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Would you be upset if the new GM did a rebuild?

View Poll Results: Would you be upset?
Yes, I want to win now and feel this core is a contender 57 34.55%
No, I am not opposed to a philosophy change. 108 65.45%
Voters: 165. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-12-2012, 11:54 AM
  #101
29dryden29
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Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
And why exactly would the Canucks do Schneider+ for Price when they have Luongo? Don't say they'll trade Luongo, because then they could just keep Schneider.
Honestly I do not believe they would trade Luongo I am just saying Schneider would be a viable option or even a Quick plus for Price hell I would send them Price and Tinordi for Quick or even Bernier and some pieces.

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04-12-2012, 11:54 AM
  #102
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Let's not use sappy terms like philosophy and just make intelligent, meaningful moves. Gainey had a master plan that didn't work and he didn't reduce the age of the team when he brought in Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gill, and Spacek. Even if that group had worked out better the Habs would be mediocre instead of inferior.

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04-14-2012, 12:08 AM
  #103
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On a somewhat related note. If we ever targeted players for a new vision, what type of player fits your vision as a cornerstone piece to add? Or, in other words, out of your list of needs, what is the first you'd target.

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04-14-2012, 12:20 AM
  #104
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
On a somewhat related note. If we ever targeted players for a new vision, what type of player fits your vision as a cornerstone piece to add? Or, in other words, out of your list of needs, what is the first you'd target.
Elite Center

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04-14-2012, 12:24 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Elite Center
Not counting the Getzlaf/Staal choices which are obvious, anyone you have in mind?

I've always been a fan of Duchene, mind you not elite, but all the tools to be a #1 center and the same age of our core. That's one of my "not as common" picks.

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04-14-2012, 12:24 AM
  #106
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I would also question a re-build!

#1 Were not Edmonton or Columbus! Hell with them.....

#2 We actually have a core, you can't tell me that with Subban/Price/Gorges/Pax & a few good years of Cole that we can't build around that! Edmonton has been getting #1 picks 3 years straight were are they oh yeah! Still last!

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04-14-2012, 12:26 AM
  #107
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I would also question a re-build!

#1 Were not Edmonton or Columbus! Hell with them.....

#2 We actually have a core, you can't tell me that with Subban/Price/Gorges/Pax & a few good years of Cole that we can't build around that! Edmonton has been getting #1 picks 3 years straight were are they oh yeah! Still last!
I find it hard to imagine the habs have the assets in stock to push for the missing piece without sacrificing the future.

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04-14-2012, 12:31 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I find it hard to imagine the habs have the assets in stock to push for the missing piece without sacrificing the future.
That's where a clever GM is important. Pollack ruled Montreal, in 2012 it's harder, but not impossible.

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04-14-2012, 12:37 AM
  #109
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That's where a clever GM is important. Pollack ruled Montreal, in 2012 it's harder, but not impossible.
I don't disagree, but turnover is required. Rebuild doesn't necessarily mean destroying the team. You can rebuild a philosophy, image, style, or vision.

I think you gotta build a strong core before you can get vets. While our core is above average and good. I think the core is missing a #1 Center. If the core included a #1 center I would never think of retooling.

So the question is, do you attempt using a core thats missing a key ingredient and hoping for the best or sell off some depth and flip the assets for that extra piece and even if we're lacking depth for a season or two, worth it in long run imo. If you hope for the best, high pick and tanking aside, you end up slowing down the process and your young core is no longer young.

The idea is to retool to build a young core that's perrenial contenders. Not windows of opportunity every now and then.

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04-14-2012, 09:29 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Not counting the Getzlaf/Staal choices which are obvious, anyone you have in mind?

I've always been a fan of Duchene, mind you not elite, but all the tools to be a #1 center and the same age of our core. That's one of my "not as common" picks.
My hope is that we draft him this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPac67 View Post
I would also question a re-build!

#1 Were not Edmonton or Columbus! Hell with them.....

#2 We actually have a core, you can't tell me that with Subban/Price/Gorges/Pax & a few good years of Cole that we can't build around that! Edmonton has been getting #1 picks 3 years straight were are they oh yeah! Still last!
They're last... for now. That won't last.

