Agreed, but for peace of mind for the fans, and a general sense of "moving on" getting rid of Horocoff, even with the mild extended cap hit, would do wonders. Lifting a weight off, imo.
Trust me, I'm still hope/thinking about an amnesty clause, but even if there isn't, this is the right time to transition, not when the team gets to that next level, and the play will feel entitled to stay because of "time served" which I could certainly see happening.
Honestly, with our fans there’s always going to be one player every season that fans hate, and want out. Horcoffs contract is really just a scapegoat right now.
At first he wasn’t good enough to be a 1st or 2nd line player and was taking away minutes from our talented young players. Well now hes a 3rd line player.
His contract isn’t hurting us sign any players right now, and there isn’t a big UFA that his contract is preventing us from signing right now.
Go back to when a) his contract was signed, b) he was chosen as the captain. It was a landslide of people in favor of both moves.
Unless we are near the top of the NHL standings we are going to have struggling players and right now Horcoff gets the largest amount of the blame for our forwards. I’m not a Horcoff lover, or hater, and would I prefer it if he wasnt on the team next year? Yes. Is it terrible if he still is though? No. I’ve just been around this fan base and these boards enough to know its been _____ player in the past and it will be ______ player in the future.
Honestly, with our fans there’s always going to be one player every season that fans hate, and want out. Horcoffs contract is really just a scapegoat right now.
At first he wasn’t good enough to be a 1st or 2nd line player and was taking away minutes from our talented young players. Well now hes a 3rd line player.
His contract isn’t hurting us sign any players right now, and there isn’t a big UFA that his contract is preventing us from signing right now.
Go back to when a) his contract was signed, b) he was chosen as the captain. It was a landslide of people in favor of both moves.
Unless we are near the top of the NHL standings we are going to have struggling players and right now Horcoff gets the largest amount of the blame for our forwards. I’m not a Horcoff lover, or hater, and would I prefer it if he wasnt on the team next year? Yes. Is it terrible if he still is though? No. I’ve just been around this fan base and these boards enough to know its been _____ player in the past and it will be ______ player in the future.
No no, fair enough on your statements and if you read many of mine, you'll know I give Horcoff the benefit of the doubt a bit. However the thing about what Horcoff brings, it's pretty much replaceable. Stoll, Gaustad, maybe even McClement could bring pretty much what he does a lower cost and with a better understanding of their roles. You wouldn't be looking for a guy to have to take step back, you would have a guy come into a position he would be largely comfortable with already.
no silly.. by C i meant the C on the jersey ie captaincy.
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<---- getting close to 10000 I need something special as my 10,000th post... suggestions anyone???
No no, fair enough on your statements and if you read many of mine, you'll know I give Horcoff the benefit of the doubt a bit. However the thing about what Horcoff brings, it's pretty much replaceable. Stoll, Gaustad, maybe even McClement could bring pretty much what he does a lower cost and with a better understanding of their roles. You wouldn't be looking for a guy to have to take step back, you would have a guy come into a position he would be largely comfortable with already.
Agreed there as well. I probably would prefer any of those guys for our #3 spot probably. If it wasnt for the dollars that Horcoff makes, he would be fine vs any of those guys. They arent any better than he is really. But since we arent in cap hell at the moment I personally dont have issues with him being the #3 at the moment. Getting rid of another captain this quickly is a questionable move.
Horcoff obviously knows the direction we are going in. If management goes about it properly I dont think it will be a huge problem if Hall is given the C this summer. Horcoff I'm sure would still be happy to be on the team, as long as its presented properly. Trading or buying him out leaves a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.
Giving Hall the C and Horcoff an A >>>>> Buying out Horcoff, or trading Horcoff
I reworked the spreadsheet to figure out whether the Oilers would be in cap trouble with the additional of Yakupov.
Key assumptions.
- The average price for the "big 4" will be around $6m each.
- The Oilers acquire or sign a $4-5m defensemen this summer. Alternatively there is room to acquire a better player which can cost up to $7m. However, the spreadsheet assumes assumes depth. The two open positions on the backened in 2013-14 sum to $9m so most anything is workable.
- Horcoff's NMC is up after next season and is burried in the minors to fit the team under the cap. If no quality defensemen is acquired, or management has no intention of competing for a cup this can be delayed another year or two.
Let me know if there are any problems and I will change it. Based on cap structure, the Oilers best chance at a cup comes in 13-14 and 14-15 in my opinion.
