Hmm, so he hasn't tried to land anyone the last few off seasons? Weird, I remember reading something each year about offers he made to free agents. Maybe I am on a different time line like Fringe or you have "short memories". For you to even guess at Snow's activity is downright arrogant. You have NO idea what he is doing behind closed doors. Activity does not always = output. You can't FORCE trades and you can't FORCE someone to sign who doesn't want to. When will you stop thinking this is like shopping at Walmart???
Hmm.....so he TRIES?
How about my simple, easy to read counter:
Anyone who CAN get things done would be better. A majority of GM's do more.
He made "overtures" to Kovalchuk. He made a trade for rights to Erhoff. He fell asleep after day three and waited til the end of summer to spend $12M on Boston's finest. I don't care what he HOPED to do.
He got nothing done.
Nothing.
The question I will ask you....TWO questions:
1. Is there better out there than Garf Garf?
2. Would you be opposed to replacing him with someone better?
Hmm, so he hasn't tried to land anyone the last few off seasons? Weird, I remember reading something each year about offers he made to free agents. Maybe I am on a different time line like Fringe or you have "short memories". For you to even guess at Snow's activity is downright arrogant. You have NO idea what he is doing behind closed doors. Activity does not always = output. You can't FORCE trades and you can't FORCE someone to sign who doesn't want to. When will you stop thinking this is like shopping at Walmart???
The knowledgeable fan knows that trying means nothing. Any moron can try, trying means nothing if you do not succeed. This is not 4th grade soccer, you do not receive a medal for finishing last (maybe on a HF when prospects = success). The team has been in last place or close to it for 5 years under Snow, there is no excuse. Wang is a terrible owner but Snow is also an awful GM. Amazingly to some it is impossible to have both ???
Hmm, so he hasn't tried to land anyone the last few off seasons? Weird, I remember reading something each year about offers he made to free agents. Maybe I am on a different time line like Fringe or you have "short memories".
Huh? I wrote:
The fact is he has been the least active GM in the league in terms of trades over the past 6 years AINEC."
Yet you come back swinging about hiring UFAs? Try to pay closer attention this time Leap, and not do something so cheap and beneath you as to try and switch the topic to making offers to UFAs. I mean, you get your argument so fundamentally wrong right off the bat you make this a gimme for me.
Quote:
For you to even guess at Snow's activity is downright arrogant. You have NO idea what he is doing behind closed doors. Activity does not always = output. You can't FORCE trades and you can't FORCE someone to sign who doesn't want to. When will you stop thinking this is like shopping at Walmart???
The only thing like Walmart about this is your reply as the topic is in Isle One but your answer is on Isle Two. "Thinking people" can pretty much see right through this organization's cheap-o game plan. I give Snow some props for certain aspects of drafting and dumpster diving, but if you are trying to sell the fan base on his being even remotely competent on the trade front, well sorry. I am all out of coupons for BS today so I am not buying any.
- Garth needed to trade for a defenseman two years ago.
- We have enough assets and picks now to effect a trade yet...
- He has failed to do this, to date.
- No excuse or insult you fabricate can change those facts.
Sure, you don't possess the ability to see the forest from the trees on this one, and no doubt you derive comfort in believing he is simply doing the best that anyone could do given the circumstances, but the rest of us see things clearly.
Just take a look at Garf's own words sport. He declared before the lottery that this summer will end with no significant moves, meaning, he won't be exploring any trades which would involve a top 4 defenseman which would result in several significant assets going the other way (like Kyle and our first rounder). Now ask yourself this, why would the GM of a hockey club stick a giant ginzu blade deep in the heart of Islander fan's hopes, in the heart of the immediate future of this club including the furthering of many of the kid's development, many months before the start of the season? Answer that question honestly, and you will gain a whole new understanding of what he is doing.
The fact is he has been the least active GM in the league in terms of trades over the past 6 years AINEC."
Yet you come back swinging about hiring UFAs? Try to pay closer attention this time Leap, and not do something so cheap and beneath you as to try and switch the topic to making offers to UFAs. I mean, you get your argument so fundamentally wrong right off the bat you make this a gimme for me.
The only thing like Walmart about this is your reply as the topic is in Isle One but your answer is on Isle Two. "Thinking people" can pretty much see right through this organization's cheap-o game plan. I give Snow some props for certain aspects of drafting and dumpster diving, but if you are trying to sell the fan base on his being even remotely competent on the trade front, well sorry. I am all out of coupons for BS today so I am not buying any.
