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Converting Our forward Depth Into Dman

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Old
04-15-2012, 02:18 PM
  #26
sa cyred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I would sooner move Schenn or Couturier than JvR.
Wow. Ya. I wouldnt at all, but see thats the difference here. Some people still think JVR has franchise potential while some of us dont. I easily see Couturier and Schenn reaching their ceiling then JVR.

Also solid centers are harder to come by then wingers, especially centers that can play wing. Luckily there is no indication that Homer wants to move those two compared to JVR.

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04-15-2012, 02:31 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Wow. Ya. I wouldnt at all, but see thats the difference here. Some people still think JVR has franchise potential while some of us dont. I easily see Couturier and Schenn reaching their ceiling then JVR.

Also solid centers are harder to come by then wingers, especially centers that can play wing. Luckily there is no indication that Homer wants to move those two compared to JVR.
JvR's ceiling is essentially Hartnell's season this year for a decade. Impossible to replace.

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04-15-2012, 02:33 PM
  #28
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I go back and forth on JVR all the time. We see these flashes of JVR completely dominating a game or getting extremely hot for a week or so, but then there's also stretches were you don't even notice him on the ice.

The only way I trade JVR is for a stud young defenseman, and even then I have to think about it.

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Old
04-15-2012, 02:33 PM
  #29
Larry44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Wow. Ya. I wouldnt at all, but see thats the difference here. Some people still think JVR has franchise potential while some of us dont. I easily see Couturier and Schenn reaching their ceiling then JVR.

Also solid centers are harder to come by then wingers, especially centers that can play wing. Luckily there is no indication that Homer wants to move those two compared to JVR.
I don't think any of them will be moved. If anyone is moved to make room for re-signing Suter or Carle, it should be Meszaros. He's only got one year left, and with Grossman, Bourdon, Lilja for one more year, and possibly Kubina we don't really need his skillset as much.

JVR is still a potential star in the making. He blossomed in the playoffs last year, then spent this year with a series of fluky injuries. He still might help us this year, but I really doubt he'll end up getting dealt.

Meszaros and Bobrovsky could get you a decent young Dman from a team in desperate need of a 1/2 goalie and a vet Dman.

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04-15-2012, 02:35 PM
  #30
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Players like JVR take a long time to develop. If we are still seeing 10-20 goals from JvR in 2013-2014, then I'll worry, but I think he is fine right now.

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04-15-2012, 02:59 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
JvR's ceiling is essentially Hartnell's season this year for a decade. Impossible to replace.
Couturier has a 70-80 point ceiling with selke caliber defense. Schenn has a 40+ goal scorer ceiling, captain material, 80 point player. Plus both play center and can move to wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Players like JVR take a long time to develop. If we are still seeing 10-20 goals from JvR in 2013-2014, then I'll worry, but I think he is fine right now.
See the thing is though, defense IS a need. Once Timonen is done, we will really see the effects of not trading or getting a young defender when we needed it.

I remember last season people were trying to trade Timonen saying they were comfortable with Carle, Coburn and Meszaros in our top 4 and leading the team on defense... Yea. Thats not going to work now or in the future.

I just think we have a need on defense compared to more forwards.

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Old
04-15-2012, 03:00 PM
  #32
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I think Luke Schenn could end up in Philly by the beginning of next season. I'm not sure how ( I think it would have to be through a trade?) but Holmgren showed a lot of interest in him earlier this season and up until the Grossmann acquisition.

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04-15-2012, 07:18 PM
  #33
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Timo is getting older and slower. He's here next yr but after that he's probably retired, or resigned for like 2 mil a yr.

Jagr probably gone next yr. Beyond that I think Rinaldo and Sestito are somewhat expendable.

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04-15-2012, 07:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BeCar9 View Post
I think Luke Schenn could end up in Philly by the beginning of next season. I'm not sure how ( I think it would have to be through a trade?) but Holmgren showed a lot of interest in him earlier this season and up until the Grossmann acquisition.
There has been some talk in the Toronto press of a Schenn for JVR re visit this summer by Burke and Holmgren.

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Old
04-15-2012, 09:09 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Couturier has a 70-80 point ceiling with selke caliber defense. Schenn has a 40+ goal scorer ceiling, captain material, 80 point player. Plus both play center and can move to wing.



See the thing is though, defense IS a need. Once Timonen is done, we will really see the effects of not trading or getting a young defender when we needed it.

I remember last season people were trying to trade Timonen saying they were comfortable with Carle, Coburn and Meszaros in our top 4 and leading the team on defense... Yea. Thats not going to work now or in the future.

I just think we have a need on defense compared to more forwards.
I don't see the defensive need.

Let's look at the goals this series:

G1 PIT1-0: Terrific play by Crosby. He was covered, just made a great play.
G1 PIT2-0: 2 on 1. Defensemen pinched, no one covered. Guess we can call this bad defense, he probably should not have pinched
G1 PIT3-0: Coburn thought it was icing, and then there was a crazy bounce over Bryz.

G2 PIT1-0: Crosby burned Carle. Bad D
G2 PIT2-0: Kunitz left unchecked in front of net. Bad D.
G2 PIT3-1: Simmonds was lazy backchecking. Not on the D at all.
G2 PIT4-3: Crazy PPG goal from Malkin off the faceoff. I guess that's on the D.
G2 PIT5-4: Weak goal from Bryz. D was in decent position, forced a backhand.

G3 PIT1-0: Weak goal from Bryz.
G3 PIT2-3: Neal makes Carle/Lilja look dumb.
G3 PIT3-4: Neal PPG. Great pass from Malkin. Box was in pretty decent shape, not blaming this on D.
G3 PIT4-5: Weak goal from Bryz.


So that's 12 goals. 5 are clearly bad D. 2 were stars making star plays. 3 were terrible from Bryz, and 1 was the crazy bounce in game 1.

I think this is a decent effort against the leagues top offense, especially while attacking enough to score 20.

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Old
04-15-2012, 09:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
There has been some talk in the Toronto press of a Schenn for JVR re visit this summer by Burke and Holmgren.
Very unlikely now. We signed Grossman, who is better than Luke and cheaper too. We have a bigger, more reliable version of what we were looking for in Luke. I love Luke, but unless Burke is bringing a LOT more to the table, no JVR for you. The #5 pick and Luke for JVR? I'd think about that.

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Old
04-15-2012, 09:16 PM
  #37
Wayne Train
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Add Meszaros, lose Carle, and pick up a solid 4/5/6 Dman in FA, no need to go blowing up the offensive depth

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