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Luongo is a decent goaltender, but at the long-term contract is scary.
Add to the fact he never helped the Florida Panthers steal games and getting this bubble team into the playoffs is another scary thought.
Florida Panthers:
2000-2005: Did not qualify for the playoffs
Vancouver Canucks:
2006: Playoffs
2007: Did not qualify
2008: Playoffs
2009: Playoffs
2010: Finals
2011: Playoffs
So in 11 years Luongo has made the playoffs 5 times. This inconsistency does not scream "franchise" goaltender, but he is still a good starting goaltender behind a good team.
On a team that has missed the playoffs multiple years, he may not be able to make the key saves every night to bale out the mistakes our defense makes on a nightly basis as needed. The Leafs need another Eddie Belfour clone somewhere.
Luongo is a decent goaltender, but at the long-term contract is scary.
Add to the fact he never helped the Florida Panthers steal games and getting this bubble team into the playoffs is another scary thought.
[b]Florida Panthers:[/b
2000-2005: Did not qualify for the playoffs
Vancouver Canucks:
2006: Playoffs
2007: Did not qualify
2008: Playoffs
2009: Playoffs
2010: Finals
2011: Playoff
So in 11 years Luongo has made the playoffs 5 times. This inconsistency does not scream "franchise" goaltender, but he is still a good starting goaltender behind a good team.
On a team that has missed the playoffs multiple years, he may not
be able to make the key saves every night to bale out the mistakes our defense makes on a nightly basis as needed. The Leafs need another Eddie Belfour clone somewhere.
Don't u dare say anything bad about luongo on here. He's flawless and top 5 in the league. So they try to tell me
Luongo is a decent goaltender, but at the long-term contract is scary.
Add to the fact he never helped the Florida Panthers steal games and getting this bubble team into the playoffs is another scary thought.
Florida Panthers:
2000-2005: Did not qualify for the playoffs
Vancouver Canucks:
2006: Playoffs
2007: Did not qualify
2008: Playoffs
2009: Playoffs
2010: Finals
2011: Playoffs
So in 11 years Luongo has made the playoffs 5 times. This inconsistency does not scream "franchise" goaltender, but he is still a good starting goaltender behind a good team.
On a team that has missed the playoffs multiple years, he may not be able to make the key saves every night to bale out the mistakes our defense makes on a nightly basis as needed. The Leafs need another Eddie Belfour clone somewhere.
In the past 5 out of 6 years he's taken his team into the Playoff's and once to the finals. I see nothing wrong with that. I'd rather keep him in Vancouver.
Luongo is a decent goaltender, but at the long-term contract is scary.
Add to the fact he never helped the Florida Panthers steal games and getting this bubble team into the playoffs is another scary thought.
Florida Panthers:
2000-2005: Did not qualify for the playoffs
Vancouver Canucks:
2006: Playoffs
2007: Did not qualify
2008: Playoffs
2009: Playoffs
2010: Finals
2011: Playoffs
So in 11 years Luongo has made the playoffs 5 times. This inconsistency does not scream "franchise" goaltender, but he is still a good starting goaltender behind a good team.
On a team that has missed the playoffs multiple years, he may not be able to make the key saves every night to bale out the mistakes our defense makes on a nightly basis as needed. The Leafs need another Eddie Belfour clone somewhere.
If Luongo is just a "good" goalie for the reasons above, then what's Henrik Lundqvist? Never been out of round 2, and only gotten there twice.
__________________
I told ya so. I was right all along!
If Luongo is just a "good" goalie for the reasons above, then what's Henrik Lundqvist? Never been out of round 2, and only gotten there twice.
Lundqvist is a good goalie
Luongo is a good goalie
Price is a good goalie
Halak is a good goalie
Kipper is a good goalie
Thomas is a late bloomer and became an excellent goalie
Martin Brodeur is a franchise goalie in decline now.
