You're asking for the result? ... You don't get definitive answers with prospects.
Do you want to know the difference though?
Calgary has burned it's draft picks to the ground, while Ottawa didn't. So in theory, Ottawa has/had prospects to be mentored under Alfredsson while Calgary didn't/doesn't.
Cal =1st x 8, 2nd x 3
2013: 1st, X
2012: 1st, X
2011: 1st, 2nd, 2nd
2010: X, X
2009: X, X
2008: 1st, 2nd
2007: 1st, X
2006: 1st, X
2005: 1st, X
2004: 1st, X
Ott = 1st x 11, 2nd x 7
2013: 1st, 2nd
2012: 1st, X
2011: 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd
2010: X, X
2009: 1st, 2nd, 2nd
2008: 1st, 2nd
2007: 1st, 2nd
2006: 1st, X
2005: 1st, X
2004: 1st, 2nd
Specific Trades of Note:
- Ottawa dealt that 2010-1st (Rundblad) & 2012-2nd for 22yo Kyle Turris.
- Calgary had previously traded it's 2011-2nd, but recouped two 2nd rounders in the Tim Erixon (2009-1st) deal.
The other major problem for Calgary is that their other best players is 35yo, while Ottawa's other best player was only 28yo.
No I was asking what prospects Ottawa had 2-3 years ago that Calgary doesn't out side of Karlsson that lead them to keeping Alfie over trading him. I don't know sens prospects that well so I want to know what Ottawa had that made them keep Alfie over moving him.
there is no way Iginla's ego has him playing on the 3rd line which is what he will be in a year or two.
What makes you think Iginla has an ego? You have no ****ing idea what you're talking about.
I've never met Iginla myself, but it seems half of Calgary has. Everyone I know that's met him says he's an incredibly humble and down to earth guy, very nice and appreciative of his fans.
Iginla has 3-4 quality seasons left, I can see CGY retooling and making a run in a season or two...perhaps they sign Semin, if he was added to their team they should make it as a lower seed.
No I was asking what prospects Ottawa had 2-3 years ago that Calgary doesn't out side of Karlsson that lead them to keeping Alfie over trading him. I don't know sens prospects that well so I want to know what Ottawa had that made them keep Alfie over moving him.
Last year or literally 2-3 years ago?
Last year, Ottawa had Regin, Foligno, Greening, Butler, Z.Smith, Condra, Daugavins, DaCosta and O'Brien all 24 or under who looked like they could fill the bottom 7-8 forward spots of a lineup.
27yo Spezza and 26yo Michalek.
In addition, they had 20yo and under Karlsson, Cowen and Rundblad thriving in leagues across the globe. Not to mention, 19yo Lehner dominating the AHL playoffs.
To acquire additional draft picks;
Fisher, Kelly and Campoli returned a 1st & two 2nd's on top of Ottawa's original picks.
I would say that it looked possible to build a team minus a 2-3 scoring forwards, but the Sens knew they were going to draft high & pick a forward (which turned into Zibanejad).
I can understand not wanting to trade away the face of their franchise from a business perspective, but they're really not doing themselves any favours here. Sometimes it has to be done, and ideally they should have done it a year or two ago when his value was very high. I don't think his value is that high anymore, and IMO the value is only going to diminish now, and they'll be looking back wishing they traded him sooner.
It's going to be a long re-build process if they keep him. Trading him would accelerate the process.
A lot of people don't seem to understand this but sometimes there's more to building a winning franchise than maximizing value on every asset. Since the cap floor prevents you from completely gutting the team you have to spend some money on someone, so as long as he wants to stay keeping someone who's been the heart and soul of the team for so long in the locker room can probably provide as much or more value as adding another young player or two to the mix.
No he couldn't. He makes $7,000,000 a year. Other teams have to fit him into their budget. And he's got a No-Trade Clause in his contract: if he's willing to be traded he will give Feaster a limited number of teams to which he will accept being traded to. Instead of being on the open trade market with 29 other teams it'll be 3-5. The Flames will be dealing from a position of weakness.
Trading Iginla might return a pick, a prospect and a salary dump. The pick would be from a contender, therefore a high pick, and the prospect would be 'decent' but definitely not a team's best prospect, which is what the Flames would want/need.
Anybody who thinks dealing away Iginla will cure the Flames ails in the future let alone the here and now is an idiot.
What the hell is a "full rebuild" anyway? Purposely tanking for years on end to stock-pile top-five first round picks? That's a STUPID ****ing strategy that relies on blind, stupid luck. Yes, the Penguins and Blackhawks sucked for years and ended up getting a championship team years later but the Islanders didn't. The Blue Jackets didn't. The Thrashers didn't. Panthers didn't. Who is to say that, even if the Flames traded away Iginla for the #1 pick in the draft, they wouldn't draft the next Patrik Stefan? Patrik Stefan was a GOOD pick at the time. The RIGHT pick. Here we are years later and that team doesn't even exist anymore.
The Florida Panthers have sucked for a loooooooooong time, and how did they 'rebuild'?Free agents. Turned it around in a year signing guys like Tomas Fleischmann.
You can't just "blow it up" and magically expect a championship calibre team five years later. Every single player acquisition, whether it's drafting a junior, signing a free agent or acquiring a player from another team, requires extremely careful planning and work. This isn't ****ing EA Sports fantasyland, this is real life.
Really...? To me it looks like the Pathers blew up their team. If we even look at the last couple of years you can quickly see their rebuild is far more then signing free agents.
In the last two drafts alone they have had 14 picks within the first 3 rounds....
2010 draft: 3 first rounders (3,19,25), 3 second rounders (33,36,50), and 1 third rounder (69).
