The problem? A rebuild does not = sucking like a hoover and getting high picks until you win.
A rebuild does = sucking like a hoover, getting some good picks and filling the rest of the roster with quality vets that can be a big help.
The 2nd part might very well be our undoing. The management has to have the intestinal fortitude to make some moves to prevent this team from becoming a bunch of skilled losers, take a legit step next year to at least heavily compete for a playoff spot is very important.
People wonder why I rag so hard on Horcoff at the time, he's the poster boy for getting comfy in losing and by his treatment by the team teaching the young players all the wrong lessons.
I agree, the vets on our team were bad this year and we need better support from the guys who aren't the kids. And the management group has a lot to prove this off-season. But I don't think we are as far off as some people suggest.
Say we re-sign Smyth(or another checking LW) and give him the 3rd line minutes he needs to not burn out. Horcoff, same thing. The 3rd liners should not lead the forward group in ice-time. Hemsky needs to be much better next season. We saw glimpses at the end, so hopefully he's finally recovered. Gagner may not be the best 2nd C, but in terms of production he is serviceable.
Then the big issue, the D. Most would agree that Smid, Petry, Whitney and Schultz are all capable NHL d-men. Our issue was that we had four 7th dmen after that who played long stretches in the top 4 because of injuries. No question, we need 2 more NHL d-men to have a realistic shot at the playoffs. Injuries will hit and we need guys that can step into a top 4 role if needed. Hopefully, J Schultz will be a priority. He would fill a big hole on our PP. Allen would be another fantastic signing.
In goal, Harding seems like the best option. Rumours say he and N Schultz are friends. Then we try to move Khabby, and if we can't find a suitor then the Oilers start the season with 3 until Khabby earns either a trade or a demotion.
Hall - RNH - Eberle
Hemsky - Gagner - Yakupov
Smyth - Horcoff - Paajarvi
Eager - Belanger - Jones
Hodichuk(or another scrapper)
Smid - Petry
Allen - Whitney
Schultz - Schultz
Sutton
Dubnyk/Harding
Khabby
Of course, there are a bunch of other possibilities. But if Tambo can find a solid checking LW, 2 NHL D men, and perhaps upgrade Khabby, we could challenge for a playoff spot. Not easy, I know, but it isn't some Herculean task either. We had no problem signing 4 players last July 1st and that was before everyone saw Eberle's and RNH's play this season. Add in another 1st overall, and we should find ourselves more appealing to some of the players that want to win more than lay on a beach.
Perfect guy for that is Jarret Stoll. He won't resign in LA because of their centre depth, it would be great to have a PK, 2-way guy back on the team who can play as the 2C.
Perfect guy for that is Jarret Stoll. He won't resign in LA because of their centre depth, it would be great to have a PK, 2-way guy back on the team who can play as the 2C.
Weren't the vets the problem? And you are highly overrating Stoll's abilities, he's a 3rd C. An upgrade on Gagner would be nice for a playoff run, but it isn't vital to make the playoffs, imo.
Weren't the vets the problem? And you are highly overrating Stoll's abilities, he's a 3rd C. An upgrade on Gagner would be nice for a playoff run, but it isn't vital to make the playoffs, imo.
I can't see this team making the playoff with a top that's as soft as the one we have now. Who of Eberle, RNH, Hemsky and Gagner goes to make room for some grit?
Especially after watching this Pens/Flyers game today. We need a guy like Hartikainen to reach his ceiling. He would be very valuable in the playoffs.
Ditto Tyler Pitlick. If he can become a top 9 NHL forward with edge (capable of 15 goals and 30 points), he'll be invaluable.
If you watch the Flyers right now though, they have skill guys who are essentially not backing down. Briere, Giroux, Read, Voracek, Jagr, Couturier are not exactly scaring anyone, but add Schenn, Hartnell, Simmonds and Rinaldo and there's solid grit.
Another thing about Philly...maybe they have a no. 1 dman, but definately they have a full team of no.4s or better: Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Kubina, Grossman and Lilja are all extremely solid.
Exactly why I think the Oilers should aim to add two guys to the Petry, Smid, N. Schultz, Whitney mix and have Sutton and Potter as two guys moving in and out of the line-up.
