The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
Hamilton II: The City, The League, and The Coliseum
I think it depends on who owns the franchise. Hamilton is owned by Andluaer so it probably can choose any uniform or colour it wants but I've always been a fan of AHL teams using the colours and striping of their parent club.
As for the outdoor classic sweaters...ewwwww...I think they should wash them first....
you didnt like the OC sweaters? i'll take them over MTL's colours any day..
for the most part i get the same colour as parent club but this is Sparta..er leafs country. they really should change colours..and affiliate but one step at a time lol
you didnt like the OC sweaters? i'll take them over MTL's colours any day..
for the most part i get the same colour as parent club but this is Sparta..er leafs country. they really should change colours..and affiliate but one step at a time lol
Oh, no, the sweaters are fine, in fact they are a great example of how to do faux-back sweaters the right way. I just don't want to keep the 'sweat'..
“The MLSE acquisition is an acquisition based on content,” Rogers Media president Keith Pelley told a gathering of television professionals at an industry event called TV Day
Eagerly anticipating Hamilton city council's meeting Friday night to decide who will manage Copps. Prevailing wisdom seems to be Katz/AEG.
Timing is interesting with Markham making a decision the night before, and my interest has been piqued by comments at work by colleagues (who do not frequent HFBoards) that echo those made by both Killion and aqib about not being surprised if the NHL expands to both Markham and Hamilton given the new MLSE ownership has admitted that their acquisition is about content.
Could you imagine the excitement in southern Ontario the first season of all 3 teams taking to the ice, clashing?
Timing is interesting with Markham making a decision the night before, and my interest has been piqued by comments at work by colleagues (who do not frequent HFBoards) that echo those made by both Killion and aqib about not being surprised if the NHL expands to both Markham and Hamilton given the new MLSE ownership has admitted that their acquisition is about content.
Could you imagine the excitement in southern Ontario the first season of all 3 teams taking to the ice, clashing?
This area would go nuts.
I would be very surprised if the NHL expanded, I don't believe for one second that expansion is even on the NHL's radar. What wouldn't surprise me is if a team relocates to Hamilton with MLSE's blessing as a means to undercut the Markham arena...
Eagerly anticipating Hamilton city council's meeting Friday night to decide who will manage Copps. Prevailing wisdom seems to be Katz/AEG.
Timing is interesting with Markham making a decision the night before, and my interest has been piqued by comments at work by colleagues (who do not frequent HFBoards) that echo those made by both Killion and aqib about not being surprised if the NHL expands to both Markham and Hamilton given the new MLSE ownership has admitted that their acquisition is about content.
Could you imagine the excitement in southern Ontario the first season of all 3 teams taking to the ice, clashing?
This area would go nuts.
Even with Katz/AEG on board, I wouldn't get my hopes up for an expansion or relocated team.
What wouldn't surprise me is if a team relocates to Hamilton with MLSE's blessing as a means to undercut the Markham arena...
I dont understand. MLSE would support the hammer, in order to sabotage gta2? Why would they do that? Would belgers not have more to gain financially from gta2 than from the hammer, re: content?
I would be very surprised if the NHL expanded, I don't believe for one second that expansion is even on the NHL's radar. .
I'm not as sure as you are when i consider Bettman referring to Hamilton as "a league opportunity", Daly stating that there are interested owners, and Katz/AEG showing so much interest and Hamilton's high standing investment wise.
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Hamilton has scored the top spot on a new list of the best places to invest in Ontario.
The annual ranking by Toronto-based Real Estate Investment Network also names Hamilton the third-best place in Canada for investment, after Edmonton and Calgary. The honour is the second time in two months the city has been given a gold star as a target for investment.
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British-based FDI Magazine, owned by the prestigious Financial Times Group, ranked Hamilton as one of the top 10 large cities in North America ripe for foreign investment. Specifically, the publication ranked Hamilton ninth on its list of best large cities for investment, and seventh on a sub list of large cities ranked by infrastructure.
Hamilton itself and the Province of Ontario both ran pretty fast over the past year. So it's no surprise the Ontario Ministry of Economic Development & Trade earns our annual Canadian Competitiveness Award for province-level economic development activity, and the City of Hamilton is among our elite set of 10 Top Canadian economic development groups
I dont understand. MLSE would support the hammer, in order to sabotage gta2? Why would they do that?
