I believe this is different angle at same party ,, I like the end of the clip
Guy says "I hate Edmonton" and the chick says "They get the top pick every ,, 3 years in a row"
Oy..... stop that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg
I'm shocked at the indignation Hawks fans are showing over this. Really folks? The one team that would best understand Edmonton's path to hopefully become a relevant franchise once again and you look down on it?
I wouldn't call it indignation, just feeling bad for another more heavily ****-upon franchise (Columbus) and just general pointing and laughing at an organization somehow apparently more incompetent then ours was under the old regime (Edmonton).
I've said it a few other times elsewhere, but I just don't have any faith in your organization to turn things around for the Oilers. Your team has managed to get the top picks in the draft as of late, but haven't done much beyond that and don't appear to be on the verge of doing so in the future. In the end, that's just going to push problems down the road for your team rather then actually starting a rebuild which is so desperately needed in Edmonton.
With Yakupov, you'll get another quality forward, but then what? Still no depth, still meh defense and goaltending, and still seemingly no ability to attract free agent talent. It'd be like if the Hawks had Toews and Kane and Stamkos (assume we sucked again and got the top draft pick in 2008) and.... absolutely nothing else. Guess what.... we wouldn't be doing anything, we wouldn't be on the verge of returning back to the playoffs, and other fanbases would be laughing their butts off at us for being a dead end for high-end draft picks who we'd eventually lose in free agency (though to a slightly lesser degree, as we'd have a #3 and then two #1s, versus three straight #1s).
So no, Hawks of a few year ago and the Oilers of today aren't comparable right now, as the Hawks organization focused on a bunch of deficiencies that allowed for our high draft picks of Toews and Kane to actually blossom and for Chicago to become a place where free agents like Hossa were interested in coming. And then, when we ran into cap hell and got rid a lot of our depth, we still retained an excellent core and remained a playoff team, albeit just barely, and had a Cup in our possession to soften the loss of beloved players like Ladd and Byfuglien, among others.
Plus, I'd have to imagine that if any team got three straight first overall picks in today's NHL, they'd be universally ridiculed across the board.
I hope you guys do turn things around, especially as having good competition for the Canucks in their own division might prevent them from cake walking to 1st or 2nd overall playoff spots in the West for a change, but I'm just not seeing major improvement changing things any time soon, nor do I think Yakupov alone will catapult you into playoff contention.
Last edited by No Fun Shogun: 04-11-2012 at 12:40 PM.
I've said it a few other times elsewhere, but I just don't have any faith in your organization to turn things around for the Oilers. Your team has managed to get the top picks in the draft as of late, but haven't done much beyond that and don't appear to be on the verge of doing so in the future.
How many said the same thing under a Wirtz/Pulford regime?
Here's the thing: no, Steve Tambellini is not the answer. Not a single Oilers fan would suggest he is. Yes, it WILL take a prodigious effort and a special GM to fix what needs to be fixed. But I'd argue that any manager who has ever won the Cup was that kind of person; without Tallon/Bowman, the Hawks go nowhere.
The fact of the matter is, Chicago came from further back as an organization and as a team to become Cup champs. It may take Hall, RNH, Eberle et al a couple of seasons- maybe even the rest of their ELCs- but the Oilers have the core in place to return to the post-season. They just need maturation and adjustments to get there.
How many said the same thing under a Wirtz/Pulford regime?
Here's the thing: no, Steve Tambellini is not the answer. Not a single Oilers fan would suggest he is. Yes, it WILL take a prodigious effort and a special GM to fix what needs to be fixed. But I'd argue that any manager who has ever won the Cup was that kind of person; without Tallon/Bowman, the Hawks go nowhere.
The fact of the matter is, Chicago came from further back as an organization and as a team to become Cup champs. It may take Hall, RNH, Eberle et al a couple of seasons- maybe even the rest of their ELCs- but the Oilers have the core in place to return to the post-season. They just need maturation and adjustments to get there.
