The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
They were charging $200 for a lower bowl seat, plus $25-40 in parking, plus $8 per beer?
Just sampling of 1 Canadian market but for the Columbus Blue Jackets (split squad), Nashville Predators and Caroilina Hurricanes Pre-season games a small Canadian market charged $161.25 for lower bowl tickets plus a $12.00 surcharge/ticketing fee for $173.25 and beer was $8.50.
Kudos to the Panthers for charging more for tickets, concessions, parking etc.... for playoffs. Now if they would match those prices for the regular season they would no longer be bleeding money and become a financially viable NHL franchise.
Lets Go Panthers!
A long playoff run will really help them out but regular season underpriced tickets in a gate driven league is not helping matters.
Could we see 3 or more relocations within the next 5 years the answer is yes coyotes & panthers for sure as for the devils & islanders they still have chance to survive because they are in more traditional hockey markets & have solid fan bases .
In my opinion this what is most likely to happen .
Coyotes - Quebec City
Panthers - Hamilton
Islanders - Brooklyn
OR
Coyotes - Hamilton
Panthers - Quebec City
Islanders - Seattle
Ethier way the landscape is going to look a lot different in the next 5 - 10 years .
I don't see Hamilton or Brooklyn getting teams. I think markets like Seattle, Houston, Portland, and Kansas City might make hard runs at available franchises.
Because they only maintain the lease so long as the Panthers are there. The filing company doesn't need to go out of business, but in order to keep the lease that makes them money, they NEED to keep this specific tenant. Their tenancy is what the entire basis of the lease is.
Its nothing to do with viability, they could be losing more money then any other NHL team for all we know (Including the Coyotes). They still can't go in to bankruptcy without the leaseholder losing ALL other income from the venue (And IIRC, some of the surrounding area as well)
OK, let me ask something, and I'm going to have to use some assumptions because I don't know the specific terms of the lease. I'm going to assume that, as in Tampa, the county owns the building and the hockey team is the main tenant, which gives the team's ownership leasehold rights to the building. The conversation so far makes it sound that way for the Panthers.
In a bankruptcy that involves reorganization, etc., do the creditors not have at least some percentage of the monies owed by the bankrupt company paid back to them? In this instance, would the county be considered a creditor since it holds that lease? And, if so, would the lease not have to be renegotiated or restructured to fit within whatever guidelines are set forth by the bankruptcy court? That could end the sweetheart deal and open a whole new can of worms if that's the case.
In a bankruptcy that involves reorganization, etc., do the creditors not have at least some percentage of the monies owed by the bankrupt company paid back to them? In this instance, would the county be considered a creditor since it holds that lease? And, if so, would the lease not have to be renegotiated or restructured to fit within whatever guidelines are set forth by the bankruptcy court? That could end the sweetheart deal and open a whole new can of worms if that's the case.
It would likely be like Phoenix. In a hypothetical bankruptcy SSE would have the choice to reject the Lease or not - ignoring the issues sidestepped by Judge Baum of when is a lease a lease and what statutory caps on damages exist. If they reject the Lease, they would be subject to damages - either actual or more likely liquidated damages specified in the Lease - and Broward County would be an unsecured creditor for those damages. SSE and it's AOC (Arena Operating Company) subsidiary would be out of the picture and the County would be free to negotiate a new operating agreement with another party.
If, on the other hand, the Panthers (as a separate legal entity) declared bankruptcy and were sold/moved, then SSE/AOC would be in breech of the terms of the Master Lease (which required the presence of the Panthers as a tenant) and Broward County could terminate the Lease - again SSE/AOC are cut out.
I don't see Hamilton or Brooklyn getting teams. I think markets like Seattle, Houston, Portland, and Kansas City might make hard runs at available franchises.
Brooklyn is likely going to be the future home of the Islanders it makes more sense then Nassau
OK, let me ask something, and I'm going to have to use some assumptions because I don't know the specific terms of the lease. I'm going to assume that, as in Tampa, the county owns the building and the hockey team is the main tenant, which gives the team's ownership leasehold rights to the building. The conversation so far makes it sound that way for the Panthers.
