Paul Holmgren

[duffy9748]

First off, let me say I think this series is far from over and could see Pittsburgh playing well in Philadelphia. They've won several big games in Philadelphia and have been down 2-0 before. Saying that, Paul Holmgren deserves a ton of credit for pulling off one of the most ballsy overhauls of all time. Trading two star players who were the face of your franchise while they were in their prime and only 1 year away from the Stanley Cup Finals.

By those deals, he gave Claude Giroux the ice time to show what he can do and he has not disappointed. He garnered a hell of a return in getting Couturier/Voracek/Simmonds/Schenn. He signed and undrafted college kid in Matt Read and let him earn a spot on this roster. Not to mention they've played much of this year without James Vanriemsdyk. As good as these deals look now, they will look exponentially better five years from now.

Giroux
Couturier
Schenn
JVR
Voracek
Simmonds
Read
Wellwood

All of those guys are years away from their prime and have already proven to be quality NHL players. He also went off the board and made some questionable signings in getting Jagr and Talbot and they have both been very important to this teams success. Hell of a job, Holmgren!

[aLus]

You forgot to mention that Pronger has only played 13 games this season.

[InjuredChoker]

Lol, I was about to make a thread about this.

Pretty much everyone bashed him to death when he traded Richards away. Now he's looking like a genius. Pretty nice rebuild on the fly.

Game 1 Schenn stands out, Voracek scores the OT winner.
Game 2 Giroux, with increased responsibility (less on Carter and Richie) totally dominates, Couturier plays awesome game, shutting down and outscoring ART Ross and Hart Trophy winner.

Not bad.

[The Big Unit]

Originally Posted by kemisti

Lol, I was about to make a thread about this.

Pretty much everyone bashed him to death when he traded Richards away. Now he's looking like a genius. Pretty nice rebuild on the fly.

Game 1 Schenn stands out, Voracek scores the OT winner.
Game 2 Giroux, with increased responsibility (less on Carter and Richie) totally dominates, Couturier plays awesome game, shutting down and outscoring ART Ross and Hart Trophy winner.

Not bad.

Retool would be the term but those are some huge pieces that he moved out and for all the criticism he took, he deserves the credit now. I actually wonder about the GM of the year award, I know Holmgren isn't going to win.......but maybe he should get a long look.

[Tripod]

[QUOTE=duffy9748;47970559]First off, let me say I think this series is far from over and could see Pittsburgh playing well in Philadelphia. They've won several big games in Philadelphia and have been down 2-0 before. Saying that, Paul Holmgren deserves a ton of credit for pulling off one of the most ballsy overhauls of all time. Trading two star players who were the face of your franchise while they were in their prime and only 1 year away from the Stanley Cup Finals.

By those deals, he gave Claude Giroux the ice time to show what he can do and he has not disappointed. He garnered a hell of a return in getting Couturier/Voracek/Simmonds/Schenn. He signed and undrafted college kid in Matt Read and let him earn a spot on this roster. Not to mention they've played much of this year without James Vanriemsdyk. As good as these deals look now, they will look exponentially better five years from now.

Giroux
Couturier
Schenn
JVR
Voracek
Simmonds
Read
Wellwood

All of those guys are years away from their prime and have already proven to be quality NHL players. He also went off the board and made some questionable signings in getting Jagr and Talbot and they have both been very important to this teams success. Hell of a job, Holmgren![/QUOTE

They got Grossman with a pick they got from Richards as well. And Nick Cousins had a good year in Jr's...2nd line upside. 2 great trades...lots of risk...but has worked out!

[Play4Miracles*]

I'm proud to say that I was drinking the Kool-Aid while he was still stirring it. I applauded every move he made this summer right after they happened and I think they have all worked out. Signing Jagr was the icing on the cake of a career defineing summer for Holmgren.

I seriously wish he was the Sabres GM!!

When you factor in everything, the cap, the need for a #1 goalie, possible chemistry rift between established vets and rookies, keeping the lifeblood flowing for the long run, hiring the right coaches, just everything. Just a masterpeice, you just have to stand back and marvel. lol For Christ's sakes he even saved the team money?!? Too much MANager.