To prevent the construction of a competing arena, something that contributed to the Raptors/Leafs merger 15 years ago when they were each going to build their own building, but realized that would have hurt both teams . remember, they're in the concert business too, not just sports. It's an old argument.
If MLSE was convinced that a 2nd team in southern Ontario was inevitable, it would make sense for them to "allow" Hamilton, which already has an (upgradeable) arena.
Even with Katz/AEG on board, I wouldn't get my hopes up for an expansion or relocated team.
no one should get their hopes up for sure, but you can't help but notice that this is a NHL BOG controlled bidding process for Copps with three different companies with members that are also elites in the BOG plus chair of the Relocation / expansion Tim Leiweke who is also president of AEG.
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"Our work with the Katz Group in Hamilton is a natural expansion of our relationship," said Bob Newman, AEG Facilities Chief Operating Officer. "We strongly believe the greater Hamilton marketplace has the potential of becoming one of the region's most active sports and entertainment markets. We look forward to working with the City and stakeholders in creating this new state of the art venue."
To prevent the construction of a competing arena, something that contributed to the Raptors/Leafs merger 15 years ago when they were each going to build their own building, but realized that would have hurt both teams . remember, they're in the concert business too, not just sports. It's an old argument.
If MLSE was convinced that a 2nd team in southern Ontario was inevitable, it would make sense for them to "allow" Hamilton, which already has an (upgradeable) arena.
Yes, it is an old argument, but one that is become less important now that belgers is taking over MLSE and content will reign over gate.
True, an NHL team in the hammer would not affect ACC non-hockey event ticket sales. Though, I do think MLSE would only allow gta2 if there was some sort of indemnity agreement that MLSE would have the local broadcast rights. I dont have the numbers, but I suspect that MLSE/belgers would make more money from those broadcast rights than it would lose from non-hockey gate to the markham motoroladome. Besides, Im not convinced that ACC would lose out on all that many events to markham, especially when one considers how venue exclusivity works with ticketmaster.
I do think MLSE would only allow gta2 if there was some sort of indemnity agreement that MLSE would have the local broadcast rights.
Back when Balsillie was after a team, there were reports that he'd throw MLSE a bone by "giving" TV rights to LeafsTV.
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I dont have the numbers, but I suspect that MLSE/belgers would make more money from those broadcast rights than it would lose from non-hockey gate to the markham motoroladome.
Funny. I think the opposite. Can't see TV ratings numbers be all that different btwn Hamilton and Markham. But, I don't have any numbers either.
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Besides, Im not convinced that ACC would lose out on all that many events to markham, especially when one considers how venue exclusivity works with ticketmaster.
Niot sure what, if any, deal ACC/MLSE has with Ticketmaster, but aren't Ticketmaster and LiveNation affiliated, and isn't LiveNation sniffing around Markham now?
If so, all the more reason for MLSE to "grant" a Hamilton franchise in an attempt to prevent Markham arena as they just might get Ticketmaster's exclusivity.
But then again, these are all the big boys at play here, and Killion and aqib may be on to something here with regards to both may be targeted by the NHL.
I dont understand. MLSE would support the hammer, in order to sabotage gta2? Why would they do that? Would belgers not have more to gain financially from gta2 than from the hammer, re: content?
But they wouldn't gain more financially. For one thing, the Markham's proposed arena is in direct competition with the ACC. The team itself will also be in direct competition going after the same fanbase and corporate support.
Just think about the logic of it. If Toronto has been opposed for decades of a team in Hamilton, why would they suddenly be supportive of a team that is much closer to them?
I'm not as sure as you are when i consider Bettman referring to Hamilton as "a league opportunity", Daly stating that there are interested owners, and Katz/AEG showing so much interest and Hamilton's high standing investment wise.
You're preaching to the choir brother. I don't need to click those links to see what's been happening in my old hometown. Everytime I visit Hamilton I'm starting to see the dramatic changes. It's been decades since I've seen that many construction cranes, and downtown parking! I used to have no problem finding parking downtown, but in the last two years those spots have started getting scarce, and that was before the new construction started eating up those now valuable spaces.
