If you really believe that, then you honestly don't watch or understand hockey. Explains alot though.
Funny...I thought the same thing about you. Laughable that folks like yourself think that David Steckel is so superior to someone like Mike Zigomanis. They skate like each other. They both win faceoffs more than an average center and if anything Zigo has a more established NHL career than Steckel. Steckel is pretty un-noticeable on the ice because he doesn't do much. But its typical Leafs fan mentality to herald the accomplishments of a nobody. A replaceable 4th liner who really doesn't do much of anything other than win draws. What else does Steckel do? Don't recall him throwing his big body around much....chipping in with some timely offense...or being an effective penalty killer. Also funny how you guys do nothing but defend every last lousy Leaf, yet they stink. You defend the GM, yet his assembled players fail time and time again. What do you think? The Leafs should just keep the entire roster next year because they will prove us naysayers wrong? Highly doubt it. The roster needs some serious overhauling and you cant keep all these "great players" now can we.
Funny...I thought the same thing about you. Laughable that folks like yourself think that David Steckel is so superior to someone like Mike Zigomanis. They skate like each other. They both win faceoffs more than an average center and if anything Zigo has a more established NHL career than Steckel. Steckel is pretty un-noticeable on the ice because he doesn't do much. But its typical Leafs fan mentality to herald the accomplishments of a nobody. A replaceable 4th liner who really doesn't do much of anything other than win draws. What else does Steckel do? Don't recall him throwing his big body around much....chipping in with some timely offense...or being an effective penalty killer. Also funny how you guys do nothing but defend every last lousy Leaf, yet they stink. You defend the GM, yet his assembled players fail time and time again. What do you think? The Leafs should just keep the entire roster next year because they will prove us naysayers wrong? Highly doubt it. The roster needs some serious overhauling and you cant keep all these "great players" now can we.
Steckel is superior to Zigomanis. One is a NHL'er, the other is an AHL'er.
Funny...I thought the same thing about you. Laughable that folks like yourself think that David Steckel is so superior to someone like Mike Zigomanis. They skate like each other. They both win faceoffs more than an average center and if anything Zigo has a more established NHL career than Steckel. Steckel is pretty un-noticeable on the ice because he doesn't do much. But its typical Leafs fan mentality to herald the accomplishments of a nobody. A replaceable 4th liner who really doesn't do much of anything other than win draws. What else does Steckel do? Don't recall him throwing his big body around much....chipping in with some timely offense...or being an effective penalty killer. Also funny how you guys do nothing but defend every last lousy Leaf, yet they stink. You defend the GM, yet his assembled players fail time and time again. What do you think? The Leafs should just keep the entire roster next year because they will prove us naysayers wrong? Highly doubt it. The roster needs some serious overhauling and you cant keep all these "great players" now can we.
Please dont put words in my mouth and lie, I never once said that and please show the quote where I did say that. If you watched the leafs, you would know that Steckel played on the pk, that is a fact. To suggest from you that all he does is take faceoffs proves that point as clear as day. Because you haven't watched the games, you would also have seen him use his body to position himself with the puck, and create room for other players. It was reported that new jersey was in the market for a pk center for the playoffs, strange that they traded one earlier in the season. Would actually be nice to have debates if posters would stop making things up, and putting their dislike aside and talk about the actual game. How classy is it when posters talk about engaging Burke in a fight, then justify it with said posters height and size. Pathetic and immature.
Please dont put words in my mouth and lie, I never once said that and please show the quote where I did say that. If you watched the leafs, you would know that Steckel played on the pk, that is a fact. To suggest from you that all he does is take faceoffs proves that point as clear as day. Because you haven't watched the games, you would also have seen him use his body to position himself with the puck, and create room for other players. It was reported that new jersey was in the market for a pk center for the playoffs, strange that they traded one earlier in the season. Would actually be nice to have debates if posters would stop making things up, and putting their dislike aside and talk about the actual game. How classy is it when posters talk about engaging Burke in a fight, then justify it with said posters height and size. Pathetic and immature.
Hahaha...when I assume you are saying this about me? I would never ever engage anybody minding their own business in a fight. I'm not some meathead...In fact wasn't it your hero who is always picking fights...the guy who played his hockey career as an AHL goon? The same GM who challenged Kevin Lowe to a barn fight because of a contract dispute?
I don't condone violence but I would certainly stand up for myself if pushed....but my own personal mantra is to walk away from any violence. I don't even like enforcers in hockey. Read my history. Perhaps you are mixing me up with someone else? Or am I simply misunderstanding what you are implying?
I also did not say that Steckel doesn't do anything other than take faceoffs. I said that is all he does well. And I stand by that. He is a useless player when not winning draws.
Last edited by hockeyfanz: 04-14-2012 at 12:04 PM.
Steckel is superior to Zigomanis. One is a NHL'er, the other is an AHL'er.
Yeah their career numbers certainly prove it.
Zigo. (31)
NHL 197 21 19 40 -21
Steckel (30)
NHL 385 32 40 72 -14
Actually pretty similiar skill sets and pretty similiar numbers (PPG). Its pretty much a wash unless you think Steckel is a much better skater than Zigomanis. Which I'm not sure is true.
Actually pretty similiar skill sets and pretty similiar numbers (PPG). Its pretty much a wash unless you think Steckel is a much better skater than Zigomanis. Which I'm not sure is true.
