The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
Conversely, growing the league to 32 would increase revenue and sharing. The NHL would also prefer to reap the raw financial benefit of expansion rather than move a team and miss out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian
Quebec is getting a relocated team.
The NHL is not expanding any time soon.
They have so many franchises in trouble, expanding could end up being league suicide.
In my opinion, there is a 3 (at least) to 5 (reasonable, far from probable) years window if we talk about a new expansion.
The league won't give an expasion team to Quebec, Toronto, Seattle or what ever other city want's one. Not before those cities have arenas.
They might move the Coyotes to Quebec because Quebec has an arena that can work temporarly...with an established team. Start a team from scratch in the old Colisée or in Key Arena in Seattle WILL NOT WORK.
So, how many of us are really that sure about an expansion. I will say like many, any team is better than none, but I know I will cooloff for quite some time if our next possibility is an expansion.
Why ? Simply because with a new expansion I know I can sleep still for 5 years, no dreams, no expectations, no hypes, nothing. I don't think the Nordiques Nation will be traveling another 12 hours to Detroit to show the league how crazy of fans we are if expansion is our destiny.
You think people with J'ai ma place are ready to have their cash stored for another 5 years, I don't.
As if it's not Phoenix, could it be someone else. Again, I doubt it. Islanders won't leave NY, the league is proud to be the only one to have 3 teams in a very important market like NY-NJ is. Devils, they just got an arena, there is not a political, logical and anyother sense they can move in next 10 years.
Columbus...if Phoenix doesn't move because of the so said market, why would Columbus which is 10x more a hockey market than Phoenix is (my opinion no bad feeling).
I still think Phoenix is dead in the water. The Jamison group seems almost too good to be true, plus any potential sale of the Coyotes in the last three years has hit a snag. I don't see this as being any different.
People may look at the crowd last night and say "Phoenix can support the Coyotes!" Playoff crowds are no indication of ability. Sure, you can sell out a playoff game when the games mean something... But what about those games in January and February when the season starts dragging on?
Sell out those games with paying customers, then I'll be impressed.
I still think Phoenix is dead in the water. The Jamison group seems almost too good to be true, plus any potential sale of the Coyotes in the last three years has hit a snag. I don't see this as being any different.
People may look at the crowd last night and say "Phoenix can support the Coyotes!" Playoff crowds are no indication of ability. Sure, you can sell out a playoff game when the games mean something... But what about those games in January and February when the season starts dragging on?
Sell out those games with paying customers, then I'll be impressed.
And let me doubt last night game was ''SOLD OUT'', the house was maybe full, but how many of them got free entry is another story.
And let me doubt last night game was ''SOLD OUT'', the house was maybe full, but how many of them got free entry is another story.
Every single playoffs games of the coyotes will be sold out, but not a single one of these tickets will be sold at a higher price than a regular season (third level) ticket in Montreal or Toronto.
Every single playoffs games of the coyotes will be sold out, but not a single one of these tickets will be sold at a higher price than a regular season (third level) ticket in Montreal or Toronto.
Didn't the Yotes have a buy a ticket to the last two regular season game and get a free playoff ticket promotion?
Regardless. It is true the money generated from ticket sales in Arizona is a fraction of what it is in a viable market. Even if they sold all their tickets. They are a very long way from being able to get their heads above water.
Hey guys... try not to worry..... we went thru this in Winnipeg last year and the situation is very similar. Unless the NHL drops the price which thus far I haven't heard they would..... there is no way GJ pays 170M for the Yotes without massive "treats" from the COG. Unless he buys the arena and westgate mall there will never be enough revenue to generate a profit.
Can GJ and his "investors" afford to loss 15M - 20M - 30M + for the next 5 years? Imagine the fans being forced to pay real NHL prices and parking! No more $1.00 beer and hot dog nights!
The Coyotes success in the playoffs will only delay the inevitable.
The only thing I'd worry about is never underestimate the stupidity of the COG.
Can't wait for the Nords to visit Winnipeg next season..... !!!
Hey guys... try not to worry..... we went thru this in Winnipeg last year and the situation is very similar. Unless the NHL drops the price which thus far I haven't heard they would..... there is no way GJ pays 170M for the Yotes without massive "treats" from the COG. Unless he buys the arena and westgate mall there will never be enough revenue to generate a profit.
Can GJ and his "investors" afford to loss 15M - 20M - 30M + for the next 5 years? Imagine the fans being forced to pay real NHL prices and parking! No more $1.00 beer and hot dog nights!
The Coyotes success in the playoffs will only delay the inevitable.
The only thing I'd worry about is never underestimate the stupidity of the COG.
Can't wait for the Nords to visit Winnipeg next season..... !!!
Great comment my Winnipeg friend! Once again thanks for all the support you and your fans as shown for a new team in Québec City. There is a great bond being created hockey wise between our 2 cities!
(...) Unless the NHL drops the price which thus far I haven't heard they would..... there is no way GJ pays 170M for the Yotes without massive "treats" from the COG. Unless he buys the arena and westgate mall there will never be enough revenue to generate a profit.
