When Couturier was drafted last year they called him a Jordan Staal type. NHL ready and very good two way player. I like the comparison from what I have seen this year. He is a great shut down defensive forward and he put up respectable numbers for playing on the 4th line.
Staal has been a great pro but let's use him as an example.......2nd overall pick in 2006 entry draft and In his rookie year he got 29 goals......Wow!! That year he got 42 points as a rookie then sofmore slumped to 28 points in his 2nd season then settled into a rythem of back to back 49 point seasons before running into some injury issues over the past two seasons. Jordan is a heck of a player and I would love to have him on our team. That same year two other guys picked right by Staal were Toews and Backstrom who both returned to the teams they were on and didn't play in the NHL despite being drafted higher than Scheifele was this past season. I am sure in Staal's rookie season Chicago and Washington fans were jealous and short sighted like a few posters on HF boards are
We all know about Toews.....1st line centre averages about 70 points a season and is an elite talent who is better than Staal IMHO ...and yea Backstrom in his top two seasons averaged 95 points a year and is a top scorer in the NHL when healthy. Did Staal make these guys look bad in his rookie season with his 29 goals and great two way play.....yea he was so ready to go.......was he the best long term pick???
I have seen Couturier play and like him but He was the 5th centre taken in the draft guys so more teams than the Jets passed on him and it was for a reason.....maybe they were looking for a #1 centre like Florida in Huberdeau who they felt was more offensively gifted (I would take him today in a heart beat over Couturier)......maybe the Isles liked Stome's offensive upside more and felt he would make a great #2 centre behind Tavares?? Scheif's numbers in the OHL have been similar to Strome's this season. Ottawa saw something in Zimbanejad and have him parked in the Sweedish league playing 26 games this year developing in practice I hope
All I know is our Scouts, like 4 teams before us, liked another centre more than Couturier and they probably looked at the 6'3" kid who had loads of offensive skills, great attitude, and work ethic and felt his ceiling was #1 centre.
You know what I would bet as well......last night as Zinger and Chevy watched Couturier have a career night they were not suprised. I would also bet they wouldn't change anything if they could go back to draft night.
In the spirit of Toews, Backstrom, Modano, Sakic, Eberle, the list goes on forever of the players who didn't go strait to the NHL we might want to breath........this is not a zero sum game Couturier looks like he is going to be a fine two way centre and nobody can tell me his offensive upside. Scheifele has progressed nicely this season and nobody can tell me he won't be our number 1 centre YET.....it is quite possible both teams got their man!
I guess the thing that separates Scheifele from guys like J.Staal or J.Toews is that those guys were projected to be top flight centers by most teams and Scheifele wasn't..
Scheifeles numbers this year in the ohl were about what J.Staal put up as a 17 year old, Toews played college or university so its kind of hard to compare..but when you take Couturiers junior numbers they far exceed those of Jordan Staal..
I think winnipeg missed out on a pretty obvious franchise center, I can see Scheifele putting up 45-55 points some day, solid..Jared Stoll type numbers..(this year being an exception), sure hes a hard worker, great attitude..most kids in the top ten have those qualities..
The fact he played on a poor junior team I dont think makes that much of a difference, if anything it means he gets a ton of ice time, great players put up great junior numbers no matter what team they play on
When Couturier was drafted last year they called him a Jordan Staal type. NHL ready and very good two way player. I like the comparison from what I have seen this year. He is a great shut down defensive forward and he put up respectable numbers for playing on the 4th line.
Staal has been a great pro but let's use him as an example.......2nd overall pick in 2006 entry draft and In his rookie year he got 29 goals......Wow!! That year he got 42 points as a rookie then sofmore slumped to 28 points in his 2nd season then settled into a rythem of back to back 49 point seasons before running into some injury issues over the past two seasons. Jordan is a heck of a player and I would love to have him on our team. That same year two other guys picked right by Staal were Toews and Backstrom who both returned to the teams they were on and didn't play in the NHL despite being drafted higher than Scheifele was this past season. I am sure in Staal's rookie season Chicago and Washington fans were jealous and short sighted like a few posters on HF boards are
We all know about Toews.....1st line centre averages about 70 points a season and is an elite talent who is better than Staal IMHO ...and yea Backstrom in his top two seasons averaged 95 points a year and is a top scorer in the NHL when healthy. Did Staal make these guys look bad in his rookie season with his 29 goals and great two way play.....yea he was so ready to go.......was he the best long term pick???