[Habsawce]

Originally Posted by kemisti

Lol, I was about to make a thread about this.

Pretty much everyone bashed him to death when he traded Richards away. Now he's looking like a genius. Pretty nice rebuild on the fly.

Game 1 Schenn stands out, Voracek scores the OT winner.
Game 2 Giroux, with increased responsibility (less on Carter and Richie) totally dominates, Couturier plays awesome game, shutting down and outscoring ART Ross and Hart Trophy winner.

Not bad.

I dont' remember anyone really bashing him for the moves. I think overall it was deemed risky, but heady and calculated by Holmgren.

Put in his position with the attitudes and behaviour exhibited by Richards and Carter I think most GM's would have done or at least tried to do what he did.

[Antropovsky]

My favorite gm, biggest pair award for sure. Colorado's gm comes in 2nd, he's got a big set too.

[Lexus]

Don't forget that they also have Meszaros on the injury list.

[Sureves]

Yeah well, hindsight is 20/20. Had he failed this year this thread would have a very different approach.

Clearly it was a move that paid of huge, but it was very high-risk move as well, one that you could argue didn't need to be made and one that could have cost him his job.

All that said yes, it worked out fantastic.

[Mr Forever]

I wish this guy was in charge of building the Oilers.

[Raym11]

Originally Posted by Sureves

Yeah well, hindsight is 20/20. Had he failed this year this thread would have a very different approach.

Clearly it was a move that paid of huge, but it was very high-risk move as well, one that you could argue didn't need to be made and one that could have cost him his job.

All that said yes, it worked out fantastic.

But it didnt fail, do you think Holmgren made the deal thinking "hopefully it fails, hindsight and everything you know"


Holmgren made those deals thinking and taking the risk on it making the team better. There is no hindsight, he took the risk where he BELIEVED it would make the team better and he was right.


He still believed enough to take the chance on it, so to me he gets full credit

[PALE PWNR]

Who do people think will win gm of the year? I have been seeing with more and more frequency that he deserves a nod but won't get it so who do people think will win?

[Sureves]

Originally Posted by Raym11

But it didnt fail, do you think Holmgren made the deal thinking "hopefully it fails, hindsight and everything you know"


Holmgren made those deals thinking and taking the risk on it making the team better. There is no hindsight, he took the risk where he BELIEVED it would make the team better and he was right.


He still believed enough to take the chance on it, so to me he gets full credit

No argument from me, but if it had failed he would very possibly have been fired.

[ponder]

He's a complete and utter CBA retard, but he really knows his hockey talent, and how to put a good team together. Takes risks, and they pay off.

I think his finest moment so far was what he did at the 06/07 deadline and the following offseason. He took over part way through the 06/07 season, when the team was failing horribly, and were by far the worst in the league (had just 56 points that year, 22-48-12). Instead of just wallowing in failure, he worked hard and turned the team around FAST. Sent an aging Forsberg to Nashville for Upshall, Parent and a 2007 1st and 3rd, then dealt that late 1st back to Nashville in the offseason for the negotiating rights to Timonen and Hartnell (pending UFAs). Also at the deadline he got a great young dman in Coburn for an aging Zhitnik, and added a solid goalie in Biron for a 2nd. Then signed Briere as a UFA in the offseason, and dealt the highly inconsistent Pitkanen for Lupul and Jason Smith. Basically, in the span of a 5 months or so, he totally revamped the team, and brought in a TONNE of great talent in Briere, Timonen, Hartnell, Coburn, Lupul, Biron, Upshall, Smith, etc. for basically nothing but an aging Forsberg, aging Zhitnik and inconsistent Pitkanen. They went to the conference finals in 07/08 after being the worst team in the league in 06/07, and have continued to make the playoffs every year since, some of the best work done by a GM in a short period of time since the lockout.

[hockeyfreak7]

Originally Posted by Sureves

No argument from me, but if it had failed he would very possibly have been fired.

Cant this logic be applied to...anything?

If Gretzky wasnt so good then the Oilers wouldnt have had a dynasty. If Bobby Orr wasnt such a good skater he wouldnt have been the best defenseman of all time....


