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04-15-2012, 02:00 AM
  #1
Jtown
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Converting Our forward Depth Into Dman

Our Forward Depth is insane right now. And that is with Sestito and JVR not in the lineup.

My question is who can we part ways with ( that makes sense) to get ourselves The Dman we need. Sadly we may have to part ways with one of our untouchables. So out of this list could is most likely to get us the Dman we need?


My list of untouchables are:

Briere, and Hartnell and Talbot, ( Leaders that give this team its persona)

Giroux, couturier, Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek ( Young top six guys)

Read, wellwood, Rinaldo, Sesitito ( Important because they are cheap and allow us to have the players mentioned above)

That leaves us with JVR, and Jagr as a FA

Also keep in mind we have akeson, cousins that could come in and be top 9 forwards for us on the cheap.





Trading JVR now would be silly cause his value is the lowest it could be. So out of the guys mentioned above who could net us a top 4 defenseman?

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04-15-2012, 03:10 AM
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BillDineen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Our Forward Depth is insane right now. And that is with Sestito and JVR not in the lineup.

My question is who can we part ways with ( that makes sense) to get ourselves The Dman we need. Sadly we may have to part ways with one of our untouchables. So out of this list could is most likely to get us the Dman we need?


My list of untouchables are:

Briere, and Hartnell and Talbot, ( Leaders that give this team its persona)

Giroux, couturier, Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek ( Young top six guys)

Read, wellwood, Rinaldo, Sesitito ( Important because they are cheap and allow us to have the players mentioned above)

That leaves us with JVR, and Jagr as a FA

Also keep in mind we have akeson, cousins that could come in and be top 9 forwards for us on the cheap.





Trading JVR now would be silly cause his value is the lowest it could be. So out of the guys mentioned above who could net us a top 4 defenseman?
While JVR gets put into trade proposals, I do not think Homer wants to trade him at all. Homer wanted to get bigger on the wings trading Richards and Carter for Simmonds and Voracek (+).

Timonen, Coburn, Grossman and Meszaros in place. Bourdon, Gus, Manning have shown they can fill a number 6 or 7 role. I think free agency fills out the 6. I think Carle wants too much and Kubina is unless and they walk.

1rst rounder and Bob could be assets used in a trade though.

Of course Homer is always predictable though.

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04-15-2012, 04:19 AM
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PALE PWNR
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I would prefer to keep our young forwards and embarrassment of riches. I would rather get d thru free agency and the draft. If an asset has to be traded along with pick I would prefer it to be bob. I like him a ton but we have bryz, it is what it is

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04-15-2012, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
I would prefer to keep our young forwards and embarrassment of riches. I would rather get d thru free agency and the draft. If an asset has to be traded along with pick I would prefer it to be bob. I like him a ton but we have bryz, it is what it is
At some point, we're going to run into the cap. Trading JVR makes the most sense to me. He hasn't been missed on this team. He's about to be a big contract. He's inconsistent and yet coveted around the league for his last playoffs. His value might not be at its peak but he is superfluous at this point, easily moved, and will clear out significant cap space.

If Holmgren can manage to nab Suter (fingers crossed), then trading JVR for picks/prospects would make a lot of sense to me.

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04-15-2012, 06:46 AM
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I wouldn't move any of the forwards. Our defense will be fine.

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04-15-2012, 07:27 AM
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ONTHEFLYGUY
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Our defense will be fine? While we're 2-0, our defense hasn't looked so good and while getting mez back helps, it won't fix alot of the problems

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04-15-2012, 08:03 AM
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trading JVR now or in the immediate future would be stupid.

1. His value is at an all time low and won't go back up unless he gets a chance to play a long stretch of games

2. He's only 23 and has plenty of time to develop. I understand he was inconsistent even when "healthy" this year but watch his scoring highlight video for this season, he still made some great plays.

Couts, Schenn, G, JVR, Simmonds and Jake all under 24 and I would try to keep them together going forward.

get d though free agency and the draft. if cap is a concern then move Briere (i know he's got a NMC) plus kimmo is coming off soon and will be re-signed for much less. the cap will also continue to go up (maybe not next season but def the following year) and Jagr will be gone after another year or so.

The D is not as bad as people make it out to be. Limit the turnovers and commit to the system as a 5 man unit. with Bryz in net I don't see this as a problem at all.

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04-15-2012, 08:30 AM
  #8
G Money
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
trading JVR now or in the immediate future would be stupid.

1. His value is at an all time low and won't go back up unless he gets a chance to play a long stretch of games

2. He's only 23 and has plenty of time to develop. I understand he was inconsistent even when "healthy" this year but watch his scoring highlight video for this season, he still made some great plays.

Couts, Schenn, G, JVR, Simmonds and Jake all under 24 and I would try to keep them together going forward.

get d though free agency and the draft. if cap is a concern then move Briere (i know he's got a NMC) plus kimmo is coming off soon and will be re-signed for much less. the cap will also continue to go up (maybe not next season but def the following year) and Jagr will be gone after another year or so.

