Sabres are stuck with him because none of the other 29 teams want him either.



That's an exaggeration - Pegula said from the day he took over that he hates the spotlight and being a focus of attention by the media. He shies from doing interviews and when he does, he stays low-key and tries to shift focus onto the team instead. If he were so "distracted", he wouldn't have traveled with the team to Europe; attended nearly every home game in the first month of the season; traveled with the team again in January during the long road trip because he wanted to see how bad things were getting; or been a part of trade deadline meetings.

Painting him as an absentee owner or person disconnected from what's happening with the team is a huge stretch - Golisano was that.


Hmm. Are you related to Darcy or Lindy?



Schopp made a comical comparison to the movie, "What About Bob?", where the title character keeps showing up everytime they thought he went away.



It's bothersome primarily in the context of what happened earlier in the season, when Leino was complaining about playing center, a lack of power play time, and his performance for the year in general. He has the least amount of leash - and if Leino avoided reporters on locker cleanout day, it keeps sounding more and more like the Sabres swapped twins when they let Connolly walk only to bring Leino on board.
Just to clarify: you missed my point entirely. I was suggesting Pegula was distracted prior to selling his business and buying the Sabres, not that he is an absentee owner now or currently distracted. Far from it. The Sabres are clearly his pet project for retirement.

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04-12-2012, 05:05 PM
  #164
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And for Heaven's sake! Can we please stop giving Darcy credit for the Ehrhoff signing! Ehrhoff is a universally acknowledged top D man. He was, by far, the highest rated D man (in anyone's mind) available via free agency last year. Darcy is just the guy who bought him. He doesn't get any credit whatsoever for identifying him as a top D man.

It reminds me of when Darcy decided to lay all his eggs in Drury's basket, when quite obviously they should have been laid in Briere's. Darcy had the ability under that ownership to retain Briere (but not Drury too) and he did not. It went the other way around. He made the play for Drury, Drury thumbed his nose, and the guy to keep rolling forward (we now clearly know) was Briere, not Drury.
Darcy gets credit for trading for Ehrhoff's rights. Without that move, the chances of him signing here were likely pretty low. Frankly, I'm surprised that worked, but it did, and he gets credit.

I agree with you about Briere, but that topic has been beaten beyond death around here, and it was 6 years ago. I think he's made some strong moves since then.

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04-12-2012, 05:49 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Roymustgo View Post
And for Heaven's sake! Can we please stop giving Darcy credit for the Ehrhoff signing! Ehrhoff is a universally acknowledged top D man. He was, by far, the highest rated D man (in anyone's mind) available via free agency last year. Darcy is just the guy who bought him. He doesn't get any credit whatsoever for identifying him as a top D man.
Regier absolutely gets credit for acquiring the top-rated Dman, who was available on the open market, for an incredibly efficient cap hit. Seriously, how much is the maximum amount of credit one can award? Thats how much credit Regier gets for that one. It was a coup.

Hypothetically, if Ehrhoff had sucked, would Regier deserve blame? After all, Ehrhoff was the top rated Dman. If he doesn't get credit for signing Ehrhoff, does he not get blame for signing Leino? After all, he was the 2nd highest rated forward available.

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04-12-2012, 06:02 PM
  #166
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I may be over simplifying this but let me get this straight......Everything good that happened with this team was in spite of ruff and regier.....but everything bad is because of them?





Also stop judging regier now based on before the sale of the team....the situation is so night and day that's like saying don't hire a coach because a different team fired him....

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04-12-2012, 08:55 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by dire wolf View Post
Darcy gets credit for trading for Ehrhoff's rights. Without that move, the chances of him signing here were likely pretty low. Frankly, I'm surprised that worked, but it did, and he gets credit.
I always thought it was Pegula who was the brains behind going after Ehrhoff.


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04-12-2012, 09:00 PM
  #168
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****** the players....what did they do?
That was my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post


That's an exaggeration - Pegula said from the day he took over that he hates the spotlight and being a focus of attention by the media. He shies from doing interviews and when he does, he stays low-key and tries to shift focus onto the team instead. If he were so "distracted", he wouldn't have traveled with the team to Europe; attended nearly every home game in the first month of the season; traveled with the team again in January during the long road trip because he wanted to see how bad things were getting; or been a part of trade deadline meetings.
I'm mixed on this. I feel like he has no problem in soaking up with the spotlight when things are good and positive, but he all of the sudden goes into hiding when things are bad. Not necessarily so much in front of the media, but at least be visible--whether it's in the arena or events. I don't think he's a bad guy who doesn't care, I think quite of the opposite, but he just strikes a strange vibe with me that I haven't quite figured out yet.