Can GJ and his "investors" afford to loss 15M - 20M - 30M + for the next 5 years? (...)
Since he's begging Glendale to help him buy the team, I don't see how!!
Winnipeg fans lived this for 3 years of ups and downs.....Keep your eyes on the prize and sooner or later common sense will prevail and you will get your team back! The COG can't even find 5 mil to pay the NHL what they owe from last year and now we are to believe they are gonna find 40+ mil to give to this new ownership?
Coyote talk on PTS. The group included Bob McCown, John Shannon, David Shoalts and Stephen Brunt. My memory is not what it should be so feel free to correct me if I misstate what was discussed...
All 4 believe the NHL will not budge on the $170M price tag altho John Shannon feels the Relocation Fee from the Thrashers/Jets sale is available to lessen the costs. All agree Jamison does not have to money to run the team (himself) after the purchase. All agree Gary Bettman wants Quebec City for either :
1) $200M+ expansion; 2) A place to put the Panthers, the Devils, the Islanders or one of the many teams in trouble.
Overall, BM, SB and DS are sceptical. John Shannon remains convinced Gary Bettman will make it work.
I found the discussion difficult to listen to. David Shoalts spends too much energy trying to be funny and not enough trying to be clear.
Interesting post by our friend KevyD here. Would you guys prefer getting the Coyotes next season or wait a little more and get guys like the Islanders or the Devils?
The Devils ain't going NOWHERE. If someone is dumb enough to buy the Coyotes, man there must be 10 owners ready to buy the Devils when they're for sale
The Devils ain't going NOWHERE. If someone is dumb enough to buy the Coyotes, man there must be 10 owners ready to buy the Devils when they're for sale
Well, the NJD just moved in a brand-new building and they are in the New York metropolitan area. Someone will buy that club to keep it there. We're not talking about Phoenix here, we're talking about a legitimate AND PROVEN hockey market.
The Panthers, as a separate entity, might not be profitable, but the whole buisiness operation is, they are going no where.
We don't need sources to connect the dots together.
I tend to agree that NJD are going nowhere, and same for Florida for now..
But who knows what can happen if a few teams go bankrupt.
For a minute there, I thought you were talking about the playoffs. I was thinking “One of them has to be going somewhere... they are playing each other.“
Well, the NJD just moved in a brand-new building and they are in the New York metropolitan area. Someone will buy that club to keep it there. We're not talking about Phoenix here, we're talking about a legitimate AND PROVEN hockey market.
The Panthers, as a separate entity, might not be profitable, but the whole buisiness operation is, they are going no where.
We don't need sources to connect the dots together.
Proven market yes, but at the same time, they're having hard times filling the arena no? I remember the Nordiques Nation going to a game last year and there must have been no more than 7-8000 people in the stands..
But yea, even with that, I dont see NJ moving anywhere.
But damn, it seems hard nowadays to find an owner for US markets.. one that has plenty of money and willing to commit for the long term. So if many teams bankrupt at the same time, what'll happen then? NHL will buy each of them and manage them like they did with the yotes?
It's odd that at a time where the revenues are at an all-time high, so many franchises just can't follow.. Basically if you can't sell most of your tickets at a league-average price, you're in trouble.
We see that in a few markets, especially Florida and Phoenix, and there are probably others too. Avg ticket price at +/-35$ won't work
Well, the NJD just moved in a brand-new building and they are in the New York metropolitan area. Someone will buy that club to keep it there. We're not talking about Phoenix here, we're talking about a legitimate AND PROVEN hockey market.
The Panthers, as a separate entity, might not be profitable, but the whole buisiness operation is, they are going no where.
We don't need sources to connect the dots together.
Yea but there's a thing called bankruptcy added to the fact that New Jersey has always been a bad market whatever if it's close to NYC or not. Attendances have been historically bad. Plus the ownership trouble. It's sort of a perfect storm for "anything can happen".
If GB cares so much about money and wants to keep Quebec in his back pocket, it's not because he feels guilty from moving the Nordiques and wants them to come back, it's because he only wants to use us to get more money elsewhere.
We should keep working hard in landing the Coyotes, because if Coyotes don't move, it may take a year, but it may take a few years as well to get a team. And in few years yes we will have the arena, but so will Seattle, Hamilton/Markham and maybe some other cities, and when that happens GB will be all over it and he will say, NJDevils are for sale, who ever bids more between Quebec and Seattle gets it...gonna be fun buying a team for 2G instead of 200M.
If GB cares so much about money and wants to keep Quebec in his back pocket, it's not because he feels guilty from moving the Nordiques and wants them to come back, it's because he only wants to use us to get more money elsewhere.
We should keep working hard in landing the Coyotes, because if Coyotes don't move, it may take a year, but it may take a few years as well to get a team. And in few years yes we will have the arena, but so will Seattle, Hamilton/Markham and maybe some other cities, and when that happens GB will be all over it and he will say, NJDevils are for sale, who ever bids more between Quebec and Seattle gets it...gonna be fun buying a team for 2G instead of 200M.