- Garth needed to trade for a defenseman two years ago.
- We have enough assets and picks now to effect a trade yet...
- He has failed to do this, to date.
- No excuse or insult you fabricate can change those facts.
Sure, you don't possess the ability to see the forest from the trees on this one, and no doubt you derive comfort in believing he is simply doing the best that anyone could do given the circumstances, but the rest of us see things clearly.
Just take a look at Garf's own words sport. He declared before the lottery that this summer will end with no significant moves, meaning, he won't be exploring any trades which would involve a top 4 defenseman which would result in several significant assets going the other way (like Kyle and our first rounder). Now ask yourself this, why would the GM of a hockey club stick a giant ginzu blade deep in the heart of Islander fan's hopes, in the heart of the immediate future of this club including the furthering of many of the kid's development, many months before the start of the season? Answer that question honestly, and you will gain a whole new understanding of what he is doing.
The difference is that Burke S U C K S as GM for Toronto. He's been given a blank check and still couldn't get his team into PO's. Snow hasn't done any better, but he got the same results with a much, much smaller sized check.
From the outside looking in, this is the way folks prolly gotta see it.
The whole hockey world knows that the Islanders aren't a serious outfit and anyone halfway in the know realizes that until a building is in site, ain't nothing positive gonna be happening on Long Island unless the kiddies make it happen somehow.
In light of this, a lot of fans out there actually like what they're seeing from the Isles. They like how Tavares and Hamonic and Martin are coming along. They like seeing two AHLers put up first line numbers when given the chance. They like seeing nobodies like MacDonald and Nielsen turning into seriously taken NHL hockey players. They like seeing a guy like Nabokov not only resurrect his career, but then also resign.
There are plenty of folks out there thinking the Isles are at least losing in an understandable manner. And heck, it might as well be on a low budget, right?
In addition, the title of this thread be darned, the possibilities made viable by the Toronto market and its meaning amongst a great many players around the league should make it nearly impossible to miss out on the playoffs, or at least to do so without finishing say a close 9th or 10th. And sure, if you miss out once or twice, that should be disappointing, but the way things have been going for a consistant rate of years, you'd think a certain someone there broke a whole lot of mirrors when coming into the organization.
I know some may feel this sounds a bit silly, but I often wonder if Toronto wouldn't be better served actively targeting players from (southern) Ontario. I mean, heck, it's a hockey hotbed and there are a plethora of very good players from that area. It would not only create continued identification with the team, but would also make the Leafs an even greater destination amongst the youth in the area.
Maybe I'm just way off on that. A good hockey player is a good hockey player, right? Basta.
But I really gotta wonder what everyone thinks about a continual non-playoff team whose key players are from various US states and places like Belarus. At the moment, Kadri is like the only player on the team site's roster who is born and bread in Ontario. That's just like WOW!
Even amongst their prospects, I only see Broll, McKegg, Blacker and Percy as being viable future NHLers from Ontario.
Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 04-12-2012 at 08:03 PM.
i see it as a progression, if they ice a younger team, and accumulate the same amount of points. if, in 3 years, this team is still below .500, then i would see that as a failure.
3 years? You're actually being pretty lenient in your expectations there.
I think under the circumstances, Snow is doing the best job possible.
Well, not the best job possible. Despite shackles, he's shown himself as being rather poor when it comes to pure asset management. He's shown no particular talent in flipping one asset into another. As a team that does little on the UFA market, he's made extremely minimal use of the waiver wire (since Grabner) and the trade deadline, despite going 4 straight years without playoffs. A number of UFAs have walked and not been adequately replaced, from within or from the outside. He's not even dealt them in some respect at the trade deadline although everyone can clearly assume that he knew he wouldn't be planning with them for the future.
In addition, there have been a lot of little things that fans tend to overlook. He's let us be robbed of guys like Thompson and Wallace, while then forcefeeding top prospects to the wolves and watching them stagnate in the process.
I know many didn't care for him, but investing YEARS of development in Comeau only to place him on waivers after a 46 point season is just about worthy of the classification SENILE!
Quote:
What do you think of the Islanders propect pool? Poor drafting? Bridgeport is becoming a juggernaut and they're going to have Nelson for a full season next year, Kabanov, possibly Petrov and Ryan Strome is just around the corner.
