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Ryan Smyth... I see trouble ahead

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Old
04-13-2012, 01:14 AM
  #151
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I've said a one year deal all along, if he wants 2 he can go and play for the Flames, quite frankly I don't give a ****. He's always been a pain in the ass to sign, he no longer holds leverage as one of our best players, if he wants to price himself out of the market for a 2nd time, then that's his problem when Tambo tells him to piss off.

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04-13-2012, 01:16 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by plikestechno View Post
This team doesn't have enough guys to score goals still (another reason to draft Yakupov) and no one on this team consistently scores them like Smyth taking a beating and being dirty in front of the net. He's still an important vet presence as well.
4 goals in the final 44 games is not 'consistently'.

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04-13-2012, 01:17 AM
  #153
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I mean over his career and style of play. That's where he goes and no one else on our team goes there on a consistent basis. Yet. We really can't just train a kid to stand in front of the net, be a pain to the goalie, tip shots and cash in garbage? Is it that rare of a skillset? That hard to get someone to do that? Paajarvi'd be perfect physically and he has such a crappy shot but he's obviously not willing to stay in front of the net and put everything on the line to make a goal happen.

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04-13-2012, 01:23 AM
  #154
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Yeah, Smyth is like an old cougar in a young-crowd night-club after last call, and the lights come on.

That cougar used to be really really hot at one point in time, but is now quite ugly, nobody cares what she used to be, and the younger hotter crowd makes her look even older and grosser. What makes it even worse, is back when she was hot, she dissed you real bad, and went with someone with more money.

And now that cougar came crawling back to you, but now expects you to put a ring on it.




Bleah...

Why do we care about Smyth on this team when We're getting a younger faster better winger?


:/

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04-13-2012, 01:26 AM
  #155
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maybe hes deciding to retire?

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04-13-2012, 01:27 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Yeah, Smyth is like an old cougar in a young-crowd night-club after last call, and the lights come on.

That cougar used to be really really hot at one point in time, but is now quite ugly, nobody cares what she used to be, and the younger hotter crowd makes her look even older and grosser. What makes it even worse, is back when she was hot, she dissed you real bad.

And now that cougar came crawling back to you, but now expects you to put a ring on it.




Bleah...

Why do we care about Smyth on this team when We're getting a younger faster better winger?


:/
I'd still put the ring on the cougar

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04-13-2012, 01:29 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Yeah, Smyth is like an old cougar in a young-crowd night-club after last call, and the lights come on.
Warren Zevon, everyone:

"And when the lights came up at two, I caught a glimpse of you, and your face looked like something Death brought with him in his suitcase."

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04-13-2012, 01:30 AM
  #158
Perfect_Drug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Warren Zevon, everyone:

"And when the lights came up at two, I caught a glimpse of you, and your face looked like something Death brought with him in his suitcase."
I have no idea what that's from, but it makes me think of Amanda Lepore.

;/

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04-13-2012, 01:38 AM
  #159
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I knew this would be a problem. He's entered the dreaded tweener zone. He's no longer really a top two line player and we will have another one passing him by if we draft Yakupov. And he really isn't that great on the last two lines either. He never was a great skater. He isn't physical and doesn't help by banging bodies or dropping the gloves. He can kill penalties but is just as likely to slash or high stick his way into a two man disadvantage as help us.

The thing I always end up with is I want more size and jam added to this team. The kids are what they are. They aren't going to grow into power forwards no matter how much time they spend in the gym. The rest of the lineup has to grow. And Smyth is in one of those spots that needs to get bigger, tougher, faster and more reliable defensively.

To tell you the truth I'd seriously think about putting him on the back burner and head into free agency. If he finds himself a better fit so be it. If we find an upgrade we do it. And if neither happens then talk about bringing him back on a one year deal. The one thing I would offer him though is a no trade clause on one year deals if that was important to him.

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04-13-2012, 02:13 AM
  #160
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If you're expecting him to create offense, you just aren't a great evaluator of talent. If you want him off this team, you aren't a very great evaluator of talent. If Holmstrom can hang with the Wings still why can't Smyth? Maybe he can't create chances, but he can finish them still. He has to be played in a proper role and he will succeed. He isn't that first line winger anymore but he is still very valuable and a great leader.