Holmgren didnt fail. He quite clearly knew what he was getting into by making the moves...otherwise, he wouldnt have made them.

[RogerRoeper*]

Holmgren's trades of Carter and Richards were brilliant and unbelievably ballsy. That contract of Carter's was terrible and they wisely moved him before his NTC kicked-in.

I still think he ruined some of it by turning-around and giving Bryzgalov that terrible contract. But overall, great re-tooling.

[PanthersPens62]

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper

Holmgren's trades of Carter and Richards were brilliant and unbelievably ballsy. That contract of Carter's was terrible and they wisely moved him before his NTC kicked-in.

I still think he ruined some of it by turning-around and giving Bryzgalov that terrible contract. But overall, great re-tooling.

Couldn't agree more.

[Oilmageddon*]

I think that if Philly wins the cup playing firewagon offense hockey it will at least give the NHL a chance of not falling back into the dead puck era. Would love to see offence become game plans for coaches.

[Sureves]

Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7

Cant this logic be applied to...anything?

If Gretzky wasnt so good then the Oilers wouldnt have had a dynasty. If Bobby Orr wasnt such a good skater he wouldnt have been the best defenseman of all time....


Holmgren didnt fail. He quite clearly knew what he was getting into by making the moves...otherwise, he wouldnt have made them.

What I'm saying is that he didn't need to make those moves. He risked his job by making a complete overhaul, putting a lot of faith in what he believed in.

It worked out. But just because something works, doesn't necessarily mean it should have been done in the first place. You should live your life around process: not outcome.

I couldn't agree more it worked out fantastic for him and he looks like a genius, but I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have risked my job like that.

Kudos for him having the balls to do that, but I'm not sure it was a smart thing to do (in other words, if he was 70% sure it would work, but 30% sure it would fail, it's still not necessarily a good move...I think the expected-value of being fired would be higher under the "Blow it up" option than the "Stay put" option).

Just my two cents.

[Ogopogo*]

Paul Holmgren is a very good GM - maybe the best in the NHL.

The deals he made to acquire the players the OP mentions were very good. Perhaps the best example of his work is taking the worst team in the NHL in 2006-07 and in one off-season turning them into a perennial contender.

The man is decisive and intelligent. He knows how to build a winner. If the Oilers were to trade the #1 pick in the draft, it should be for Holmgren.

[PALE PWNR]

Originally Posted by Sureves

What I'm saying is that he didn't need to make those moves. He risked his job by making a complete overhaul, putting a lot of faith in what he believed in.

It worked out. But just because something works, doesn't necessarily mean it should have been done in the first place. You should live your life around process: not outcome.

I couldn't agree more it worked out fantastic for him and he looks like a genius, but I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have risked my job like that.

Kudos for him having the balls to do that, but I'm not sure it was a smart thing to do (in other words, if he was 70% sure it would work, but 30% sure it would fail, it's still not necessarily a good move...I think the expected-value of being fired would be higher under the "Blow it up" option than the "Stay put" option).

Just my two cents.

I think it was more like the owner came down and advised Mr Holmgren that he needed to get a real #1 goalie after the disaster in the playoffs last year. I think that there was also pressure from Mr Snider to move Richards and Carter and have a cohesive and unified locker room.

[Play4Miracles*]

Originally Posted by PALE PWNR

Who do people think will win gm of the year? I have been seeing with more and more frequency that he deserves a nod but won't get it so who do people think will win?

They have an award for GM of the year?

[Trance Kuja]

Every time I read Paul Holmgren's name in my head I say it like Liev Schreiber does in 24/7. I'm weird like that.

He's a great GM, though. In 1 year he turned a Flyer team that I hated into a team I no longer have resentful feelings for.

[Sureves]

Originally Posted by PALE PWNR

I think it was more like the owner came down and advised Mr Holmgren that he needed to get a real #1 goalie after the disaster in the playoffs last year. I think that there was also pressure from Mr Snider to move Richards and Carter and have a cohesive and unified locker room.

Certainly a possibility that I could imagine.