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Old
04-13-2012, 10:08 AM
  #76
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
If you want to give Feaster credit for drafting Bartschi that is fine.

But it's easy to get younger when you give away veterans and draft picks to get unproven young players.

I am not impressed by any of his trades. He also did nothing at the deadline when there was already sign of trouble and the mandate was to make the playoff....look like a big failure to me.

This team needs a big change over not a little tweak and Feaster hasnt shown any ability or even courage to do it.

Good bye Jay.
He was given a team that didn't make the playoffs before he isn't allowed to trade the core at the deadline and wasn't willing to give up picks. What more did you want him to do?

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04-13-2012, 11:15 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
He was given a team that didn't make the playoffs before he isn't allowed to trade the core at the deadline and wasn't willing to give up picks. What more did you want him to do?
he could acquire Crosby for a 7th rounder and DFF would find some way to criticize it.

"his cap hit is too high"
"he's injury prone"
"he's getting older"

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04-13-2012, 01:45 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CoRD View Post
I'm looking at ownership and Ken King now. Iggy/Kipper sell tickets = they stay.

FML.
I am not absolving ownership of criticism - far from it.

However, as someone who actually buys season tickets, I completely disagree with this statement.

It might apply if tickets were being purchased by 10 year olds. But the people and the corporations that are cutting cheques are, IMO, more concerned with success and with entertainment value than they are with the particular names that are on the back of any of the jerseys.

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04-13-2012, 02:25 PM
  #79
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Darren Dreger ‏ @DarrenDreger
Brent Sutter will be Canada's head coach at the Mens World Hockey Championship. Muller and Boucher will assist.
Good for him.

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Old
04-13-2012, 04:45 PM
  #80
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Good for him.
I would laugh if Bouwmeester pulled out now

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04-13-2012, 05:03 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
He was given a team that didn't make the playoffs before he isn't allowed to trade the core at the deadline and wasn't willing to give up picks. What more did you want him to do?
For a guy who doesn't believe in "deficit spending", he sure gives up a lot of draft picks

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04-13-2012, 05:40 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
I'm not a flames fan or a Sutter fan, but the failures of the flames are all on Feaster.
I respectfully disagree. Darryl Sutter planted the seeds of this disaster when he was the GM. But who really knows. It sounds more and more like Ken King and ownership are the real ones pulling the strings and Feaster is pretty much a puppet. Regardless of who is to blame, the Flames are a mess with no apparent plan in place moving forward, or is that backwards.

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04-13-2012, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobs your uncle View Post
I respectfully disagree. Darryl Sutter planted the seeds of this disaster when he was the GM. But who really knows. It sounds more and more like Ken King and ownership are the real ones pulling the strings and Feaster is pretty much a puppet. Regardless of who is to blame, the Flames are a mess with no apparent plan in place moving forward, or is that backwards.
mod edit

As for no plan in place for the future I advise you to look at the progress of our 2010 and 2011 draft picks. Look up the fact we added a bunch of scouts and an AGM with a very very rich drafting history. The plan is to try and compete for the playoffs while rebuilding through the draft. For anyone that actually pays attention they would know this, but I suppose paying attention to the team that almost every one of the posts in your post history trashes would be too much to ask.


Last edited by Chairman Maouth: 04-13-2012 at 06:48 PM.
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04-13-2012, 06:28 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Bobs your uncle View Post
I respectfully disagree. Darryl Sutter planted the seeds of this disaster when he was the GM. But who really knows. It sounds more and more like Ken King and ownership are the real ones pulling the strings and Feaster is pretty much a puppet. Regardless of who is to blame, the Flames are a mess with no apparent plan in place moving forward, or is that backwards.
It pains me to say I agree. The Flames are going to be a world of hurt for a good long time moving forward. They are going to ride Iginla, and probably Kiprusoff, into the ground and get nothing for them. Thos will leave an even larger hole in the organization and make it that much more difficult to dig out of.

Like it or not, but Feaster ****ed up huge down the stretch. He didn't recognize this team was headed no where and made some terrible decisions. He wasted a contract on a piece of crap minor leaguer with no future, prevent him from making no cost deals or imbalanced ones. He chose to stand pat atthe deadline and not turn any of his UFAs into draft picks. This is stupid beyond belief. I don't care whether you only get 7th round picks for those expiring contracts, you make those deals. Those are draft picks you didn't have before and assets that you can use down the road. It was a 7th round draft pick (Holland) that sweetened the deal enough for Montreal to move Cammalleri and Ramo. Don't under estimate the value of draft picks if your scouting is capable. Feaster left a lot on the table and that will hurt the team down the road. The guy was lamenting that we are lacking in 22-27 year olds, but the way he's handling picks we'll have that same problem in four more years thanks to his mismanagement of assets at the deadline.

