Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Ok since Duchene's name has been brought up involving Anaheim for either their 6th over all + Etem or for Ryan. As well as in a thread involving MTL.
I am curious as to any other offers there might be. I want a top 5 draft pick plus a blue chip wing prospect. (If the pick is not quite in the top 5 add.. We would be trying to flip a package to get there if possible.)
Other Avs fans seem to want someone of at least Ryan's caliber as a proven top line winger.
--
On Duchene's season.. You can knock about 20 games off of his 58 games played on the year. In fact you can knock the last 20 off. He tried to play injured the last half of the year because we were trying to make the playoffs.
He had injuries to both legs. Not serious but an ankle and a knee sprain on different legs. Knocking the games off that he played injured.. Hes paces for about 61 points on the year.
On top of all that? The majority of the games he played while healthy he played out of his natural position at LW. He had zero chemistry with Stastny except a few games here and there. By the time he was moved back to center Hejduk had fallen off the map and Mueller was no where to be found.
Even while playing injured he never got a chance to play with any wingers who were actually producing.
So no Avs fan will accept any less for him now because we all know what happened between the organization and his injuries.
---
The question now for Avs fans is since O'Reilly & Stastny seems to be the favorites of a coach who just got a 2 year extension. Duchene is wasted being 3rd on the Coaches depth chart. (Retarded IMO) Especially while we need a top line winger that we have no guarantee of getting in free-agency.
For Duchene so far..
Ryan (Pretty much straight up)
Etem + 6th & 36th over all (My favorite, I think the step back was taken by the organization by drafting nothing but centers besides Landeskog for god knows how long. It needs to be fixed right now so that guys can grow with the core.)
Subban + (Subban does not fit for Avs because he is right handed. We have to many right handed puck movers in the system as it is.)
Just wondering if anyone else could come up with anything interesting assuming Duchene is made available.
I really don't think ducks would add that 2nd with out Colorado's second coming back. Anaheim success with 2nd round picks is unusually high (DSP, Schultz, etc...)
As far as value, I think it's smart to look at what other plays of close value netted as well. I would say Richards and Carter (when he was traded from Philly) are pretty close. I would consider Duchene as more valuable then Carter when he was traded to LA, but not when he was traded to CBJ. IMO his failures at CB dropped his value. I would think his value in a return would be slightly lower then what Philly got for those two, which is why I think Etem+6th overall is pretty close. Ducks could probably add another 2nd level prospect like Clark.
So from Anaheim I'd do:
Etem+Clark+6th overall
I would not trade him for Ryan with Selanne retiring soon and the possibility of Perry leaving next offseason lingering.
Maybe the OP should relax on the Avs trade proposals for a while.
The Avs will not be trading Duchene.
There's nothing wrong with him asking the value of the player. Considering he's not been playing center and there's been some reports of minor conflict between him and Sacco, I'd say it's a possibility, although remote. He probably won't be traded but I don't see the harm in someone asking for a players value.
I really don't think ducks would add that 2nd with out Colorado's second coming back. Anaheim success with 2nd round picks is unusually high (DSP, Schultz, etc...)
As far as value, I think it's smart to look at what other plays of close value netted as well. I would say Richards and Carter (when he was traded from Philly) are pretty close. I would consider Duchene as more valuable then Carter when he was traded to LA, but not when he was traded to CBJ. IMO his failures at CB dropped his value. I would think his value in a return would be slightly lower then what Philly got for those two, which is why I think Etem+6th overall is pretty close. Ducks could probably add another 2nd level prospect like Clark.
So from Anaheim I'd do:
Etem+Clark+6th overall
I would not trade him for Ryan with Selanne retiring soon and the possibility of Perry leaving next offseason lingering.
You really think Perry could be leaving? Etem "Could" be just as good as Ryan is right now.
What makes Duchene different from Richards and Carter is he does not have the history those two do. Negative or positive.. Hes 21..
His value is better because you could still get 15 years out of him with most of those being 60-80 point seasons.
As far as value, I think it's smart to look at what other plays of close value netted as well. I would say Richards and Carter (when he was traded from Philly) are pretty close. I would consider Duchene as more valuable then Carter when he was traded to LA, but not when he was traded to CBJ. IMO his failures at CB dropped his value. I would think his value in a return would be slightly lower then what Philly got for those two, which is why I think Etem+6th overall is pretty close. Ducks could probably add another 2nd level prospect like Clark.
You have to remember that in both of those trades Philly had an established NHL player going their way. It wasn't top prospect and a pick. If it was DSP instead of Etem, then I would agree with your assessment. I think you'd need to offset that somehow if it's Etem.
In the remote possibility he is traded, here's some facts.
To this point, Greg Sherman's MO has been young underachieving or on the verge of breaking out players (Mueller, McGinn, Fleischmann, O'Byrne).
He has not attempted to acquire draft picks as the basis of a deal, but rather young prospects with some development (Sgarbossa, Connelly, Porter).
