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Edmonton's Core vs Colorado's Core

View Poll Results: Better Core
Edmonton 70 40.46%
Colorado 103 59.54%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-15-2012, 09:13 PM
  #326
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
ughh well its just my opinion but gagner is not better than duchene, mps is not better than landeskog (thats pretty laughable btw) and i would take EJ over Petry so....
... so there's hockey outside of Denver son. Try watching it sometime.

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04-15-2012, 09:18 PM
  #327
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... so there's hockey outside of Denver son. Try watching it sometime.
LOL wtf im from edmonton haha

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04-15-2012, 09:21 PM
  #328
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LOL wtf im from edmonton haha

I watch a ton of hockey. And right now its not hard to take Duchene over Gagner, EJ over Petry (its close though). But seriously man no GM would take Paajarvi over Landeskog
I think he was being sarcastic.

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04-15-2012, 09:24 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
I think he was being sarcastic.
Nah, he's always serious, all the time.

Why would you even think he's being sarcastic?

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04-15-2012, 09:25 PM
  #330
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I think he was being sarcastic.
ya i figured that out after i posted haha

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Old
04-16-2012, 07:35 AM
  #331
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If our players were as good as we made them out to be in this thread, we wouldn't be picking Nail. I'll take our offense, or our core. I'd rather Colorado's team.

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04-16-2012, 08:15 AM
  #332
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If we're just comparing all players 25 and younger . . .

Edmonton has a great "big 4" in Hall/RNH/Eberle/MPS, but I think Colorado's is even a touch better with Duchene/Stastny/Landeskog/EJ. But after those competing "big 4s" Colorado's core blows Edmonton's out of the water, by far:
- Hishon
- Varlamov
- Siemens
- Elliott
- Barrie
- Mueller
- ROR
- Pickard
- Galiardi
- Quincey
etc.

This list just demolishes what Edmonton has to offer in terms of a young core. Honestly you can make an argument for someone like Hishon over guys like Eberle and MPS long-term, nevermind the fact that he should be compared to Edmonton's "best of the rest" in terms of forwards (Omark?), while Siemens/Elliott/Barrie is infinitely better than Edmonton's d prospects, Varlamov/Pickard is WAY better than Dubnyk/nobody, etc.

Overall, not close, Colorado have a way better young core. However, Coloardo don't have a 1st or 2nd next year after that Varlamov trade, and you have to question how good they'll ever be if their internal budget stays so massively stingy, while Edmonton look to be headed for another top 5 pick, and they have great long-term finances/fan support, so I do think you could argue that Edmonton could has the brighter future (again, mostly because of finances, i.e. ability to keep the core together, and add to it). But in terms of current core (ignoring team finances, future picks, etc.), I take Colorado's core 10 times out of 10.
QFT my thoughts exactly

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04-16-2012, 09:50 AM
  #333
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Did Ponder say you could make an arguement for Hishon long term over Eberle? I will kill a crow from my backyard and eat it live on the net for all to see if that happens.

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04-16-2012, 10:15 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
Did Ponder say you could make an arguement for Hishon long term over Eberle? I will kill a crow from my backyard and eat it live on the net for all to see if that happens.
Yeah, he also called Siemens/Elliot/Barrie infinitely better than Klefbom/Marincin/Gernat and called Varlamov/Pickard WAY better than Dubnyk/Bunz (who apparently is a nobody). It's pretty clear that he doesn't know much about Edmonton's prospect pool but in fairness, not many posters do.

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04-16-2012, 10:32 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
Did Ponder say you could make an arguement for Hishon long term over Eberle? I will kill a crow from my backyard and eat it live on the net for all to see if that happens.
We will never know how good would he be this season since McNabb decided to go headhunting at the last Memorial Cup. And saying he could be better in the long run wasn't exactly a stretch considering how good he was last year in the OHL having highest PPG average in the entire CHL of all forwards and leading the OHL playoffs in scoring. Hopefully he'll bounce back next season and start his pro career in Cleveland.

And we have another gem in the OHL in Sgarbossa who looks really good for Sudbury Wolves.

I also wouldn't question Ponder's hockey knowledge, he's one of the most level headed and inteligent posters on this boards. Everyone can be wrong sometimes, it comes with the teritory regarding matters like projecting career paths of NHL prospects.