One player is currently a NHL'er in his 5th straight NHL season and the other player has failed to have more then 2 consecutive NHL seasons, he's also currently an AHL'er. That's quite a big difference, clearly there is a lot more to Steckel's skill set if he's been able to stay up with the big club (not just in Toronto mind you for the sake of being unbiased) rather than more down in the minors like Zigo has been doing his entire career.
Zigomanis - 459 AHL games played vs 197 NHL games played
Steckel - 208 AHL games played vs 385 NHL games played
"Little Joe" has boom or bust potential. He still has 35-40-75 upside. He has all the tools to be a top-line, 1.5-way forward. He is okay in his own end but (IMO) has the potential to be very good in his own end if he works on it (The same way Joe Thornton is a very very good 2-way forward now).
The knock on Joe is the same today as it was when Boston traded him, which is the same as when he was drafted. Everyone questions his drive to be the best. Does he have the desire to be a 1st line forward. That is the only thing holding him back.
He has a deadly shot and he might be better suited as a wing down the road (he played wing a lot in college and Providence).
You said he shows flashes of brilliance. I was curious to hear about that. From what I saw he is a bust for a 16th overall pick.
Not a knock against you, or what you say. I think he`s a bust in T.O unless they switch him to the wing.
What I dont like in Leafs nation is overhyping players all the time. To be honest lots of 1st rounders dont pan out to ever making the big club. Top 10 usually have great chance, but 11-30 it`s a crap shoot. Amazing how many great players are 2-7th round in comparision to 1st.
eg - Kessel is not someone to build team around...but he is a star...on any team.
eg - Gardiner is overhyped right now as savior of Leafs. After 1 yr?? What happens if he regresses for sophmore year..do we hang him like we are Colborne??
eg - Gardiner is overhyped right now as savior of Leafs. After 1 yr?? What happens if he regresses for sophmore year..do we hang him like we are Colborne??
You don't have to make a decision on anybody to do anything when a kid struggles, this is just a discussion talking about a player's development.
Furthermore, is it just me, or is it hilarious and pathetic how Leafs fans seem to think sophomore slumps are normal/acceptable occurrences in player development? It's like we've had so many garbage prospects that we wouldn't know what to do with linear progression if it happened before our very eyes...
Yeah overall the season sucked, well some of it. The first half was really good. I wouldn't place all the blame on one bottom sixer though or the GM cause there were lot's of injuries to key players (Reimer, etc) and unexpected slumps from players like Kulemin. You just never know, happens to the best of them.
I've seen him play a bunch of times against the Bulldogs and on TV and I think he makes good passes, cycles and keeps his head up which is good but I don't know if that is going to be good enough for a 2nd line position. His skating needs to improve and his body-checking which is pretty hard to do in the latter stages of player and personal development. I don't think he's a great prospect for the Leafs. I think there is a lot of better ones but they are much further away from reaching the NHL.
No that's not even close beauchamp, replacing other people's words as you just implied would be putting words in my mouth and spinning the truth. Unfortunately for you and Gatorade I did'nt say this. It must suck when you have nothing to back up your claims and if you're going to get so worked up about it you should attempt these silly things on someone who isn't aware of what's really going on in the future.
A bust isn't someone who is a NHL'er. There's your lesson for the day.
I'm not sure I agree with that. That might be your definition but other people have different expectations, I'd say. I think he made a pretty fair point in saying that Patrick Stefan was a bust even though he played in the NHL. I guess it comes down to expectations and let's be honest, Joe Colborne was being talked about as a #2 centreman on this team. From that particular reference point maybe he'd might just be a bust, but that isn't to say he won't make the NHL.
I think Joe can be an NHL player, he's just got to put in the effort..
Furthermore, is it just me, or is it hilarious and pathetic how Leafs fans seem to think sophomore slumps are normal/acceptable occurrences in player development? It's like we've had so many garbage prospects that we wouldn't know what to do with linear progression if it happened before our very eyes...
What you say is kinda the point I'm making on overhyping players.
It IS wrong they slump in T.O sophmore years. I agree. i'm actually a NJ fan, but live in Ont., and support the Leafs as they are very close, and I hardley ever get to see my team play.
So why do Sophmore Leafs struggle often?
1) Is it the media drives them to the brink after a great rookie campaign?
2) Is it coaches pushing them to more ice time/top lines due to hype/overblown expectations?
3) Is it the relentless fans saying "he's as good as (fill in any hall of famer name)"
These are just a few reasons I think it may cause it. IMO only...may not even be fact.
As for Colborne I think he's just mismanaged in T.O. should have never been sent up, then down, then changed to more defensive...and most of all I think he'd make a much better winger. That's all.
One player is currently a NHL'er in his 5th straight NHL season and the other player has failed to have more then 2 consecutive NHL seasons, he's also currently an AHL'er. That's quite a big difference, clearly there is a lot more to Steckel's skill set if he's been able to stay up with the big club (not just in Toronto mind you for the sake of being unbiased) rather than more down in the minors like Zigo has been doing his entire career.
Zigomanis - 459 AHL games played vs 197 NHL games played
Steckel - 208 AHL games played vs 385 NHL games played
Yeah...imagine where the Leafs would have ended up in the standing had they kept the 4th rounder and went with farmhand Zigomanis as their PK/Faceoff specialist. Oh boy...they would have plummetted down the standings. Joke.