I reworked the spreadsheet to figure out whether the Oilers would be in cap trouble with the additional of Yakupov.
Key assumptions.
- The average price for the "big 4" will be around $6m each.
- The Oilers acquire or sign a $4-5m defensemen this summer. Alternatively there is room to acquire a better player which can cost up to $7m. However, the spreadsheet assumes assumes depth. The two open positions on the backened in 2013-14 sum to $9m so most anything is workable.
- Horcoff's NMC is up after next season and is burried in the minors to fit the team under the cap. If no quality defensemen is acquired, or management has no intention of competing for a cup this can be delayed another year or two.
Let me know if there are any problems and I will change it. Based on cap structure, the Oilers best chance at a cup comes in 13-14 and 14-15 in my opinion.
wow.. lots of time on your hand I see..
Smid wont be making less then Petry. Whitney wont be making 5M.
My formula is that you put aside 20M for D and 5M for Goalies.
Rest you distribute between forwards.
getting the 4 kids at 6M each along with D and G gets you at 49M .. giving you ~15M to sign the other 8-10 forwards + PB players.
We will just have to go cheap on the 4th line and there should not be a problem unless the new CBA has more restrictions.
Smid wont be making less then Petry. Whitney wont be making 5M.
My formula is that you put aside 20M for D and 5M for Goalies.
Rest you distribute between forwards.
getting the 4 kids at 6M each along with D and G gets you at 49M .. giving you ~15M to sign the other 8-10 forwards + PB players.
We will just have to go cheap on the 4th line and there should not be a problem unless the new CBA has more restrictions.
Just realized Smid's contract ends 1 year sooner than on that img. However, I'm not so sure Smid will make more than Petry come 14-15 if Petry keeps progressing. A RH defensemen who is capable of 40 points would command 4-4.5 in free agency. He still has a ways to get there though. Orpik is the best comparable for Smid salary wise I can think of off the top of my head. I assumed Whitney is replaced with a better defensmen, not extended.
Smid wont be making less then Petry. Whitney wont be making 5M.
My formula is that you put aside 20M for D and 5M for Goalies.
Rest you distribute between forwards.
getting the 4 kids at 6M each along with D and G gets you at 49M .. giving you ~15M to sign the other 8-10 forwards + PB players.
We will just have to go cheap on the 4th line and there should not be a problem unless the new CBA has more restrictions.
Ya mine is that you spend 80% of the cap on top 6 six forwards, #3 C, top 4 D, and #1 goalie.
For instance this year that would mean about 51 million spent on those 12 positions and 15 million on the remaining 11 players including 3 pressbox players(2F, 1D) a backup goalie, and 5 3rd/4th line players.
That seems more than reasonable. I think that is a good salary structure. Especially if our top 2 lines get a combined 35-40 minutes of the game, 3rd line 11-14 , and 4th line about 8-10.
Just realized Smid's contract ends 1 year sooner than on that img. However, I'm not so sure Smid will make more than Petry come 14-15 if Petry keeps progressing. A RH defensemen who is capable of 40 points would command 4-4.5 in free agency. He still has a ways to get there though. Orpik is the best comparable for Smid salary wise I can think of off the top of my head. I assumed Whitney is replaced with a better defensmen, not extended.
Pretty good chart then... Only thing is that we are overspending on D.
Petry at 4.5 better be our top pairing Dman. If Smid and Schultz are also top 4 Dmen then we dont need a 5M and a 4M player. A bottom pairing Dman making 3M+ would not be good management.
Also by your chart (2015\16) all our 3rd liners would be making atleast 2.5M. 2.75M if its Hartikainen. Again not the best move especially when you have 4 game breakers in top6.
Free up #10 for Yaku, C for Hall and one year of contract.
You just have to make me post on this topic again..
About 2/3 way through the year Stauffer and Button were musing about oiler players and such and Stauffer brings out this gem. "Would you trade Horcoff to Montreal for Gomez and their 1st round pick? I wouldn't!" and Button agreed with him. (Montreal was picking 7th overall at that time and no he was not 'joking' when he said this.)
Ya mine is that you spend 80% of the cap on top 6 six forwards, #3 C, top 4 D, and #1 goalie.
For instance this year that would mean about 51 million spent on those 12 positions and 15 million on the remaining 11 players including 3 pressbox players(2F, 1D) a backup goalie, and 5 3rd/4th line players.