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04-13-2012, 02:22 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
If you're expecting him to create offense, you just aren't a great evaluator of talent. If you want him off this team, you aren't a very great evaluator of talent. If Holmstrom can hang with the Wings still why can't Smyth? Maybe he can't create chances, but he can finish them still. He has to be played in a proper role and he will succeed. He isn't that first line winger anymore but he is still very valuable and a great leader.
The problem here is that Smyth thinks that he's still a top-six winger and wants to be paid like one. He's trying to squeeze every dollar out of a team that he supposedly wants to play for. A team that he demanded a trade to. Either he's not very bright or he's just supremely arrogant.

You mentioned the Wings, well, Smyth should be getting in the area of what Bertuzzi and Holmstrom are getting. 1.8 to 2 million per and nothing more.

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04-13-2012, 02:24 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The problem here is that Smyth thinks that he's still a top-six winger and wants to be paid like one. He's trying to squeeze every dollar out of a team that he supposedly wants to play for. A team that he demanded a trade to. Either he's not very bright or he's just supremely arrogant.

You mentioned the Wings, well, Smyth should be getting in the area of what Bertuzzi and Holmstrom are getting. 1.8 to 2 million per and nothing more.
His agent has a lot to do with this as well.

Oh and by the way, Eberle has the same agent...

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04-13-2012, 03:14 AM
  #163
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No real idea what Smyth is asking for and what Tambo is offering so I can't give an accurate assessment.

I will say I didn't really care if he came back or not last year... he's not a guy in the long term plans of the team and he's obviously lost some of what he had in the past. He's still a decent NHL player but like with Khabby and the rest of the Oilers early on.... I think that was all a super hot streak where every thing went perfectly and they and Smyth crashed back to reality pretty hard.

Going forward, he's not a 4 million dollar man. Yes I know Horcs is making well over that (stupid contract signed years ago) and Hemsky was re-upped for 5 million as well. I didn't mind the Hemsky deal because if he stays healthy (unlikely but possible) and plays like he can... 5 million is not an overpayment... plus the term of 2 years for a player in his mid-late 20's is reasonable.

Smyth is a totally different situation, a player with a lot less talent and who relies on grit and tenacity. He IS still a good NHL player.. but I agree he should be in a 3rd line role along with Horcoff and that means he gets a 2-2.5 million contract at most and a 1 year term as the Oilers have plenty of assets that NEED to be worked into their lineup in coming years.

Sentimentality can only go so far. His role is diminishing (or at least should be) so he needs to realize and accept that and take a massive paycut and not expect a multi-year term either... if he can't... then he's free to go to Calgary or another team that will value his experience and veteran leadership more than the Oilers.

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04-13-2012, 03:26 AM
  #164
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Does he fit in our third line?

Hall-Gagner-Eberle
PRV-RNH-Yakupov
Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky
Eager-Belanger-Jones

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Old
04-13-2012, 03:42 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
His agent has a lot to do with this as well.

Oh and by the way, Eberle has the same agent...
So are Jeff Petry and Andy Sutton.

Majority of Meehan's clients have no problems signing contracts with every team in the league, but virtually every one of Smyth's contract negotiations with Edmonton dating way back have been contentious.

It's a myth at this point, Smyth's agent does what his client wants, he's not in the background throwing a wrench into things.


Last edited by Tarus: 04-13-2012 at 04:57 AM.
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Old
04-13-2012, 03:43 AM
  #166
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Honestly, since we're drafting Yakupov I really don't care. Along the wings, on the left side we have Hall, Hartikanen, Paajarvi and Eager. I'd rather give either Paajarvi a shot or keep Hartkianen in the top 6. Smyth has this idea he is worth way more than he is and I really don't think the team needs to unload a lot of money on to him at this point considering how useless he was for a good portion of last season.

I'd rather trade for Morrow than re-sign Smyth.
I wasn't aware the oilers are drafting Yakupov 100%. They are just as likely to trade down for Murray.

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04-13-2012, 03:51 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
I'm tired of overpaying players who don't deserve it.

1 year, 2.5M.

Take it or leave it.
They probably offered him 3M, and he still didn't take it. Just because we sucked it up for one year and paid him money he didn't deserve doesn't mean we're going to follow up on it with another ridiculous contract. I don't know if i can even stand Smyth any longer, i thought he learned from this.

