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Game 3 Catharsis, Part 2 - Get it All Out, Bra

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Old
04-16-2012, 07:28 AM
  #76
mpp9
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Yeah, I really like this new version Sid. I'm not going to apologize for him doing what he feels is necessary to throw Philly off and get his team going to win a game. People need to grow up if you think he did anything to the contrary.

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Old
04-16-2012, 07:40 AM
  #77
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see you next year Gents, I'm going to be limiting myself to threads about next year from now on where it concerns the Pens.

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04-16-2012, 07:50 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by zorz View Post
I don't get why is Michalek criticized together with the rest of you defense. Did u guys notice he's the only one + player on your team with +3? I know that +- doesn't say much, but if the rest sucks in that + big TOI, it shows something.
I agree, I don't think Z has been the problem here. Martin is not a playoff performer, never has been, never will be. Orpik has definetly slowed but he is still physical presence on the blueline. I would entertain offers for him this summer. We will probably have to eat some of Martins salary to unload him.

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04-16-2012, 07:55 AM
  #79
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Does Martin have a no movement clause and if not, can this team realistically financialwise, bury him in WBS? I can't see him being traceable right now.

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04-16-2012, 08:00 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
Does Martin have a no movement clause and if not, can this team realistically financialwise, bury him in WBS? I can't see him being traceable right now.
That's funny in a way .

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04-16-2012, 08:19 AM
  #81
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Martin has a NMC so he can't be buried in the A. He also has a limited NTC, can't remember the details, but it may be similar to Orpik's deal where he can list 8 teams he will not go to.

Big D, the CBA won't allow the Pens to eat any of his salary in a trade, maybe with the new CBA this Fall.... Who knows?

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04-16-2012, 08:27 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Martin has a NMC so he can't be buried in the A. He also has a limited NTC, can't remember the details, but it may be similar to Orpik's deal where he can list 8 teams he will not go to.

Big D, the CBA won't allow the Pens to eat any of his salary in a trade, maybe with the new CBA this Fall.... Who knows?
I think he means we'll have to take some bad salary in return to trade him.

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04-16-2012, 08:27 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Martin has a NMC so he can't be buried in the A. He also has a limited NTC, can't remember the details, but it may be similar to Orpik's deal where he can list 8 teams he will not go to.

Big D, the CBA won't allow the Pens to eat any of his salary in a trade, maybe with the new CBA this Fall.... Who knows?
Shero NEEDS to find a way to get rid of him. Buy him out if that's the only way.

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04-16-2012, 08:33 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Clarence Beeks View Post
I agree with pretty much all of this. The only thing I want to add is that it frustrates me TO NO END that they are making a huge deal out of the Neal hit on Couturier when Schenn did THE EXACT SAME THING on the hit (I forget who it was on now) that Asham was responding to. Charging? Check. Left his feet? Check. Hit to the head? Check. Outrage from Emerick, Pierre, Milbury and Jones? Er... derp...
one guy had the puck and was in the play and the other didn't...big difference.

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04-16-2012, 08:40 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
I think he means we'll have to take some bad salary in return to trade him.
He said "eat some of Martin's salary", which they can't do.

They could take on a bad contract in a trade, if it can be buried in the A, but I seriously doubt Shero goes that route.

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Old
04-16-2012, 08:45 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
Shero NEEDS to find a way to get rid of him. Buy him out if that's the only way.
Then he has to justify that to his owners who will be spending dead money on Shero's mistake.

Only way I see that happening is if Parise or Suter get signed and he has found no buyers for Martin by the time he has to be cap compliant.

So basically in a fantasy world...

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Old
04-16-2012, 08:49 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
It is rare that you can get every negative analysis/word of caution you've made over three seasons confirmed in three games, but I find myself mentally checking all boxes here. There's nothing new in any of the things killing us, we're just seeing every weakness we have exploited simultaneously. A perfect storm.

We can ditch various players for good or bad reasons, and like everyone else I have some I'd rather see the back of. But it all starts with the coach, because there is simply no way our roster - focusing here on the D primarily - is this bad player by player. While clearly we have brought in players who were not ideal fits considering the qualities we were short on, the pairings we have usually been running have made it even worse. Further, there is no way our defenders individually should look like dilettantes, and whether we want to talk about 'system', neutral zone coverage, defending against the rush or making defensive adjustments to opponents absolutely shredding our weaknesses come play off time, this is certainly something falling under the purview of our most honorable DHCB.

We're getting destroyed in a series where we've had the lead in every game, in both the first ones even multi-goal leads, and where we've scored 4 goals per game. It is inconceivable - even if Saint Fleury has again been putting forth his most demoralisingly decrepit version of himself when the opposite was most needed (seriously, what could we have needed less at 1-0 up and on the PP in Philly than Fleury taking a soft wayward shot and literally throwing it into his own net... I twisted my ankle kicking the couch after that and just knew it would totally deflate the team. The rest of the period they had nothing... and we've seen this kind of horror goals too often).