Juggernaut is a bit hefty here. Let's see if the boys can even get past the first round this spring.
As for drafting, it's something the franchise has done overly well, particularly from rounds 3-7 (with the exception of 2010), in Snow's time. However, it's how these kids are managed and bread that needs to be looked at crucially and critically.
Tavares is the one kid who is thriving despite everything. He was the one super talent the team has acquired.
Martin and Hamonic have done real well for themselves and have the mindset to survive and grow despite everything.
Bailey could still come through.
What happened with Niederreiter this season was one of the sickest cases of mismanagement I've seen in a while.
Well, not the best job possible. Despite shackles, he's shown himself as being rather poor when it comes to pure asset management. He's shown no particular talent in flipping one asset into another. As a team that does little on the UFA market, he's made extremely minimal use of the waiver wire (since Grabner) and the trade deadline, despite going 4 straight years without playoffs. A number of UFAs have walked and not been adequately replaced, from within or from the outside. He's not even dealt them in some respect at the trade deadline although everyone can clearly assume that he knew he wouldn't be planning with them for the future.
In addition, there have been a lot of little things that fans tend to overlook. He's let us be robbed of guys like Thompson and Wallace, while then forcefeeding top prospects to the wolves and watching them stagnate in the process.
I know many didn't care for him, but investing YEARS of development in Comeau only to place him on waivers after a 46 point season is just about worthy of the classification SENILE!
Juggernaut is a bit hefty here. Let's see if the boys can even get past the first round this spring.
As for drafting, it's something the franchise has done overly well, particularly from rounds 3-7 (with the exception of 2010), in Snow's time. However, it's how these kids are managed and bread that needs to be looked at crucially and critically.
Tavares is the one kid who is thriving despite everything. He was the one super talent the team has acquired.
Martin and Hamonic have done real well for themselves and have the mindset to survive and grow despite everything.
Bailey could still come through.
What happened with Niederreiter this season was one of the sickest cases of mismanagement I've seen in a while.
We'll have to see what happens with the rest.
well stated Chapin...this is your "A" game post...you're in playoff mode, even though the team isn't
well stated Chapin...this is your "A" game post...you're in playoff mode, even though the team isn't
i agree. chapin, good job of being objective.
Snow is at least trying. good enough for me. for those that think that trying is not good enough, i hope you are not raising kids...
to those that think that they are 'knowledgeable fans', show me. show me newspaper articles/videos that clearly prove that wang and snow do not care. show me that they've tried to sign decent players for a decent price, but really didn't want them. show me that wang really didn't want a new arena. show me that our prospects aren't going to pan out. show me that they run the organization poorly, because they want to punish fans. show me that players that would be valuable assets want to play for the Isles, and they were not signed. show me that doing 'something' is always better than 'doing nothing' (in reality, giving your prospects the time and space to develop, is something. i can see the reply to this, lol "they ruined Bailey, Okposo, Niederieter", but it's not true). show me how other GM's are laughing at snow, because he's 'horrible'.
show me, and i will agree with you.
i really want to be a knowledgeable fan like you guys...
EXACTLY!!! Many of you are missing the point of this thread...it is not about who doesnt have money to spend or the cap ceiling/floor...it is about one GM who admits failure and apologizes to his fan base and says playing half a season is no longer acceptable and another GM who is perfectly content with failure and plans to do nothing to change his loser team in to a winner.
Thank you. i agree with you. islander fans are so determined to trash on everyone else because of our own ineptitude. instead of screaming out against what wang and snow have done to this team, islander fans prefer to trash on burke [who by the way has won a stanley cup as general manager of a team] islander fans refuse to admit that snow is in over his head in his position and even with the ability to spend money to the cap max would still be horrible at what he does.
explain to me how the predators, coyotes who are in similar situation with the islanders financially have been able to build contenders while the islanders continue to hold their annual draft lottery cup?
Well, not the best job possible. Despite shackles, he's shown himself as being rather poor when it comes to pure asset management. He's shown no particular talent in flipping one asset into another. As a team that does little on the UFA market, he's made extremely minimal use of the waiver wire (since Grabner) and the trade deadline, despite going 4 straight years without playoffs. A number of UFAs have walked and not been adequately replaced, from within or from the outside. He's not even dealt them in some respect at the trade deadline although everyone can clearly assume that he knew he wouldn't be planning with them for the future.