In a bankruptcy that involves reorganization, etc., do the creditors not have at least some percentage of the monies owed by the bankrupt company paid back to them? In this instance, would the county be considered a creditor since it holds that lease? And, if so, would the lease not have to be renegotiated or restructured to fit within whatever guidelines are set forth by the bankruptcy court? That could end the sweetheart deal and open a whole new can of worms if that's the case.
There is a priority order in bankruptcy.
1) The lawyers and consultants hired for reorganization - this is called Super Priority.
2) Debtor-in-possession lender. When a company files for reorganization they get a line of credit to pay their bills and keep operating while they try to get their house in order
3) Pre-petition (i.e. from before they filed) SECURED creditors. Usually there are bonds or bank debt that have liens on specific assets. Or there is someone that has a lien on all assets.
4) Unsecured creditors. This is employees that are owed salary, the vendors, suppliers, etc.
5) Equity Investors. They get the scraps of whatever is left.
Just sampling of 1 Canadian market but for the Columbus Blue Jackets (split squad), Nashville Predators and Caroilina Hurricanes Pre-season games a small Canadian market charged $161.25 for lower bowl tickets plus a $12.00 surcharge/ticketing fee for $173.25 and beer was $8.50.
Kudos to the Panthers for charging more for tickets, concessions, parking etc.... for playoffs. Now if they would match those prices for the regular season they would no longer be bleeding money and become a financially viable NHL franchise.
Lets Go Panthers!
A long playoff run will really help them out but regular season underpriced tickets in a gate driven league is not helping matters.
If it matters, for the planned Montreal - Carolina pre-season game to be held October 2nd 2012 in Quebec City, the prices are 31.25$ to 141.25$ CAD. Sampling another small canadian market.
Take note that two years ago, Habs player Islanders in Quebec City...but it was the Islanders AHL team since they were also playing the Devils in NJ on the same night. So basicly 100$+ tickets for not even a 100% insurance you will see two full nhl teams.
Last edited by powerstuck: 04-15-2012 at 08:53 PM.
Reason: added
Why some fans of teams who has been in trouble before are putting down the Panthers is absurd.
Maybe because it's hard to accept the current welfare rules in the NHL? It's more than a little galling for some of us to have to pay massive prices for tickets in Toronto, knowing full well that a fair chunk of change is immediately going to subsidize the likes of Florida with their "Four Tickets for $50!" dealios.
I'd like to see some fairness in the league again. You've got the NHL itself propping up Phoenix, and other welfare cases all over the south being kept alive solely by transfers from the likes of Toronto and Montreal. Sorry, I've nothing against fans of those teams. But if those teams can't pay the bills on their own, they should be shipped off to better markets where they can be self-sufficient. That, and/or teams should be contracted. Funny, that's what we were told here in Canada in the 90s. Now, though, it's a "fight to the death" struggle by Bettman and Daly to keep alive all of the US clubs hemorrhaging money.
Maybe because it's hard to accept the current welfare rules in the NHL? It's more than a little galling for some of us to have to pay massive prices for tickets in Toronto, knowing full well that a fair chunk of change is immediately going to subsidize the likes of Florida with their "Four Tickets for $50!" dealios.
I'd like to see some fairness in the league again. You've got the NHL itself propping up Phoenix, and other welfare cases all over the south being kept alive solely by transfers from the likes of Toronto and Montreal. Sorry, I've nothing against fans of those teams. But if those teams can't pay the bills on their own, they should be shipped off to better markets where they can be self-sufficient. That, and/or teams should be contracted.
The current system is a house of cards.
It's certainly not Floridas fault Toronto is taking outrageous prices for their tickets. Sounds like you should be upset with the ownership in Toronto for taking advantage of the millions of fans No but honestly Floridas issues has nothing to do with your fanship, atleast it shouldnt since you will pay just as much no matter where the other teams are located.
Maybe because it's hard to accept the current welfare rules in the NHL? It's more than a little galling for some of us to have to pay massive prices for tickets in Toronto, knowing full well that a fair chunk of change is immediately going to subsidize the likes of Florida with their "Four Tickets for $50!" dealios.
