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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 10.0

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Old
04-14-2012, 06:53 PM
  #26
Jack Bourdain
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From what scouts say, Dumba could be a mix of Doughty and Subban. I know it's probably a big exaggeration, but a guy that could play 30 minutes, all situation PP+PK and put up points? I would love to gamble on him.

Wouldn't surprise me if he goes in the top 5, and some team thinks he's better than Murray.

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04-14-2012, 06:54 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
From what scouts say, Dumba could be a mix of Doughty and Subban. I know it's probably a big exaggeration, but a guy that could play 30 minutes, all situation PP+PK and put up points? I would love to gamble on him.

Wouldn't surprise me if he goes in the top 5, and some team thinks he's better than Murray.
Subban and Doughty are pretty much alike from what I saw. How can they be a mix ? Unless you're meaning Doughty+Subban a black guy with silky hairs ?

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04-14-2012, 07:00 PM
  #28
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I just looked at the last couple of pages of the V9.0 of the Draft thread and can't get all over the Forsberg bashing because he's scoring a goal a game. Watch the fricking game folks before commenting. The only period when the game was close (the 1st period), he completely dominated in the offensive zone and had 5 fricking shots on goal which included his goal! The kid looked like a man among boys out there. Not to mention he threw some big hits, is great along the wall, goes hard to the net and doesn't shy away from anyone. He's also very good at controlling the puck in the offensive zone. Sweden basically put it into cruise control the rest of the game. This is the type of player we want when the going is tough...he's a gamer with plenty of skill.

It's frustrating to debate with people who don't watch a game and treat the stat sheet like it tells the entire story.

Collberg's also one helluva player (skill and grit) but he doesn't have as much upside at the NHL level as Forsberg because he'll never be able to overpower NHL defenders like the big Swedish captain can.

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04-14-2012, 07:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Subban and Doughty are pretty much alike from what I saw. How can they be a mix ? Unless you're meaning Doughty+Subban a black guy with silky hairs ?
Doughty's offense with Subban's physicality is what I'm thinking.

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04-14-2012, 07:31 PM
  #30
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Doughty's offense with Subban's physicality is what I'm thinking.
Subban is pretty much offensive minded. And doughty is pretty much physical is what I meant.

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04-14-2012, 07:31 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
I just looked at the last couple of pages of the V9.0 of the Draft thread and can't get all over the Forsberg bashing because he's scoring a goal a game. Watch the fricking game folks before commenting.


The caliber is really really bad in this tournament. I saw the feed and he's not dominant like I expected him to be. I really wanted to love him so I don't think i'm biased.



You are right that judging by the stats in 2 games is wrong tho.

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04-14-2012, 08:11 PM
  #32
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Not sure if this rumor has already been posted, but HNIC's Hot Stove folks are saying that Team Canada is expected to invite Ryan Murray to the Worlds. He'll get a chance to show teams (Oilers!) that he's NHL ready.

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04-14-2012, 08:14 PM
  #33
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Not sure if this rumor has already been posted, but HNIC's Hot Stove folks are saying that Team Canada is expected to invite Ryan Murray to the Worlds. He'll get a chance to show teams (Oilers!) that he's NHL ready.
hmm... kevin lowe doing his magic... sutter coach and murray at the worlds...sounds like a free evaluation process...

OH CANADA!

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04-14-2012, 08:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Not sure if this rumor has already been posted, but HNIC's Hot Stove folks are saying that Team Canada is expected to invite Ryan Murray to the Worlds. He'll get a chance to show teams (Oilers!) that he's NHL ready.
That is stupid. I'm sure we have better available dmen.

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04-14-2012, 08:43 PM
  #35
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hmm... kevin lowe doing his magic... sutter coach and murray at the worlds...sounds like a free evaluation process...

OH CANADA!
Edmonton falling in love with Murray would only be a good thing from a habs perspective...

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04-14-2012, 09:05 PM
  #36
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You'd have to consider the situation in which we would pick Murray. Realistically that would mean that one of the 3 "other" forwards were already selected, so it'd be down to two of Grigo, Gally, and Forsberg. If timmins were to select Murray over any one of those two, I think I would be okay with it by virtue of what Timmins would have to see in Murray in order to select him over one of those forwards.