I can't see this team making the playoff with a top that's as soft as the one we have now. Who of Eberle, RNH, Hemsky and Gagner goes to make room for some grit?
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that top 6 could get us into the playoffs. Each player is capable of 50p+.
And down the road if Gagner continues to stagnate he and Hemsky are the likely casualties to add size and grit.
On Hartikainen, I'd like to see him play half the season here and half in the A. He looked good at times down the stretch, but he certainly didn't blow the doors off in the A this season. I think he could use a bit more seasoning.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that top 6 could get us into the playoffs. Each player is capable of 50p+.
And down the road if Gagner continues to stagnate he and Hemsky are the likely casualties to add size and grit.
On Hartikainen, I'd like to see him play half the season here and half in the A. He looked good at times down the stretch, but he certainly didn't blow the doors off in the A this season. I think he could use a bit more seasoning.
My hope is too keep Gagner and Hemsky in until we can find suitable replacements. In a perfect world, these two play for another two more years and then a big 2c, Hart, Lander, Pitlick and Hamilton will step in providing grit and secondary scoring to go along with Hall, Yakupov, Eberle and RNH.
Big, but doesn't play big. If Paajarvi mans up and uses his size and skill it would really help the team going forward.
Agreed. I think it can be taught and when he fills out more and gets more comfortable in the NHL he'll use his size to his advantage. If not........might as well trade him for D
The playoffs are defined by players who have some grit in their game, which is one of the reasons the Canucks will be out by first round, you are not going to win that cup with soft finesse players like the Sedins, it was Kesler who really led that team to the playoffs, that being said, we should try and at least land a good puck mover defensemen and grap Dumba if we were to trade down in draft, Dumba has that tenacity that every team would need to take you far.
I agree, the vets on our team were bad this year and we need better support from the guys who aren't the kids. And the management group has a lot to prove this off-season. But I don't think we are as far off as some people suggest.
Say we re-sign Smyth(or another checking LW) and give him the 3rd line minutes he needs to not burn out. Horcoff, same thing. The 3rd liners should not lead the forward group in ice-time. Hemsky needs to be much better next season. We saw glimpses at the end, so hopefully he's finally recovered. Gagner may not be the best 2nd C, but in terms of production he is serviceable.
Then the big issue, the D. Most would agree that Smid, Petry, Whitney and Schultz are all capable NHL d-men. Our issue was that we had four 7th dmen after that who played long stretches in the top 4 because of injuries. No question, we need 2 more NHL d-men to have a realistic shot at the playoffs. Injuries will hit and we need guys that can step into a top 4 role if needed. Hopefully, J Schultz will be a priority. He would fill a big hole on our PP. Allen would be another fantastic signing.
In goal, Harding seems like the best option. Rumours say he and N Schultz are friends. Then we try to move Khabby, and if we can't find a suitor then the Oilers start the season with 3 until Khabby earns either a trade or a demotion.
Hall - RNH - Eberle
Hemsky - Gagner - Yakupov
Smyth - Horcoff - Paajarvi
Eager - Belanger - Jones
Hodichuk(or another scrapper)
Smid - Petry
Allen - Whitney
Schultz - Schultz
Sutton
Dubnyk/Harding
Khabby
Of course, there are a bunch of other possibilities. But if Tambo can find a solid checking LW, 2 NHL D men, and perhaps upgrade Khabby, we could challenge for a playoff spot. Not easy, I know, but it isn't some Herculean task either. We had no problem signing 4 players last July 1st and that was before everyone saw Eberle's and RNH's play this season. Add in another 1st overall, and we should find ourselves more appealing to some of the players that want to win more than lay on a beach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Unit
I'd rather let Smyth walk and give Hartikainen a shot on the depth chart next season.
what do you guys think of this:
eberle rnh yakupov
prv hall hemsky
eager horcoff hartikainen
smyth belanger jones
petrel
personally i think eager is better than smyth and jones, and is far more effective playing acouple more minutes and staying engaged in the game. feet, hands, and physicality are all upgrades to those two IMO. the only downside is his defensive coverage (which a problem for most of our wingers).