Anyway, Dan Bylsma to me needs no more opportunities to prove that he is a playoff liability. He might be a great HR manager, putting in place structures people like to work in etc. But being a manager of people, I also know that there's a major difference between managing business as usual operations and motivating/coaching people to perform during crisis and peak pressure, not to mention making tough decisions when key staff **** up or underperform. Bylsma is still sort of green as an NHL coach; maybe he will add what he doesn't already have.... I just hope we aren't going to gamble on him growing up for us to make good on our talent.
Preach it brotha. There've been at least a few of us beating the drum on Bylsma since Montreal. It's not that it was a fair sample size but if you analyze closely this just isn't the way to go and it's been apparent in some ways since the drop of the puck in 09-10. People were swept up in his grinding mentality and his ability to keep afloat in the standings with guys hurt. That's great, and I'm not being sarcastic there, but we need to win in the postseason. I'm not saying Cups every year or anything ridiculous like that, but we have not been a relevant Cup contender since we actually won the thing. He's got a ton of empty spaces in his coaching tool box and if you can get past the one cool-sounding clip from 24/7 you'd have known this for a long time.

The defense lacks muscle and Martin is overrated. Another thing that's been recited ad nauseum, yet at least half 'Pens Nation' don't see it until it's right in front of their face.

I'll add a new one. To all the people that were short-sighted after game 1 saying things like "Oh great the sky is falling" or "Calm down you guys, it's one game": This, this situation we're in right now, is why many of us were deeply concerned after that game. Want to know something crazy, something utterly insane? If the Penguins would've just played a little defense in the third period of game 1, as horrible as they have been almost this entire series, this series would only be 2-1 Flyers. I'll go out on a limb and say we can all agree that would be an enormous difference. Sure, we don't have it this year anyways, but being down 2-1 at least gives you a fighting chance and buys time for you to try and improve a thing or two. The way this went down is just a joke, but I'm glad many of you kept your cool after that first game.

As far as players, I have no problem revamping to some extent. I just think it's impossible to predict what's going to be out there. Obviously shedding Martin should be priority #1, but as stated by others above it will be no small task. I have no problem making a run at Shea Weber and adding another big salary. We'll have young guys on ELCs and a player like that would be exactly what we need.

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04-16-2012, 08:49 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
I agree, I don't think Z has been the problem here. Martin is not a playoff performer, never has been, never will be. Orpik has definetly slowed but he is still physical presence on the blueline. I would entertain offers for him this summer. We will probably have to eat some of Martins salary to unload him.
As much heat as Martin took in Game 1, Z turning the puck over in that game led to 2 or 3 goals I think. He won't take a hit to make a player either.

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04-16-2012, 08:50 AM
  #89
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I much rather to have Suter than Parise. Defense is in serious need of change. We really don't need Parise since we didn't have trouble to score.

I know it's a long shot to sign Suter but you never know.

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04-16-2012, 09:33 AM
  #90
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I shaved what I had of a playoff beard this morning. Sunday's game was so disheartening, and for more reasons than just seeing my team get annihiliated by their arch-rivals.

The blatant disrespect for player safety by Neal and Asham is pretty upsetting. I wouldn't have minded Asham's crosscheck so much if he didn't finish it with a cheapshot to the back of the head. I probably could have convinced myself that Neal maybe didn't see Cotourier and couldn't move out of his path or something... until he hit Giroux in the back of the head at decent speed, making Giroux fall to the ice and see stars (if you think that was just "acting", you are amazingly ignorant).

It's complete ******** and utterly disgusting. This isn't a team that deserves to win the cup at all.

All that aside, Philly has simply outplayed Pittsburgh to every degree so far in this series. The Flyers have shown that they can play a disciplined game of hockey to come back from a 3 goal defecit, the Penguins have shown that they are everything but disciplined.

So, that's me getting it all out, bra. I expect Asham to see a 1 game suspension, Neal should get 2-3, but then again it's Shanahan, so they'll probably both get fines and call it a day.

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04-16-2012, 09:44 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jacques G View Post
I shaved what I had of a playoff beard this morning. Sunday's game was so disheartening, and for more reasons than just seeing my team get annihiliated by their arch-rivals.

The blatant disrespect for player safety by Neal and Asham is pretty upsetting. I wouldn't have minded Asham's crosscheck so much if he didn't finish it with a cheapshot to the back of the head. I probably could have convinced myself that Neal maybe didn't see Cotourier and couldn't move out of his path or something... until he hit Giroux in the back of the head at decent speed, making Giroux fall to the ice and see stars (if you think that was just "acting", you are amazingly ignorant).

It's complete ******** and utterly disgusting. This isn't a team that deserves to win the cup at all.

All that aside, Philly has simply outplayed Pittsburgh to every degree so far in this series. The Flyers have shown that they can play a disciplined game of hockey to come back from a 3 goal defecit, the Penguins have shown that they are everything but disciplined.

