HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Leagues > The KHL
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

KHL Expansion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-16-2012, 11:57 AM
  #51
J17 Vs Proclamation
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Reading.
Country: South Korea
Posts: 7,862
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to J17 Vs Proclamation
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
J17 Vs Proclamation
It is difficult to discuss with you because you dont have basic knowledge of KHL and MHL plans. You dont know how KHL, MHL see european hockey development and future.
You must be some sort of KHL paid propaganda artist, because all you reply with is the same rhetoric. You never add anything else to the debate, but the same idea, an idea which isn't even the topic of conversation.

I am not discussing whether expanding into European markets helps Russian development, nor am i discussing the health of the Russian development system. I am discussing the potential impact of such an expansion on domestic leagues accross the Europe that isn't the KHL. Please understand this, because it is fustrating that cannot seem to graps this.




Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
nothing. Club not involved in KHL would play domestic league as before. Look at Slovan case. Club will join KHL and rest teams of slovak league will play extraliga like they do know. Maybe one newcomer. Level of play will be the same. Slovan will not change its developming system - kids, youth, juniors will play slovak leagues of appropriate age category. Best juniors can make Slovan´s roster to play better league. Is it bad? If Slovan creates MHL team in future, it will be good for developing. MHL is better than slovak U20 league. Bad for you?
Yes, the first part is obvious. It is bad, because your creating one super power club in a nation and the rest is left to continue onwards, with worse situations. You think people will care as much if 3/4 big clubs leave and join the KHL? You think there will be as much money or incentive domestically? (I am not specifically talking about Slovakia here, rather broadly) I do not think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I can imagine the same scenario in Czech rep, Sweden, Finland. I dont believe it happens in north europe but I dont see negatives. Developing system will be the same, only one or more senior clubs will play KHL. These clubs can play Elitserien as well. Non-russian KHL club does not have to build MHL team if you dont know.
Thankfully, i don't see Finland or Sweden participating in such an concept, at least for now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
your theory. I can give you real proof. HC LEV played this season in Slovakia. Your scenario did not happen. HC LEV will play next season in Prague. What happens? CKD as onwer HC LEV gave money to czech federation. You complain about decreaing money for domestic league, I give say you are wrong.
One season in, one team. To understand and analyse these things, we will need years. You don't measure a concept/project on one year, especially when the upsides/downsides of such a plan will manifest themselves over many many years. So you haven't given my any proof.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
you should read or dicsuss with people working for MHL. They want to cooperate with europe nations to make domestic junior leagues better, to stop luring kids to CHL. MHL does not want to lure czech, finn, swede, slovak or so clubs. They only want to play international games like World Cup, to share knowledge.
Yet the KHL wishes to lure teams from all over Europe. It wants to turn itself into a rival to the NHL, by expanding into Europe. The KHL doesn't care about Swedish, Finnish etc Junior hockey development.

You'd have to be insane to believe they do (Nor in reality should they to be honest).

J17 Vs Proclamation is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 12:17 PM
  #52
malkinfan
Registered User
 
malkinfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 3,178
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to malkinfan
I don't understand why people get so defensive about the domestic leagues? I don't see a problem lets say if 1 or 2 Swedish teams go to the KHL. It's not like the KHL stole those teams. It is likely that those 2 teams will now bring greater exposure to their clubs, better TV contracts, better players, more fans etc..
Fans say they will not support, but then when they see a team made up of all stars of from the domestic league, who they previously cheered on they jump ship.
It will allow the domestic league to be a proving ground for players who want to be signed by KHL teams, in essence like the VHL. Those teams will still have fans, maybe their budgets will have to decrease, so it will give opportunity for younger, less expensive players. Also, with the top powerhouse teams out of the domestic league, it would give opportunity to the lesser teams to fight for the crown.