They've got a long way to go before they're a good team (and they've got incompetent management that makes me question how good they will be) but a they've got an incredible core to build around. If they take Yakupov this draft and then start trading guys like Hemsky or Paajarvi or other young forwards for young bluliners they could be very scary down the line. Maybe they could do a Paajarvi or a Gagner for Johnathan Bernier...

People used to make fun of the Pens, Caps and Hawks too man. Go look back at some of those posts and have a laugh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I don't disagree, but turnover is required. Rebuild doesn't necessarily mean destroying the team. You can rebuild a philosophy, image, style, or vision.

I think you gotta build a strong core before you can get vets. While our core is above average and good. I think the core is missing a #1 Center. If the core included a #1 center I would never think of retooling.

So the question is, do you attempt using a core thats missing a key ingredient and hoping for the best or sell off some depth and flip the assets for that extra piece and even if we're lacking depth for a season or two, worth it in long run imo. If you hope for the best, high pick and tanking aside, you end up slowing down the process and your young core is no longer young.

The idea is to retool to build a young core that's perrenial contenders. Not windows of opportunity every now and then.
I think we're not that far off. We've got a lot of good pieces in place already and some decent depth coming up on the blueline in the next couple of years. One more year of rebuild... that's it. Deal Pleks, deal Gionta (it can be at the deadline) and then get a couple of good picks at next years' draft. Add it to what we have and we could be in really good shape for the next several years. Then we can look at adding UFAs down the line and actually maybe even trading away some picks to get final pieces when we're actually contenders. We're not there yet though. Quick fixes won't help, they will hurt. We just need to be patient a while longer and we'll have the building blocks in place.

What really bothers me right now is that we're starting to waste some great years from Price. That's exactly what I was worried about when we made those stupid moves three years ago. In that span we've wasted Pleks and now we're on our way to wasting Price. Don't want a repeat of those old mistakes. Just spend a year rebuilding and we'll be in good shape for a long time.

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04-14-2012, 09:31 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Not counting the Getzlaf/Staal choices which are obvious, anyone you have in mind?

I've always been a fan of Duchene, mind you not elite, but all the tools to be a #1 center and the same age of our core. That's one of my "not as common" picks.
And not a bad idea either...

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04-14-2012, 09:58 AM
  #112
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And not a bad idea either...
Only thing is that Duchene won't be dealt. I don't see it happening anyway.

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04-14-2012, 10:03 AM
  #113
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Only thing is that Duchene won't be dealt. I don't see it happening anyway.
I don't know... they just re-signed Sacco for a few years and it's no secret that both men don't see eye to eye. He's played on average 16 minutes per game compared to 19 minutes last year and at the end of the season, he was playing closer to 11 minutes... not good in Colorado.

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04-14-2012, 10:05 AM
  #114
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I voted no, but mostly because I think the GM should have freedom to select any strategy he feels is best for the team in the long term.

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04-14-2012, 03:05 PM
  #115
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I don't know... they just re-signed Sacco for a few years and it's no secret that both men don't see eye to eye. He's played on average 16 minutes per game compared to 19 minutes last year and at the end of the season, he was playing closer to 11 minutes... not good in Colorado.
I have no problem adding him. I think they'd be nuts to deal him but sure, of course he'd be great to add a 21 year old who already has shown he can be a 60+ point player is always welcome.

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04-14-2012, 03:10 PM
  #116
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Remember, we're just passengers. The Habs will go where the GM points them. The GM doesn't have to cater to our preferences.

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04-14-2012, 03:47 PM
  #117
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Remember, we're just passengers. The Habs will go where the GM points them. The GM doesn't have to cater to our preferences.
You mean I've written 8000 rebuild posts for nothing?

Holy crap man, I need something new to do with my life.

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04-15-2012, 06:34 AM
  #118
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1. Draft Grigorenko,will make Plekanec expendable.
2. Package Plekanec + 1 scrub trade for an elite winger.
3. Package Kaberle + 1 scrub trade for a physical top 4 defenceman.
4. Package Gionta + 1 scrub trade for a young top 6 winger.
5. Sign best UFA's to max 3 year contracts under 5 mil

Pfff....nothing to this GM job!