The D is not as bad as people make it out to be. Limit the turnovers and commit to the system as a 5 man unit. with Bryz in net I don't see this as a problem at all.

i agree 100% (except for the 23 part he's still 22 for a few more weeks)
i hope jagr returns for another year with these young guys

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04-15-2012, 08:31 AM
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We are playing the best offense in the league, and we've given up 8 goals. 2 of which were PPG, 1 was weak by the goalie, and 1 was both icing and a bizarre bounce.

Bryzgalov had a 1.91 GAA from 1/14 on in the regular season, I think the defense can be fine and people are overreacting to 2 games against the league's best office.

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04-15-2012, 08:32 AM
  #10
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Trading JVR is awful. As I've said many, many times, his stats are identical to LeClair's at this point of his career, and he's 2 years younger because LeClair played four years at Vermont.

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04-15-2012, 08:34 AM
  #11
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stand pat with out forwards and draft defense defense defense

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04-15-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G Money View Post
i agree 100% (except for the 23 part he's still 22 for a few more weeks)
i hope jagr returns for another year with these young guys
i rounded up

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04-15-2012, 08:47 AM
  #13
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I don't particularly like the idea of trading JVR but the Flyers have really put themselves in a bad cap situation for next year, even with Pronger on LTIR. That will give them 7 million to resign Voracek ( he will be getting at least 3), replace Pronger/Carle since Carle with be walking, and fill out the rest of the roster. As someone else mentioned, all of the dmen from the Phantoms are of the 6/7 variety. A. Top four of Kimmo, Mez, Coburn, and Grossman is good but you should also be worried about injuries.
Some of this dilemma can be alleviated by signing Justin Schultz but that is probably a long shot.

If JVR can be traded for multiple good assets like Richards and Carter were, it will be worth it. Something like to Carolina for Dumoulin (or McBain if you prefer) and a 2nd this year. The Flyers get a top 4 d prospect with size who is NHL or near NHL ready ( would be by midseason at the lastest IMO) and a high 2nd in a dmen stacked draft. The Flyers would also save over 3 mil in cap space that can be spent on defense too.

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04-15-2012, 08:55 AM
  #14
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Free agency. Keep our filthy forward core. This league is becoming driven by teams that can roll four depth lines.

Kimmo
Coburn
Grossmann
Mez
+1 FA signing

That's a very nice, but not great top of the defense.

Gus/Bourdon/Manning/Vet D

On the backend.

Will be fine for bottom pairing.

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04-15-2012, 08:56 AM
  #15
ONTHEFLYGUY
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Too early to give up on jvr yet. While most of us assume pronged will never play again, we still don't know. Plus we will still have to deal with his salary either way

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04-15-2012, 09:06 AM
  #16
MountainHawk
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.000m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Hal Gill ($2.250m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.801m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,852,569; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,202,431

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04-15-2012, 09:07 AM
  #17
FlyersFan61290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I don't particularly like the idea of trading JVR but the Flyers have really put themselves in a bad cap situation for next year, even with Pronger on LTIR. That will give them 7 million to resign Voracek ( he will be getting at least 3), replace Pronger/Carle since Carle with be walking, and fill out the rest of the roster. As someone else mentioned, all of the dmen from the Phantoms are of the 6/7 variety. A. Top four of Kimmo, Mez, Coburn, and Grossman is good but you should also be worried about injuries.
Some of this dilemma can be alleviated by signing Justin Schultz but that is probably a long shot.

If JVR can be traded for multiple good assets like Richards and Carter were, it will be worth it. Something like to Carolina for Dumoulin (or McBain if you prefer) and a 2nd this year. The Flyers get a top 4 d prospect with size who is NHL or near NHL ready ( would be by midseason at the lastest IMO) and a high 2nd in a dmen stacked draft. The Flyers would also save over 3 mil in cap space that can be spent on defense too.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Matt Read ($0.900m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.500m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Pavel Kubina ($3.500m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($1.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,052,500; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $802,500

A healthy Kubina and MAB is not a bad 3rd pairing at all IMO. This is with no cap increase and a bonus cushion. Getting rid of Shelley and signing Sestito to a similar contract (~550,000) could save them about half a mil more if necessary for any reason. I signed Kubina to 3.5 as you can see cause I don't think he should be making more then Grossmann. Jake got a 1.25 mil pay increase, i doubt he gets more then that, MAB got an increase of 125k and Jagr was re-signed at the same price. I don't think these are unreasonable numbers

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04-15-2012, 09:28 AM
  #18
GKJ
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I don't see us turning over any more than one forward in the off-season. This excludes Jody Shelley.


Unless you're a bad team and undergoing a rebuilding phase, you don't usually follow up an off-season with so many changes with another one just the same.