I have seen Couturier play and like him but He was the 5th centre taken in the draft guys so more teams than the Jets passed on him and it was for a reason.....maybe they were looking for a #1 centre like Florida in Huberdeau who they felt was more offensively gifted (I would take him today in a heart beat over Couturier)......maybe the Isles liked Stome's offensive upside more and felt he would make a great #2 centre behind Tavares?? Scheif's numbers in the OHL have been similar to Strome's this season. Ottawa saw something in Zimbanejad and have him parked in the Sweedish league playing 26 games this year developing in practice I hope
All I know is our Scouts, like 4 teams before us, liked another centre more than Couturier and they probably looked at the 6'3" kid who had loads of offensive skills, great attitude, and work ethic and felt his ceiling was #1 centre.
You know what I would bet as well......last night as Zinger and Chevy watched Couturier have a career night they were not suprised. I would also bet they wouldn't change anything if they could go back to draft night.
In the spirit of Toews, Backstrom, Modano, Sakic, Eberle, the list goes on forever of the players who didn't go strait to the NHL we might want to breath........this is not a zero sum game Couturier looks like he is going to be a fine two way centre and nobody can tell me his offensive upside. Scheifele has progressed nicely this season and nobody can tell me he won't be our number 1 centre YET.....it is quite possible both teams got there man!
End rant
Toews wanted another year of seasoning, I remember the team wantin him to stay but he wanted to work on his game,
They loved eberle in edmonton and said he was good enough (he absolutely lit it up in pre-season)
But they didn't want to rush him because of his size..
By the way I'm a big jets fan(bigger oil fan though)..really want scheifele to succeed, I really hope I'm wrong but I don't see anything more than a 45-55 point player, like I said solid, Stoll like numbers..just not a number one center by any means
I guess the thing that separates Scheifele from guys like J.Staal or J.Toews is that those guys were projected to be top flight centers by most teams and Scheifele wasn't..
Scheifeles numbers this year in the ohl were about what J.Staal put up as a 17 year old, Toews played college or university so its kind of hard to compare..but when you take Couturiers junior numbers they far exceed those of Jordan Staal.. I think winnipeg missed out on a pretty obvious franchise center, I can see Scheifele putting up 45-55 points some day, solid..Jared Stoll type numbers..(this year being an exception), sure hes a hard worker, great attitude..most kids in the top ten have those qualities..
The fact he played on a poor junior team I dont think makes that much of a difference, if anything it means he gets a ton of ice time, great players put up great junior numbers no matter what team they play on
You think Couturier is a franchise centre??
Much like Mark perhaps a top line centre....
I guess the thing that separates Scheifele from guys like J.Staal or J.Toews is that those guys were projected to be top flight centers by most teams and Scheifele wasn't..
Scheifeles numbers this year in the ohl were about what J.Staal put up as a 17 year old, Toews played college or university so its kind of hard to compare..but when you take Couturiers junior numbers they far exceed those of Jordan Staal..
I think winnipeg missed out on a pretty obvious franchise center, I can see Scheifele putting up 45-55 points some day, solid..Jared Stoll type numbers..(this year being an exception), sure hes a hard worker, great attitude..most kids in the top ten have those qualities..
The fact he played on a poor junior team I dont think makes that much of a difference, if anything it means he gets a ton of ice time, great players put up great junior numbers no matter what team they play on
We shall see.....my point was Staal peaked quickly and is good but it was not case closed after his rookie season. Nor is it case closed that Couturier is going to end up better than the centers that were drafted above him that are not in the NHL yet.
I disagree with you that Winnipeg missed out on a "pretty obvious franchise centre" in Coururier. It's away too early to tell if he will reach franchise centre level.
I am not saying Scheifele will end up as our number 1 centre but I am not willing to cap him short of that yet based on what I have seen.
Toews wanted another year of seasoning, I remember the team wantin him to stay but he wanted to work on his game,
They loved eberle in edmonton and said he was good enough (he absolutely lit it up in pre-season)
But they didn't want to rush him because of his size..
By the way I'm a big jets fan(bigger oil fan though)..really want scheifele to succeed, I really hope I'm wrong but I don't see anything more than a 45-55 point player, like I said solid, Stoll like numbers..just not a number one center by any means
With Eberle he spent 2 years in juniors after he was drafted Which I think reinforces my point that for whatever reason if a player is sent back it does not mean they won't be great one day.