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04-15-2012, 08:10 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
Honestly I do not believe they would trade Luongo I am just saying Schneider would be a viable option or even a Quick plus for Price hell I would send them Price and Tinordi for Quick or even Bernier and some pieces.
I know you would as a Habs fan but the other teams won't make those trades. Those are two examples of teams with 2 good goalies, if they're trading one of those goalies they won't want an established starter like Price coming back.

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04-15-2012, 08:12 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
My hope is that we draft him this year.

They're last... for now. That won't last.

They've got a long way to go before they're a good team (and they've got incompetent management that makes me question how good they will be) but a they've got an incredible core to build around. If they take Yakupov this draft and then start trading guys like Hemsky or Paajarvi or other young forwards for young bluliners they could be very scary down the line. Maybe they could do a Paajarvi or a Gagner for Johnathan Bernier...

People used to make fun of the Pens, Caps and Hawks too man. Go look back at some of those posts and have a laugh.

I think we're not that far off. We've got a lot of good pieces in place already and some decent depth coming up on the blueline in the next couple of years. One more year of rebuild... that's it. Deal Pleks, deal Gionta (it can be at the deadline) and then get a couple of good picks at next years' draft. Add it to what we have and we could be in really good shape for the next several years. Then we can look at adding UFAs down the line and actually maybe even trading away some picks to get final pieces when we're actually contenders. We're not there yet though. Quick fixes won't help, they will hurt. We just need to be patient a while longer and we'll have the building blocks in place.

What really bothers me right now is that we're starting to waste some great years from Price. That's exactly what I was worried about when we made those stupid moves three years ago. In that span we've wasted Pleks and now we're on our way to wasting Price. Don't want a repeat of those old mistakes. Just spend a year rebuilding and we'll be in good shape for a long time.
Caps have yet to win something...
have to re-sign Green, Perreault and Carlson (last two getting raises)
may lose Wideman and Semin...
have to find a #1 goalie again...


might want to re-post the link to this great Leonsis article

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04-15-2012, 08:16 AM
  #121
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I'd be totally upset by a "rebuild". I would question the competency of any GM in the modern age who went that route with a team like ours. Habs are well placed to BUILD. Just keep adding to what we have.

I don't think that means the current core is a "contender" either... but some of the components are there. A "rebuild" is not a good way to add what's missing.
^ This

Maybe we're getting a terms confused cuz they seem to be at two extremes.

Re-tool seems to be a taboo word associated with the small moves Gauthier made (more of them were good than bad, although I don't get why he let Moore go, then Halpern).

IMO we're a season of not so great stuff again, but the year after that I foresee very good things. In the meantime just try to steer the ship so it doesn't sink too much. I think we can all agree that when Edmonton comes 5th...they're getting Mckinnon, so no point in hoping for a tank and TBH, I was only on the tankwagon once we were out. I'd prefer to make the playoffs and I think we can.

I'd keep Gionta and Pleks. I see a lot of people not valuing them very highly. When they're gone, you will

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04-15-2012, 09:46 AM
  #122
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Habs have a good core going forward, that being said though....I would not be opposed to seeing the Habs land MacKinnon as their player to build the next 10-15 years around either.

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04-15-2012, 09:52 AM
  #123
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I wouldn't be upset, but I don't think it's the way to go for now. We need to add a top pairing defenseman and forget that Markov is there.

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04-15-2012, 01:18 PM
  #124
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I would be extremely upset if they decide to do a rebuild....it simply isn't needed!!! The Habs have some very good pieces in place right now and with a couple of good free agent signings it could complete the current team and make them a contender.

The Habs might not be a contender next season, but the more experience guys like Eller, Desharnais, Pacioretty, Diaz, Weber and Emelin get....the better off the team will be. Keeping those guys around and giving them a chance to excel is crucial.

The Habs do need to part ways with a couple of players as well...there are some players on the current roster that don't belong (Gomez, Bourque, Kaberle and even Gionta to a lesser extent). Clearing some dead-weight and huge salaries will only benefit the team now and in the future.

The biggest thing that will make a difference for the habs is having a decent GM and a great coach to lead the players the right way and motivate them to win. Without those pieces in place, it won't matter who is or isn't on the roster....you can't win without a quality coach!!

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04-15-2012, 03:01 PM
  #125
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As long as it is not a total and complete stripdown, I would be ok with missing the playoffs a year or two more if it means stocking up on the right young talent to make this team strong long term.

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