he would have the same amount of minutes as smyth and jones after they get some PK time.
that and if you dont believe in hall at center, but without making trades which may not be out there, i dont know how you get bigger. (you dont have to comment much on this, i know its not that popular).
eberle rnh yakupov
prv hall hemsky
eager horcoff hartikainen
smyth belanger jones
petrel
personally i think eager is better than smyth and jones, and is far more effective playing acouple more minutes and staying engaged in the game. feet, hands, and physicality are all upgrades to those two IMO. the only downside is his defensive coverage (which a problem for most of our wingers).
he would have the same amount of minutes as smyth and jones after they get some PK time.
that and if you dont believe in hall at center, but without making trades which may not be out there, i dont know how you get bigger. (you dont have to comment much on this, i know its not that popular).
I like this. People are getting too worked up over size. It isn't a big deal right now.
Our top six is too small, we can;t get out of our own zone.
It's not how large you are, it's how large you play. Gagner is too small, RNH is small. Eberle is too smart for this category. Hall and Yakupov don't play small at all.
It's not how large you are, it's how large you play. Gagner is too small, RNH is small. Eberle is too smart for this category. Hall and Yakupov don't play small at all.
Im still not against trading Yakupov. If there is a sweetheart deal sitting there you have to do it. The only thing is that you have to set a standard for what you think Yakupov is worth. And for me I'd set the trade bar that Yakupov is going to become Stamkos. That may be wishful thinking. I doubt he's that good. But if I was going to move him thats the standard I'd set. And a Stamkos value return would be my threshold before I traded Yakupov. If Somebody ponied up that value, in pieces that would be important to us going forward I'd seriously listen.
And a Stamkos value trade would be one hell of a trade.
I agree that the kid has that kind of trade value, which is exactly why we shouldnt trade him. Everybody says that a #1 dman is the be all end all, but lemme ask you guys this, how many 40 goal scorers were there this year? How many hit 50? Not many, and last year there was only one 50 goal scorer....i would say they are FAR more rare than a #1 dman...scoring has been down for several years in the NHL, the defense (league wide, i mean) isnt a problem.
Here's a good question for you guys, which would you rather have, Stamkos or Weber? Crosby or Doughty? Ovi or Pietro? Malkin or Suter? In other words, would you rather have an elite offensive player or defensive player? I would rather see us have 2 lines that would give the other teams fits so they cant just focus on 1 line and basically shut us down if that line isnt going that night. Our defense is decent right now (nothing special, but decent) and we have a bunch more coming up soon.
I agree that the kid has that kind of trade value, which is exactly why we shouldnt trade him. Everybody says that a #1 dman is the be all end all, but lemme ask you guys this, how many 40 goal scorers were there this year? How many hit 50? Not many, and last year there was only one 50 goal scorer....i would say they are FAR more rare than a #1 dman...scoring has been down for several years in the NHL, the defense (league wide, i mean) isnt a problem.
Here's a good question for you guys, which would you rather have, Stamkos or Weber? Crosby or Doughty? Ovi or Pietro? Malkin or Suter? In other words, would you rather have an elite offensive player or defensive player? I would rather see us have 2 lines that would give the other teams fits so they cant just focus on 1 line and basically shut us down if that line isnt going that night. Our defense is decent right now (nothing special, but decent) and we have a bunch more coming up soon.
On paper, the Oilers don't look too bad up front, but still need to switch some pieces for some more skilled, hard-nosed players. Top 3 lines are fairly balanced. Paajarvi-Nugent-Hopkins-Eberle (Nuge and Eberle are a dynamic duo and Paajarvi seems to be finding his game somewhat in OKC) Hall-Gagner-Yakupov (This line should be dynamic and interesting going forward) Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky (Reunited, this line can help shoulder some of the tough minutes) Eager-Lander-Hartikainen (Harti and Lander can be elevated to the third line when Smyth and Horcoff retire and the fourth line can get some more muscle on it.) Petrell
Renny or whoever the coach is can use players from the top three lines fairly interchangeably. I'd suggest that the defense is where you add more toughness, until Horcoff and Smyth retire.