Was Schiefele a reach? Yes, absolutely. He was ranked in the mid first round, second rounder. Everyone was surprised with the pick - TSN, everyone ...
That being said, I too hope he becomes the player we need him to be.
Year 1 over - Courturier wins hands down. He played a significant role with the Flyers in the regular season and now in the playoffs. Schief is still developing but he's not playing up to his potential talent level, yet.
Year 2 potential - Courturier will likely play a bigger role. He's also learning how to win at the NHL level. Schief doesn't appear to be ready to make the club or AHL.
If Building through the draft means taking the best young player and allowing him to develop, I sure hope Chevy does something in FA or we'll be waiting 5-6 years based on his moneyball approach of finding spare part players instead of skill. But it's far too early to tell who is the better career player - I sure hope Chevy knows what he's doing
Someone brought up the example earlier in the thread, but just look at Gagner vs. Couture in 2007.
Gagner had better stats than Couture in their draft year, made the Oilers out of camp and put up 49 points as a rookie. Fast forward 5 years and Gagner is still a consistent 40+ point center, but Couture is putting up 30 goals a year.
Was Schiefele a reach? Yes, absolutely. He was ranked in the mid first round, second rounder. Everyone was surprised with the pick - TSN, everyone ...
That being said, I too hope he becomes the player we need him to be.
Year 1 over - Courturier wins hands down. He played a significant role with the Flyers in the regular season and now in the playoffs. Schief is still developing but he's not playing up to his potential talent level, yet.
Year 2 potential - Courturier will likely play a bigger role. He's also learning how to win at the NHL level. Schief doesn't appear to be ready to make the club or AHL.
If Building through the draft means taking the best young player and allowing him to develop, I sure hope Chevy does something in FA or we'll be waiting 5-6 years based on his moneyball approach of finding spare part players instead of skill. But it's far too early to tell who is the better career player - I sure hope Chevy knows what he's doing
Go Jets Go!
Can you find me something that says this because I never heard anything like that?
Fyi, Schiefele can't make the AHL next year. Not eligible.
Honestly, I feel like this debate is pointless right now considering we are only one whole stupid year removed from the draft. They're both teenagers. At least wait a few years.
Didn't Hawerchuk say Scheifele may need another year in the OHL? If my memory is correct it was when he was talking about Telegin? Perhaps not, but I thought something along those lines were said by Dale.
C'mon folks, surely if you class yourself as "educated" hockey fans then you know how pointless it is to compare Sheifele to Couturier at this stage in their careers!?!
I think that if it's okay to debate Scheifele vs. Couturier on draft day, then it is legitimate to do it a year later when everyone has seen them play quite a bit more. That doesn't mean that either are finished products, but it is a bit easier to judge them now.
For me, Scheifele hasn't developed as well or as quickly as I had hoped this year in junior. Couturier has been better than I expected with Philly.
Still, I think it is too early to say who will have the better career in the long-term.
Not really looking to get into a debate. I'm sure most will disagree with me but I'd rather have Courturier on my team.
This is 100% cool........I have no issues with people who say they would have preferred Couturier at the time of the draft and or even now. It does make allot of sense when you see Sean playing so well defensively for the Flyer's.
My only issue is when people pretend they know how Mark will turn out 2 or 3 years from now?
C'mon folks, surely if you class yourself as "educated" hockey fans then you know how pointless it is to compare Sheifele to Couturier at this stage in their careers!?!
Sure it's early but if Scheff needs another year of junior and then maybe a year or two in the AHL then making comparisons is pointless when the obvious is so pronounced. But then again Courturier could suffer through a year of the Sophomore jinx..
Guys lets keep in mind Couturier had one big game alongside a worldclass player in Giroux, and it happened to be on a huge stage. If Scheifele stayed with Jets, he likely would have had similar numbers throughout the regular season.
Remember Shiefele's production in pre-season? His 4 point game? I think we could see a lot more of this and I still like his upside. Both can go on to be very talented players, I will put my stock in Chevy and his scout team though
This is 100% cool........I have no issues with people who say they would have preferred Couturier at the time of the draft and or even now. It does make allot of sense when you see Sean playing so well defensively for the Flyer's.
My only issue is when people pretend they know how Mark will turn out 2 or 3 years from now?
Guys lets keep in mind Couturier had one big game alongside a worldclass player in Giroux, and it happened to be on a huge stage. If Scheifele stayed with Jets, he likely would have had similar numbers throughout the regular season.