Dont be so pessimist. Bettman talked with both the mayor and the premier, and then it lead both to drop 200 millions $ each for the new Colisée. Plus PKP is putting millions in the new Colisée for a TV studio. If not an absolute guarantee, i sure Bettman told them that with a new arena, the chance are very good to get a team. I am confident that at some point, in the new Colisée there will be NHL hockey. And dont rule out expansion, i am sure it is coming. Two conference of 16 teams is the perfect format for a league.
OK, This is all hypothetical, I repeat. All hypothetical, since I have no insider information to share here whatsoever.
The mod's have told me privately what I can and cannot do. I will abide by the boards rules.
Now that we got that out of the way, I can say that this is but a scenario. Like a Hollywood film if you'd like. I'm going to name it...
''The 100% guarantee that the Nordiques will be back''
Bear with me, it's just a working title.
Here's the scenario.
What if
In early August of 2009, during the Phoenix Coyotes bankruptcy hearings, Bill Daly spent 4 days at Marcel Aubut's house in Quebec? could it have happened?
''He was at my house for 4 days. He's a friend that was on vacation in Quebec. I've known him since forever''-- Marcel Aubut
What if
Bill Daly and Marcel Aubut conspired to bring an NHL club back to Quebec city at that time?
Did they talk about it?
''I've already told you too much. I'm not going to divulge my subjects of conversations with him now am I?, come on.''-- Marcel Aubut
''I'm sure if the NHL came back to QC one day, it would be because Mr.Aubut played a big part in it'' -- Patrick Bragoli, Executive Director, J'ai Ma Place (in charge of selling season tickets to the new arena)
Marcel Aubut sold the Nordiques in May of 95' to Denver, and do the NHL a favor, even though he could have kept them in Quebec and sold them to a man named Gilles Leger who had deep pocketed investors all lined up?
''Yes I had a deal in place to buy the Nordiques. A deal that was fair and honest. A deal which would have at least given the franchise a great chance to be kept in Quebec city.''-- Gilles Leger
NO I'm not bringing up the fact that Marcel Aubut's law firm Heenan Blaikie has a working relationship with the NHL since then. I'm not. Ok..
What if
Marcel Aubut's job, shortly after having a conversation with Bill Daly in august 2009, started secretly lobbying the Federal government for money to build a new QC arena for the return of the Nordiques? Cause we all know they couldn't bring a team back without a new NHL standard arena right?
A report Monday revealed that in 2009, Paradis spent two nights in a lodge owned by Quebec businessman Marcel Aubut, the former owner of the Quebec Nordiques hockey franchise.
At that time, Aubut was lobbying for the federal government to help fund a new $400-million hockey arena for Quebec City to help strengthen the case for returning the NHL to the provincial capital
''I can tell you that when Marcel Aubut invited me, he said 'No business!, we're going to take a day to relax amongsts friends', that's it!''-- Christian Paradis, Federal Minister of Industry and State.
We all know where we are with the new Quebec city arena now, don't we? We all know how the Phoenix Coyotes saga has been going in desert. How Matthew Hulsizer couldn't get it done, the Goldwater Institute, the Glendale City council, how there's been abundant rumors of a sale happening for 2 years now, Reinsdorf, Hulsizer, Jamison etc... I'm probably forgetting some.
But it's OK folks, sit back in your seats, enjoy the popcorn.
There is NO conspiracy to get the Phoenix Coyotes back to Quebec between Daly, Aubut, Bettman, none. I'm telling you! none whatsoever!
Bettman and Daly have said so. They are not making any promises to any cities wanting NHL franchises.
I know what it looks like, I know, but it's not happening. That is not what is being said. What is being said is that the Phoenix Coyotes will be sold to Greg Jamison and they wil live happily ever after in desert. That's the story.
I know I'm implying a conspiracy between Daly, Bettman and Aubut. This story just ends differently that's all. Not all stories have to end up-
I'm Sorry, What?
It's not a bad story but every good Hollywood movie needs a good twist at the end. It's basic film 101. You should know that.
You think so?
OK. OK. Let's try this.
What if
The supposed deal to sell the Coyotes to Greg Jamison falls apart at the last minute and they have no choice but to relocate to Quebec city and become the Nordiques again?
Yeah.. Ok.
Yes that way, the favor will be paid back in full towards Marcel Aubut for giving the NHL the Denver market back then and not selling to Gilles Leger and his group.... Yeah, I like that idea.
Huh, Come to think of it...
You're right.What was I thinking?
There's no way a $400M arena was built for nothing. there's no way that, a provincial government, people's political careers, a media giant (Quebecor) would all be this involved with hundreds of millions of dollars on the line for nothing.
That's good. There's your twist.
I just need to add.
Coming soon to TV screens across the country near you.
Last edited by Cryogenic Man: 04-16-2012 at 12:15 PM.