It'd be painful to walk away from the draft without one of "the" forwards, but if your head scout thinks that the top dman is simply the best available player, what are you gonna do? That's what you pay him for. To make those calls.

What if Ryan Murray were the next Niedermayer, and we picked the next Yashin?

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04-14-2012, 09:08 PM
  #37
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Edmonton falling in love with Murray would only be a good thing from a habs perspective...
Exactly, puts Galchenyuk right into our grubby little hands.

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04-14-2012, 09:37 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
I just looked at the last couple of pages of the V9.0 of the Draft thread and can't get all over the Forsberg bashing because he's scoring a goal a game. Watch the fricking game folks before commenting. The only period when the game was close (the 1st period), he completely dominated in the offensive zone and had 5 fricking shots on goal which included his goal! The kid looked like a man among boys out there. Not to mention he threw some big hits, is great along the wall, goes hard to the net and doesn't shy away from anyone. He's also very good at controlling the puck in the offensive zone. Sweden basically put it into cruise control the rest of the game. This is the type of player we want when the going is tough...he's a gamer with plenty of skill.

It's frustrating to debate with people who don't watch a game and treat the stat sheet like it tells the entire story.

Collberg's also one helluva player (skill and grit) but he doesn't have as much upside at the NHL level as Forsberg because he'll never be able to overpower NHL defenders like the big Swedish captain can.
Until he does something worthwhile against elite competition he remains a risk/project.

Playing in the 2nd division in Sweden might be against men, but this is basically ECHL caliber. A top 5 NHL pick should be able to put up better numbers.

At the WJC he was clearly behind Yakupov or Grigorenko, who was one of the best Russian players before he was injured.

Not being able to put up big numbers against 2nd rate U18 teams also is a concern. I don't care how you slice and dice his play, numbers don't lie.

Every year a sexy prospect is anointed by the draftniks and every year one prospect suffers the wrath.

How anyone would rather pick Forsberg of Grigorenko truly escapes me. Forsberg's body of work is just not there.

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Old
04-14-2012, 09:39 PM
  #39
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Exactly, puts Galchenyuk right into our grubby little hands.
Or it could even put Yakupov in our hands if Columbus is truly gun shy about taking a Russian.

I think Ryan Murray is going to be a spectacular NHL defenseman in a few years. Beautiful skater and extremely high hockey IQ. As a forward, there's nothing more difficult to play against than an effortless skating defenseman who reads the play quicker than anyone else on the ice. Those guys are so damn hard to play against.

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04-14-2012, 09:43 PM
  #40
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Some of the bashing here on Forsberg is ridiculous. Even in the U-18, he might not be on the scoresheet but if you watch the game, rather than assessing the scoresheet, you would see he is definitely the best player on the ice. On top of all that, he plays tough and forceful and will definitely be able to compete against NHL men. Also, he's listed at 6'2 and is a righty. Righty's that are big are usually valued a little more because naturally they tend to score more. Take it as a grain of salt, but most righty's in the NHL are goal scorers because it's easier for their centermen( who are mostly left-handed) to pass them the puck. Guys like Dany Heatley, Brett Hull, Alex Ovechkin, Steven Stamkos, Ilya Kovulchuck and even Phil Kessel are all rightys. Still, my first pick would be Galchenyuk but I'm all for a well-rounded Swede

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04-14-2012, 09:44 PM
  #41
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Until he does something worthwhile against elite competition he remains a risk/project.

Playing in the 2nd division in Sweden might be against men, but this is basically ECHL caliber. A top 5 NHL pick should be able to put up better numbers.

At the WJC he was clearly behind Yakupov or Grigorenko, who was one of the best Russian players before he was injured.

Not being able to put up big numbers against 2nd rate U18 teams also is a concern. I don't care how you slice and dice his play, numbers don't lie.

Every year a sexy prospect is anointed by the draftniks and every year one prospect suffers the wrath.

How anyone would rather pick Forsberg of Grigorenko truly escapes me. Forsberg's body of work is just not there.
Grigorenko was hardly impressive at the WJC. It's interesting that you bring up the WJC given that Forsberg played on the top PP unit of the most talented team, the deepest team, and the team that won Gold as a 17 year old. How many star NHL players weren't even good enough to play for their country in their draft years?