In addition, there have been a lot of little things that fans tend to overlook. He's let us be robbed of guys like Thompson and Wallace, while then forcefeeding top prospects to the wolves and watching them stagnate in the process.
I know many didn't care for him, but investing YEARS of development in Comeau only to place him on waivers after a 46 point season is just about worthy of the classification SENILE!
Juggernaut is a bit hefty here. Let's see if the boys can even get past the first round this spring.
As for drafting, it's something the franchise has done overly well, particularly from rounds 3-7 (with the exception of 2010), in Snow's time. However, it's how these kids are managed and bread that needs to be looked at crucially and critically.
Tavares is the one kid who is thriving despite everything. He was the one super talent the team has acquired.
Martin and Hamonic have done real well for themselves and have the mindset to survive and grow despite everything.
Bailey could still come through.
What happened with Niederreiter this season was one of the sickest cases of mismanagement I've seen in a while.
We'll have to see what happens with the rest.
While I agree 100%, Comeau should have been demoted to the fourth line and Nino should have been returned to Portland. Comeau's offense came from himself and would have done okay playing with Reasoner and Pandolfo because he could do his thing and dangle. That was the best thing to do and then try to sell him off for an asset at the deadline. Whether he had no future or not here, that would have been the best thing for this team.
I love the people in here that stare at the lack of significant trades and try to use that negative to state he is trying to do something, then brow beat people using the actual lack of results as their basis for deriving an answer to the Garth Snow question. Two years is just not enough time to make one critical trade apparently.
Yet we don't know what we are talking about. How about some of those geniuses supply us with some trades that almost happened but didn't to defend Garth?
Oh yeah, they can't because there is nothing to go on but "faith in the invisible." I sure hope they don't have any kids...
Long time Isles fan from western Canada. Have been casually reading these boards for a couple years now and have finally taken the plunge. Just wanted to add my opinion on this subject.
I am not hear to evaluate what kind of job Snow has done, but rather suggest that you refocus on what the opening post was shedding light to. In no way am I a Brian Burke fan, but I do respect his emphasis and commitment to the most important detail of his job....WINNING. Yes, Garth has several restrictions on what he can and cannot do... but for me he has a major flaw that has helped facilitate a losing culture within this organization.
It has been 5 straight lottery seasons on the Island....5!! To this point I have not seen one shred of accountability for the inferior product on the ice. What I have seen is inflated optimism and countless excuses as to why this team has not progressed. Does anyone find it strange how Garth is still so buddy-buddy with Charles throughout this entire ordeal? Where is that inate push to get better.....to challenge everyone around you to get better?
Ask yourselves this.....if Mr. Torrey were to accept this job with the exact same circumstances, do you really think he would be seeing eye to eye with Wang after the first year.....let alone the fifth?!! Unquestionably Torrey would show that inner drive to find ways to win.....he would challenge the process! He would be making benchmarks, not excuses. With Garth, I do not see this passion, only an attempt to stay in favor with the source of his paycheck.
Undoubtedly Garth has his strengths, but in the long run a mandate to win is essential for any type of success. Make all the good draft picks/waiver wire steals/good contracts you want....if you are just going to bring those elements to a country club atmosphere, this team will go nowhere.
Long time Isles fan from western Canada. Have been casually reading these boards for a couple years now and have finally taken the plunge. Just wanted to add my opinion on this subject.
I am not hear to evaluate what kind of job Snow has done, but rather suggest that you refocus on what the opening post was shedding light to. In no way am I a Brian Burke fan, but I do respect his emphasis and commitment to the most important detail of his job....WINNING. Yes, Garth has several restrictions on what he can and cannot do... but for me he has a major flaw that has helped facilitate a losing culture within this organization.
It has been 5 straight lottery seasons on the Island....5!! To this point I have not seen one shred of accountability for the inferior product on the ice. What I have seen is inflated optimism and countless excuses as to why this team has not progressed. Does anyone find it strange how Garth is still so buddy-buddy with Charles throughout this entire ordeal? Where is that inate push to get better.....to challenge everyone around you to get better?