Look for Feaster and the Flames to make a big offer to Parise this summer and be rebuked. Watch for the same crap start. Watch for Feaster to do nothing with the over-priced vets who do nothing but under-achieve. Look for more of the same and the team being pased by both Edmonton and Colorado in the division next season as their top end youth continues to mature and our "core" moves another step toward retirement. "Fool me once" Feaster will be going for the trifecta come next deadline. Calgary and her fans deserve better.

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04-13-2012, 07:53 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by OrrwastheBeatles View Post
I am not absolving ownership of criticism - far from it.

However, as someone who actually buys season tickets, I completely disagree with this statement.

It might apply if tickets were being purchased by 10 year olds. But the people and the corporations that are cutting cheques are, IMO, more concerned with success and with entertainment value than they are with the particular names that are on the back of any of the jerseys.
Well basically my point was; Iggy and Kipper are IMO the ONLY reason this team was even borderline competitive last year - or competitive for the last 3-4 years - and that's why they stay. Those 2 guys alone (mostly Kipper) win games, so they stay.

That's how I see it anyways.

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04-13-2012, 08:17 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bobs your uncle View Post
I respectfully disagree. Darryl Sutter planted the seeds of this disaster when he was the GM. But who really knows. It sounds more and more like Ken King and ownership are the real ones pulling the strings and Feaster is pretty much a puppet. Regardless of who is to blame, the Flames are a mess with no apparent plan in place moving forward, or is that backwards.
I agree that it all started with D Sutter, but Feaster has done no better. I'm not saying fire Feaster, but to put this mess of a team on the shoulders of the coach is just wrong.

What's the flames' identity? Where do they go from here? Just plug along and wait for Iggy and Kypper to retire? Does anyone think they are a competitive team with a different coach?

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04-13-2012, 08:33 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
Look for Feaster and the Flames to make a big offer to Parise this summer and be rebuked. Watch for the same crap start. Watch for Feaster to do nothing with the over-priced vets who do nothing but under-achieve. Look for more of the same and the team being pased by both Edmonton and Colorado in the division next season as their top end youth continues to mature and our "core" moves another step toward retirement. "Fool me once" Feaster will be going for the trifecta come next deadline. Calgary and her fans deserve better.
I can really see this happening unfortunately. Maybe a small blip here in regards to maybe having a "better" season with fewer injuries but majority of is like looking into a future mirror.

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Old
04-13-2012, 08:47 PM
  #88
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I dreamed of Michel Therien last week. I really don't know why by the way... But I think he can be a good fit! Can live with star player, good with youngsters and can take the heat... He should be consider...

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04-13-2012, 08:54 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
mod edit

As for no plan in place for the future I advise you to look at the progress of our 2010 and 2011 draft picks. Look up the fact we added a bunch of scouts and an AGM with a very very rich drafting history. The plan is to try and compete for the playoffs while rebuilding through the draft. For anyone that actually pays attention they would know this, but I suppose paying attention to the team that almost every one of the posts in your post history trashes would be too much to ask.
Yeah. Young drama queens cutting their wrists at the fact that the owners didn't trade Kipper and Iggy at the deadline for draft picks, arrogantly thinking they know more than billion dollar businessmen who've been doing this **** for a couple of decades.

It's one thing to differ in opinion, it's another to wallow in self pity about the end of the world, accompanied by moody emo-rock encores with each pathetic post. All while 82 games will continue next year with an equal opportunity to make trades, to draft solid prospects, to inject youth into the line-up, and to surround the next generation with influential stars to pass the torch. But all this adolescent *****ing from the usual personnel makes me wonder, sometimes, if they've ever posted a cheer for this team....

Personally, I think Baertschi could use a Iginla to show him the ropes during his rookie campaign. Personally, I thought Kipper was great at mentoring Irving. But hey, maybe I'm just too old to see the glass how it really is, half empty apparently.