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04-16-2012, 10:49 AM
  #336
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not really fair anymore with edmonton adding Yakupov to there core

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04-16-2012, 10:50 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
We will never know how good would he be this season since McNabb decided to go headhunting at the last Memorial Cup. And saying he could be better in the long run wasn't exactly a stretch considering how good he was last year in the OHL having highest PPG average in the entire CHL of all forwards and leading the OHL playoffs in scoring. Hopefully he'll bounce back next season and start his pro career in Cleveland.

And we have another gem in the OHL in Sgarbossa who looks really good for Sudbury Wolves.

I also wouldn't question Ponder's hockey knowledge, he's one of the most level headed and inteligent posters on this boards. Everyone can be wrong sometimes, it comes with the teritory regarding matters like projecting career paths of NHL prospects.
Ok, if i said that Klefbom could be better than EJ long term, how would that sit with Avs fans? Klefbom at 18 was a WJC All Star and is playing big minutes (more than Brodin later in the season) in the regular season and playoffs for one of the better teams in a men's league so based on that, Klefbom could be better than EJ long term. I don't really believe that, i was just using an analogy to illustrate how far fetched it is to think that Hishon could be better than Eberle.

Hishon is an excellent prospect but it's a huge stretch to think that he'll ever be as good as Eberle.

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04-16-2012, 10:54 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Ok, if i said that Klefbom could be better than EJ long term, how would that sit with Avs fans? Klefbom at 18 was a WJC All Star and is playing big minutes (more than Brodin later in the season) in the regular season and playoffs for one of the better teams in a men's league so based on that, Klefbom could be better than EJ long term. I don't really believe that, i was just using an analogy to illustrate how far fetched it is to think that Hishon could be better than Eberle.

Hishon is an excellent prospect but it's a huge stretch to think that he'll ever be as good as Eberle.
Pretty sure he said that before Eberle bursted on the scene... I think Hishon will be good, but his best year will likely be worse then Eberle's was this year

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04-16-2012, 11:00 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Ok, if i said that Klefbom could be better than EJ long term, how would that sit with Avs fans? Klefbom at 18 was a WJC All Star and is playing big minutes (more than Brodin later in the season) in the regular season and playoffs for one of the better teams in a men's league so based on that, Klefbom could be better than EJ long term. I don't really believe that, i was just using an analogy to illustrate how far fetched it is to think that Hishon could be better than Eberle.

Hishon is an excellent prospect but it's a huge stretch to think that he'll ever be as good as Eberle.
Eberle was far from being a player that he is today when Ponder posted that and I doubt even his biggest fans expected that kind of an explosion from him this season, so your analogy isn't perfect.

During my time as an NHL fan I've seen a lot of kids coming from nowhere and becoming one of the biggest stars and I've seen a lot of them fall of the map even tough they looked like the real deal in their 1st years in the NHL. We just need to wait and see what happens with our kids 5 or 6 years down the road, we will all be smarter then.

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04-16-2012, 11:02 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Eberle was far from being a player that he is today when Ponder posted that and I doubt even his biggest fans expected that kind of an explosion from him this season, so your analogy isn't perfect.

During my time as an NHL fan I've seen a lot of kids coming from nowhere and becoming one of the biggest stars and I've seen a lot of them fall of the map even tough they looked like the real deal in their 1st years in the NHL. We just need to wait and see what happens with our kids 5 or 6 years down the road, we will all be smarter then.
Fair enough, i didn't see the date of Ponder's post.

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04-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Yeah, he also called Siemens/Elliot/Barrie infinitely better than Klefbom/Marincin/Gernat and called Varlamov/Pickard WAY better than Dubnyk/Bunz (who apparently is a nobody). It's pretty clear that he doesn't know much about Edmonton's prospect pool but in fairness, not many posters do.
As big of a supporter of Klefbom and Marincin I am (I was tooting Marincin's horn back when this debate began on other forums between Avs/Oiler's defensive prospects), at this point saying Siemens + Elliott + Barrie > Klefbom + Marincin + Gernat is pretty dang true... let alone factoring in Gaunce.

And Varlamov + Pickard may not be way better in your eyes, but Varlamov + Pickard + Aittokallio + Patterson is definitely better than what Edmonton has to offer. That's ignoring the possibility of Desjardins re-signing and Millan being signed.

I feel like this core debate would be a lot simpler if we defined what we were trying to argue.

Do we compare players under a certain age? Do we compare absolute talent or potential? Do we compare a certain sample size of players? Etc.