Remember Shiefele's production in pre-season? His 4 point game? I think we could see a lot more of this and I still like his upside. Both can go on to be very talented players, I will put my stock in Chevy and his scout team though
Think your forgetting that Scheff didn't exactly have NHL speed yet, which is one aspect of his game that I hope has improved considerably.
On the plus side his hockey sense seemed a lot higher than a couple of first rounders who played with the Jets this season and his release was as quick as anyone currently on the team.
Yeah, I don't mind comparing generally, as in "I think Couturier has the higher upside" (since that's really what we're guessing at here and there is no right or wrong answer) or if someone has other reasons for preferring Couturier, like play-style or whatever.
What drives me nuts is just when the debate "evidence" is either "Couturier's in the NHL and Scheifele isn't, case closed" (no, it's not) or "Couturier had a hat-trick in the playoffs, Jets made a mistake AINEC."
Didn't Hawerchuk say Scheifele may need another year in the OHL? If my memory is correct it was when he was talking about Telegin? Perhaps not, but I thought something along those lines were said by Dale.
Dale did mention that in an interview on Hustler and Lawless but in fairness Mark had hit a wall at that point in the season and was struggling (post WJC)....From all accounts Mark has upped his game in the playoffs despite getting targeted and run heavlily by Mississauga and Ottawa. A reporter in the Barrie Examener had mentioned that Mark was the engine driving the offense for the Colts in the Playoffs. So much will depend on how Mark develops this off season.
I would have no issue (personally) if Mark followed the Eberle path and took another year in Juniors before joining the Jets and I would also not have a problem if Mark spent the following year in the AHL and followed a path like Cody Hodgson (drafted 8th overall in the 1st round).......my expectations are that Scheif is on the 2nd line by 2014-15.
The good news about this path is if Mark is a late bloomer he will be on his entry level contract up until he is 23 and a RFA up until he is 27 (pending new CBA). I am sure we can all agree that that will be refreshing
Well we cant turn back time. I would have prefered Couter over Schief after reading about both of them before the draft. And as a few people mentioned above, it is absurd to compare the two when one is not in the NHL yet.
Am I upset with who we drafted? Absolutley not.
I believe Schief will be a more offensve player but will take longer to develop. Further more I believe Tele and Schief will hopefully grow together and eventually come into the NHL together.....may be a stretch but it could create some potent offense... I realize they both play C but there could be some chemstry there
Couter would of been nice as a fantastic/amazing two way NHL ready player but we may have a dynamic duo coming up in the near future and hopefully a superstar in Schief.........No pressure ........ Crossing fingers
Well we cant turn back time. I would have prefered Couter over Schief after reading about both of them before the draft. And as a few people mentioned above, it is absurd to compare the two when one is not in the NHL yet.
Am I upset with who we drafted? Absolutley not.
I believe Schief will be a more offensve player but will take longer to develop. Further more I believe Tele and Schief will hopefully grow together and eventually come into the NHL together.....may be a stretch but it could create some potent offense... I realize they both play C but there could be some chemstry there
Couter would of been nice as a fantastic/amazing two way NHL ready player but we may have a dynamic duo coming up in the near future and hopefully a superstar in Schief.........No pressure ........ Crossing fingers
GO Jets GO
Agree with your whole post, but have to mention: Telegin's been playing the wing for the whole season this year. Suits him, really: let's him use his speed. Scheifele has been quite amazing in the d-zone, but he seems to suit that responsibility more than Telegin does.
I must be in the minority (or maybe just quiet majority), but I think Scheifele's going to be a gem of a pick in a few years.
Agree with your whole post, but have to mention: Telegin's been playing the wing for the whole season this year. Suits him, really: let's him use his speed. Scheifele has been quite amazing in the d-zone, but he seems to suit that responsibility more than Telegin does.
I must be in the minority (or maybe just quiet majority), but I think Scheifele's going to be a gem of a pick in a few years.
No **** hey! that puts a bigger smile on my face
I have only been able to watch one game but I was at work so it was really hard to deal with clients and run back to catch the game.
Agree with your whole post, but have to mention: Telegin's been playing the wing for the whole season this year. Suits him, really: let's him use his speed. Scheifele has been quite amazing in the d-zone, but he seems to suit that responsibility more than Telegin does.
I must be in the minority (or maybe just quiet majority), but I think Scheifele's going to be a gem of a pick in a few years.
Totally agree with you, my hope is he turns out to be a big 70+ pt center who takes care of his own end, a-la "Big Joe" Thorton
Crossing fingers