Ask yourselves this.....if Mr. Torrey were to accept this job with the exact same circumstances, do you really think he would be seeing eye to eye with Wang after the first year.....let alone the fifth?!! Unquestionably Torrey would show that inner drive to find ways to win.....he would challenge the process! He would be making benchmarks, not excuses. With Garth, I do not see this passion, only an attempt to stay in favor with the source of his paycheck.
Undoubtedly Garth has his strengths, but in the long run a mandate to win is essential for any type of success. Make all the good draft picks/waiver wire steals/good contracts you want....if you are just going to bring those elements to a country club atmosphere, this team will go nowhere.
I love Mr. Torrey, but he was the GM when both LaFontaine and Trottier both got screwed by Pickett. Amazing how horrible hockey decisions are made when the team is losing money hand over fist.
Long time Isles fan from western Canada. Have been casually reading these boards for a couple years now and have finally taken the plunge. Just wanted to add my opinion on this subject.
I am not hear to evaluate what kind of job Snow has done, but rather suggest that you refocus on what the opening post was shedding light to. In no way am I a Brian Burke fan, but I do respect his emphasis and commitment to the most important detail of his job....WINNING. Yes, Garth has several restrictions on what he can and cannot do... but for me he has a major flaw that has helped facilitate a losing culture within this organization.
It has been 5 straight lottery seasons on the Island....5!! To this point I have not seen one shred of accountability for the inferior product on the ice. What I have seen is inflated optimism and countless excuses as to why this team has not progressed. Does anyone find it strange how Garth is still so buddy-buddy with Charles throughout this entire ordeal? Where is that inate push to get better.....to challenge everyone around you to get better?
Ask yourselves this.....if Mr. Torrey were to accept this job with the exact same circumstances, do you really think he would be seeing eye to eye with Wang after the first year.....let alone the fifth?!! Unquestionably Torrey would show that inner drive to find ways to win.....he would challenge the process! He would be making benchmarks, not excuses. With Garth, I do not see this passion, only an attempt to stay in favor with the source of his paycheck.
Undoubtedly Garth has his strengths, but in the long run a mandate to win is essential for any type of success. Make all the good draft picks/waiver wire steals/good contracts you want....if you are just going to bring those elements to a country club atmosphere, this team will go nowhere.
That was the most coherent, well thought out, knowledgeable first post ever added to these boards. You went from 'noob' to 'vet' in one post. Well done sir. Welcome.
Long time Isles fan from western Canada. Have been casually reading these boards for a couple years now and have finally taken the plunge. Just wanted to add my opinion on this subject.
I am not hear to evaluate what kind of job Snow has done, but rather suggest that you refocus on what the opening post was shedding light to. In no way am I a Brian Burke fan, but I do respect his emphasis and commitment to the most important detail of his job....WINNING. Yes, Garth has several restrictions on what he can and cannot do... but for me he has a major flaw that has helped facilitate a losing culture within this organization.
It has been 5 straight lottery seasons on the Island....5!! To this point I have not seen one shred of accountability for the inferior product on the ice. What I have seen is inflated optimism and countless excuses as to why this team has not progressed. Does anyone find it strange how Garth is still so buddy-buddy with Charles throughout this entire ordeal? Where is that inate push to get better.....to challenge everyone around you to get better?
Ask yourselves this.....if Mr. Torrey were to accept this job with the exact same circumstances, do you really think he would be seeing eye to eye with Wang after the first year.....let alone the fifth?!! Unquestionably Torrey would show that inner drive to find ways to win.....he would challenge the process! He would be making benchmarks, not excuses. With Garth, I do not see this passion, only an attempt to stay in favor with the source of his paycheck.
Undoubtedly Garth has his strengths, but in the long run a mandate to win is essential for any type of success. Make all the good draft picks/waiver wire steals/good contracts you want....if you are just going to bring those elements to a country club atmosphere, this team will go nowhere.
nice post. welcome to disneyland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rikker
i agree. chapin, good job of being objective.
Snow is at least trying. good enough for me. for those that think that trying is not good enough, i hope you are not raising kids...
to those that think that they are 'knowledgeable fans', show me. show me newspaper articles/videos that clearly prove that wang and snow do not care. show me that they've tried to sign decent players for a decent price, but really didn't want them. show me that wang really didn't want a new arena. show me that our prospects aren't going to pan out. show me that they run the organization poorly, because they want to punish fans. show me that players that would be valuable assets want to play for the Isles, and they were not signed. show me that doing 'something' is always better than 'doing nothing' (in reality, giving your prospects the time and space to develop, is something. i can see the reply to this, lol "they ruined Bailey, Okposo, Niederieter", but it's not true). show me how other GM's are laughing at snow, because he's 'horrible'.
show me, and i will agree with you.
i really want to be a knowledgeable fan like you guys...