But for expansion? Relocation, yes, but expansion? The league is no where near ready for that. Gary Bettman said so himself recently (as seen in that BoH thread). The temporary boost from expansion fees would only be a short-term benefit and would undermine their weak-markets teams even further in the long run. The league would derive more benefit from a relocation. They could still divy up the fees, but there would one less weak sister and the league would become more stable as the result.
Niot sure what, if any, deal ACC/MLSE has with Ticketmaster, but aren't Ticketmaster and LiveNation affiliated, and isn't LiveNation sniffing around Markham now?
If so, all the more reason for MLSE to "grant" a Hamilton franchise in an attempt to prevent Markham arena as they just might get Ticketmaster's exclusivity.
Yes, they are essentially one and the same company. It is important to understand that it is also a concert promoter and as such it can decide where shows play. Assuming that TM gets the rights to the motoroladome (and who else would? none I suggest given the ticket distribution market around here) it would largely be TM that would decide where a show plays ... and unless there were scheduling issues, I'd bet they would likely want to continue downtown because of a larger catchment from east and west of Bay than from north of 7. Maybe Im completely wrong about that, though.
Oh, Im not saying MLSE would not prefer a hammer franchise more. I think it would too. It's less complicated. Im just saying that there is now less to lose on a gta2 given the new owners and new objectives.
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor
But they wouldn't gain more financially. For one thing, the Markham's proposed arena is in direct competition with the ACC. The team itself will also be in direct competition going after the same fanbase and corporate support.
Just think about the logic of it. If Toronto has been opposed for decades of a team in Hamilton, why would they suddenly be supportive of a team that is much closer to them?
because the new owners are more interested in showing hockey games on tv than selling $12 beers and hosting bon jovi cougar nite than the old owners were/are. if you are suggesting that acc hockey game sellouts would become a thing of the past because people would rather attend the motoroladome, I respectfully disagree.
Copps is already a competing arena. If this was the case the Leafs would have blocked copps
How do you do that? They can't block it.
The logic is, IF Markham's ultimate endgame is an NHL franchise, and Hamilton's getting one kills that dream, then that's why MLSE would "allow" a Hamilton franchise.
If Markham wants to go ahead and build an arena without an NHL tenant then MLSE cannot block them anymore than they could have blocked Copps from being built.
The logic is, IF Markham's ultimate endgame is an NHL franchise, and Hamilton's getting one kills that dream, then that's why MLSE would "allow" a Hamilton franchise.
If Markham wants to go ahead and build an arena without an NHL tenant then MLSE cannot block them anymore than they could have blocked Copps from being built.
Thats my point. Be more so, people saying Markham is completion when while copps is not for not hockey events. Copps gets many things the ACC does not.
it would largely be TM that would decide where a show plays ...
uh... no. well, there is the Live Nation/TM merger, but that's created a real mess.
promoters try to get bands to play their venues when they own them (a la house of blues), but really most bands arrange their tour based on $$$, and local promoters (sometimes directly tied to a venue or venues they represent) decide what they'll pay to the artist. the real meaningful impact of an additional venue in TO will likely be higher guaranteed fees to performers due to the competition between the venues, and TM will have nothing to do with it, other than getting a take of the sales of tickets, probably from both venues. Of course, with the merger they are being forced to provide data and software to competitors to directly compete for the venue contracts, so who knows, maybe a new arena goes with AEG instead. Keep in mind here that the contract is not for control fo the venue, only for the sale of tickets. TM cannot tell an artist where they'll play, nor can they tell a venue who they can or cannot have perform. The bigger scarier beast is Live Nation, who went about systematically buying up venues, particularly amphitheatres and key theatres. They can have a much bigger impact on what artists do, particularly for the summer outdoor tour, and the mid range bands that perform in theatres. they have much less influence on arena/stadium tours.
hmmm.... I see they own the Molson Amphitheatre. so there you go. if a tour was being planned, and Live Nation had a role in the arrangement, they might actually try to keep it out of TO completely until the summer rolls around to get it into the amphitheatre, screwing over both arenas.
i've said this before in another thread, or maybe this one im to lazy to read back a few pages.
imo Buffalo will do a 180 on Hamilton getting a team if the NHL forces a second team into the golden horseshoe.. they'd get zero greenbacks from that second team in the GTA