I'd like to see some fairness in the league again. You've got the NHL itself propping up Phoenix, and other welfare cases all over the south being kept alive solely by transfers from the likes of Toronto and Montreal. Sorry, I've nothing against fans of those teams. But if those teams can't pay the bills on their own, they should be shipped off to better markets where they can be self-sufficient. That, and/or teams should be contracted. Funny, that's what we were told here in Canada in the 90s. Now, though, it's a "fight to the death" struggle by Bettman and Daly to keep alive all of the US clubs hemorrhaging money.
You want to pay less for tickets in Toronto? Convince Torontonians to stop desiring Leafs tickets.
As it is all the current season tickets holders could cancel and they could find thousands of new ones instantly.
Maybe because it's hard to accept the current welfare rules in the NHL? It's more than a little galling for some of us to have to pay massive prices for tickets in Toronto, knowing full well that a fair chunk of change is immediately going to subsidize the likes of Florida with their "Four Tickets for $50!" dealios.
I'd like to see some fairness in the league again. You've got the NHL itself propping up Phoenix, and other welfare cases all over the south being kept alive solely by transfers from the likes of Toronto and Montreal. Sorry, I've nothing against fans of those teams. But if those teams can't pay the bills on their own, they should be shipped off to better markets where they can be self-sufficient. That, and/or teams should be contracted. Funny, that's what we were told here in Canada in the 90s. Now, though, it's a "fight to the death" struggle by Bettman and Daly to keep alive all of the US clubs hemorrhaging money.
Toronto would still have to pay high ticket prices regardless of whether revenue sharing exists or not. And would you really prefer your money going to Rogers and Bell instead of owners trying to grow the hockey in the sunbelt?
Maybe because it's hard to accept the current welfare rules in the NHL? It's more than a little galling for some of us to have to pay massive prices for tickets in Toronto, knowing full well that a fair chunk of change is immediately going to subsidize the likes of Florida with their "Four Tickets for $50!" dealios.
You really think MLSE will charge less for tickets if the Panthers cease to exist tomorrow? Come on...
Take note that two years ago, Habs player Islanders in Quebec City...but it was the Islanders AHL team since they were also playing the Devils in NJ on the same night. So basicly 100$+ tickets for not even a 100% insurance you will see two full nhl teams.
You're just being nice to that Isles team. That team would have lost against an ECHL team
Maybe because it's hard to accept the current welfare rules in the NHL? It's more than a little galling for some of us to have to pay massive prices for tickets in Toronto, knowing full well that a fair chunk of change is immediately going to subsidize the likes of Florida with their "Four Tickets for $50!" dealios.
I'd like to see some fairness in the league again. You've got the NHL itself propping up Phoenix, and other welfare cases all over the south being kept alive solely by transfers from the likes of Toronto and Montreal. Sorry, I've nothing against fans of those teams. But if those teams can't pay the bills on their own, they should be shipped off to better markets where they can be self-sufficient. That, and/or teams should be contracted. Funny, that's what we were told here in Canada in the 90s. Now, though, it's a "fight to the death" struggle by Bettman and Daly to keep alive all of the US clubs hemorrhaging money.
It is very sad that toronto, the worst franchise in sports, who hasn't won a cup since it was a six team league, is dumb enough to pay for failure.
Other original six teams like Chicago and Boston reacted to losing by simply not showing ..... driving their attendance dramatically down and forcing a change in the product....capitalism at its best.
If Toronto fans continue to support such a pathetic franchise, no one is responsible for helping them.
Until then, feel free to come down to Florida and enjoy playoffs and sunshine!
I would be curious to know the price of the tickets, though. Four tickets, two beers, one pizza and one massage for 45.95?
As someone who was in attendance at game 1 (empty seats? I saw maybe a dozen) my two tickets, parking, food, and booze cost me just under $300. And they were okay seats.
No but honestly Floridas issues has nothing to do with your fanship, atleast it shouldnt since you will pay just as much no matter where the other teams are located.