Thomas and Brodeur stole games on their own, just like Belfour and all previous Stanley Cup goaltenders had. Luongo had the chance last year to steal games in the Finals and was out played by Thomas.
Given Rask's emergence, along with Thomas' salary and term, the Leafs would be better served to trade for Tim Thomas. However, the Leafs should just stop trading with Boston for a few years as it would take another high payment to pry him from Boston at this time. However, other teams like Tampa Bay would pick up Thomas over Luongo given salary, term, and body of work.
Price is a RFA soon to be UFA...there's no cost certainty, there's term certainty.
With Luongo, you know you'll have him for a good period of time for $5.3M (cap hit) and after that you can dump him - either minors with a low salary + no cap hit or to a team trying to reach the cap cheap.
Aaaaah ok there Eddie sack. apparently you found some sort of amusement in my comments and decided that being ignorant was a good way to sound cool. We all know he's in the NHL and everybody on these discussions has there own arm chair Gm or coach opinion on a topic. There are lots of high paid players in the NHL from goalies to defense to forwards that earn the money in the regular season but don't in the playoffs and he's one of them. You obviously lacked the ability and skill to be in the NHL unless you are in fact the real Eddie lack and not some penis that thought it
would be cool to name your self after a third string goalie. He may be a starter but when your backup has better stats than u do and a
goalie on a last place team are almost identical to your own it's not good. He is over rated IMO and you can keep yours to your self if that's your idea of intelligent.
I realize they don't get paid in the playoffs.
Cute, look at you calling people names now. Grow up. Same goes to you.(Refer to bold, because I'm sure you wouldn't get it)
Also, Comparing Luongo to Reimer is pure ignorance....
Price is a RFA soon to be UFA...there's no cost certainty, there's term certainty.
With Luongo, you know you'll have him for a good period of time for $5.3M (cap hit) and after that you can dump him - either minors with a low salary + no cap hit or to a team trying to reach the cap cheap.
I agree with this. Rinnes contract signing isnt going to help mtl sign him for cheap either
My opinion is far from misinformed. It's from watching numerous games and highlites that prove my
point. So a career playoff record vs Chicago of 7-10 3.56gaa and a .887 save % is what u call a good goalie. Thats ridiculous. I'm also a goaltender myself and even though I didn't come close to being a pro I know what ****** technique looks like. Your opinion is based on what you hear not from what your watching. It can't be. And as far as him cheating and those things happen yes your right but to him it happens too much. Have another pint
You think you can accurately judge a goalie by 'numerous games and highlights'?
NHL scouts can't properly evaluate a goaltender after an entire season of working with them. Edmonton thought their goalies would maintain a Vezina pace. Burke said they were still evaluating Gustavsson after he'd faced 2500 shots in a Leafs uniform.
Luongo's numbers against Chicago aren't terrific, but they're largely based on a few games. It's easy for a sv% and gaa to tumble horrifically after a few blowouts in a small sample. Last season was 1st star in a shutout in the opener, and 2nd star in a .969sv% performance in game 7. Do you think he "fluked" that in game 7?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayball75
My point is he sucks in the playoffs when it comes to must win games. On a bad team like Toronto hes exposed for his true self.His numbers weren't good on a first place team. Keep living in the dream world you live in. Osgood sucked on bad teams and won cups with Detroit but it wasn't because of him. Luongo will be the same whether they win it or not.
He's a playoff plug.
Must-win games, like game 7 versus Chicago? That's about as must-win as it gets. How about game 5 vs Boston, coming home after being shelled in games #3/#4? Shutout. How about the Olympics, when any loss would eliminate Canada? Won them all, including game-saving stops in overtimes and with a dozen seconds left.
If Luongo is "exposed" by being on a poor team, how did he possibly earn a Vezina nomination and a 2nd team all-star on a team that didn't make the playoffs? Do you even know how rare that is?