He is willing to pay fair to above fair price when it addresses a team need and it involves a significantly skilled young player (Johnson, Varlamov).
Matt Duchene meanwhile grew up an Avs fan and has shown tremendous talent. Any potential deal would be centered around what he can (and will) put up in the future, versus what he did last season.
With all of that in mind, it's pretty easy to conclude that A. The deal would have to involve a relatively young left handed #1 defender or top flight goal scoring winger or B. Duchene's price would be more expensive than most teams would feel comfortable paying (which is probably what happened with Stastny).
In the remote possibility he is traded, here's some facts.
To this point, Greg Sherman's MO has been young underachieving or on the verge of breaking out players (Mueller, McGinn, Fleischmann, O'Byrne).
He has not attempted to acquire draft picks as the basis of a deal, but rather young prospects with some development (Sgarbossa, Connelly, Porter).
He is willing to pay fair to above fair price when it addresses a team need and it involves a significantly skilled young player (Johnson, Varlamov).
Matt Duchene meanwhile grew up an Avs fan and has shown tremendous talent. Any potential deal would be centered around what he can (and will) put up in the future, versus what he did last season.
With all of that in mind, it's pretty easy to conclude that A. The deal would have to involve a relatively young left handed #1 defender or top flight goal scoring winger or B. Duchene's price would be more expensive than most teams would feel comfortable paying (which is probably what happened with Stastny).
Obviously why I am curious as to what we could get. I think I made it clear that no one is letting Duchene's value slide much due to last season. At least those who know in detail how and what happened with his season. I did say.. "Assuming hes made available"
Even though others may say it's not true.. Any fan who has paid attention to what has happened still has him in the same class as.. Tavares, Hall, Seguin, & Eberle. He has out performed all of them except for one controversial season. You don't give up on a player with his talent because of one season. (Also why Sacco is a retard.. But that is another argument)
Last edited by CobraAcesS: 04-14-2012 at 11:22 PM.
He wasn't very good this season. Some of this poor play was because of injuries and some of it was a result of him trying to do too much and just making bad decisions out there.
But he also had two very good seasons as an 18 and 19 year old. Luckily, Avs management has more patience than posters on HFBoards and they're not just going to trade the 21 year old because of this past season. He's not going anywhere.
How does trading Duchene for two unproven players (Etem+6th pick) help the Avs? Same with 12th overall + Armia? Same with the 3rd overall pick from the Habs?
The Avs are starting to come out of a rebuild and Duchene is a big part of the future. Trading him for picks and prospects makes no sense. They would be going backwards if they make a deal like that.
I would do the 12th overall + Armia and any of Leopold/Weber/Brennan. That doesn't beat out that Ducks proposal though :/
Anaheim does kind of have a underrated embarrassment of riches when it comes to wing prospects. Geez..
We would have the same thing as far as centers but they all decided to make the NHL INSTANTLY. lol Well we do still have two not in the NHL at this point. (Thanks SJ =)
I would counter with Duchene ++ to get Myers + Armia
The problem with Armia & the 12th is they both would probably be 1-2 years out at best. If we are trading Duchene we need at least one piece that could possible step in next year.
Etem is there with his size but Armia is not quite IMO. Plus the higher pick offsets that a little.
It would be pretty cool IMO to see Duchene + Hodgson as a one two punch. Seeing as they played together in Juniors.
I would take that because the first thing I would do with that pick is try and flip it for Brayden Schenn.
Having both brothers play together could really spark both of them. Not that Brayden needs it but Luke sure does. Go setup a three-way.. Get us Brayden with that 5th and you can have Duchene + for both of them.
Isn't B. Schenn better at RW anyways? Could have sworn I seen a Flyers fan say that. Landeskog - O'Reilly - Schenn is drool worthy.
EJ / Schenn
Elliott / Siemens
Hejda / O'Byrne
as D next season is drool worthy as well. (Yeah I realize Elliott & Siemens are question marks, but if Elliott adds to his frame it could happen. Reports are that D. Siemens is closer to 6'4" 200lbs now as well as having developed a more sound defensive game in his own end. He has lost some offensive production since losing Elliott though.)
Last edited by CobraAcesS: 04-15-2012 at 12:04 AM.
He wasn't very good this season. Some of this poor play was because of injuries and some of it was a result of him trying to do too much and just making bad decisions out there.
But he also had two very good seasons as an 18 and 19 year old. Luckily, Avs management has
more patience than posters on HFBoards and they're not just going to trade the 21 year old because of this past season. He's not going anywhere.
How does trading Duchene for two unproven players (Etem+6th pick) help the Avs? Same with 12th overall + Armia? Same with the
3rd overall pick from the Habs?
The Avs are starting to come out of a rebuild and Duchene is a big part of the future. Trading him for
picks and prospects makes no sense. They would be going backwards if they make a deal like that.