Is that really that delusional?

malkinfan is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 12:40 PM
  #53
zorz
Registered User
 
zorz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
I don't understand why people get so defensive about the domestic leagues? I don't see a problem lets say if 1 or 2 Swedish teams go to the KHL. It's not like the KHL stole those teams. It is likely that those 2 teams will now bring greater exposure to their clubs, better TV contracts, better players, more fans etc..
Fans say they will not support, but then when they see a team made up of all stars of from the domestic league, who they previously cheered on they jump ship.
It will allow the domestic league to be a proving ground for players who want to be signed by KHL teams, in essence like the VHL. Those teams will still have fans, maybe their budgets will have to decrease, so it will give opportunity for younger, less expensive players. Also, with the top powerhouse teams out of the domestic league, it would give opportunity to the lesser teams to fight for the crown.

Is that really that delusional?
Because project like KHL wasn't in Europe before and it's unexplored what could happen. Prognosis are one thing and reality could be completely different. If it doesn't work out well, we can't go back in time and change it in this case. That's doesn't mean their plan is bad, but wariness is a good thing here. There is a proverb in Czech which applies well to this: "Measure twice, cut once."

zorz is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 12:44 PM
  #54
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
You must be some sort of KHL paid propaganda artist
Quote:
You'd have to be insane to believe they do
would be great if you show respect to me and other posters. Thanks

Quote:
I am not discussing whether expanding into European markets helps Russian development, nor am i discussing the health of the Russian development system. I am discussing the potential impact of such an expansion on domestic leagues accross the Europe that isn't the KHL.

I am as well. Please read my previous posts.

vorky is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 01:52 PM
  #55
Mihali4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 30
vCash: 500
All this depends on how much pie of the cash cake can eat one club? Other clubs in domestic league can decrease but how much 5% or 25%? Only time will show.

Mihali4 is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 02:09 PM
  #56
Sokil
Ukraine Specialitsky
 
Sokil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 6,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorz View Post
There is a proverb in Czech which applies well to this: "Measure twice, cut once."
that isn't a Czech proverb, just a rule of thumb in carpentry

Sokil is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 02:59 PM
  #57
AE
Registered User
 
AE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Sweden
Posts: 346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
I don't understand why people get so defensive about the domestic leagues? I don't see a problem lets say if 1 or 2 Swedish teams go to the KHL. It's not like the KHL stole those teams. It is likely that those 2 teams will now bring greater exposure to their clubs, better TV contracts, better players, more fans etc..
Fans say they will not support, but then when they see a team made up of all stars of from the domestic league, who they previously cheered on they jump ship.
It will allow the domestic league to be a proving ground for players who want to be signed by KHL teams, in essence like the VHL. Those teams will still have fans, maybe their budgets will have to decrease, so it will give opportunity for younger, less expensive players. Also, with the top powerhouse teams out of the domestic league, it would give opportunity to the lesser teams to fight for the crown.

Is that really that delusional?
Yes, at least from a Swedish standpoint. (This applies to most of Western Europe too)
The difference between Canada and the US (as in case of the NHL) is non existent in comparison between Sweden and Russia. In how the system works now (leagues etc.), language, rules and regulations (laws) and other cultural aspects.

These differences are too big and will by default rule out Swedish teams in the KHL. (and please don't bring AIK as an example because that was never an option, they used it as a bargaining tool against the Swedish league)

AE is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 04:28 PM
  #58
Mirinho
Registered User
 
Mirinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 1,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
I dunno you're there and I'm not.
Why did Oriil Znomjmo join EBEL and why are SHK 37 planning to? EBEL may have plans and ambitions but it's not a Premier Leagus yet.
They didn't have enough money to get back to czech extraliga and they didn't want to play lower league ... that's all

with the team they had this season in EBEL they would badly suck in czech extraliga and even in lower league they wouldn't be better than Chomutov or Ústí nad Labem


Last edited by Mirinho: 04-17-2012 at 05:37 AM.
Mirinho is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 04:30 PM
  #59
Mirinho
Registered User
 
Mirinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 1,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
that isn't a Czech proverb, just a rule of thumb in carpentry
yes it is .. we use it not only in carpentry everytime you need to think first before action

Mirinho is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 04:01 AM
  #60
jaco
Registered User
 
jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Italy
Posts: 360
vCash: 500
From the standpoint of a mere hockey-fan it looks easy: The more KHL expands into western Europe, the more I will have the opportunity to see good hockey live, and not only via streaming. So actually I can't wait for Helvetics to join and am sorry that Milan won't make it.