Adjustments like 4 more defenseman, 4 more bottom
Six wingers, and a starting goalie.
EDM is really lucky. They still need more good pieces than those forwards. I don't see them getting those guys. Edmonton may shock the hockey world and sign Suter and make him the best paid DMan without thinking about consequences (spell?)
If Edmonton went hard after Suter AND traded one of Hall, RNH, or Yakupov for a really good puck mover they'd be in very good shape with some decent coaching. RNH is definitely my favorite up and coming prospect, that kid would look so good in a Hawks sweater.
Or, perhaps, Maybe they could get one good Dman and a veteran Selke Caliber forward to teach the youngsters how to get it done. I think Hossa has done more for Kane, Toews, Bolland, Sharp, and even Stalberg than we give him credit for. Watching a guy like that every game is a treat.
Adjustments like 4 more defenseman, 4 more bottom
Six wingers, and a starting goalie.
agreed to an extent.
the Oilers major issues are : lack of depth on the blueline, fading goaltending, and a crop of forwards that are too small and too similar to one another.
if the Oilers want to copy what the Hawks did, you have to go after size, and you have to land some highend defensive players...simple as that.
the Oilers cannot win with that small group of forwards, no matter how dynamic they may be. you guys have to get some size, and not just in the bottom six, but in your top six as well. the Hawks were able to throw Brouwer, Buff, Ladd at you in 2010, and Boston did the same thing as well..until you get bigger, you guys will get floored second half of the season when your smaller players wear down.
the Oilers definitely need around 3 defensemen as Petry and Schultz are about as good as you got (Ryan Whitney has been meh for me), so drafting Ryan Murray as the #1 or trading to move down to #2 or #3 is the most sensible solution for them.
goaltending can be found all over the place, and the past few cup winners and losers havent had what I would call elite goaltending..except for Timmy of course! and no...Luongo isnt elite in my book!!
the Oilers cant rely on Khabi any longer, he will not shoulder the load next year and beyond.
I dont think you guys can fix half of these problems next season and I likely see another bottom 6-8 finish for the Oilers again..
the Oilers will be fun to watch, but thats about all it will be imo.
I'm not seeing anything here the Oilers can't do. Say what you will about Tambellini, but Stu MacGregor is one of the best in the business and has added some premier talent since taking over in '08 (not coincidentally the year Eberle was taken).
The Oilers have certainly taken a different path to the above, but the end result can still be the same... in a couple of years. But think back to 2002: did anyone here know Keith would one day win the Norris? When you acquired Sharp, did you know he would become a 30-40 goal two-way force? I'm going to suggest no to both. Similarly, we don't know that Petry isn't Keith-lite.
In an interesting coincidence, they both played at MSU- and had similar numbers. Their careers run closely together.
Quote:
I dont think you guys can fix half of these problems next season and I likely see another bottom 6-8 finish for the Oilers again..
I'm certainly not refuting that. Where have I said the Oilers will make the dance next year? I haven't. But don't pretend like that's unusual; the Pens finished 2nd last with Sidney Crosby. Your own Hawks finished 20th in 2008 with Kane, Toews, Sharp, Byfuglien, Keith and Seabrook. It's a gradual process- I get that.
Here's what I expect: 20th-25th place next year, playoffs and a strong showing against a vet team the season after, WCF by 2015. I certainly don't think that's out of the realm of possibility. If you think so, I ask you to remember back to 2004/05- would you have told anyone you had a parade of NHL power forwards and defensive depth? No, and everyone would have laughed.
What it comes down to is this: IF the Oilers manage their assets with any degree of intelligence and take advantage of trades when they materialize, they will have a consistent supply of cheap depth in plug in around Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov. That's all they need to stay competitive, and your team has proven that.
Perhaps you've been living under a rock. Just to recap - Columbus made a huge splash in trading for Jeff Carter and then signed Wiz to a huge contract. It just didn't work out.
Oh really? Never heard.