I also find it funny that you're bashing Forsberg for a goal per game pace at the WU18. Incredible! If you watched the game, you'd see that he's been dominant all over the offensive zone, great with the puck, along the boards, in front of the net and has a lightning quick release. A man against boys.


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Old
04-14-2012, 09:49 PM
  #42
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Grigorenko was hardly impressive at the WJC. It's interesting that you bring up the WJC given that Forsberg played on the top PP unit of the most talented team, the deepest team, and the team that won Gold as a 17 year old.
He put up 5 points in 6 games while playing through an injury that would require 2-3 weeks of rest after the tourney.

Saying Forsberg was even remotely close to being as good is pure homerism.

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04-14-2012, 09:53 PM
  #43
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Grigorenko was hardly impressive at the WJC. It's interesting that you bring up the WJC given that Forsberg played on the top PP unit of the most talented team, the deepest team, and the team that won Gold as a 17 year old.

I also find it funny that you're bashing him for a goal per game pace at the WU18. Incredible! If you watched the game, you'd see that he's been dominant all over the offensive zone, great with the puck and has a lightning quick release. A man against boys.
Grigorenko was clearly an important player before he was injured.

Forsberg had 1 assist...1 while playing with the best team and quality players and at least 3 games against inferior caliber.

Also Grigo and Forsberg are both 94....and both 17 at the tourney. I think they are 3 months apart. Age is irrelevant in comparing the two.

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04-14-2012, 09:56 PM
  #44
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He put up 5 points in 6 games while playing through an injury that would require 2-3 weeks of rest after the tourney.

Saying Forsberg was even remotely close to being as good is pure homerism.
Different types of players on different teams (one a highly offensive team versus a team that was a defense first team). Who won Gold by the way? You take Pierre Turgeon and I'll take Brendan Shanahan anyday of the week and all things being equal my team will win.

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04-14-2012, 09:58 PM
  #45
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Different types of players on different teams (one a highly offensive team versus a team that was a defense first team). Who won Gold by the way? You take Pierre Turgeon and I'll take Brendan Shanahan anyday of the week and all things being equal my team will win.
How you equate Forsberg to Shanahan is laughable at best.

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04-14-2012, 10:01 PM
  #46
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How you equate Forsberg to Shanahan is laughable at best.
I guess Craig Button is laughable too then because he made the same comparison. I'm not equating Forsberg to Shanahan but I'm saying his game is similar just like I'm not equating Grigorenko to Turgeon (doubt Grigs has that good of a career) but I'm saying his style is similar.

It will be interesting to read these boards if/when Forsberg gets picked before Grigorenko. It's easy for a HF boards poster with nothing riding on it to ignore the Russian factor.

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04-14-2012, 10:04 PM
  #47
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Different types of players on different teams (one a highly offensive team versus a team that was a defense first team). Who won Gold by the way? You take Pierre Turgeon and I'll take Brendan Shanahan anyday of the week and all things being equal my team will win.
Who won Gold? You mean, who won in overtime? You think if Grigs wasn't hobbling, it might've been different?

I'll take the best player according to what's available amongst those draft elligible this year. I wasn't aware we were picking past stars who drank from the fountain of youth.

Quote:
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I guess Craig Button is laughable too then because he made the same comparison.

It will be interesting to read these boards when Forsberg gets picked before Grigorenko. It's easy for a HF boards poster with nothing riding on it to ignore the Russian factor.
He also compared Galchenyuk to Ron Francis. Are we really going to take this seriously?

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Old
04-14-2012, 10:07 PM
  #48
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He also compared Galchenyuk to Ron Francis. Are we really going to take this seriously?
Similar style of play. It doesn't mean Galchenyuk will have a R.Francis career. I've seen Grigo in person in playoffs and I'd rather the Habs go with a gamer. I have a strong feeling Mr Timmins will also go with a gamer.

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04-14-2012, 10:07 PM
  #49
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I'm trying to be original if my comparisons here, what do you guys think? In similar style of play.
Grigorenko- More talented Mikko Koivu
Galchenyuk- (Stamkos lite)
Forsberg - (Potential Iginla)

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04-14-2012, 10:08 PM
  #50
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... I wish people would stop fabricating comparisons just for the sake of them. None of these are close.

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