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04-14-2012, 12:12 AM
  #90
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To me, Feaster appears to be the fall guy here. The fact is, more and more information is coming out that the owners and King are dictating what is happening behind the scenes with this team. This whole Brent Sutter thing only proves that theory more. Its quite apparent that Brent wanted change with the roster next season, its apparent that Feaster and Sutter got along quite well, and if I was betting man I think Feaster wanted to have Sutter back next season. I think after the meeting that Brent and Feaster had, it was stated to Brent that the changes he wanted to see were not going to happen, so both parties decided to part ways. I don't think the owners priority is to ice a championship team, I think their priority is to ice a competitive team and sell tickets.

Regarding the dismissal of our coach, I think Iggy will be staying in Calgary next season so I think it is the right move. I think Iggy is more than capable of being a productive player in this league for a while yet, but I think he needs to play in a more complimentive system, that has an open style.

I am not happy with what appears to be going on with the Flames, I think it is utter BS. Its an 'Old Boys' up there in the upper office and they are doing a disservice to the fans of this city. And its to bad, this city is so rich that people will support the team no matter what. The only way significant change will come about is if attendence goes down. No one up there is listening to what the fans want, they are just doing as they please.

I am not calling for a full scale rebuild, or even that Iggy needs to be traded. But this G** damn formula is proven it doesn't work and its time for change. I think the Flames need to follow what the Sens did last year. I don't know what I'm going to do if pretty much the same core is brought back next year. I really believe Feaster's hands are tied to an extent, I'm not really sure how much change will even be allowed to occur.

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04-14-2012, 12:23 AM
  #91
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Does this mean a rebuild is in order ?

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04-14-2012, 12:43 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
To me, Feaster appears to be the fall guy here. The fact is, more and more information is coming out that the owners and King are dictating what is happening behind the scenes with this team. This whole Brent Sutter thing only proves that theory more. Its quite apparent that Brent wanted change with the roster next season, its apparent that Feaster and Sutter got along quite well, and if I was betting man I think Feaster wanted to have Sutter back next season. I think after the meeting that Brent and Feaster had, it was stated to Brent that the changes he wanted to see were not going to happen, so both parties decided to part ways. I don't think the owners priority is to ice a championship team, I think their priority is to ice a competitive team and sell tickets.

Regarding the dismissal of our coach, I think Iggy will be staying in Calgary next season so I think it is the right move. I think Iggy is more than capable of being a productive player in this league for a while yet, but I think he needs to play in a more complimentive system, that has an open style.

I am not happy with what appears to be going on with the Flames, I think it is utter BS. Its an 'Old Boys' up there in the upper office and they are doing a disservice to the fans of this city. And its to bad, this city is so rich that people will support the team no matter what. The only way significant change will come about is if attendence goes down. No one up there is listening to what the fans want, they are just doing as they please.

I am not calling for a full scale rebuild, or even that Iggy needs to be traded. But this G** damn formula is proven it doesn't work and its time for change. I think the Flames need to follow what the Sens did last year. I don't know what I'm going to do if pretty much the same core is brought back next year. I really believe Feaster's hands are tied to an extent, I'm not really sure how much change will even be allowed to occur.
You hit the nail right on the head

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04-14-2012, 01:51 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
To me, Feaster appears to be the fall guy here. The fact is, more and more information is coming out that the owners and King are dictating what is happening behind the scenes with this team. This whole Brent Sutter thing only proves that theory more. Its quite apparent that Brent wanted change with the roster next season, its apparent that Feaster and Sutter got along quite well, and if I was betting man I think Feaster wanted to have Sutter back next season. I think after the meeting that Brent and Feaster had, it was stated to Brent that the changes he wanted to see were not going to happen, so both parties decided to part ways. I don't think the owners priority is to ice a championship team, I think their priority is to ice a competitive team and sell tickets.

Regarding the dismissal of our coach, I think Iggy will be staying in Calgary next season so I think it is the right move. I think Iggy is more than capable of being a productive player in this league for a while yet, but I think he needs to play in a more complimentive system, that has an open style.

I am not happy with what appears to be going on with the Flames, I think it is utter BS. Its an 'Old Boys' up there in the upper office and they are doing a disservice to the fans of this city. And its to bad, this city is so rich that people will support the team no matter what. The only way significant change will come about is if attendence goes down. No one up there is listening to what the fans want, they are just doing as they please.