And as far as the impact on domestic leagues goes, I cannot see the negativity of having a KHL club in your country, the roster of which will (hopefully) become the main target of the young players (because of better money and higher play level) instead of a NHL team's roster.

jaco is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 05:32 AM
  #61
Latgale_fan
Registered User
 
Latgale_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Riga
Country: Latvia
Posts: 964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorz View Post
There is a proverb in Czech which applies well to this: "Measure twice, cut once."
heh, in Latvia we have a similar proverb but it's ''measure nine times, cut once'' I guess we're even more cautious...

Latgale_fan is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 08:00 AM
  #62
ult
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 1,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by latgale_fan View Post
heh, in latvia we have a similar proverb but it's ''measure nine times, cut once'' I guess we're even more cautious...
"семь раз отмерь, один раз отрежь".

ult is online now  
Old
04-17-2012, 08:19 AM
  #63
zorz
Registered User
 
zorz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,908
vCash: 500
Latgale_fan, ult... so it looks like we are the least cautious of all

zorz is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 04:55 PM
  #64
VladNYC*
 
VladNYC*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 6,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaco View Post
From the standpoint of a mere hockey-fan it looks easy: The more KHL expands into western Europe, the more I will have the opportunity to see good hockey live, and not only via streaming. So actually I can't wait for Helvetics to join and am sorry that Milan won't make it.

And as far as the impact on domestic leagues goes, I cannot see the negativity of having a KHL club in your country, the roster of which will (hopefully) become the main target of the young players (because of better money and higher play level) instead of a NHL team's roster.
This is pretty much spot on.

I don't get this whole domestic league issue. Would you rather have your domestic league be the 4th, 5th, 6th best league in Europe or the equivalent of the AHL to the Best league in Europe?

VladNYC* is offline  
Old
04-18-2012, 12:04 PM
  #65
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,735
vCash: 500
J17 Vs Proclamation

you said this
Quote:
The KHL doesn't really care how development goes in many European nations. It cares about having a strong domestic league and about rivalling the NHL.
there is statement of Medvedev, KHL boss
Quote:
В следующем году мы планируем пригласить все детские команды зарубежных клубов, играющих в КХЛ, а также ребят из клубов Швеции и Финляндии, - пообещал Александр Медведев.
link

it is russian tourney for 11 yo kids. He said KHL wants to invite all non-russian KHL teams and clubs from Sweden, Finland as well. Is it bad idea according to your point of view? Yes, russians want their children´s clubs to play against finns, swedes as much games as possible. Why? Because Finns, Swedes are good, maybe better. But this international matches helps not only Russians, but Finns, Swedes, Latvians (this year Dinamo Riga 2011 plays here), Slovaks, Czechs etc. I like idea and I dont case what KHL wants to achieve by organising the tourney.

vorky is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 10:09 AM
  #66
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,735
vCash: 500
Newcomer of VHL, Kuban Krasnodar, annouced that club will try to join KHL in 2014. Kransodar and Sochi are located at the same region. Can Kuban relocate to Sochi Olympic arena? Just my idea

http://rsport.ru/hockey/20120419/592482995.html

vorky is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 10:17 AM
  #67
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,785
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Newcomer of VHL, Kuban Krasnodar, annouced that club will try to join KHL in 2014. Kransodar and Sochi are located at the same region. Can Kuban relocate to Sochi Olympic arena? Just my idea

http://rsport.ru/hockey/20120419/592482995.html
Why oh why, there's no need of relocations in Russian hockey. Place in the league doesn't need to be bought, so making a new club is much easier.

ozo is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 10:34 AM
  #68
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,735
vCash: 500
ok, I see you, I just dont understand this statement. Does Krasnodar have modern arena above 10 000? I dont think so, maybe little arena from Sochi will be moved here. Why they decided for Krasnodar as KHL club and not Sochi, where better arena is? Or Sochi and Krasnodar will be in KHL?

vorky is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 10:40 AM
  #69
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,785
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
ok, I see you, I just dont understand this statement. Does Krasnodar have modern arena above 10 000? I dont think so, maybe little arena from Sochi will be moved here. Why they decided for Krasnodar as KHL club and not Sochi, where better arena is? Or Sochi and Krasnodar will be in KHL?
They don't even have a VHL level infrastructure, yet it didn't stop them from applying for a place there. It's Russia, anything can happen.