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04-16-2012, 11:31 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
As big of a supporter of Klefbom and Marincin I am (I was tooting Marincin's horn back when this debate began on other forums between Avs/Oiler's defensive prospects), at this point saying Siemens + Elliott + Barrie > Klefbom + Marincin + Gernat is pretty dang true... let alone factoring in Gaunce.

And Varlamov + Pickard may not be way better in your eyes, but Varlamov + Pickard + Aittokallio + Patterson is definitely better than what Edmonton has to offer. That's ignoring the possibility of Desjardins re-signing and Millan being signed.

I feel like this core debate would be a lot simpler if we defined what we were trying to argue.

Do we compare players under a certain age? Do we compare absolute talent or potential? Do we compare a certain sample size of players? Etc.
well Pickard isnt a better goalie than Bunz, Bunz has been a lot better during his junior career. Varlamov's stats are very comparable to Dubnyk's so I dont see how anyone can say Varlamov is clearly better. Aittokalio is an ok prospect but I dont see how hes any farther ahead than Roy is at this point.

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04-16-2012, 11:48 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
well Pickard isnt a better goalie than Bunz, Bunz has been a lot better during his junior career. Varlamov's stats are very comparable to Dubnyk's so I dont see how anyone can say Varlamov is clearly better. Aittokalio is an ok prospect but I dont see how hes any farther ahead than Roy is at this point.
Based on? I hope you aren't looking at Pickard's stats to find out how good he really is.

And Aitto is probably our best goaltending prospect.

You can read about our goalie prospects (including Aitto) in these great articles by Justin from The Goalie Guild:

http://thegoalieguild.com/2012/01/th...-goalie-coach/

http://thegoalieguild.com/2011/09/sa...ish-influence/

http://thegoalieguild.com/2011/09/av...myon-varlamov/

http://thegoalieguild.com/2011/09/sami_aittokallio/

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04-16-2012, 11:48 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
well Pickard isnt a better goalie than Bunz, Bunz has been a lot better during his junior career. Varlamov's stats are very comparable to Dubnyk's so I dont see how anyone can say Varlamov is clearly better. Aittokalio is an ok prospect but I dont see how hes any farther ahead than Roy is at this point.
Bunz and Pickard are definitely 1/2 right now in their junior leagues (or were), but to make the distinction that Bunz is better than Pickard is speculation. Pickard has been stuck behind a terrible team his entire junior career and inspite of that has set league records.

Aittokallio though, there is no question at all. He is miles better than Roy at this juncture and actually has the potential to be the best goalie of the group. Just like I honestly like Perhonen more than Bunz in the future.

Add in Patterson, who has been one of the best collegiate goalies of late... well let's just say it isn't much of a contest which team has the more promising goalie depth.

As we all know goalies aren't exactly a science though, so anything could happen.

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04-16-2012, 12:00 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
As big of a supporter of Klefbom and Marincin I am (I was tooting Marincin's horn back when this debate began on other forums between Avs/Oiler's defensive prospects), at this point saying Siemens + Elliott + Barrie > Klefbom + Marincin + Gernat is pretty dang true... let alone factoring in Gaunce.

And Varlamov + Pickard may not be way better in your eyes, but Varlamov + Pickard + Aittokallio + Patterson is definitely better than what Edmonton has to offer. That's ignoring the possibility of Desjardins re-signing and Millan being signed.

I feel like this core debate would be a lot simpler if we defined what we were trying to argue.

Do we compare players under a certain age? Do we compare absolute talent or potential? Do we compare a certain sample size of players? Etc.
I would say that we're defining potential so it's subjective but obviously, pedigree and proven play is a part of it too.

I took issue with him saying that the Avs Dmen prospects are infinitely better, i'd say that it's close either way but since the Avs guys are a little further along in their development Elliott in particular, they get the edge.

I also took issue with him saying that Varlamov/Pickard is WAY better than Dubnyk/Bunz. Yes, Aittokallio and Patterson can be added but so can Roy and Perhonen. I would give the edge to the Avs but it's close.

I would say where the Avs have the distinct advantage is in 2 way forwards. The Oilers don't have anybody like Landeskog or O'Reilly in the system and not even close IMO so the clear edge goes to the Avs there while the Oilers have the edge in elite skilled talent although Duchene and Stastny are obviously no slouches.

Anyway, it was all a misunderstanding on my part because Ponder's post was from a long time ago and a lot has changed since then so take my citicisms of his post with a grain of salt.

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