"His numbers weren't good on a first place team" is what you said. Here are Luongo's numbers from the last 5 years:
Year
GAA
Save %
Even Strength sv%
Shorthanded sv%
07-08
2.38
0.917
0.929
0.872
08-09
2.34
0.920
0.936
0.858
09-10
2.57
0.913
0.925
0.860
10-11
2.11
0.928
0.934
0.897
11-12
2.41
0.919
0.929
0.870
Going over a basic fact about goaltending - namely, even strength save percentage is much more accurate, as overall save percentage is highly affected by the number of 5-on-3s faced, total number of penalties taken, plus the fact PK sv% is highly affected by luck (hence, no goaltender ever posts a very good PK sv% consistently)..
Luongo has not only been remarkably consistent, but his numbers are ever so marginally different than last year... and right in line with his 5-yr average. If there was ever proof that all you do is look at his stat line on ESPN, that's it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayball75
Price and luongo had virtually identical numbers this year with the big difference being the Canucks were at the top and the canadiens were at the bottom of the league. Luongo would not be
the answer for the leafs. He's the Canucks version of osgood when playing for Detroit. Pump luongos tires all u want his reg season stats don't mean anything in the playoffs. His bad habits will be the down fall of the Canucks.
Let's look at Luongo and Price's numbers that are "virtually identical", with league-rank (among goalies with 20+ games).
Player
GAA
sv%
even strength sv%
penalty kill sv%
Luongo
2.41 (16th)
0.919 (13th)
0.929 (8th)
0.870 (29th)
Price
2.43 (20th)
0.916 (22nd)
0.918 (30th)
0.907 (8th)
So their overall save percentage and goals against average were similar, but Price's numbers were buoyed by a great PK sv% (again, lucky), and Luongo's were sunk because of a terrible PK sv%.
If you don't believe me that a PK sv% is largely luck, here's the top-5 goalies in PK-SV% over the last little while (again, minimum of 20gp):
Lonny you sound pretty cool from the other side of the key board. Their are people who like him such as your self and people like me that think he's a choker and that won't change. Doesn't matter how many saves in games like last night. he let's in the bad ones at the wrong time. He has poor technique and almost no ability to hold his position once he drops to
his knees. He falls forward on his gut or on his back. If hes playing the shot on richards goal instead of playing thise shots the same way everytime like its a pass he might save it. The book is out and its shoot at his feet from down low to score.Anyway it's like talking to a child explaining why he's not as good as you think he is
Since when did technique matter? If it works for him great! theres a reason why he'd have multiple Vezinas if Brodeur wasn't in his prime years during Luongo's prime years. Add to the fact he played on the Panthers and stopping 40/50+ shots in a game on a weekly basis couldn't help his team win. yet even with a losing record he would be Brodeur's runner up.
Theres a guy named Dominik Hasek, ever heard of him? He probably had the worst technique of any goalie and yet he's one of the greatest goalies of all time.
Luongo's prime is almost over and yet he still is a top 3-5 goalie in the league. Just last season he was a top 3 vezina finalist. His prime is almost over and yet he's still putting up his career average in stats
People say Luongo is a playoff choker, you guys do know he has some of the best playoff stats amongst active goalies. Guess who holds the record of most saves in a playoff game? Oh thats right Luongo! 72 saves on 76 shots. Yet even though his sv% has only been below .914 in the playoffs ONCE, he's a terrible playoff goalie. Show me a goalie that has those kind of stats.
Did you also know Brodeur's career sv% in the regular season is lower than Luongo's? .913% to .919%. Brodeurs playoff sv% .919% while Luongo's .917%. This is the greatest goalie of all time. GAA Brodeur's better at 2.23 and 2.01 in the playoffs compared to Luongo's 2.52 and 2.51 in the playoffs But what do u expect? Luongo played for a horrible Panthers team and a horrible Canucks team that trapped for 3 years and the past 3 years played a run and gun game. Brodeur played behind 2 of the greatest d-men ever in Niedermayer and Stevens along with a trap system for countless years. So its a given his gaa is going to be lower.