ozo is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 11:08 AM
  #70
zorz
Registered User
 
zorz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
They don't even have a VHL level infrastructure, yet it didn't stop them from applying for a place there. It's Russia, anything can happen.
This. These expansion rumours are starting to be ridiculous. It looks like they want to have about 50 Russian teams and 100 in total when it's all done.

zorz is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 11:25 AM
  #71
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,785
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorz View Post
These expansion rumours are starting to be ridiculous.
The funniest thing there always is a quote from an involved person, who states that process is complete - team has already joined and KHL has a new team, but only the next day these quotes are denied as ridiculous by a club's spokepersons. Pori, Leipzig, Karlovy Vari, Cologne and now Milan. Budivelnik Kiev already managed to participate in the draft and still team managed to not join.

I'm all pro expansion, but even watching from sidelines it's a bit embarrassing as some you guys jump at these half-hearted lazy journalism rumours. We should be way more cautious, even Prague and Bratislava hasn't joined yet, but Medvedev already talks about Pacific Ocean division as a fact.

ozo is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 11:30 AM
  #72
zorz
Registered User
 
zorz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
The funniest thing there always is a quote from an involved person, who states that process is complete - team has already joined and KHL has a new team, but only the next day these quotes are denied as ridiculous by a club's spokepersons. Pori, Leipzig, Karlovy Vari, Cologne and now Milan. Budivelnik Kiev already managed to participate in the draft and still team managed to not join.

I'm all pro expansion, but even watching from sidelines it's a bit embarrassing as some you guys jump at these half-hearted lazy journalism rumours. We should be way more cautious, even Prague and Bratislava hasn't joined yet, but Medvedev already talks about Pacific Ocean division as a fact.
Yeah, journalists suck badly at this too. Personally I think many of the false news related to HC Lev during past couple of years were also caused by the jurnalists unable to translate things properly...

zorz is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 11:52 AM
  #73
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Karlovy Vari

it's a bit embarrassing as some you guys jump at these half-hearted lazy journalism rumours.
you are right, but these rumours are always interesting. Do you know where creators of HC LEV Poprad live? ...Karlovy Vary.

today´s statement was said by Krasnodar Krai minister, so possible KHL team from this region does not have to be based in Krasnodar, but in Sochi as well. We will see, but still, info is interesting.

vorky is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 12:15 PM
  #74
Theokritos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorz View Post
This. These expansion rumours are starting to be ridiculous. It looks like they want to have about 50 Russian teams and 100 in total when it's all done.
Dilusion of the KHL talent level is in full flight. Soon the older fans are going to mourn after the good old days of the "Original 24" Era. What's next, a Disney Land Park in Sochi and the Mighty Ducks of Sochi in the KHL?

Theokritos is offline  
Old
04-20-2012, 07:00 AM
  #75
starttomelt
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 31
vCash: 500
I really don't see a Swiss team joining the KHL in the next 10 years (and I'm talking about established teams - not Huttwil. Huttwil is a... well... different story). The domestic league is financally stable and has okay-ish attendance. But more so: Swiss teams have absolutely no history with Russian teams and I don't see Swiss hockey fans being interested about games against Russian teams. There's just no tradition.

Sure, for die hard hockey fans it's probably interesting to see some of the best hockey players of the world (not playing in the NHL) but the casual SC Bern fan wants to see games against Zurich or Fribourg - and not against AK Bars Kazan (We don't have to discuss that Bars Kazan is "better" than Fribourg - you just can't "create" rivalries out of thin air like they sometimes do in North America).

Sure, there's always the possibility with Huttwil (The "Helvetics") but you know the story behind this, right? There's a rich dude living in Huttwil whose team couldn't get promoted to the 2nd tier (because of a stupid formal mistake) and he was so angry about it he simply disbanded the team (first he threatened joining the KHL) and I simply can't imagine anyone caring for a possible KHL team is Switzerland when you have a full fuctioning domestic league with 70 year old rivalries against a team with no history in a non-hockey market.

starttomelt is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.