I am not calling for a full scale rebuild, or even that Iggy needs to be traded. But this G** damn formula is proven it doesn't work and its time for change. I think the Flames need to follow what the Sens did last year. I don't know what I'm going to do if pretty much the same core is brought back next year. I really believe Feaster's hands are tied to an extent, I'm not really sure how much change will even be allowed to occur.
I have a few comments about this, but I'm not particularly attacking you MVW. You're good stuff and all, but you and others have recently attacked the ownership about this whole deal.

1) Who in their right mind would let Feaster have an unlimited pass to a multi-million dollar business after knowing the guy for 2 years. The ownership would be pretty incompetent to just let their million dollar business be flipped over by a complete stranger. I think Feaster has just as much power as Daryll Sutter had, unless of course Daryll (or now Feaster) decided one afternoon to trade away all players for draft picks and lose 82 hockey games each season for the next half a decade. C'mon. These are business men and this a million dollar business. Of course Feaster can't make decisions about that kind of a rebuild.

2) I truly beleive they don't give a rats ass what the fans want. I know I wouldn't. Do you think Suncor is listening to what Albertans want? No. They'll bulldoze a herd of baby endangered deer if it meant making a buck. So what makes you think this ownership group is any different? Money makes the world go round (in economic paradigm).

3) Of course ownership wants a championship team. Who gets into this business to not maximize profits? If there was one way to win a championship, everybody would be doing it. I think we're seeing a "remodeling" right now, and ownership is going to try this way to see if it's successful. Businessmen like inovation, and instead of following the status quo "rebuild" model, maybe they're on to something here with a combination of youth injection while carrying a veteran core. It seems to be working for the Sens so far...

Or maybe ownership simply haven't saved up enough for the rainy days ahead during a rebuild. Maybe if the owners did what everyone is asking for, they might have to belly up if things go a little off schedule and take Columbus-long at winning a cup. Maybe they're preparing for the worst case scenario, and because they're doing that, we'll get keep our team when things get bad. Remember, there was once a time when we almost lost the Calgary Flames...

Let me be clear. I would prefer a championship team over perpetual 9th to 11th place finishes. I have my opinions how I feel it should be done, and reasons why, while others have theirs. I can't blame the owners for not wanting (if applicable) to go about certain routes to a Stanley Cup, but most importantly, I certaintly can't blame them for preventing Feaster from making certain rash decisions without approval first.

I will, however, cheer for this team. I'm not ***** about every single transaction (again, not attacking you MVW) because I'm not a stubborn facist who's fixated on one idea, and I'm not going to start cheering for another team. Although I would love it if certain other posters started cheering for other teams, then I don't have to be reminded on "how this organization sucks" every day.

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04-14-2012, 01:51 AM
  #94
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No more Sutters!?



Cant wait to see who replaces him?

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04-14-2012, 02:31 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
To me, Feaster appears to be the fall guy here. The fact is, more and more information is coming out that the owners and King are dictating what is happening behind the scenes with this team. This whole Brent Sutter thing only proves that theory more. Its quite apparent that Brent wanted change with the roster next season, its apparent that Feaster and Sutter got along quite well, and if I was betting man I think Feaster wanted to have Sutter back next season. I think after the meeting that Brent and Feaster had, it was stated to Brent that the changes he wanted to see were not going to happen, so both parties decided to part ways. I don't think the owners priority is to ice a championship team, I think their priority is to ice a competitive team and sell tickets.

Regarding the dismissal of our coach, I think Iggy will be staying in Calgary next season so I think it is the right move. I think Iggy is more than capable of being a productive player in this league for a while yet, but I think he needs to play in a more complimentive system, that has an open style.

I am not happy with what appears to be going on with the Flames, I think it is utter BS. Its an 'Old Boys' up there in the upper office and they are doing a disservice to the fans of this city. And its to bad, this city is so rich that people will support the team no matter what. The only way significant change will come about is if attendence goes down. No one up there is listening to what the fans want, they are just doing as they please.

I am not calling for a full scale rebuild, or even that Iggy needs to be traded. But this G** damn formula is proven it doesn't work and its time for change. I think the Flames need to follow what the Sens did last year. I don't know what I'm going to do if pretty much the same core is brought back next year. I really believe Feaster's hands are tied to an extent, I'm not really sure how much change will even be allowed to occur.
So you think if Iggy is staying, it's the right move.

But you don't think it's possible that Feaster came to the same decision rationally? That he must be being set up as the fall guy for the 'old boys club'?