That seems more than reasonable. I think that is a good salary structure. Especially if our top 2 lines get a combined 35-40 minutes of the game, 3rd line 11-14 , and 4th line about 8-10.
This is just it. With how good our top two lines are going to be, we don't need to invest much in the bottom 6. It becomes a revolving door of well developed callups, and veterans on cheap deals looking to win a cup.
You just have to make me post on this topic again..
About 2/3 way through the year Stauffer and Button were musing about oiler players and such and Stauffer brings out this gem. "Would you trade Horcoff to Montreal for Gomez and their 1st round pick? I wouldn't!" and Button agreed with him. (Montreal was picking 7th overall at that time and no he was not 'joking' when he said this.)
Did you see the reasons I gave after the proposal?
I dont care for Stauffer and Button but I am sure this was discussed well before we won the lotto and Yakupov came into the picture.
It was also before there was any talk of Hall being a leader going forward.
It was also when MTL was selecting 7th and not 3rd
It was also before Horcoff's leadership was openly challenged ..
Gomez has 2 yrs left on his contract. Horcoff 3.
Read the post above this one for pretty much the general Oil fan stance on Horc.
I reworked the spreadsheet to figure out whether the Oilers would be in cap trouble with the additional of Yakupov.
Key assumptions.
- The average price for the "big 4" will be around $6m each.
- The Oilers acquire or sign a $4-5m defensemen this summer. Alternatively there is room to acquire a better player which can cost up to $7m. However, the spreadsheet assumes assumes depth. The two open positions on the backened in 2013-14 sum to $9m so most anything is workable.
- Horcoff's NMC is up after next season and is burried in the minors to fit the team under the cap. If no quality defensemen is acquired, or management has no intention of competing for a cup this can be delayed another year or two.
Let me know if there are any problems and I will change it. Based on cap structure, the Oilers best chance at a cup comes in 13-14 and 14-15 in my opinion.
We don't know what the new CBA will be but if you assume that the rules stay as they are the cap next year looks like it will be at $70M. Add in 4% growth which is conservative and you would have:
Cap
2012-2013 $70M
2013-2014 $72.5M
2014-2015 $75.1M
2015-2016 $77.7M
I suspect there will be some sort of role back on the % of HHr but it is too early to tell how this would be implemented.
The only way I see the cap going down is if a lower percentage of revenues is agreed to in the next CBA. And if that happened I am sure the NHL would insist on a matching drop in player's salaries so as to not screw every near cap team.
The only way I see the cap going down is if a lower percentage of revenues is agreed to in the next CBA. And if that happened I am sure the NHL would insist on a matching drop in player's salaries so as to not screw every near cap team.
I have to think that we will see a different split. The NHL players are getting more than any other salary cap sport in NA. NHL players have it quite good considering that NFL players can just be cut for any reason.
Is there any legitimacy to the rumors that the salary cap could decrease?
I don't see it myself.
The number we are hearing for revenue this year is $3.2B which would mean a cap increase of about $5.7M. That will actually happen on July 1 as the CBA does not expire until Sept 15.
The big question mark is how far the League might want to roll back the players share of HHR. It is currently at 57%. Here is the possible cap under various totals
if we assume the same $16M range.
So for the cap to drop the would have to get the % down to 51% or less. That will be a pretty big feat, and might risk a work stopage which I do not see the League wanting.
We may also see an slight expansion of the range. At $18M even 50% would see the same cap as last year. And that does not factor some additional items going into the HHR calculation.
Thinking outside of the box, I like it. But in all reality, for Benn, I think your almost at a one to one swap 1st for Benn. Even still, Benn is as untouchable as Hall or Eberle or RNH.
The NHLPA and Fehr won't allow a rollback to a 50/50 split, if thats the owners stance I'm sure we see a lockout/lost season.
more realistic is a 53/47 players/owners deal, No way the players union accepts a 7% swing from players to owners, especially with revenues growing the way they are.
If PHX returns to Quebec, revenue is going to get an even bigger shot in the arm.
Those TV deals will dry the F up if there is another lockout, owners are in the black for the most part under the current deal/revenue
Unlike pre-lockout where a large portion of teams were actually losing money due to the fact there was no cap to control spending.
the cap is going up IMO but by about half as much as current projections.
Why do you hate Hall?
I need something special as my 10,000th post... suggestions anyone???
<-- Credit goes to The Nemesis.