I'll show you a team who's been bottom five for five straight years. Only Snow and Wang have been able to give new meaning to "Drive for Five" in a hockey market that first defined that phrase under drastically different circumstances.
The onus is on THEM to show that they DO CARE about winning.
And frankly, whether they care or not matters little. Do we evaluate them on their DESIRED OUTCOME? or their ACTUAL OUTCOME?
"I tried really hard not to fail that test...but can I still be a doctor?" - on Long Island, the answer is "Sure you can. As long as you tried"
If my daughter wants to be a doctor and she sucks at math, science I have a choice as a parent. 1) get her a tutor 2) get her to change careers fast. On Long Island we get "well, it's not like she's getting Fs" and "She's got a plan and she's sticking to it" and the rest of the family talking about the circumstances around her failure, like "she was dropped a lot as a baby" --- this is our New York Islanders.
We don't need media to point and laugh to see the pure failure that the standings show every year. And if you'd like to dig-up articles that point to how much of a joke this franchise is, I'm sure Mrs Google can provide that in a few milliseconds...I don't care to re-post them here. BUT, HERE'S ONE ANYWAY.
That was the most coherent, well thought out, knowledgeable first post ever added to these boards. You went from 'noob' to 'vet' in one post. Well done sir. Welcome.
Haha, thank you....I wouldn't be so quick to call me a vet as I accidently posted that in the wrong thread at first!
I'll show you a team who's been bottom five for five straight years. Only Snow and Wang have been able to give new meaning to "Drive for Five" in a hockey market that first defined that phrase under drastically different circumstances.
The onus is on THEM to show that they DO CARE about winning.
And frankly, whether they care or not matters little. Do we evaluate them on their DESIRED OUTCOME? or their ACTUAL OUTCOME?
"I tried really hard not to fail that test...but can I still be a doctor?" - on Long Island, the answer is "Sure you can. As long as you tried"
If my daughter wants to be a doctor and she sucks at math, science I have a choice as a parent. 1) get her a tutor 2) get her to change careers fast. On Long Island we get "well, it's not like she's getting Fs" and "She's got a plan and she's sticking to it" and the rest of the family talking about the circumstances around her failure, like "she was dropped a lot as a baby" --- this is our New York Islanders.
We don't need media to point and laugh to see the pure failure that the standings show every year. And if you'd like to dig-up articles that point to how much of a joke this franchise is, I'm sure Mrs Google can provide that in a few milliseconds...I don't care to re-post them here. BUT, HERE'S ONE ANYWAY.
It's beyond shameful.
you still didn't show me... ask any of your lawyer friends how credible opinion is, in a court of law.
In light of this, a lot of fans out there actually like what they're seeing from the Isles. They like how Tavares and Hamonic and Martin are coming along. They like seeing two AHLers put up first line numbers when given the chance. They like seeing nobodies like MacDonald and Nielsen turning into seriously taken NHL hockey players. They like seeing a guy like Nabokov not only resurrect his career, but then also resign.
Wha-wha-what-WHAT?
Two AHLers?
Moulson played 3 seasons in the AHL, 70 games, 57 & 54 games in the next. In 2 of those 3 seasons he got a total of 29 games NHL experience. I don't think that constitutes AHL guy, making like he was an old AHL-4lifer before we plucked him out of obscurity.
PA on the other hand did have 2 NHL teams (in two separate, non sequential seasons) and most of 7-8 seasons from 03-04 to 09-10 were in the AHL. But he is scoring and did set up guys on two or three different line combos that didnt have JT on any of them. That is not a fluke. 33 then 49 assists from one season to the next one is something to be commended on. More to your point, these are not point totals that you can get with any guy that the Isles (or any other NHL team)plucks from the AHL and puts him with JT OR any other guy on an NHL roster.
To say that they are two AHL guys is just a way to downplay what Snow AND the Isles organization has done.
Nielsen a nobody? Is it because he was a 3rd round guy or it took 5 seasons for him to come over? I really don't know where you got that.