I find it hilarious that, for years, fans were praising the ownership as willing to spend, caring about the community, keeping their noses out of the day-to-day businesss, etc etc

Now, when the team isn't doing what they want, fans are claiming conspiracies and evil, uncaring manipulations from an old boys club.

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04-14-2012, 06:57 AM
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I have a few comments about this, but I'm not particularly attacking you MVW. You're good stuff and all, but you and others have recently attacked the ownership about this whole deal.

1) Who in their right mind would let Feaster have an unlimited pass to a multi-million dollar business after knowing the guy for 2 years. The ownership would be pretty incompetent to just let their million dollar business be flipped over by a complete stranger. I think Feaster has just as much power as Daryll Sutter had, unless of course Daryll (or now Feaster) decided one afternoon to trade away all players for draft picks and lose 82 hockey games each season for the next half a decade. C'mon. These are business men and this a million dollar business. Of course Feaster can't make decisions about that kind of a rebuild.

2) I truly beleive they don't give a rats ass what the fans want. I know I wouldn't. Do you think Suncor is listening to what Albertans want? No. They'll bulldoze a herd of baby endangered deer if it meant making a buck. So what makes you think this ownership group is any different? Money makes the world go round (in economic paradigm).

3) Of course ownership wants a championship team. Who gets into this business to not maximize profits? If there was one way to win a championship, everybody would be doing it. I think we're seeing a "remodeling" right now, and ownership is going to try this way to see if it's successful. Businessmen like inovation, and instead of following the status quo "rebuild" model, maybe they're on to something here with a combination of youth injection while carrying a veteran core. It seems to be working for the Sens so far...

Or maybe ownership simply haven't saved up enough for the rainy days ahead during a rebuild. Maybe if the owners did what everyone is asking for, they might have to belly up if things go a little off schedule and take Columbus-long at winning a cup. Maybe they're preparing for the worst case scenario, and because they're doing that, we'll get keep our team when things get bad. Remember, there was once a time when we almost lost the Calgary Flames...

Let me be clear. I would prefer a championship team over perpetual 9th to 11th place finishes. I have my opinions how I feel it should be done, and reasons why, while others have theirs. I can't blame the owners for not wanting (if applicable) to go about certain routes to a Stanley Cup, but most importantly, I certaintly can't blame them for preventing Feaster from making certain rash decisions without approval first.

I will, however, cheer for this team. I'm not ***** about every single transaction (again, not attacking you MVW) because I'm not a stubborn facist who's fixated on one idea, and I'm not going to start cheering for another team. Although I would love it if certain other posters started cheering for other teams, then I don't have to be reminded on "how this organization sucks" every day.
Excellent post. Absolutely Fantastic.

And I would like to expand on the 2 bolded pieces.

I will start with the 2nd bold section. About saving for the rainy day, it could very well be true, however we have to remember we are trying to save for a new arena (and now football stadium, however with this we bring in the Stampeders profits too) as well as running a hockey team. The last thing ownership/management needs while trying to secure all the funding for a downtown arena & stadium is for the franchise to be a financial black hole and a full scale rebuild will do that in my estimation.

Now to your 1st point that I put into bold. I agree 100%. And you only have to look at our drafting the past 2 years to have hope that this this team is on the verge of finding a diamond in the rough. I have brought it up in other threads but I will go into more detail here as it seems like a good way to expand your awesome post.

Let's start with our 2010 draft, no 1st round pick or 2nd round pick. And we come up with these picks:
  • 3rd Round: Max Reinhart - Last years WHL playoff MVP IMO, I know he never won it officially but it had to have been extremely close. This year on a bad team Max led the way with the Ice and put up 78 points in 61 games, he is also a very hard working player with an excellent 2-way game. If genetics are a factor he comes from good lineage, as his dad was an excellent NHL defenseman and it looks like his 2 younger brother have an amazing future as well.
  • 3rd Round: Joey Leach - Key cog in the Ice's Memorial Cup run and by all accounts their #1 defenseman this season. Joey is a 6'4 giant that is still growing into his frame, he is a stay at home defenseman that is decent with the puck.
  • 4th Round: John Ramage - Now a former captain of the US World Junior squad and current captain of the Wisconsin Badgers (named as a Junior). Right handed stay at home defenseman with never say die attitude. Perhaps a smaller version of Sarich. And like Max if lineage matters, Ramage is the son of 15 year stay at home defenseman Rob Ramage.
  • 4th Round: Bill Arnold - He won't wow you with his hand or his feet. But he competes hard every shift of every game. Always wins battles along the boards and is always noticable due to his ability to force turnover in the neutral zone. Excellent penalty killer who has the makings of being an excellent checking line center.
  • 5th Round: Michael Ferland - When he was drafted he was coming off a 9 goal, 28 point rookie season. Since then he has only developed into a 47 goal and 96 point power forward.
  • 7th Round: Patrick Holland - He has been traded in the Bourque/Cammalleri deal but this 7th rounder only put up 84 assists in the WHL this year. Not bad for a 7th.