Almost exactly what I was trying to say in the other thread. Zero point in trading Duchene for futures, sets the team back.
But CobraAcesS seems to have
some sort of infatuation with trading Duchene for picks and
prospects. Unless were getting a proven young player of equal value in return, then Duchene is not going anywhere. I don't have a clue why Cobra keeps creating Duchene proposals, all of them involving picks with nothing proven coming back. Seriously man, just stop.
Almost exactly what I was trying to say in the other thread. Zero point in trading Duchene for futures, sets the team back.
But CobraAcesS seems to have
some sort of infatuation with trading Duchene for picks and
prospects. Unless were getting a proven young player of equal value in return, then Duchene is not going anywhere. I don't have a clue why Cobra keeps creating Duchene proposals, all of them involving picks with nothing proven coming back. Seriously man, just stop.
OMG lol you and me often agree on stuff.. I agree with one part of what you say but not with the other..
It's so rare that a top 10 pick and a bluechip prospect don't pan out. You can't tell me the idea of possibly two 30 goal wingers does not at least get your interest. That is what I would be trying to accomplish..
My other favorite is L. Schenn + 5th over all (Provided we could pull B. Schenn with that pick)
I do realize it sets us back a bit but we have NOTHING coming as far as 30 goal wingers. I totally agreed with trading Duchene for a proven 30 goal winger of Ryan's caliber.
I also only started one thread. But yes I responded to Anaheim's thread looking for a high end young center. Which we talked about both proposals.
Here I was just trying to see if there would be any other legit offers. I also would not call a counter of Duchene + for Myers + Armia just picks and prospects.
Trust me I have not given up on Duchene at all.. (I am just afraid that Duchene's value drops even more because we don't get him any wingers and Sacco is coming back!! =(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19
The Avs are starting to come out of a rebuild and Duchene is a big part of the future. Trading him for picks and prospects makes no sense. They would be going backwards if they make a deal like that.
In my defense it worked out pretty good for the Flyers and the two centers they traded had slightly less value than Duchene.
Last edited by CobraAcesS: 04-15-2012 at 12:35 AM.
As an Isles fan, I would offer the #4 pick and Nielsen. Maybe a little more but, lets face it. Dude gets hurt a lot
LOL.. Two minor injuries in 3 seasons is not injured a lot. Classic bash proposal.. And Avs fans think I am nuts..
Nielsen.. Really? You couldn't do better than him?
Counter..
4th Over all + Strome/Ninio + 34th over all.
That's mostly for spite.. All in all NYI has no reason to trade for a center because you have Strome on the way.
If Avs could pull say the 6th then I would be trying to package that 6th with something for your 4th so we could draft the forward we want and you could get a top pairing D plus..
Anaheim will not be moving Etem. Palmieri will be shipped before the local boy. Anaheim is a budget team that looks to make a profit and shipping away a potential cash cow is not good business. However I will say winning creates $$$ and Duchene could offset the loss of an Etem however the Ducks will give him every chance to be successful before they are willing to part ay with him.
Anaheim will not be moving Etem. Palmieri will be shipped before the local boy. Anaheim is a budget team that looks to make a profit and shipping away a potential cash cow is not good business. However I will say winning creates $$$ and Duchene could offset the loss of an Etem however the Ducks will give him every chance to be successful before they are willing to part ay with him.
Well no one agrees with me about Etem's worth so nothing to worry about there.
Just to put this to bed so you're not speculating anymore, there's no way in hell the Flyers trade Schenn for an unproven pick. He's 20 and producing at a level we saw from Giroux when he was 20, so the 5th overall would be the starting point in a package for him. So that proposal can be put to bed.
Just to put this to bed so you're not speculating anymore, there's no way in hell the Flyers trade Schenn for an unproven pick. He's 20 and producing at a level we saw from Giroux when he was 20, so the 5th overall would be the starting point in a package for him. So that proposal can be put to bed.
Ive seen that but have not exactly seen anyone add anything that was not ridiculous to a pick like that. You guys are on a JVR rant about Schenn and Couts now.. Schenn is not even close to the level Duchene was at 20.. 18 points in 54 games? I know hes good but "proven" is not a word I would use.
Your organization will eventually have to trade or do something about the coming loss of two of your top D.
Pronger and Timonen will not be around forever.
Last edited by CobraAcesS: 04-15-2012 at 01:26 AM.
Ive seen that but have not exactly seen anyone add anything that was not ridiculous to a pick like that. You guys are on a JVR rant about Schenn and Couts now..
Your organization will eventually have to trade or do something about the coming loss of two of your top D.
Pronger and Timonen will not be around forever.
They very well may have to trade one of them, but they don't right now, which is why they won't just dump off Schenn for a pick that will most likely yield a prospect that is not as good as Schenn, both now and in the future. So what is the point of making that trade, especially when none of the defensemen in the draft have value to make you think they could ever replace Pronger or Timonen?