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04-15-2012, 11:06 AM
  #19
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I'd like to keep mainly everyone of our forwards on this team. Including Jagr and JVR. (I have missed JVR)

What seems pointless to me is the fact that we have Shelley, Rinaldo, Sestito and Holmstrom. Holmstrom is the only one I like seeing out on the ice for more than 5 minutes a game. And I absolutely can't stand it when two of them are in the same game. There was even 1 game this year when Rinaldo, Shelley, AND Sestito were in the lineup against New Jersey. None of them fought and of all people Schenn was the one to fight and got beat pretty bad.

When Rinaldo steps onto the ice there is almost a guaranteed penalty to follow, regardless of whether or not he actually does something wrong. It's a shame really because the kid has tremendous speed and had some flashes of talent this season.

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04-15-2012, 11:09 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICAPNASTYI View Post
I'd like to keep mainly everyone of our forwards on this team. Including Jagr and JVR. (I have missed JVR)

What seems pointless to me is the fact that we have Shelley, Rinaldo, Sestito and Holmstrom. Holmstrom is the only one I like seeing out on the ice for more than 5 minutes a game. And I absolutely can't stand it when two of them are in the same game. There was even 1 game this year when Rinaldo, Shelley, AND Sestito were in the lineup against New Jersey. None of them fought and of all people Schenn was the one to fight and got beat pretty bad.

When Rinaldo steps onto the ice there is almost a guaranteed penalty to follow, regardless of whether or not he actually does something wrong. It's a shame really because the kid has tremendous speed and had some flashes of talent this season.
gotta agree here...

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04-15-2012, 12:24 PM
  #21
phlocky
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If you are really serious about trading players to improve the defense then you add Voracek, Simmonds, Read, Wellwood, Sestito & Rinaldo to that list. None of them are that important that we should turn down aquiring a Doughty or OEL just because the other team wants them & we don't want to lose them.

Honestly, a big part of our defensive woes is a lack of support by the forwards. Our dmen aren't that bad and we can address those issues without giving up anyone.

Also, we aren't in the cap hell as much as some seem to think. Initial estimates are that league wide teams have averaged about 4 mil of increased generated revenue this season over last and that is without the 6 mil in increased TV revenue every team recieved this year. That's a combined increase of 10 mil per team on average of which about 5 mil will go to the players in the way of a cap increase. I know that we need

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04-15-2012, 12:29 PM
  #22
hckyplayer8
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With the exception of Rinaldo/Shelley/Lilja, we should stand pat.

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04-15-2012, 12:30 PM
  #23
phlocky
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(Continuing here)

I know that we need a new CBA but unless the players union agrees to take a smaller percentage of the pie (& I doubt they will) the cap for next season should be over 70 mil.

I just am not going to panic over the defense yet. Homer will make the tweaks he feels we need and IF a player is dealt then i won't look back.

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04-15-2012, 12:44 PM
  #24
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Inno, maybe Im one of the few that see's that JVR might be traded this offseason. Homer may look at it like this. If we make a decent run with the offense we currently have, trading JVR for a defenseman (or even a top 5-10 pick+prospect) could benefit the team more. We had the 2nd best offense in the league when JVR played half the season and didnt look so good. After hearing Jagr talk, I am fairly confident he is coming back for one more season no matter what so the forwards we have now are. Giroux, Jagr, Hartnell, Briere, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, Read, Voracek, Talbot, Rinaldo Wellwood, Shelly (blah). Thats still a pretty strong forward deph....

Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
Simmonds-Schenn/Briere-Briere/Schenn
Read-Couturier-Voracek
Rinaldo-Talbot-Wellwood

I know some people here still think he is going to be a franchise forward, but I (obviously) dont, and think the need for a younger defender would be more beneficial. The 1st 10 picks this season has somewhere along the lines of 5 defenders who have franchise or even 1-2 defensive potential. Obviously it might not happen, but it worked last season with Couturier where some people here (who now love him) complained that trading Carter for draft picks (and a player) was stupid cause it wont help us now. Well Couturier is now a main player on the team. There are some defenders (like Ceci) who are NHL ready and can contribute next season if necessary.

We could also trade JVR for a defender around his age who has similar "potential" that JVR has but hasnt reached it or might not reach it like JVR. Timonen is getting older and is slowing down little by little. I think it would be important to find his replacement soon. Coburn and Grossmann will be on this team for the next few years (thankfully). Meszaros has really struggled this season so you have to be careful trusting that he will rebound next season.


And to the people saying there wont be a change, I cant remember the last time the Flyers didnt overhaul 2 or more players off of their current roster (or added players) Even the season where we went to the cup finals we had some changes that offseason. Snider doesnt allow failure and makes sure Homer makes changes to try and prevent that the next season.

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04-15-2012, 01:16 PM
  #25
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I would sooner move Schenn or Couturier than JvR.

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