Now for the 2011 draft:
  • 1st round: Sven Baertschi - 3 goals in 5 NHL during the the toughest part of the NHL schedule. 2 points per game for the WInterhawks and a mere 19 points in 8 playoff games so far this year. Kid by all accounts appears to be a stud.
  • 2nd Round: Markus Granlund - 34 points in 47 games in Finland's top tier, which was good for 37th in league scoring as a rookie. To put his production into perspective for comparisons sake, Joel Armia the 1st round pick finished with only 4 more points but played 7 more games.
  • 2nd Round: Tyler Wotherspoon - stay at home top 4 defenseman in one of the top CHL teams. His role will expand further next year
  • 4th Round: Johnny Gaudreau - what can we say about him? He has incredible hands and feet. His drive to compete is 2nd to none, he wins puck battles, he dances around defensemen like a stripper does her pole. 44 points in 44 games as a FRESHMAN and only won MVP of the Beanpot Tournement and the Hockey East Championships. Oh and all this kid does is win. 2010-11 He led the Fighting Saints to the USHL Championship, 2011-12 he helped Lead the Boston College Eagles to a national championship.
  • 5th Round: Laurent Brossoit - Probably the least talked about Flames prospect. He seemed like a bit of a head scratcher in the 5th round, had played 34 games as a rookie for the Oil Kings and had a .32gaa and .887sv%, but as he took over the reigns as the #1 in Edmonton we started seeing an improvement. 42-13-5 record, 2.47gaa, .914sv%. Now after 8 games (and 2 sweeps) Laurent is 8-0 with a 1.50gaa and .941sv%. His numbers have been comparable to Bunz who is consider a top goaltender prospect in the WHL.

While some of those kids won't turn out, you have to be blind to not see some potential there and recognize that the drafting is improved. If we keep drafting the way we have there is no reason this think either one of these guys (my money is on Gaudeau ) or a pick in the near future will turn into a gem.

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04-14-2012, 01:15 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I have a few comments about this, but I'm not particularly attacking you MVW. You're good stuff and all, but you and others have recently attacked the ownership about this whole deal.

1) Who in their right mind would let Feaster have an unlimited pass to a multi-million dollar business after knowing the guy for 2 years. The ownership would be pretty incompetent to just let their million dollar business be flipped over by a complete stranger. I think Feaster has just as much power as Daryll Sutter had, unless of course Daryll (or now Feaster) decided one afternoon to trade away all players for draft picks and lose 82 hockey games each season for the next half a decade. C'mon. These are business men and this a million dollar business. Of course Feaster can't make decisions about that kind of a rebuild.
No worries bro, there's alot of **** going on with this team right now and there's no reason why people can't have a healthy debate without flipping their tops on each other. With your first point, I kind of disagree. I think Darryl had alot of freedom in his time here, I say this because he was always one of the most active GM's in the league. He had been on record saying that he always had the owners support in whatever transaction he wanted. This was Darrly's team and he ran it the way he saw fit. With Feaster, this hasn't been quite the same case. Even when Darryl was let go, Feaster was named "in-term" GM. Feaster said he had to put forth a proposal forward to the owners and King for approval in regards to the direction he wanted the team to go in, Sutter never had to do this once. Feaster commented all season about how transactions were going to be made, guys were going to be moved out, and really in the end Bourque was the only guy that was moved. I think deadline day has to be viewed as a failure. I don't argue with your logic about a GM not having complete control (because you are right there), but to me I don't think there is any question that Darryl had more control than Feaster over this team. And I think the reason is because of the way Darryl ran it, is probably why.