Last edited by Silverback91: 04-13-2012 at 04:44 AM.
I'm a little puzzled by this thread. Gump Worsley has a better chance at going to Toronto than Luongo does.
Supposing the Aquilinis forgive Burke for his meddling with their ownership transfer and they trade him to Toronto. This gives Toronto a declining, aging starter who starts every season with a month at .500. Can Toronto just turn on the jets in November and easily overcome a slow start?
One of the defining elements of Burke's Vancouver career was named Cloutier. Burke was stubborn, not as stubborn as he was with Umberger, but still too stubborn to admit any flaw in his roster for too long. Did he grow some perspective in Toronto?
Luongo's value to Toronto is that Burke would have to be removed to get him.
We will all see how he does this year in the playoffs. Well see if he can keep from crying in post game interviews blaming himself for not playing good enough to win. Winning a game 5 and losing the next two and pulled in one of them is hardly impressive. He's 33
yrs old and he's been in the league long enough for me to know he's overrated. Big deal you proved his numbers to
be good but it doesn't change he choked when it mattered most. Eddie lack can you show me where I even mentioned reimer As a comparison to luongo?
Technique does matter when it comes to rebounds and actually being in the right spot to make a save. Battling to make saves and doing whatever it takes to stop the puck isn't a technique and everyone does it different from luongo to Brodeur to Giguere to Thomas but it's important too. Making a save look easy that really isn't is most impressive but jumping around more than you have too isn't. When fluery came into the NHL he had crazy fast feet and ability to react quick. Now he's more controlled and more effective while still being quick. Thomas is a mixed bag of all those goalies I mentioned and very entertaining to watch but he still has a technique that he plays certain situations a certain way. Giguere would be the most technical and positional of the ones I said. He relies a lot on percentages and he doesn't always battle by throwing himself around. Hasek and Brodeur are old school but they still do things a certain way.
No. a decade remaining on his contract until he's 43 scares teams.
His cap hit is relatively low because he got a 12 year deal.
And how exactly does the length of his deal scare teams? Luongo has a NTC, NOT a NMC. when he's 37/38 either a) buy him out or b) dump him in the minors a la Wade Redden.
Again, the money is coming out of the owner's personal pocket for his salary, the cap hit is now gone.
Hell, Luongo's Contract was front loaded, so by that time, he's only costing the owner 1.2 million per year, easy target for a buy out.
I'm a little puzzled by this thread. Gump Worsley has a better chance at going to Toronto than Luongo does.
Supposing the Aquilinis forgive Burke for his meddling with their ownership transfer and they trade him to Toronto. This gives Toronto a declining, aging starter who starts every season with a month at .500. Can Toronto just turn on the jets in November and easily overcome a slow start?
One of the defining elements of Burke's Vancouver career was named Cloutier. Burke was stubborn, not as stubborn as he was with Umberger, but still too stubborn to admit any flaw in his roster for too long. Did he grow some perspective in Toronto?
Luongo's value to Toronto is that Burke would have to be removed to get him.
Luongos only had slow Octobers the last few years as a Canuck. Besides that, he has never had that problem so whos to say maybe it isnt a coaching problem as well as a complete team thing
Kessel fetched 2 first and a second (overpayment in the end). Nash will fetch similar to 3 first rounders in the end and his contract is arguably worse.
Goalies simply aren't worth what scorers are on the trade market. We've seen it several times. One of the more recent examples being Halak to St. Louis for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz.
I recognize that Luongo is more proven than Halak, but even on a good contract he's not so much better than Halak that he tilts it into the realm of 3 firsts. Include the contract factor (money, term and ntc) and he's probably not worth much more than Halak was, if at all.
In regards to the OP, I don't see a fit between Toronto and Vancouver.
Luongo is a decent goaltender, but at the long-term contract is scary.