Yes, I'm pretty sure Jeff Carter wasn't entirely thrilled about the trade (I remember reading/seeing this somewhere that he was enticed and convinced into believing it would go well playing with Nash et al, no I don't have a link) and Wisniewski was given a lengthy contract just to stay. Though, I guess having him long term is a lot better than Shawn Horcoff.
Even Columbus had difficulties, and with no actual prospects, they had no option. I "feel bad" for them too, but I thought they didn't want a Russian anyways? I guess they could package him with Nash or someone to get a bevy of established players. Edmonton has other options, and frankly, they tanked less than Montreal and Toronto did in the last little bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg
Okay, but let's look at where these players came from:
Marian Hossa- UFA
Brian Campbell- UFA
Antti Niemi- UFA
Andrew Ladd- Trade
Patrick Sharp- Trade
Kris Versteeg- Trade
I'm not seeing anything here the Oilers can't do. Say what you will about Tambellini, but Stu MacGregor is one of the best in the business and has added some premier talent since taking over in '08 (not coincidentally the year Eberle was taken).
The Oilers have certainly taken a different path to the above, but the end result can still be the same... in a couple of years. But think back to 2002: did anyone here know Keith would one day win the Norris? When you acquired Sharp, did you know he would become a 30-40 goal two-way force? I'm going to suggest no to both. Similarly, we don't know that Petry isn't Keith-lite.
In an interesting coincidence, they both played at MSU- and had similar numbers. Their careers run closely together.
I'm certainly not refuting that. Where have I said the Oilers will make the dance next year? I haven't. But don't pretend like that's unusual; the Pens finished 2nd last with Sidney Crosby. Your own Hawks finished 20th in 2008 with Kane, Toews, Sharp, Byfuglien, Keith and Seabrook. It's a gradual process- I get that.
Here's what I expect: 20th-25th place next year, playoffs and a strong showing against a vet team the season after, WCF by 2015. I certainly don't think that's out of the realm of possibility. If you think so, I ask you to remember back to 2004/05- would you have told anyone you had a parade of NHL power forwards and defensive depth? No, and everyone would have laughed.
What it comes down to is this: IF the Oilers manage their assets with any degree of intelligence and take advantage of trades when they materialize, they will have a consistent supply of cheap depth in plug in around Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov. That's all they need to stay competitive, and your team has proven that.
It's easy to hope and talk, but not all the players will pan out like the Hawks prospects did and there is no gurantee that you can sign a UFA like the Hawks could.
Who will be the leader of this team? Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yakupov won't be the same leader like Toews is
Who will be the shutdown Center? Horcoff or Gagner won't
Who will be the guy that knows how it feels to win the Cup/or come close to it? Hawks signed Madden, Hossa and Packer - added Pahlsson the year before to help the young guys
They'll trade that pick, move down, draft a defensemen and add some depth in the process.
and that's why you would never be a GM.
Rule #1 of drafting: NEVER, NEVER trade down from #1 to add depth if an elite prospect is available. And you ALWAYS take the BPA when picking #1 even if you are set at that postition.
Saad has had a better year than Yakupov... If you include Yakupov to your core in the future, we are allowed to have hopes for our prospect that could end up as good as NAil
Saad has had a better year than Yakupov... If you include Yakupov to your core in the future, we are allowed to have hopes for our prospect that could end up as good as NAil
Nail is younger....Saad was a sick pick up in the 2nd round though.
Nail is younger....Saad was a sick pick up in the 2nd round though.
yes he is, but in the end, it's not that Saad is 20 and an overager. If you can take Yakupov in the list of core guys, we could say the same about Saad
yes he is, but in the end, it's not that Saad is 20 and an overager. If you can take Yakupov in the list of core guys, we could say the same about Saad
Saad is not an overager and is still 19 years old. He is one year older than Nail, though.
I think it's been said before. We all love Saad as a prospect, but you just can't compare his talent and potential to Yakupov's.
Saad has had a better year than Yakupov... If you include Yakupov to your core in the future, we are allowed to have hopes for our prospect that could end up as good as NAil