MacDonald was a lower rated guy before he was drafted and does that make him a nobody? When Hamonic was out, in a game Mac was blocking shots and steeping up his game.But they are both nobodies?
Why is it when other teams get guys from out of no where it is commended. When the Isles do it, even parts of there own fanbase seem to downplay how far these players have come and developed. Somehow them being "a nobody" years ago still means something, because they are Islanders.....and it was luck?!?!? I really don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt
I know some may feel this sounds a bit silly, but I often wonder if Toronto wouldn't be better served actively targeting players from (southern) Ontario. I mean, heck, it's a hockey hotbed and there are plethora of very good players from that area. It not only would create continued identification with the team, but would make the Leafs an even greater goal amongst the youth in the area.
It seems to me that players dont want to play there because, they havent won in a long time like us! Somehow all of that is forgotten because its Toronto! and its an Original Six team! and its a big city! I don't think that players from Toronto (Southern or Northern) care to play there like they should have some allegiance to the home team!Players that grew up on LI dont care, but because Toronto is a "hockey hotbed" then it makes Toronto suddenly different than LI because more fans show up?? 45 years and no cup.....damn in 9 years they'll be in Rags territory.
Long time Isles fan from western Canada. Have been casually reading these boards for a couple years now and have finally taken the plunge. Just wanted to add my opinion on this subject.
I am not hear to evaluate what kind of job Snow has done, but rather suggest that you refocus on what the opening post was shedding light to. In no way am I a Brian Burke fan, but I do respect his emphasis and commitment to the most important detail of his job....WINNING. Yes, Garth has several restrictions on what he can and cannot do... but for me he has a major flaw that has helped facilitate a losing culture within this organization.
It has been 5 straight lottery seasons on the Island....5!! To this point I have not seen one shred of accountability for the inferior product on the ice. What I have seen is inflated optimism and countless excuses as to why this team has not progressed. Does anyone find it strange how Garth is still so buddy-buddy with Charles throughout this entire ordeal? Where is that inate push to get better.....to challenge everyone around you to get better?
Ask yourselves this.....if Mr. Torrey were to accept this job with the exact same circumstances, do you really think he would be seeing eye to eye with Wang after the first year.....let alone the fifth?!! Unquestionably Torrey would show that inner drive to find ways to win.....he would challenge the process! He would be making benchmarks, not excuses. With Garth, I do not see this passion, only an attempt to stay in favor with the source of his paycheck.
Undoubtedly Garth has his strengths, but in the long run a mandate to win is essential for any type of success. Make all the good draft picks/waiver wire steals/good contracts you want....if you are just going to bring those elements to a country club atmosphere, this team will go nowhere.
Long time Isles fan from western Canada. Have been casually reading these boards for a couple years now and have finally taken the plunge. Just wanted to add my opinion on this subject.
I am not hear to evaluate what kind of job Snow has done, but rather suggest that you refocus on what the opening post was shedding light to. In no way am I a Brian Burke fan, but I do respect his emphasis and commitment to the most important detail of his job....WINNING. Yes, Garth has several restrictions on what he can and cannot do... but for me he has a major flaw that has helped facilitate a losing culture within this organization.
It has been 5 straight lottery seasons on the Island....5!! To this point I have not seen one shred of accountability for the inferior product on the ice. What I have seen is inflated optimism and countless excuses as to why this team has not progressed. Does anyone find it strange how Garth is still so buddy-buddy with Charles throughout this entire ordeal? Where is that inate push to get better.....to challenge everyone around you to get better?
Ask yourselves this.....if Mr. Torrey were to accept this job with the exact same circumstances, do you really think he would be seeing eye to eye with Wang after the first year.....let alone the fifth?!! Unquestionably Torrey would show that inner drive to find ways to win.....he would challenge the process! He would be making benchmarks, not excuses. With Garth, I do not see this passion, only an attempt to stay in favor with the source of his paycheck.
Undoubtedly Garth has his strengths, but in the long run a mandate to win is essential for any type of success. Make all the good draft picks/waiver wire steals/good contracts you want....if you are just going to bring those elements to a country club atmosphere, this team will go nowhere.