Add to the fact he never helped the Florida Panthers steal games and getting this bubble team into the playoffs is another scary thought.
Florida Panthers:
2000-2005: Did not qualify for the playoffs
Vancouver Canucks:
2006: Playoffs
2007: Did not qualify
2008: Playoffs
2009: Playoffs
2010: Finals
2011: Playoffs
So in 11 years Luongo has made the playoffs 5 times. This inconsistency does not scream "franchise" goaltender, but he is still a good starting goaltender behind a good team.
On a team that has missed the playoffs multiple years, he may not be able to make the key saves every night to bale out the mistakes our defense makes on a nightly basis as needed. The Leafs need another Eddie Belfour clone somewhere.
u do know Thomas has only made the playoffs 4 times in 7 years and almost cost his team the series against TB who is a less offensive team than the Canucks but didnt have Stamkos and St.Louis playing through major injuries like Hank and Kes were.
Luongo minus Florida as they had one of the worst teams in the league, has made the playoffs 6 times out of 7 as a Canuck.
Aaaaah ok there Eddie sack. apparently you found some sort of amusement in my comments and decided that being ignorant was a good way to sound cool. We all know he's in the NHL and everybody on these discussions has there own arm chair Gm or coach opinion on a topic. There are lots of high paid players in the NHL from goalies to defense to forwards that earn the money in the regular season but don't in the playoffs and he's one of them. You obviously lacked the ability and skill to be in the NHL unless you are in fact the real Eddie lack and not some penis that thought it
would be cool to name your self after a third string goalie. He may be a starter but when your backup has better stats than u do and a goalie on a last place team are almost identical to your own it's not good. He is over rated IMO and you can keep yours to your self if that's your idea of intelligent.
u do know Thomas has only made the playoffs 4 times in 7 years and almost cost his team the series against TB who is a less offensive team than the Canucks but didnt have Stamkos and St.Louis playing through major injuries like Hank and Kes were.
Luongo minus Florida as they had one of the worst teams in the league, has made the playoffs 6 times out of 7 as a Canuck.
I never stated Luongo is a bad goaltender, in fact it was stated he is a good goaltender. However, Luongo is not the goaltender for the Leafs and no matter how it is spun Thomas did bail out the Bruins many nights during last years playoffs and out played Luongo in the Finals. Thomas right now is the better goaltender and last night was another showing of his dominance with a shutout win.
I never stated Luongo is a bad goaltender, in fact it was stated he is a good goaltender. However, Luongo is not the goaltender for the Leafs and no matter how it is spun Thomas did bail out the Bruins many nights during last years playoffs and out played Luongo in the Finals. Thomas right now is the better goaltender and last night was another showing of his dominance with a shutout win.
Thomas faced 17 shots last night... including just 5 shots in the 2nd period... Ovechkin had 1 shot in the game... Semin had 1 shot in the game... that's 2 shots combined by their 2 best scorers!
Last night wasn't a showing of his dominance at all.. it was a showing of the Bruins defensive dominance over the inept Caps offense. Thomas had the easiest night among any starting goalie in the playoffs so far. The next highest shot total after game 1 belonged to Quick/Howard/Fleury each facing 26 shots in their games.
Thomas had by far the easiest night during every goalies' game 1.
Thomas faced 17 shots last night... including just 5 shots in the 2nd period... Ovechkin had 1 shot in the game... Semin had 1 shot in the game... that's 2 shots combined by their 2 best scorers!
Last night wasn't a showing of his dominance at all.. it was a showing of the Bruins defensive dominance over the inept Caps offense. Thomas had the easiest night among any starting goalie in the playoffs so far. The next highest shot total after game 1 belonged to Quick/Howard/Fleury each facing 26 shots in their games.
Thomas had by far the easiest night during every goalies' game 1.
Pfft put 17 shots on Reimer or Gustavsson and it would have been 3-0 for the Capitals.