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04-13-2012, 01:23 AM
  #169
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I always thought it was Pegula who was the brains behind going after Ehrhoff.
NO

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04-13-2012, 06:04 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
Seems like all of the few positive developments on the Sabres' season were things that "weren't on their radar" and "caught them by surprise."

-Sulzer's play
-Ennis at center, when he was finally tried there
-Foligno, when they were finally forced to play him after emergency recall

Meanwhile, the things that were in Front Office's plans (Leino at center, the Roy-Vanek-Pominville line) were things that just didn't work, yet they kept trying over and over to force them to work.

What this says to me is that, where the Sabres season had a few bright spots here and there, they mostly happened in spite of Regier/Ruff's best laid plans. Not because of them.
Standard anti-Regier commentary.

Makes a good move : It only happened because of someone else.
Makes a bad move : IT WAS ALL DARCY!!

Pretty transparent.

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04-13-2012, 06:21 AM
  #171
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To quote Ted Black: "I understand you are frustrated after 15 years, and I know many are still upset over what happened with Drury and Briere, but to be honest we don't care what happened back then, we care about what is happening now."

Black laid it out pretty clearly yesterday on the radio. Both darcy and lindy were given a clean slate when Pegula came in, and are being judged based on what they did starting that day. It also sounds like Ruff may be on a short leash right now as Black said that they DON'T give him credit for the teams turn around, they consider it due to all the injured players coming back....take it for what its worth...but if you havnt listened to the black segment from wgr yestarday I would take the time to do so....gives a lot of insight...

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04-13-2012, 09:23 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I guarantee that Pegula and Black are not evaluating Ruff and Regier except during the time that they've been in charge.

Fans are evaluating them from the start.

That's the disconnect.
You're right.

But what's been so great about Sabres hockey since February 22nd, 2011? They've been a .500 hockey club that's already missed the playoffs in Pegula's first full season as Sabres owner.

Since Terry Pegula finalized his purchase, there have been 106 Buffalo Sabres regular season games. They've only won 55 of them. That's barely over 50%.

51.8% to be exact.

That's about the same winning percentage that the Regier/Ruff regime has achieved going back 5 straight seasons.

.500 hockey. Not good enough to make the playoffs, and not bad enough to be rewarded with high draft picks, which have been essential to 5 of the last 6 Stanley Cup champions.

The Sabres have been stuck in neutral whether Terry's been here or not. Perhaps Pegula and Black need to adjust their evaluations.

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04-13-2012, 09:42 AM
  #173
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You're right.

But what's been so great about Sabres hockey since February 22nd, 2011? They've been a .500 hockey club that's already missed the playoffs in Pegula's first full season as Sabres owner.

Since Terry Pegula finalized his purchase, there have been 106 Buffalo Sabres regular season games. They've only won 55 of them. That's barely over 50%.

51.8% to be exact.

That's about the same winning percentage that the Regier/Ruff regime has achieved going back 5 straight seasons.

.500 hockey. Not good enough to make the playoffs, and not bad enough to be rewarded with high draft picks, which have been essential to 5 of the last 6 Stanley Cup champions.

The Sabres have been stuck in neutral whether Terry's been here or not. Perhaps Pegula and Black need to adjust their evaluations.
Well said. Yet Ted and many (most?) fans will still say the franchise is better off than it was before Terry bought it. The real disconnect is between the hypothetical correctness of what they've done and the real-world results.

The franchise is better off because it's owned by someone who's willing to spend outrageous amounts of money to try and buy a Cup? How is that any different than all those franchises Sabres fans used to torment (the Rangers come immediately to mind) for doing the same thing, with no results?

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04-13-2012, 09:45 AM
  #174
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Sorry if this has been talked about. I didn't read every post.

Since Ted said "I" didn't think a change in coach/GM was needed, who actually made the decision? Ted likes to say they collaborate on all decisions, so I would have expected a "we."

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04-13-2012, 10:04 AM
  #175
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Well said. Yet Ted and many (most?) fans will still say the franchise is better off than it was before Terry bought it.
In the last two years, we've gone from 3rd seed (division title), to 7th seed, to 9th seed.

I understand Pegula and Black only wanting to look at recent history and not the past 15 years, but how can they possibly look at the last two years and conclude that this team is on a good trajectory?

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