At the risk of jumping on a first post, I think folks are getting a little bamboozled here. Burke is a commanding guy with alot of media savvy. He's leveraging that skillset through his presser to gain some oxygen from the rabid hounds in Toronto. It's public relations. How this equates to 'accountability' or 'emphasis and commitment to winning' is not clear to me. Did he say he would resign if the Loafs don't make the POs next year? I'd be impressed by that!
Garth as we know has the personality of a wet noodle and less tact that my grandmother. The less that comes out of his cryptkeeper mug, the better. To the extent that public relations is a part of sports, that's a problem. But shouldn't all this pale in signficance to what actual moves that both GMs make, based on the resources available?
At the risk of jumping on a first post, I think folks are getting a little bamboozled here. Burke is a commanding guy with alot of media savvy. He's leveraging that skillset through his presser to gain some oxygen from the rabid hounds in Toronto. It's public relations. How this equates to 'accountability' or 'emphasis and commitment to winning' is not clear to me. Did he say he would resign if the Loafs don't make the POs next year? I'd be impressed by that!
Garth as we know has the personality of a wet noodle and less tact that my grandmother. The less that comes out of his cryptkeeper mug, the better. To the extent that public relations is a part of sports, that's a problem. But shouldn't all this pale in signficance to what actual moves that both GMs make, based on the resources available?
Very good points.
I agree that Burke is commanding and at most times outspoken, but I firmly believe he is legitamately passionate about attaining results. I haven't seen this from Snow at all..... what we were told instead was "we had wins against Detroit and Pitts? which tells me we can compete with anyone". I am sorry, but that quote might be the saddest thing I have heard in quite some time. Even if he has a personality of a wet noodle, comments like that scream content and satisfied. What message does that send to a young Josh Bailey or Kyle Okposo? That a couple good outings here and there is all that is expected??
I acknowledge that both Burke and Snow's situations are extremely different but I would betmy bottom dollar that Burke would label our season the same way he did in T.O. .....a failure. I do not support Burke, but I garauntee that him and Wang would last a month tops together. Why? Priorities. We all know what Wang's preference is, shouldnt we all be hoping for a GM that will push the opposite way?
You also can't overlook the fact that Burke also has no one to hold him accountable right now. With the sale from Teachers to Rogers/Bell ongoing, the current owner won't fire him and the incoming owner has no say or influence yet.
Regardless, the Toronto media has been tearing him apart basically saying in four years he's done nothing and has no core to build around. We at least have a decent core to build around.
Burke also doesn't have a strategy. He says in Dec. that he's behind the coach, then he cans the coach and his new coach says the bodies aren't big enough so now Burke says they need to get bigger so they can play with more truculence. Uh, hello? Burke was the guy getting all those soft players (Kessel, Komi, Phaneuf).
Toronto is a mess. The apology was a publicity stunt because Burke likes to be liked by the media. He's terrible. I'll take Snow and his plan 10 times out of 10 over Burke and his antics and bluster and impatience (again, Kessel is a prime example).
Toronto is behind us in terms of progress and has a longer non-playoff streak than we do and has all the money in the world.
You also can't overlook the fact that Burke also has no one to hold him accountable right now. With the sale from Teachers to Rogers/Bell ongoing, the current owner won't fire him and the incoming owner has no say or influence yet.
Regardless, the Toronto media has been tearing him apart basically saying in four years he's done nothing and has no core to build around. We at least have a decent core to build around.
Burke also doesn't have a strategy. He says in Dec. that he's behind the coach, then he cans the coach and his new coach says the bodies aren't big enough so now Burke says they need to get bigger so they can play with more truculence. Uh, hello? Burke was the guy getting all those soft players (Kessel, Komi, Phaneuf).
Toronto is a mess. The apology was a publicity stunt because Burke likes to be liked by the media. He's terrible. I'll take Snow and his plan 10 times out of 10 over Burke and his antics and bluster and impatience (again, Kessel is a prime example).
Toronto is behind us in terms of progress and has a longer non-playoff streak than we do and has all the money in the world.
I'll keep Snow thank you very much.
I am a little confused about something...you as well as other posters continue to keep bringing up Kessel in a negative light, yet last time I checked the guy was in the TOP SIX in the NHL in scoring this season. Yes, Burke might have given up a bit too much to get him, but you make it sound like the guy is Marty Reasoner or Jay Pandolfo...he was one of the premier offensive players in the league this season. I wish Garth Snow would possibly give up a LITTLE too much to get one of the top scorers or d-men in the league.