So, that's me getting it all out, bra. I expect Asham to see a 1 game suspension, Neal should get 2-3, but then again it's Shanahan, so they'll probably both get fines and call it a day.
Encapsulates everything pretty well for me. I'd also throw in the fact that Crosby and Letang simply acted like morons (Crosby for the whole game), but that seems to be a sore spot with most. It's pretty clear that's the case, but I'm guessing it hurts too much to say anything but that they were trying to fire the team up. Whatever.

As far as suspensions, Asham will certainly get a game. He'll probably get two to make it look better since they know the Penguins are dead in the water anyways. I don't think Neal will get anything frankly and I'd put a few bucks on it.

Of course after Carkner doing what he did the other day and only getting 1 game, by the NHL's logic these players are clean as a whistle.

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04-16-2012, 10:25 AM
  #92
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Yeah, I really like this new version Sid. I'm not going to apologize for him doing what he feels is necessary to throw Philly off and get his team going to win a game. People need to grow up if you think he did anything to the contrary.
People are honestly making a much bigger deal out of it than they should be. Sid's playing with fire in his eyes and when your team is getting manhandled in a series, you're going to do ANYTHING and everything in order to light a fire under their *****. We're in full-fledged desperation mode right now...

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04-16-2012, 10:26 AM
  #93
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I much rather to have Suter than Parise. Defense is in serious need of change. We really don't need Parise since we didn't have trouble to score.

I know it's a long shot to sign Suter but you never know.
I'd be worried about how it would eventually affect our ability to re-sign Letang long term once his current deal expires.

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04-16-2012, 10:28 AM
  #94
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I agree, I don't think Z has been the problem here. Martin is not a playoff performer, never has been, never will be. Orpik has definetly slowed but he is still physical presence on the blueline. I would entertain offers for him this summer. We will probably have to eat some of Martins salary to unload him.
Z has a lot of upside to his game, and I think we can still get a lot out of him. Martin on the other hand hasn't looked like a quality d-man since the first half of last season. Not only is he incredibly soft, but he seems to have lost all confidence in his game this season. Ship both him and Orpik off this Summer and start focusing on our young guys in the system.

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04-16-2012, 10:29 AM
  #95
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To call him out for not fighting when he recently came back from a head injury that at times seemed career threatening is hilarious. One of, if not, the best player in the league now is not going to risk his career for some dirtbag from the Flyers.

It just shows what low lifes those fans are.

I'm pretty sure that the entire world (not just Flyers fans) is calling him out for chirping and cheapshotting and THEN not fighting. (Still can't believe he didn't get an instigator penalty for the brawl in the first.) This is hockey. Man up.

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04-16-2012, 10:34 AM
  #96
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I'm pretty sure Crosby did ask Schenn and Schenn declined.

As for the scrum at the end, I still don't understand why Crosby, who is preventing Hartnell from going after Neal, is expected to fight Hartnell? If Crosby is supposed to fight in that position, why aren't there hundreds of more fights because teammates stepping in to protect other teammates happens all the time in games during scrums?

Disappointing that the Pens aren't more aggressive on the Flyers D.

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04-16-2012, 10:36 AM
  #97
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I'm pretty sure that the entire world (not just Flyers fans) is calling him out for chirping and cheapshotting and THEN not fighting. (Still can't believe he didn't get an instigator penalty for the brawl in the first.) This is hockey. Man up.
I suggest you go back to your own boards buddy. No one here cares about what your complaining about Sid. As if the loss wasnt enough

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04-16-2012, 10:45 AM
  #98
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I suggest you go back to your own boards buddy. No one here cares about what your complaining about Sid. As if the loss wasnt enough
Yeah, the parenthetical was totally unnecessary, and after posting I almost edited it out. I was trying to explain to the gentleman further up that the anti-Crosby commentary (which has for years been out of some combination of jealousy and stupidity) is pretty legitimate this time.

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04-16-2012, 10:47 AM
  #99
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I'm pretty sure that the entire world (not just Flyers fans) is calling him out for chirping and cheapshotting and THEN not fighting. (Still can't believe he didn't get an instigator penalty for the brawl in the first.) This is hockey. Man up.
What the ****? You can clearly see Crosby ask Schenn if he wants to go and Schenn declines. I mean we're not talking about some debatable thing here. You can watch it happen clearly in the footage of the scrum. Seriously, it's almost unbelievable how some of you will just flat out deny that something happened right before your eyes just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

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04-16-2012, 10:53 AM
  #100
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What the ****? You can clearly see Crosby ask Schenn if he wants to go and Schenn declines. I mean we're not talking about some debatable thing here. You can watch it happen clearly in the footage of the scrum. Seriously, it's almost unbelievable how some of you will just flat out deny that something happened right before your eyes just because it doesn't fit your narrative.
One moment does not a narrative make. Do you really want me to post a blow-by-blow of the entire game? Or I could post some links to Philadelphia media accounts? Or PITTSBURGH media accounts?

My point is that something really was different this game. That's all. This is not just the normal media pile-on on Crosby. Asking Schenn to go doesn't change that, which is why I didn't bother to include a footnote acknowledging it.

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