Quote:
2) I truly beleive they don't give a rats ass what the fans want. I know I wouldn't. Do you think Suncor is listening to what Albertans want? No. They'll bulldoze a herd of baby endangered deer if it meant making a buck. So what makes you think this ownership group is any different? Money makes the world go round (in economic paradigm).
Agree 100%. But it is a problem, the fans are the ones making the owners rich and paying the players wages. If they continue ignore the fans wishes, there is going to eventually be a disconnect between our fanbase and the team (and not all teams are ran this way). Look at what happened when Federik was running the Stamps. I'm not saying the Flames owners are anywhere near that level, but it does seem that they are ignoring what the city is asking for and that is a team that is capable of competing for the Cup. This team clearly isn't close.

Quote:
3) Of course ownership wants a championship team. Who gets into this business to not maximize profits? If there was one way to win a championship, everybody would be doing it. I think we're seeing a "remodeling" right now, and ownership is going to try this way to see if it's successful. Businessmen like inovation, and instead of following the status quo "rebuild" model, maybe they're on to something here with a combination of youth injection while carrying a veteran core. It seems to be working for the Sens so far...
I think Feaster is doing the very best he can with the cards he has been dealt. And I commend him thus far. He has cut payroll, made the team younger, and kept his word on injecting some youth. With that said, I truly believe (and I am speculating) that Brent left because Feaster relayed to him that certain changes were not going to be made in order to improve this club. I agree of course our owners would want to win a championship, but I don't think they are prepared to do what is necessary in the short term to get there.

Quote:
Or maybe ownership simply haven't saved up enough for the rainy days ahead during a rebuild. Maybe if the owners did what everyone is asking for, they might have to belly up if things go a little off schedule and take Columbus-long at winning a cup. Maybe they're preparing for the worst case scenario, and because they're doing that, we'll get keep our team when things get bad. Remember, there was once a time when we almost lost the Calgary Flames...

Let me be clear. I would prefer a championship team over perpetual 9th to 11th place finishes. I have my opinions how I feel it should be done, and reasons why, while others have theirs. I can't blame the owners for not wanting (if applicable) to go about certain routes to a Stanley Cup, but most importantly, I certaintly can't blame them for preventing Feaster from making certain rash decisions without approval first.
This I won't debate with you over. This indeed may be the case, although there is no way for anyone to be certain without inside information. Of course I will always cheer for the Flames, and of course I would ALWAYS prefer to be a fringe playoff team over having no team. And let me be clear, I DO NOT want a full scale rebuild either. I think given the circumstances that Iginla should remain a Flame and resign an extension. I do however think this team needs major fundamental change to completely reshape the look of this franchise. Again, I would keep Iginla (comparable to Alfy) and probably Cammy, Bouwmeester and Glencross and trade everyone else away except our young players for draft picks and prospects. All the in between fillers on our roster can be replaced thru FA. Next year may be painful, but I think the year after this team would be competing for a playoff spot. This city has lots of money to be a cap team, we have some good young players coming up ready for roles, I see reason why we can't turn this around in 2-3 seasons.

Quote:
I will, however, cheer for this team. I'm not ***** about every single transaction (again, not attacking you MVW) because I'm not a stubborn facist who's fixated on one idea, and I'm not going to start cheering for another team. Although I would love it if certain other posters started cheering for other teams, then I don't have to be reminded on "how this organization sucks" every day.
I'm not attacking you at all either, its healthy to have debate and open discussion. I totally respect you and inparticular your last post. You made a ton of valid and good points. I'm not a conspiracy theorist either lol, but I do think the owners need to let a GM run a team and stay out of his business. I think they should be consulted before a major tranaction is going to be made for their approval, but they should trust the GM's vision of how to run the team, otherwise they should find someone else.

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04-14-2012, 01:52 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
No worries bro, there's alot of **** going on with this team right now and there's no reason why people can't have a healthy debate without flipping their tops on each other. With your first point, I kind of disagree. I think Darryl had alot of freedom in his time here, I say this because he was always one of the most active GM's in the league. He had been on record saying that he always had the owners support in whatever transaction he wanted. This was Darrly's team and he ran it the way he saw fit. With Feaster, this hasn't been quite the same case. Even when Darryl was let go, Feaster was named "in-term" GM. Feaster said he had to put forth a proposal forward to the owners and King for approval in regards to the direction he wanted the team to go in, Sutter never had to do this once. Feaster commented all season about how transactions were going to be made, guys were going to be moved out, and really in the end Bourque was the only guy that was moved. I think deadline day has to be viewed as a failure. I don't argue with your logic about a GM not having complete control (because you are right there), but to me I don't think there is any question that Darryl had more control than Feaster over this team. And I think the reason is because of the way Darryl ran it, is probably why.