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04-13-2012, 04:54 AM
  #168
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Personally I want our veterans who are supposed to provide secondary scoring to have speed. Smyth is still useful but he can't ask for too much money, he's just not worth it anymore. It's great to have him come back to Edmonton, but I'm not sure how he fits with the new core.

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04-13-2012, 06:18 AM
  #169
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ALL THE old wounds in my heart were healed last summer. I can take it or leave it, either way i'm okay.

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04-13-2012, 06:28 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
I wasn't aware the oilers are drafting Yakupov 100%. They are just as likely to trade down for Murray.


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04-13-2012, 09:14 AM
  #171
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Its partly circumstantial. Smyth has been here up this alley before with the club paying more for the services of his linemates, Horc, and Hemsky, than they offer him.

I don't know that Smyth needs the money, but it probably dawns on him that two players that put up consistent cluster**** seasons are getting paid a whole lot more money.

I'm thinking thats a problem. No easy solution.

I can imagine its a lot of a lowball. The team offering 2.5M wouldn't surprise me. .
Look, I'm as much of a Smyth fan as most (rational) people. But this above is hogwash!

Players get paid their big contracts when they are in the prime of their careers. Smyth already is well thru his prime earning years. See the chapter where he left this club over $100K to cash in elsewhere. Good for him, but he can't expect to turn back father time now.

Horcoff, for all that is wrong with that contract, signed it while in the prime of his game (or a year removed). He was fit, healthy and a main cog in the team. He signed for less money than was offered Smyth... at his peak (when he signed) he was a 60 to 70 point guy... just like Smyth. And they overpaid for all the same reasons, overpaid to be a glue guy.

Hemsky is considerably younger and more talented than both of those guys... talent gets paid, pure and simple. That's the way it has always been. Hemsky was the best player on the team for nearly the entirety of his $4M cap hit contract. He got a bit overpaid this year, but this is going to be his biggest contract (based on his age)... he's in his prime earning years, and despite greater talent and ability to change a game, he's getting much less than he would have had he been healthy.

Smyth, needs to get out of the nineties... he's past his expiry date and has an opportunity to play "Dave Andreychuk" to these talented kids. He should be chomping at the bit to sign here on a sweetheart deal.

Smyth already had his paycheque.... I'll shed no tears if he can't come to grips with his own reality.

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04-13-2012, 09:19 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The problem here is that Smyth thinks that he's still a top-six winger and wants to be paid like one. He's trying to squeeze every dollar out of a team that he supposedly wants to play for. A team that he demanded a trade to. Either he's not very bright or he's just supremely arrogant.

You mentioned the Wings, well, Smyth should be getting in the area of what Bertuzzi and Holmstrom are getting. 1.8 to 2 million per and nothing more.
Onside with this!

I fear this has a lot to do with Smyth wanting to have the past (in his mind) corrected and it isn't really about the money, but about the signal he gets from mgmt.

He's going to lose that battle of wills I fear, there is no rationale argument supporting his position.

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04-13-2012, 09:20 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by StephenHAWKING View Post
They probably offered him 3M, and he still didn't take it. Just because we sucked it up for one year and paid him money he didn't deserve doesn't mean we're going to follow up on it with another ridiculous contract. I don't know if i can even stand Smyth any longer, i thought he learned from this.
How do you know the Oilers "probably" offered him 3M? No one knows what he was offered, both money wise and term. I would think he is holding back because of term, not so sure about the money. I see a lot of conjecture that Smyth is some kind of greedy *******, but we might be surprised what the offer was when it comes out in the wash.

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04-13-2012, 09:29 AM
  #174
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I can see Smyth wanting 2-3 years, but even 2 years is a long way away, especially because he's not a Recchibor Brind'Amour

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04-13-2012, 10:32 AM
  #175
bucks_oil
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Yeah, Smyth is like an old cougar in a young-crowd night-club after last call, and the lights come on.

That cougar used to be really really hot at one point in time, but is now quite ugly, nobody cares what she used to be, and the younger hotter crowd makes her look even older and grosser. What makes it even worse, is back when she was hot, she dissed you real bad, and went with someone with more money.

And now that cougar came crawling back to you, but now expects you to put a ring on it.




Bleah...

Why do we care about Smyth on this team when We're getting a younger faster better winger?


:/
WOOOT!!!! Great analogy!!!

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