Yeah, Smyth is like an old cougar in a young-crowd night-club after last call, and the lights come on.
That cougar used to be really really hot at one point in time, but is now quite ugly, nobody cares what she used to be, and the younger hotter crowd makes her look even older and grosser. What makes it even worse, is back when she was hot, she dissed you real bad, and went with someone with more money.
And now that cougar came crawling back to you, but now expects you to put a ring on it.
Bleah...
Why do we care about Smyth on this team when We're getting a younger faster better winger?
id offer him 6 million over 3 years but load it this way
year 1 3million
year 2 2million
year 3 1 million
since next year they have the most cap space still.
Smyth is 36 yrs old and plays mainly on the 3rd line, how do you justify spending 3 million for him next year for that. We will have the highest paying 3rd liners in the league with Horcs at 6 million. I think we already did Smyth a favour by taking him from the Kings as he had wished paying him 4.5 million.
If we do sign him, it will be a base salary of 2 million with performance bonuses reaching a total of 3 million as his salary. I would only sign him for 1 year plus option. He will be 37 next year. If he expects us to be loyal then the same has to be true from his end. I think the Oilers has already displayed their loyalty by taking him back.
If we take out the fact that he was developed here, was a crowd favorite and loves Edmonton, does he meet our needs going forward? I would say no. IMO, he'd be an ok 4th line player given his lack of speed, dwindling offensive abilities and lack of physical play.
All those wanting Smyth signing for more than nest year, are not thinking ahead. The team owes him nada. Only passionate fans that don't dig deeper intofuture makeup going forward. That said, I have no problem with him signing 1yr-2.5mil max.
If we take out the fact that he was developed here, was a crowd favorite and loves Edmonton, does he meet our needs going forward? I would say no. IMO, he'd be an ok 4th line player given his lack of speed, dwindling offensive abilities and lack of physical play.
Except for the fact that the Oilers have a lack of forwards who can play 5 v 5 against top opposition and penalty kill.
You think he's fourth line material when he played the most time on ice of any winger this season?
Are you actually suggesting that there are six wingers who are better on the Oilers right now?
The difference this time is nobody is going to really care if he walks away from this organization again. Also, he's completely oblivious to his skill set now if he thinks anyone is going to give him the money he's asking for and term he is looking for.
Except for the fact that the Oilers have a lack of forwards who can play 5 v 5 against top opposition and penalty kill.
You think he's fourth line material when he played the most time on ice of any winger this season?
Are you actually suggesting that there are six wingers who are better on the Oilers right now?
And both he and horcoff and belanger and the rest of the vets proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can't so the job. Our vets suck and if we played all young players what is going to happen, we are going to fall to 30th? Out most minute players will be minus 20?
If we take out the fact that he was developed here, was a crowd favorite and loves Edmonton, does he meet our needs going forward? I would say no. IMO, he'd be an ok 4th line player given his lack of speed, dwindling offensive abilities and lack of physical play.
So who are the better wingers on this club in terms of 5x5 play and the PK?
If we take out the fact that he was developed here, was a crowd favorite and loves Edmonton, does he meet our needs going forward? I would say no. IMO, he'd be an ok 4th line player given his lack of speed, dwindling offensive abilities and lack of physical play.
4th liners don't rank in the top 120 for forwards in offense. He might have to take lessor role, but it's not going to be a 4th line role. Might as well call him a 13th forward if that's your stance.
And both he and horcoff and belanger and the rest of the vets proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they can't so the job. Our vets suck and if we played all young players what is going to happen, we are going to fall to 30th? Out most minute players will be minus 20?
It is clear to me Beerfish that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Plus/minus is not an indicator of defensive prowess, it's an indicator of outscoring prowess. Smyth finished with a -5 playing against top line opposition saddled with Horcoff and Jones (usually), starting most shifts in his own defensive zone. That's a really good result.
If you think that Smyth's performance this season was a bad one considering his role, then you and me have nothing to discuss because we are at polar opposites. I think Smyth had a very strong season.
Think of it this way. If I told you that player X was a 3rd line checker, would play against the Sedins and other top lines every night, would start most shifts in their own end, would play the first line penalty kill and he would score 19 goals, 46 pts with a -5 plus minus: that's a fantastic result. Furthermore, he scored 38 even strength points despite playing with Horcoff and Jones and against the best - 38 even strength points is second best on the team after Eberle so you know that he didn't cherry pick his points on the Powerplay.
You want to throw some kids out there shutting down the opposition because you don't think there's much difference between 29th and 30th? The same argument could be used for benching Hall, Eberle and RNH - and throwing out Vandevelde, Paajarvi and Lander in their place. It's an idiotic argument.
It is clear to me Beerfish that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Plus/minus is not an indicator of defensive prowess, it's an indicator of outscoring prowess. Smyth finished with a -5 playing against top line opposition saddled with Horcoff and Jones (usually), starting most shifts in his own defensive zone. That's a really good result.
If you think that Smyth's performance this season was a bad one considering his role, then you and me have nothing to discuss because we are at polar opposites. I think Smyth had a very strong season.
Think of it this way. If I told you that player X was a 3rd line checker, would play against the Sedins and other top lines every night, would start most shifts in their own end, would play the first line penalty kill and he would score 19 goals, 46 pts with a -5 plus minus: that's a fantastic result. Furthermore, he scored 38 even strength points despite playing with Horcoff and Jones and against the best - 38 even strength points is second best on the team after Eberle so you know that he didn't cherry pick his points on the Powerplay.