2011 draft: 1 first rounder (3), 2 second rounders (33,59), and 4 third rounders (64,76,87,91).
Traded away David Booth, Nathan Horton, Gregory Campbell, Keith Ballard, Michael Frolik, Cory Stillman, Bryan McCabe, Radek Dvorak, Dennis Wideman, Bryan Allen, Chris Higgins, Rostislav Olesz.
Traded for Brian Campbell, Tomas Kopecky, Kris Versteeg, Mikael Samuelsson, Wojtek Wolski, Michael Grabner, Steve Bernier, Jack Skille, Sergei Samsonov.
Signed Jose Theodore, Scottie Upshall, Ed Jovanovski, Marcel Goc, Tomas Fleischmann, Sean Bergenheim, John Madden, Christopher Higgins, Mike Weaver.
For all the free agents mentioned as part of their "rebuild" it's often forgotten that the Pathers needed to reach the cap floor this year. Furthermore the ufa signings imo were a way to bridge the gap to the future (Jacob Markstrom, Jonathan Huberdeau, Quinton Howden, Nick Bjugstad, etc.). When the future does arrive they can likely trade the likes of Tomas Kopecky, Sean Bergenheim, Marcel Goc, etc. to further stockpile assets.
So to me it looks like the Pathers blew up their team, while rebuilding and yet still remained competitive. Not to shabby if you ask me... It can be done...
Last edited by GetCluttered22: 04-13-2012 at 02:06 AM.
What high impact youth did the Sens have outside of Karlsson 2-3 years ago that the flames don't have?
Well Alfie was vital in Karlssons progression. We also had Turris and Greening play sizeable roles, and in the case of the former Alfie definitely played a huge part in his success. Difference is, we have Spezza, Karlsson, Michalek, Kuba and even Foligno. Who on the Flames next year will score 35? Even Iginla might not, and we're talking about our 4th or 5th best guy. Iginla could stay on as a mentor on a rebuilding team, but he won't have the impact alfie had simply because he won't have the supporting cast. 60 pts from Alfie got us into the P.Os, whereas 80 from Iginla might not be enough for the Flames.
Interesting. Can't say Iginla/Flames aren't loyal but I am not sure this is a good decision for the Flames future.
OT: Any mod. I added a user on ignore but when that user is quoted I still see those posts - where can I disable even seeing quoted messages by ignored users?
What makes you think Iginla has an ego? You have no ****ing idea what you're talking about.
I've never met Iginla myself, but it seems half of Calgary has. Everyone I know that's met him says he's an incredibly humble and down to earth guy, very nice and appreciative of his fans.
Humble off ice doesn't mean on ice he's cool with everything that comes his way. What has it been-10 different coaches during Iginla's tenure...something just isn't right.
There was speculation that Iginla doesn't buy into "system" play especially if you watch is cnstant cherry picking.
I respect Iginla more for staying in Calgary. Great players should retire on the team they started with.
Personally, its tinted Sundin's rep. And if not for the Sakic -> Borque cup trade off I would view less of Borque as well.
Brodeur is staying. Alfie is staying. Yzerman and Sakic stayed. Lidstrom is staying. Lemieux stayed.
Iginla has given 15 years of his life to the Flames. Just let him retire in a Flames jersey.
Good post. The guy will probably want to continue with an off ice role with the team after he hangs up the skates, this pretty much ensures it will happen.
Great post, but it's sadly going to be ignored on this forum.
Agree Reinharts post was dead on right, especially with what JIs value is right now. That being the case though, IMO the Flames need either more legit NHLers, or resign JI. They've got a lot of holes, and unless some guys surprise, not a lone of talent to fill those slots.
I respect Iginla more for staying in Calgary. Great players should retire on the team they started with.
Personally, its tinted Sundin's rep. And if not for the Sakic -> Borque cup trade off I would view less of Borque as well.
Brodeur is staying. Alfie is staying. Yzerman and Sakic stayed. Lidstrom is staying. Lemieux stayed.
Iginla has given 15 years of his life to the Flames. Just let him retire in a Flames jersey.
Brodeur - 3 cups
Yzerman and Sakic - 5 cups between them
Lidstrom - 4 cups
Lemieux - dos cupos
Why would these guys leave? They've won their prize several times each. Alfie probably wouldn't be hated for trying to go get one himself either.
And even if Iginla does get traded, he can still retire a Flame. He's consistently one of the most fit players showing up to training camp every year, he can play upto and probably into his 40s. It's possible he wins a cup and finishes his career in Calgary.
Well Alfie was vital in Karlssons progression. We also had Turris and Greening play sizeable roles, and in the case of the former Alfie definitely played a huge part in his success. Difference is, we have Spezza, Karlsson, Michalek, Kuba and even Foligno. Who on the Flames next year will score 35? Even Iginla might not, and we're talking about our 4th or 5th best guy. Iginla could stay on as a mentor on a rebuilding team, but he won't have the impact alfie had simply because he won't have the supporting cast. 60 pts from Alfie got us into the P.Os, whereas 80 from Iginla might not be enough for the Flames.
Turris wasn't there 2-3 years ago, Foligno was only a 20-30 point player. I highly doubt Michalek scores 35 again next year as his shooting % was much higher than his career average. I don't see all the top prospects that lead to Ottawa not trading Alfie, I don't think anyone thought Ottawa would turn around like this.
Iginla has 3-4 quality seasons left, I can see CGY retooling and making a run in a season or two...perhaps they sign Semin, if he was added to their team they should make it as a lower seed.
That aging core with Calgary is going nowhere. They'll do what they've been doing the last 3 years.. shuffle a few pieces around and make a furious charge for 8th that will probably come up short.