Agree 100%. But it is a problem, the fans are the ones making the owners rich and paying the players wages. If they continue ignore the fans wishes, there is going to eventually be a disconnect between our fanbase and the team (and not all teams are ran this way). Look at what happened when Federik was running the Stamps. I'm not saying the Flames owners are anywhere near that level, but it does seem that they are ignoring what the city is asking for and that is a team that is capable of competing for the Cup. This team clearly isn't close.



I think Feaster is doing the very best he can with the cards he has been dealt. And I commend him thus far. He has cut payroll, made the team younger, and kept his word on injecting some youth. With that said, I truly believe (and I am speculating) that Brent left because Feaster relayed to him that certain changes were not going to be made in order to improve this club. I agree of course our owners would want to win a championship, but I don't think they are prepared to do what is necessary in the short term to get there.



This I won't debate with you over. This indeed may be the case, although there is no way for anyone to be certain without inside information. Of course I will always cheer for the Flames, and of course I would ALWAYS prefer to be a fringe playoff team over having no team. And let me be clear, I DO NOT want a full scale rebuild either. I think given the circumstances that Iginla should remain a Flame and resign an extension. I do however think this team needs major fundamental change to completely reshape the look of this franchise. Again, I would keep Iginla (comparable to Alfy) and probably Cammy, Bouwmeester and Glencross and trade everyone else away except our young players for draft picks and prospects. All the in between fillers on our roster can be replaced thru FA. Next year may be painful, but I think the year after this team would be competing for a playoff spot. This city has lots of money to be a cap team, we have some good young players coming up ready for roles, I see reason why we can't turn this around in 2-3 seasons.



I'm not attacking you at all either, its healthy to have debate and open discussion. I totally respect you and inparticular your last post. You made a ton of valid and good points. I'm not a conspiracy theorist either lol, but I do think the owners need to let a GM run a team and stay out of his business. I think they should be consulted before a major tranaction is going to be made for their approval, but they should trust the GM's vision of how to run the team, otherwise they should find someone else.
All good points. I think you and I have more things in common than not as to how this team should move going forward, so I'm not going to rebuttle every little difference we have. And again, I used your post as more of a catalyst to address a floating idea around here than to actually rebuttle your personal ideas. You always have consistent and logical posts, so I respectfully apologize for what probably appeared to be a viscous attack on your post, when I should have been rebuttling all other posts that I was addrressing.

I too think that certain people who are qualified and experienced should not have a noose around their neck while doing their job, as people need the room to their job effectively. But Sutter was here for 7 years, and although I don't completely remember all 7 years, I do seem to remember him being more active and inpatient during the later years here was here. Maybe Feaster will be given the same level of trust and freedom once he displays consistency and earns some seniority.

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04-14-2012, 03:20 PM
  #99
Johnny Hoxville
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
All good points. I think you and I have more things in common than not as to how this team should move going forward, so I'm not going to rebuttle every little difference we have. And again, I used your post as more of a catalyst to address a floating idea around here than to actually rebuttle your personal ideas. You always have consistent and logical posts, so I respectfully apologize for what probably appeared to be a viscous attack on your post, when I should have been rebuttling all other posts that I was addrressing.

I too think that certain people who are qualified and experienced should not have a noose around their neck while doing their job, as people need the room to their job effectively. But Sutter was here for 7 years, and although I don't completely remember all 7 years, I do seem to remember him being more active and inpatient during the later years here was here. Maybe Feaster will be given the same level of trust and freedom once he displays consistency and earns some seniority.
Seriously, no worries. I didn't take it that way at all either. I consider you one of my friends on this site, and I thought your post was well thought out and respectful. There's no way everyone is going to be in agreement on every topic on here, and thats what is cool about all this. I like reading what others share and their views, it helps everyone make more informed opinions.

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04-14-2012, 03:59 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by SUOMI View Post
I dreamed of Michel Therien last week. I really don't know why by the way... But I think he can be a good fit! Can live with star player, good with youngsters and can take the heat... He should be consider...
I'd be alright with that.

Really, I just want new blood. I don't want Sutters, ex flames (ie connie), or old coaching styles.

We need someone to come in here, and implement a good system that works with our players.

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