You want to throw some kids out there shutting down the opposition because you don't think there's much difference between 29th and 30th? The same argument could be used for benching Hall, Eberle and RNH - and throwing out Vandevelde, Paajarvi and Lander in their place. It's an idiotic argument.
There seems top be a strong bias against veterans on this board. In some cases (Horcoff) I'm sure it can be justified, but I wonder if it's because everyone has seen enough of these older players to know their weaknesses, but with young players, it's all about their potential.
So who are the better wingers on this club in terms of 5x5 play and the PK?
Jones was better on the PK. And just because Smyth was one of the better vets on our team at that doesn't make him good enough. All our vets sucked badly this year. There are better options via trade or FA.
I have no problem walking away from Smyth if he wants to be tough to sign again.
Jones was better on the PK. And just because Smyth was one of the better vets on our team at that doesn't make him good enough. All our vets sucked badly this year.
Painting a broad brush doesn't make it true. Not all of the veterans sucked this season. Smyth certainly didn't. Neither did Gilbert. Neither did Smid. Sutton played as well as could be expected.
Also, not all the kids played well either. Peckham, Paajarvi, Lander, Teubert did not play well this season.
And how on earth was Jones better on the PK? You do realize that Jones was not on the first penalty killing unit, and hence played against most teams second pp unit?
Jones was better on the PK. And just because Smyth was one of the better vets on our team at that doesn't make him good enough. All our vets sucked badly this year. There are better options via trade or FA.
I have no problem walking away from Smyth if he wants to be tough to sign again.
Lets give Smyth some credit though. He was good in the first half of the season. I think he ran out of gas. I couldn't care less if he was re-signed but I bet if he was used in strictly a 3rd line/PK role, the high level of play would last longer and he was be a valuable member of the Oilers. The same could be said for Horcoff(who actually had a pretty good 20-30 games to start the season).
I would like Smyth back a lot, because he's a great mentor and a useful vet, loves the city, etc. It just has to be on the Oilers terms. We can't keep him if it means sacrificing something in the future, and if he can't understand that then it's probably best that he moves on anyway.
Painting a broad brush doesn't make it true. Not all of the veterans sucked this season. Smyth certainly didn't. Neither did Gilbert. Neither did Smid. Sutton played as well as could be expected.
Also, not all the kids played well either. Peckham, Paajarvi, Lander, Teubert did not play well this season.
And how on earth was Jones better on the PK? You do realize that Jones was not on the first penalty killing unit, and hence played against most teams second pp unit?
Teams don't always throw out their 1st unit first. If that line draws the call then Jones would be out against the 1st unit. And I don't have a link to the stats but it was posted around here before that Jones and Belanger were far and away the best forwards at GA/min of PK.
You are correct there are vets who had good years like Smid. But they were few and far between and Smyth wasn't one of them. He had a good couple of months and then was pretty much useless. So unless you are willing to say Khabby also had a good year for his Oct and Nov, then Smyth doesn't qualify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking
Lets give Smyth some credit though. He was good in the first half of the season. I think he ran out of gas. I couldn't care less if he was re-signed but I bet if he was used in strictly a 3rd line/PK role, the high level of play would last longer and he was be a valuable member of the Oilers. The same could be said for Horcoff(who actually had a pretty good 20-30 games to start the season).
I would be more than willing to sign Smyth in Dec and let him play a partial season where he could be useful. Or to sign him for a reasonable amount to play in the bottom 6. I am not willing to let him demand 3y @4M based on the fact that we drafted him and he played here a number of years. He simply isn't worth that and it's better for us to let him walk in that situation.
Teams don't always throw out their 1st unit first. If that line draws the call then Jones would be out against the 1st unit. And I don't have a link to the stats but it was posted around here before that Jones and Belanger were far and away the best forwards at GA/min of PK.
Theres a couple goals difference stretched across all year. With it being uncertain how the GA data are impacted by opponents, by defensive pairings, home, road, etc.
Anybody familiar with stats should look at a slight difference, i,e, a couple data pts more or less as being insignificant.
The more obvious deduction was they all did well on the PK. We had good units this year. Plus that its not an either/or supposition, the team benefitted by having a full cast of guys to draw on for the pk.
Quote:
You are correct there are vets who had good years like Smid. But they were few and far between and Smyth wasn't one of them. He had a good couple of months and then was pretty much useless. So unless you are willing to say Khabby also had a good year for his Oct and Nov, then Smyth doesn't qualify.
How about he was arguably the best player on the club for a couple months? Does that still get thrown out? The guy finished with 38EV pts and 46 in all and people want to somehow equate that to a nothing contrbution?
Jones was better on the PK. And just because Smyth was one of the better vets on our team at that doesn't make him good enough. All our vets sucked badly this year. There are better options via trade or FA.
I have no problem walking away from Smyth if he wants to be tough to sign again.
I agree about the whole signing/money per year everyone is talking about but out of all our vets, Smyth was easily the best, although the best of the worst isn't amazing. He was just playing more minutes then he used to, I don't think he played PK in LA for example, that's not his fault it was the coaches, He still scores those greasy gritty goals,
I don't even notice him defensively and I don't get how aside from a 5 or 6 game stretch with RNH/eberle his +/- is only -5 compared to Horcoffs -23, This guy cares about being an Oiler and bleeds blue, He is constant effort, and does whatever is asked, he played on the 2nd PP, first line second line third line, Pk..He should be resigned, His dumb penalties were hilarious, and watching him slowly skate down the wing and take a slow slapshot never got old, I dont mind smyth.
That being said for all the crap about him wanting to be an oiler etc etc sure goes to the pot when it comes time for his money
